Madd BX vs donek incline

[jtdds]

Earlier this year, 'Shred Gruumer', did a test ride and posted pictures of him 'shredding groom' on a Madd BX board--(search this sight for Madd Bx and you can view his shots). He reported on the boards great edge hold on groom, in alpine mode. Some others wanted a broader review on the board ridden like current boardercross-- lower angles, soft boots, varied conditions. Many expressed an interest in further testing and I wondered if anyone had anything else to share about it???

For any of you who have ridden the carving hybrids, or BX boards-- volkl cross, plamer channel, donek incline I am interested in hearing which you feel rides with the best DAMPENING in rutty clumpy wet snow.

My guess is if someone makes a torsionally stiff, 24-26 waist width, 10-12 radius that has dampening charcteristics, it is a prettty special board. jt

[Bordy]

Palmer plates dampen up all the boards you mentioned quite a bit. I think the Madd is pretty damp but the palmer is a on par with it for dampning but not edge hold. The incline hilds a great edge but with out the palmer plate is very livly with a great shape, I think the Prior 4wd takes the cake with Hardboots. and if you like the feed back the Donek works good with hard boots and o-kay with high angle soft boots. the Volkl Cross and Palmer are soft boot ready but lack under a hardboot set up the Madd blends both worlds well and needs some heavy input under soft boots but its worth it.

I would consider weather you are using lifters(like the palmer plates) and foot size when selecting these sticks. Think about what will fit your size, foot size and stance best!

As far as wet heavy snow goes it does a lot of damping for you!

At some point soon I'll have some reveiws up at hardbooter.com.

[jtdds]

bordy,
I do use Palmer risers-- the max size when I ride soft. Tell me more about your comparisons

[sierra]

Hey Bordy:

I too would also be interested in your feedback on this topic. I'm interested in comparisons of Madd BX vs. Prior 4WD vs. Donek Incline (I decided to purchase a Coiler AM on the very day that production was sold out - arrghh!, so Coiler is probably out for next year). I'm currently on a Nitro Shogun (pretty stout) for soft riding - looking for the next step up. I'll probably ride it with both hard and soft boots. Many thanks in advance.

[~tb]

I don't normally ride any of the boards in question. I normally just stick to dedicated hard boot stuff, but I find it interesting that this thread is comparing the donek incline against the prior 4wd and coiler AM. Wouldnt it make more sense to compare and contrast them to the Donek Axis? Just curious.

-Todd

PS: I have ridden all of the boards in question, I just spend too much time dedicated to groomers to have a valuable opinion on this topic.

[sierra]

In my post I actually meant to say Donek Axis. My bad! Good eye there, Todd...

[Jack Michaud]

Although... the shape of the Madd BX is closer to an Incline than an Axis.

[~tb]

That is very true jack . . . But shape is probably the least important factor here in my honest opinoin. If you want to say that the waist width of the incline is closer to that of the madd BX (correction to my earlier post, I have not ridden the madd BX) then you might have a valid point. . .

maybe we should include both the axis and incline to this comparison, but then don't leave out prior AMF!

[jtdds]

Only been on the Cross and the Channel-- but I suspect ALL the hybrid /bx boards carve OK--better than average edgehold. I am more critical on how these boards handle NON groom/carve situations.

In fact, take this situation: 3pm, 38 degrees, 6 inches fell the night before over groomed blues and blacks. You been searching fo freshies the whole day and now you're shot. Top of the mountain, everything is ski- out and clumpy. Your buddy challenges you to a beer for the first one down. You have no access to your hardboots, only your soft. You need a board that you can open up on in steep clumpy conditions. You get to ride anything... what do you reach for to get you down first?

[Jack Michaud]

I think the waist width of the Madd BX is closer to the Incline.

[jtdds]

OK-- I see the alpine/ hardboot stuff starting creep in... I understand the need because it is what I do best myself-- hardboots rule. What I don't know much about is all-mountain/go anywhere soft boot boards that can carve well.

Todd, you have ridden alot of boards in the bx class. What are your thoughts on them-- and did you ride them with soft or hard set ups?

[~tb]

I have ridden a handful of BX boards, but normally with plates. Hence my lack of opinion on this thread. My opinion on them is that they are great for their purpose, but their purpose doesnt entertain me. . . so I ride dedicated race/carve gear. As soon as I Get into the conditions you describe. . . I head for the bar!

but based on the focus question . . . . I would personally grab the Rad Air Tanker 2000. But that wasn't in the list.

-Todd

[Skully]

I agree with Todd. If you're looking into all-mountain soft boards, don't foget the Rad Airs. Tankers are great, and the Lamm Project LSD is great too...

FWIW, I know that Sean has made some non-standard Inclines. I saw Greenwood riding one in a BX at Bachelor last season. It would be interesting to talk with Sean about that if you are interested. Given overall reputation for quality, reliability and product support, I'd be way more inclined to go with an Incline (hah, a pun of sorts) than a ddaM.

Once Sean has built a custom shape/flex/dampness board, he usually doesn't charge a fortune to make a repeat of that board. As I recall, Greenwood said the Incline he was riding was one that Sean had originally built for himself, then gave it to Greeny.

BTW, I've never ridden any of these board (except an Axis) so I'm not one to comment on ride quality, etc.

[Galen]

Originally posted by Skully
I agree with Todd. If you're looking into all-mountain soft boards, don't foget the Rad Airs. Tankers are great, and the Lamm Project LSD is great too...

.....if you can find one! I ordered a 157 Reto Lamm from St. Moritz Ski & Sport in early Jan. They said they tried to send it out in mid Feb, but got my address wrong. I called them almost every week since then and never got any answer except" I"ll ask so and so and get back to you", which they never did. Yesterday I finally had to call them and ask to have my deposit refunded after they told me they never actually got the 157's in. Does anyone know who has them?(besides St. Moritz Ski & Sport) . I'd love to get one.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Search for Rad-Air here, there are a couple of guys who can get them for you.

[Scorpio]

RJ-PS can probably get one for you. He's working on getting one for me. Just waiting to hear back from him. Search for his name under members.

[jtdds]

More about Rad Airs... what makes them special-- what model suggested??

[Scorpio]

A lot of the guys who ride them seem to love the tankers. Has a reputation to be a good all mountain carver, wide enough for off-piste aka powder/bumps but can still hold an edge on groomers. Can be ridden w/ soft or hard boots. Check out the rad-air website for specs on the boards. PSR on Freecarve.com is a proponent of them and raves about his tanker. Check out the 'boards' section. He gives his opinion on the LSD's as well.

[Mark.Andersen]

I like my Rad Air 164 LSD, but I ride it with plates. stiff with a 10.5m sidecut is what makes it "carvy". 25.5cm waist is plenty wide for normal softboots, especially with lifters. I thought the tanker (192 in my case) rode like I was captaining an aircraft carrier... Think way ahead of your turns.

The Prior MFR is a pretty decent carver as well if you don't mind shorter sidecuts (9ish). I rode mine with Flows and Catek freerides before going to hardboots all the time. I got plenty of comments from hardbooters regarding my turns... It's also a better all mtn board than the LSD as it's a bit more damp and not as stiff.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Mark.Andersen
I thought the tanker (192 in my case) rode like I was captaining an aircraft carrier... Think way ahead of your turns.

I wouldn't describe my 200 like that. It's not going to cross the fall line like a wasp-waisted slalom board, but it's amazingly nimble for it's size. Carves like a sumbitch, too.

[sic t 2]

[QUOTEYour buddy challenges you to a beer for the first one down. You have no access to your hardboots, only your soft. You need a board that you can open up on in steep clumpy conditions. You get to ride anything... what do you reach for to get you down first? [/b][/quote]

I ride a Donek 160 incline and a Burton Balance 157 (pipe board) when in soft boots (identical bindings, identical stance). When put in context of your question its not even remotely close. The Burton will eat the Donek for lunch in those conditions. And I mean for lunch! The Donek is a tad better on groomers (with softies) but then again if you start dragging body parts the Balance catches a second wind and is better at really extreme angles of inclination. And believe me I know, my 23 year old son also rides the identical Balance and if I am not on mine,,, well, things get painfully obvious real fast. Again, only for extreme terrain type of riding at speed.

Donek: tons of fun really. A bit, just a bit clunky to maneuver (which is your ticket to the hospital if you are playing with unforgiving obstacles). So "slightly" becomes "a lot" when put in context of thick trees, big rocks and snowmaking pipes at speed.

Compare the shapes

sic

[bobdea]

like the tanker and a couple others
on the groom are easy to handle if you have ridden some boards with a wider sidecut and moderate length on plates

think about it this way your 200 if you shortend the nose and cut off the tail would be a 175 or so
now in the bumps a 200 is still gonna be scary but thats about it.
I have put in enough time on the long softie stuff they are fun if you are up to it but they are like the BX rides require allot of input.

The Balance was one of the better boards burton ever made but it had super deep sidecut 8 meters or something so yeah it will turn a hell of allot faster than a incline
I have been on both and I would say the incline is far better at speed
both boards are pretty firm in flex and are great examples of shape matched to the proper flex at work for you.
neither board I ever thought ohh I wish part X were stiffer or softer.

[sierra]

Hey Todd:

You say that you don't have a valuable opinion on the topic but having ridden the above mentioned boards, I'd be interested in your take on how they stack up against each other on just the groomers as well...

[lonerider]

Originally posted by sic t 2

I ride a Donek 160 incline and a Burton Balance 157 (pipe board) when in soft boots (identical bindings, identical stance). When put in context of your question its not even remotely close. The Burton will eat the Donek for lunch in those conditions. And I mean for lunch! The Donek is a tad better on groomers (with softies) but then again if you start dragging body parts the Balance catches a second wind and is better at really extreme angles of inclination. And believe me I know, my 23 year old son also rides the identical Balance and if I am not on mine,,, well, things get painfully obvious real fast. Again, only for extreme terrain type of riding at speed.

Donek: tons of fun really. A bit, just a bit clunky to maneuver (which is your ticket to the hospital if you are playing with unforgiving obstacles). So "slightly" becomes "a lot" when put in context of thick trees, big rocks and snowmaking pipes at speed.

sic [/b]

I agree that the Donek Incline AND the Donek Axis are not ideal for powder, tracked powder, or any type of sloppy conditions. I mean to say that they are designed to be awesome carvers on groomed stuff that can be "taken" off-piste, but that's just not their specialty. I have the Incline and I too find it a workout and clunky to manuever on non-groomed snow and in trees (150 lbs person riding a 155 Incline, I'm told the Wide is much better in powder and heavier people don't seem to notice what I notice). Actually I think I had an easier time with the Prior 4WD 174 than my Incline 155! (better floatation, not much harder to manuever)

The Donek Phoenix I just recently demo'd is MUCH better in sloppy conditions like you mentioned and lot of fun... although I'm not sure it would be the best choice for bombing down as it still have Donek's signature liveliness (which isn't the best for sloppy conditions) and it gives up a little bit of the edgehold and stability of the Incline (I'm strongly considering replacing my Incline with it though).

So the end of day, tired, sloppy conditions you mentioned... I would suggest maybe a Prior MFR, longer sidecut and less stiffness. I rode a 158 in the powder, bumps, trees and it is silky smooth coming down the hill, even over those little bumps that come from packed powder chunks. The edgehold isn't as good as an Incline, but it requires so much less effort and is so much more damp... you will get down the hill faster as you legs won't be as drained and you won't eat it if you lose control.

The Madd BX actually sounds really good for this because it is medium stiffness and is very damp (whereas the Donek as stiff and lively). The Salomon Definition is also great for blasting through crud - we like to drop this little cliff (about 10-15 feet) at Kirkwood on the backside and my friend riding his Burton Dragon (pipe board) tends to get knocked around in the the mashed potato-ey crud on the run out, but when I used to do it with my Salomon Definition... I always never noticed it... I noticed it much more with my Neversummer Evo (another brand with extremely damp boards) and Donek Incline.

[jason_watkins]

Ironicly enough my buddy rides a balance (159 I believe) from about that model year (same base as your pic, slightly different top sheet coloring), and I used to ride a donek wide 161 all the time.

As for stability at speed, there's no contest at all, definately the donek. The burton rode very loose. I suppose that might be a taste issue, but I'd much rather the board that will track flat and punch through chop (or be damp enough to soak it up). The balance danced base flat, let alone on chop.

The balance definately was quick to maneuver at slow speeds on steeper slopes. Very easy feeling compared to the donek.

But once you give the donek some speed it comes alive. Plenty of snap out of the tail to pop into the next turn, making it very maneuverible once you start truckin' a bit. Plus with the gobs of edge hold you can actually commit without being worried about the board getting away from you.

[Skully]

Harbooter.com has a few tankers in varying lengths. I beleive I bought the last LSD Lamm, but I think they also have a LSD Sappa available. Don't know much about the Sappa, and I didn't get much time in on the Lamm, but it was mucho fun for the few turns I got in on it...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Hmm, they don't list the LSDs... BTW to find the Rad-Air stuff there, you have to click on "powder days" not "boards".

[Skully]

Yup, they don't have all of their inventory shown on the "Powder Days" link. Call or e-mail them, and they'll let you know what they have.

And another cool thing about the Lamm:



Jet Packs!

[sfleck]

After riding this board for a few weeks in both plates and softies, I can tell you this, if you want to go stupid fast, this is the board for you. It holds its edge in ice just like the rest of the Madds, but is stable and damp enough to handle the ruts, bumps,and air time of a boardercross course. I was real interested to see how this board would perform with softies, being made by a company who specializes in alpine boards. I road it with a pair of catek freerides, and have to say that it was amazing. I have never been able to rip heelside turns like that on my other boards. and it just plows right through crud like its not even there. It can feel a bit sluggish at low speeds, but in my opinion it is designed to be going fast, so I don't really see it as a downfall. The fact that it is both stiff and damp makes landing those awkward boarder-x jumps so much easier. However, if you are looking for a board that you can just sit back, relax, and let it run go elsewhere. This thing is an animal, and it will take whatever you can put into it, but if you are not aggresive, it will feel like it is controlling you. Overall impression, great board. Not something I would ride every day, but I would, and have ridden it though the nastiest of courses in both plates and softies, and never once did I wish I was on something else. hope this helps anyone who was interested, and feel free to ask me any more specific questions.
Steve