OT: Toyota Prius---Driving Like a Fogey

**SWriverstone** · October 5th, 2005

Since Holly's moving to NJ and will be driving back down here a lot, she traded in her gas-guzzling Takoma pickup for a Toyota Prius. I checked it out tonight for the first time---that car is slick!

She got all the bells and whistles, including the built-in GPS. The computer screen displays all kinds of dangerous-looking data on the electric-fuel hybrid efficiency---such as a bar graph that displays a running 30-minute average for fuel efficiency and battery recharge levels. It's a bit mesmerizing---and therefore a bit dangerous! I'd find myself staring at it as I drifted across the yellow line...LOL

The upshot is that after driving it around for a day, Holly and I were competing to see who could get the most kickin' efficiency. This was a blast, but it inevitably requires driving like a 90-year-old.

Acceleration kills fuel efficiency, so I'm certain we were irritating the heck out of drivers behind us as we c-r-a-w-l-e-d up to speed, trying to keep that "Mpg-O-Meter" up above 50 or 60mpg.

The bottom line? Average fuel efficiency so far is over 50mpg---not bad, and beats the snot out of the Takoma! (Plus we have that environmental "feel good glow" about using half the gas...)

Anyone else have a hybrid?
Scott

**astrokel** · October 5th, 2005

I don't have one but I was in a small town in western NY and there was a Prius parked outside. I was looking forward to seeing how it moved when the owner came out and got in to take off so I waited with baited breathe to hear what the engine sounded like... Well all I heard was a click and the thing moved out silently with only the sound of the wheels on the ground. It was the coolest thing and made me want one. I didn't realize you could choose to use just the electrics. What a stealth vehicle. You could sneak out without anyone around noticing! Congrats on the purchase Scott!

**kjl** · October 5th, 2005

Yeah, I test drove one a while back (unfortunately, no AWD

) and the dealer told us not to worry that the engine had stalled when we stopped for lights - the engine just shuts itself off and turns back on when you need the extra power. Very cool.

**ak_rider** · October 5th, 2005

Lexus 400h. AWD snow-worthy hybrid. Very roomy, nav, disc changer, all the bells and whistles and it averages 38mpg, that's without driving like the afore mentioned 90 yr old, but i think we've all been there. It's just too fun to drive w/out using any gas. It has plenty of acceleration and will have no prob climbing the access rds to various ski areas. I also dig the super stealth mode. Big loud tailpipes are out, moving w/out making a sound is soo in

**BobD** · October 5th, 2005

Just time. Many years ago when I was out of work and funds were low, I practiced efficient driving. Up'd my mpg by 50 to 60 %. But being unemployed, I had all the time in the world. Driving in socks helps to be delicate with the gas pedal.

BobD

Randy S. · October 5th, 2005

The new Lexus 400h looks sweet. They sort of split the difference between giving it better mileage and giving it more performance. It gets better mileage than the gas version and it has more power too. Me? I'm waiting on the Acura MDX Hybrid in a year or two. I've only got 112K on my 01 MDX so I figure its got another 100K in it. Except I only get 21mpg on the fwy and 16-18 around town.

**Steve Dold** · October 5th, 2005

Scott, check the actual milage vs. what the computer says. We got a Prius at work a couple of years ago and I took it on a 600 mile round trip to Southern CA (300 miles each way, no mountain passes or anything, all flat, 75 mph). I calculated the mileage both ways at 23 mpg, yet the computer said I was getting around 40-45 mpg. The car was fun to drive but only 3 mpg better than my Tacoma

In the City the Prius can probably do a lot better.

Interestingly, I find that when I listen to jazz music, I drive slower and use less fuel. I don't know why.

**nekdut** · October 5th, 2005

Regarding the 400h, really sweet ride, but $50k?! I'll spend the $27k difference on gas. I got a new Legacy GT recently for $23k. AWD, 250hp, 0-60 in 5.2 sec. I do only get 22-25mpg, but man what a hell of a ride, and cheap to boot!

I am on assignment at Toyota so it is hybrid central for me. Priuses, highlanders, rx400h's, new IS and camry hybrids too. I know its the wave of the future, but they need to come out with full power (250hp or more and AWD), and good gas mileage before I will get one. I think a lot of others agree with me, even though the prius gets 50+ MPG, it only has about 100hp, and no 4wd/AWD option.

**astrokel** · October 6th, 2005

Wow 4 wheel drive on an electric vehicle. The perfect snow conveyance with the high torque and straight as an arrow power curve...

**jdgang** · October 6th, 2005

sry to jack the thread but if holly needs any riding buddies me and a friend of mine ride vernon nearly every weekend. This year might be a little different he has a young baby and I have one on the way (march 16th) but I have convinced my wife that I need to snowboard for my sanity

**skategoat** · October 6th, 2005

Don't understand hybrids. You can never recoup the extra cost. I guess it's a statement vehicle like SUVs.

If the idea is to reduce our energy footprint, you're best off buying a used Civic, Echo or Tercel.

**Holly** · October 6th, 2005

Originally Posted by skategoat

You can never recoup the extra cost.

Granted... I have not gone through a whole tank of gas yet to figure out the real MPG, but I did do the math and I think I should come out ahead. In addition to the $2000 credit I can take on my 2005 federal taxes, this is what I came up with:

Ave Monthly Miles...............2500 (believe it or not, I've been averaging 30,000/yr over the past 3 yrs

)
Ave Cost Per Gallon of Gas.....$3.00

........Ave MPG.|.Gal.Gas......|.Fuel Cost/Month..|..Savings/Month..|..Savings/Year..|..Savings over 4 yrs
..................Per Month
Prius...40........62.5...........$187.50.......... ...$253.68...........$3,044.12........$12,176.47
Tacoma..17........147.0588235....$441.18

Originally Posted by skategoat

If the idea is to reduce our energy footprint, you're best off buying a used Civic, Echo or Tercel.

Now I do agree that it would have been better to get a used vehicle from an environmental standpoint. Buying something new means one more nonbiodegradeable thing being produced that will ultimately end up in a landfill (less whatever might be harvested from it to be recycled).

**Derf** · October 6th, 2005

You don't drive a hybrid car because of the money. It is a common mistake people make, comparing regular cars and hybrid cars and finding out they can't get back the extra spending. You drive a hybrid car because it pollutes less. Clean air has a price. Some companies keep polluting becuase it is too expensive to reduce the pollution while others will pollute less because they want to, even if it costs more.

I have heard it costs more to build the Prius than the amount they sell the car for. Can anyone confirm?

Gotta go back to work for now...

**philfell** · October 8th, 2005

My Saturn consistantly got between 35 and 40 miles to the gallon, and it wasn't a hybrib. A TDI Jetta is supposed to get 50mpg. Why do most hybrids use more gas than many non-hybrids?

**nekdut** · October 8th, 2005

Originally Posted by Derf

I have heard it costs more to build the Prius than the amount they sell the car for. Can anyone confirm?

Derf,

Close, but not entirely true. At invoice price ($20-21k) Toyota is pretty much breaking even on Priuses.

**big mario** · October 8th, 2005

My wife's tdi bug gets 43+ combined driving, but under 40 if i'm driving

. It is a 5 speed, and it is fast and a blast to drive. Oh, by the way Scott and Holly, it is in your best interest to get in touch with your inner nascar driver while cruising around

in north jersey. Those people are nuts!!! I know because I used to be one of them, but i'm feeling much better now.
winter storm warning for the mtn's of co!!
mario

**mikemcse** · October 10th, 2005

I am a bit skeptical of the new hybrids. I had a 1988 Toyota tercel DX 4spd hatchback and consistently got over 40 MPG on the highway and at times over 50 depending on conditions. Granted the car was a POS box car and had the worst brakes imagineable but it did the job. I had a 3 cyl Justy that was similar. I am sure there are many others here with similar stories.

18 years years later and with modern technology and engineering inventions the numbers have not improved for the most part. Just my 2 cents.

let the flames begin.

**Derf** · October 10th, 2005

Originally Posted by mikemcse

I am a bit skeptical of the new hybrids. I had a 1988 Toyota tercel DX 4spd hatchback and consistently got over 40 MPG on the highway and at times over 50 depending on conditions. Granted the car was a POS box car and had the worst brakes imagineable but it did the job. I had a 3 cyl Justy that was similar. I am sure there are many others here with similar stories.

18 years years later and with modern technology and engineering inventions the numbers have not improved for the most part. Just my 2 cents.

let the flames begin.

There are many reasons why numbers have not improved over time:

1) Cars are bigger and heavier. Sub-compact cars (Nissan Micra, Ford Festiva, Subaru Justy, Toyota Tercel just to name a few) used to weight around 800 kg and were small. Now they are around 1000 kg and are as big as old compact cars. Compact cars were 1000 kg and are now 1200 kg and are big like older intermediate cars. And so on. As an example, a modern Toyota Echo (replaced Tercel) is as big as an older Corolla, a modern Honda Civic is as big as an older Accord. Engines have grown up in size and power. An old Tercel was 80 hp, a new Echo is 108 hp. An old accord was 110 hp, a new one is between 160 hp and 240 hp. People want bigger cars and more powerful cars, as long as they don't drink more gas.
2) People want powerful cars here. The same Echo and Corolla are sold in Europe and in Australia. Here, the only engine for the Echo is 1,5L, over there the base engine is 1,2L and 1,5L is the optional performance engine. The Corolla has a 1,8L engine and in the other places, I think it is 1,5L or 1,6L that is standard.
3) Cars are now safer, requiring strudier frames and bodies, which weight more.
4) There are more gadgets in cars now. It is almost impossible to get a car with manual windows or locks. Also AC is much more common. All these gadgets add weight and add to the consumption.
5) Cars are quieter because of better sound insulation. This insulation adds weight.

In essence, the technology is there but the will is not. Companies don't sell really fuel efficient cars here because it won't sell well enough. It will feel underpowered to modern standards, will be noisier when driving and won't have all the gadgets people want.

**Jack Michaud** · October 10th, 2005

Originally Posted by Derf

2) People want powerful cars here.

People want powerful cars everywhere - it's just that in Europe, gas costs what, $7 a gallon? So over there, there is a large market for fuel efficient cars. If tomorrow the EU lifted all the gas taxes and prices fell to our levels (or our former average of $1.50/gal), auto dealers would instantly sell out of their sports car and SUV inventories.

Now that gas here has broken the $3/gal line, SUV sales are down like 40%, and hybrids are up.

**Allee** · October 10th, 2005

I'm always amazed at some of the choices people make with regards to cars. For sure, there are a number of people who genuinely need and use a Ram truck, but for every one of those there's some poser with more money than sense who will never drive it off the tarmac. Or he buys it for his wife to shuttle the kids to school and back because it's big and safe if she gets into an accident (never mind that the other person gets pulverised). Said truck has feet of suspension travel, but she will STOP for rail crossings and speed humps.

Derf has a point with the power thing ... it certainly seems to be ingrained into the North American psyche. In redneck central Calgary, the oil execs and wannabe cowboys wouldn't be seen dead in anything but a true blue truck, and the bigger the better. Being from NZ, I'm used to the Echo being a 1.3, and a Corolla being a 1.3 or 1.6 litre. And Hummers are so rare that we import them for a car show, just so people can stare.

Buying any car is a tradeoff against what you do, what you like and what you can afford. I suspect that now that the gas prices have started to bite, a lot more people will be making wiser tradeoffs. Certainly at home, with gas at $1.50 per litre, a lot of my friends already have ...

I think Holly made a great tradeoff, although I'm sure there will be times when you're jamming gear in the back of it, and cursing that you no longer have a truck!

**Gecko** · October 10th, 2005

across country this year, towing motorcycles/building supplies and snowboarding in New England. I looked at the Escape Hybrid and the Liberty CRD the CRD has a bigger range...still for me living in Japan for the last 3 years the Liberty feels HUGE...but a mini compact here runs a .6L engine,,,they even make 6 person minivans that small. BTW gas is 136Yen per Liter, diesel 101Yen per Liter.

**C5 Golfer** · October 10th, 2005

Originally Posted by Jack Michaud

People want powerful cars everywhere - it's just that in Europe, gas costs what, $7 a gallon? So over there, there is a large market for fuel efficient cars. If tomorrow the EU lifted all the gas taxes and prices fell to our levels (or our former average of $1.50/gal), auto dealers would instantly sell out of their sports car and SUV inventories.

Now that gas here has broken the $3/gal line, SUV sales are down like 40%, and hybrids are up.

Isn't odd that most high end gas guzzling cars come from Europe? Maybach, Mercedes, Rolls, BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Jaguar, Aston, Lamborgini, Porsche. Weird, must be some money over there somewhere that could care less about $7 gal. Most of the above build SUVs even tho they are built in USA.

**Gecko** · October 10th, 2005

europeans are also the ones who invented/created/perfected the Common Rail Diesel engine which is infinatly more efficient than a gas engine it's same size, besides that fact that it will run most forms of Biodiesel

**pm_wizard** · October 11th, 2005

Back on sound (or lack of sound) with hybrids. The Feds are getting concerned about the possibility of pedestrians getting hit by the car they didn't hear coming, and are considering requiring a minimum sound level. To extend the idea, you would be able to choose the sound characteristics of your hybrid much like downloading phone ring tones. Hmmm, a hybrid that sounds like a 68 hemi or a Ferrari... Maybe you want that perfect dry clutch Ducati!

John

**Jack Michaud** · October 11th, 2005

Sweet. My hybrid is going to sound like an Imperial Tie Fighter.

Allee... let me get this straight... are you saying North Americans are genetically predisposed to be careless about their environment?

**Derf** · October 11th, 2005

Originally Posted by pm_wizard

Back on sound (or lack of sound) with hybrids. The Feds are getting concerned about the possibility of pedestrians getting hit by the car they didn't hear coming, and are considering requiring a minimum sound level. To extend the idea, you would be able to choose the sound characteristics of your hybrid much like downloading phone ring tones. Hmmm, a hybrid that sounds like a 68 hemi or a Ferrari... Maybe you want that perfect dry clutch Ducati!

John

I am a cyclist and I do a lot of commuting. Even in electric mode, you hear an hybrid coming, even with the wind in my ears, because of the noise of the tires. I think most of the noise modern cars produce comes from the tires. To not hear an hybrid coming, it has to go around 10-15 km/h and at that speed, there is an impact, but not that big.

**Justin A.** · October 11th, 2005

Im with Darth Jack, except I want my horn to sound like R2-D2

I notice the "there's no replacement for displacement" thing every day. At m college, every time a small car or truck takes off fast out of the lot, at least one person says "woah man, take it easy on her, she's only a four/six".
________
Vaporizer Wiki

**pm_wizard** · October 11th, 2005

The concern is for pedestrians, who don't hear it coming creeping behind them through an intersection. But just think of the possibilities (replete with irony) of a lumpy big block idle as you nudge a pedestrian through the cross walk!

John

**Allee** · October 11th, 2005

Not at all ... maybe it's just that having had cheap gas for so long, a lot of North Americans (including Canadians) still regard it as a right. There's an awful lot of noise being made at present about how the Feds in Canada should scrap gas taxes to keep the prices down. Or, people could buy more fuel efficient vehicles and drive less, but that doesn't seem to be a very popular option.Seems like the Europeans "got smart" quite a while ago.

Like I said, choices have to be made. If you don't mind spending $100 a week to run your truck, good for you. A lot of people have better things to do with their $$.

We all have a responsibility to look after the environment, not just North Americans. Unfortunately, it's a hard sell message. I wonder what the world our kids grow up in will be like.

**C5 Golfer** · October 11th, 2005

Originally Posted by Jack Michaud

Sweet. My hybrid is going to sound like an Imperial Tie Fighter.

Allee... let me get this straight... are you saying North Americans are genetically predisposed to be careless about their environment?

Hmmmm.. I think I will opt for the M60 Abrams tank with a simulated howitser. The way some people drive here in the mornings is scary.

Thread: OT: Toyota Prius---Driving Like a Fogey

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

OT: Toyota Prius---Driving Like a Fogey

You don't need a hybrid

Recouping cost of hybrids

I plan on driving

And yet

Genetically predisposed?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions