Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Is this bad technique?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    88

    Is this bad technique?

    I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I want to hear it from the experts.

    Name:  HSBreck.jpg
Views: 905
Size:  47.8 KB

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Milky Way
    Posts
    1,310

    Question impossible to say IMMHO

    impossible to call good or bad as a still pic is not enough information to make a call...you are on the way to somewhere from somewhere and a video that shows a number of cycles would be needed to determine good from bad...and then again one persons good can be another persons bad looks good from here but then I am no expert, so I apologize for this response.
    but of course, I use the Pseudomorph Style of Snowboarding

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Vancouver BC
    Posts
    773
    Uhhhhhhhh- YES.
    A carver's haiku-

    My board's a scalpel,
    To carve deep ruts in the snow,
    Is my destiny.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Eindhoven, The Netherlands
    Posts
    178
    It's called making the best of a very awkward stance. He's at least trying to go deep, keeping shoulders level and turning shoulders into the turn.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Western Mass
    Posts
    1,473

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    4,662
    Quote Originally Posted by crucible View Post
    Uhhhhhhhh- YES.
    Hey Geo, he's on softies, I believe, and flattish stance. So, no, not bad.
    Again, what SBS said, hard to really judge on one photo.
    INSTRUCTION | CASI L2 - hard boots all the way! | Vancouver Carvers' Diaries 2013/14 | Items for sale

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Olympic Valley, CA
    Posts
    270
    Pretty impressive technique for Florida!!!


    Actually I suggest the "serving tray" idea. Think of holding a tray in both hands and imagine there's a cup or glass on the tray.....as you go int a turn you wiill have to tilt the tray to avod the cup or glass sliding off.

    In your photo you right hand would be more down towards the toe side edge of the board and your left would be out level with your shoulder. Hands infront of you so you always can see them.
    The smoother/quieter style I want to attain myself is more of reaching towards the board edge or toe of your boot than all the motion that your photo shows.....but if your having fun go with what works!
    Last edited by barryj; May 7th, 2012 at 08:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    110
    Friend of mine says that is the toilet position....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland.ME.USA
    Posts
    6,437
    IMO, softboot carving is very different from hardboot carving. Softbootsailer, jburrill, and Rob Stevens would be good resources for this.
    Last edited by Jack Michaud; May 9th, 2012 at 08:46 AM.
    new here? check out the Welcome Center and FAQs

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    88
    Anybody got some good softboot heelside pics? I managed to find this picture of one of my favorite riders Graham Watanabe (out front) and it looks close so I can't be too far off!

    Name:  GrahamWatanabeHS.jpg
Views: 631
Size:  56.5 KB

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    1,608
    I would just be careful with that foreward arm position. It would be especially vulnerable to injury while rotated with the thumb down.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    365
    Wouldn't say bad per se, seems like the rider is doing what he can given the stance available. I tend to ride my softboot setup with purely forward angles, allowing me to ride more forward facing.
    Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Portland.ME.USA
    Posts
    6,437
    Seth Wescott can't be wrong...

    Name:  seth2.jpg
Views: 604
Size:  68.2 KB

    I'd say just keep your back hand more in check.
    new here? check out the Welcome Center and FAQs

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Bend, OR
    Posts
    3,733
    I've got plenty of experience carving in softies, but my no means consider myself an expert. I'm gonna throw caution to the wind and open my pie-hole anyway.

    First off, I think one can tell quite a bit from ecshredder's photo. There's a trench, a pretty large-radius trench. It's headed more or less down the fall line. The pitch is moderate. I'm betting the rider is moving along at a pretty good clip based on the direction down the fall line and large-radius shape of the trench.

    The above is IMHO consistent with the body position. The lower body has nice angles and the board is well on edge. The upper body is piked forward - "broken at the waist" - which moves the rider's weight off the heel side edge and more into the midline of the board. This precludes a tight turn, and allows speed to build up.

    In Jack's post Seth has has back more or less perpendicular to the snow, which implies full pressure on the heel side edge. IMHO, this more so than the hand position is the key difference. Of course if the back is more vertical then the hands are going to be in a more neutral position as well. Seth's lower body position is similar to the thread-starting photo, the upper body position is going to allow for a tighter carve.

    Looking back at the BX photo... the piked upper body makes sense when the rider wants to be on the heel edge, ready to turn hard heel side, but at the moment is looking for speed. Pivot the upper body to a vertical position from there and the turn will tighten. Same applies to the rider in ecshredder's photo.

    So, is it bad technique? If you're looking to preserve speed while staying on a heel side edge, in preparation to tighten a heel side, I think its fine. If you're looking for C-shaped carves, similar to what you'd do on hard boots, then adjustments will be required.

    But hey that's just my opinion, and I may be wrong.

    FWIW: I have trouble carving C-shaped turns on a lot of softie boards, because they have too little effective edge, too soft in the nose, or some combination thereof. I recall demoing a Burton Custom X two springs ago and trying to rail on it, and remembering feeling like my upper body was way out of sorts, trying to keep myself from over-bending the nose. Probably weighed 185-190 at the time.

    Put me on a Coiler Softie or Donek Saber, and I've been told "you look like you're in hard boots". Angles around 24/15 in all cases. Its MUCH easier to maintain good form during a carve, on a board that has the right flex and edge length for the job. Better riders than me can make a nice C-shaped turn on a floppy jib stick at speed and look good doing it. I just don't have such a stick to practice on

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    88
    That was excellent Mike T, exactly the analysis I'm looking for. You even nailed my biggest issue which is not being able to drain off speed on heelside turns. Thanks for taking the time to help!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Milky Way
    Posts
    1,310

    a guess then...

    IMMHO
    well I guess you are coming out of the backside turn and just starting to release the edge...looks as if you could be doing large across the run turns at a good clip...the stance when it is duck or close to duck causes the back to be perpendicular to the fall line...99.99% of all soft booters ride that way...so really your position is dictated by your stance and you do it well sitting on the toilet frowned upon by perhaps some of the HB folks is simply mandated by the softbooters stance. I have seen some of your pictures before and I thought a short video... I think you have a great style and ability to enjoy yourself on any hill or run. I believe if you watch the best softbooter on the planet in slow motion go down the hill that they will at sometime be in the exact position which your picture shows...therefore this is why I would suggest a Video of at least a couple of consecutive turning cycles to allow your style to be fully seen and for whatever reason judged by others here...
    Last edited by softbootsailer; May 11th, 2012 at 07:28 AM.
    but of course, I use the Pseudomorph Style of Snowboarding

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    531
    here is a couple of pics of slopestar
    i don't know his exact stance but i have seen him carving regular down a black run do a 180 hop and continue carving goofy without missing a beat, he usually switches a few times during the same run




    I know I'm not an "awesome carver" but I feel "awesome" when I'm carving

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Smallwood, MD
    Posts
    850
    ec, may i ask about your height, weight and the board and the angles? also, the size of your boot? risers? just wondering.
    Davekempmeister

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    88
    I've seen a video of slopestar that was very impressive. Real smooth and symmetrical turns, not to mention the switch carves, wow!

    To davekempmeister: I am about 5'8", 150lb, and I ride a 163 wide with size 8 boots. I'm usually setup just forward of centered at 15f/18r with no risers. The board is a Nidecker Ultralight which is pretty soft in the nose with alot of taper. Looking forward to trying my new Kessler ride next season!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Vail, CO and Grand Junction, CO
    Posts
    1,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike T View Post
    The above is IMHO consistent with the body position. The lower body has nice angles and the board is well on edge. The upper body is piked forward - "broken at the waist" - which moves the rider's weight off the heel side edge and more into the midline of the board. This precludes a tight turn, and allows speed to build up.

    In Jack's post Seth has has back more or less perpendicular to the snow, which implies full pressure on the heel side edge. IMHO, this more so than the hand position is the key difference. Of course if the back is more vertical then the hands are going to be in a more neutral position as well. Seth's lower body position is similar to the thread-starting photo, the upper body position is going to allow for a tighter carve.

    Looking back at the BX photo... the piked upper body makes sense when the rider wants to be on the heel edge, ready to turn hard heel side, but at the moment is looking for speed. Pivot the upper body to a vertical position from there and the turn will tighten. Same applies to the rider in ecshredder's photo.

    So, is it bad technique? If you're looking to preserve speed while staying on a heel side edge, in preparation to tighten a heel side, I think its fine. If you're looking for C-shaped carves, similar to what you'd do on hard boots, then adjustments will be required.

    But hey that's just my opinion, and I may be wrong.

    FWIW: I have trouble carving C-shaped turns on a lot of softie boards, because they have too little effective edge, too soft in the nose, or some combination thereof. I recall demoing a Burton Custom X two springs ago and trying to rail on it, and remembering feeling like my upper body was way out of sorts, trying to keep myself from over-bending the nose. Probably weighed 185-190 at the time.
    Well, for what it is worth with my racing background with Coach Maccarron, my first reaction to the photo was "too far back above waist -- more forward with arms sticking out front (i.e. like that guy who said pretend to hold lunch tray)"... however, then did I realized he was on soft boots. That notion has a slight difference from hard booting... sooo, my first thing I was thinking was "hmm, a bit more less than toliet bowl and ahve a bit more of sumo wrestling stance" but that's because of my background from duck feet and moderately wide stance from the 90's. I've watched so many 90's snowboard video and have imitated the styling which was a success for me... but in 2000s, I've graduated to hard booting and then ... -ahem- skiing. So my soft booting is a bit stuck to the 90's era.

    Also, this is my opinion, per se -- I strongly believe the geometric side cut radius plays a huge role on how a turn is executed... I've a strong avid advocate for small side cut radius which translates to squirrely turns, which I like esp at high speed when quick response is necessary. For instance, I'm a fan of 159 Lib Tech Emma Peel which had 8m sidecut radius which is a huge blessing for me.

    So, esherder, just keep on dialing it in, and you'll "get" it eventually. Takes a while, too. And yes, I'm guilty of toliet bowl stance at times.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Vail, CO and Grand Junction, CO
    Posts
    1,895
    Quote Originally Posted by ecshredder View Post
    I'm pretty sure I know the answer but I want to hear it from the experts.

    Name:  HSBreck.jpg
Views: 905
Size:  47.8 KB
    Hey! Isn't that Lost Boy trail at Vail Game Creek bowl?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    88
    No its Breckenridge, but I'll post a vid or pic from Game Creek (the day before) when I get time. I love that run, constant pitch all the way down and nice and wide.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Smallwood, MD
    Posts
    850
    ec, first of all - I am no expert by any stretch. Rarely do I understand the technical dialogue that goes on here on BOL. When I look at your photo, I am thinking that if you had a Tanker (it all goes back to Tankers) with another 15-20cm, you could slow-milk that high speed heelside turn for a lot more. If hanging out like that is how you have fun (it is fun), the Tanker will let you hang out like that for longer = more fun.

    Tankers are lightweight and not at all as unwieldy as the length would suggest.
    Davekempmeister

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western Mass
    Posts
    1,055
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Michaud View Post
    Seth Wescott can't be wrong...

    Name:  seth2.jpg
Views: 604
Size:  68.2 KB
    Anyone know what board Seth is riding in that shot?
    "''planter ben red' can be put very simply into ''the board stopped freakin fast kinda on its own''--Bomber-member Pat

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    4,662
    Quote Originally Posted by scrapster View Post
    Anyone know what board Seth is riding in that shot?
    Looks like an earlier SG to me.
    INSTRUCTION | CASI L2 - hard boots all the way! | Vancouver Carvers' Diaries 2013/14 | Items for sale

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Maine/NH
    Posts
    655
    Anyone know what board Seth is riding in that shot?
    Quite possibly one of several T8 'powder' boards.

    As to the original question at hand, what you have there is hardly optimal.
    Consider the rather extreme articulation of the joints, compared to the relatively low degree of board tilt.
    Given the statement:

    my biggest issue which is not being able to drain off speed on heelside turns.
    It appears you have something of a net loss.

    Edge engagement angle influences board deflection, which then affects turn radius/shape.

    'Sitting' into the heelside generally creates a time delay in board response, and a shallower turn shape.
    So if you must sit into the heelside, at least tilt the board prior to doing so.

    Seth Wescott can't be wrong...
    Regardless of who is doing it, funky technique is still funky.
    If memory serves, that photo was part of a marketing shoot. If you have ever had the pleasure of performing for the camera, you know that exaggeration is part of 'selling' the shot.

    Generally speaking, Wescott is readily discernible while riding, as he does not resemble every other softbooter on the hill.

    More of a 'swooper', less so a 'pooper'.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Spanish Fork, Utah and Osburn, Idaho
    Posts
    1,846
    "More of a swooper,less of a pooper'.I'm going to use that one as enthusiatically as 'push the bush" hehe.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •