Quiver thoughts

[Jack Michaud]

This year I got a Coiler 163SL (21cm waist, 10-ish m VSR) to compliment my 171 Stubby (21cm, 14m) and 185 NSR (20cm, 16-ish m). The 163 was also needed because I had a feeling we would be dealing with a lot of ice this season, and we did. The metal 163 really made the season enjoyable. I was able to get carves done in less space and without going too fast, to make use of the reduced edge hold offered by the conditions. The metal construction gave me more grip than ever.

So this got me thinking - I have a metal 163 for icy days, and a metal 185 with Boiler plate for the really good days when I want to haul-a on a smooth ride, so why do I need a metal 171 anymore? I'm thinking my next 171 will be glass, maybe with carbon fiber in there, for the days when conditions are good but for whatever reason I don't want to ride a long, plated board. One of the days I will never forget was the first time I tried a Donek FC 171, in 2001. I was blown away by the energy and rebound. I want that feeling back.

So for me I think the perfect quiver might be:
Short metal ice machine
Medium glass hyperactive carver
Long metal speed board with plate.

Anyone go back to glass this year?

[kieran]

sounds like you want someone to talk you into ordering a donek Rev.

[lowrider]

I'm having similar feeling Jack but i think it has more to do with the abrupt end to the season and that nostalgic feeling for a season that slowly melts away instead of vanishing over nite. Ask your wife to give you a good slap in the face and see if you still feel the same about this bad idea !

[Jack Michaud]

sounds like you want someone to talk you into ordering a donek Rev.

No that's a metal race board. I want something poppy with a bit of a tail hook. I'm thinking a glass/CF 171 with 12-14-13m nose-mid-tail VSR...?

lowrider - lol, maybe!

[kieran]

No that's a metal race board. I want something poppy with a bit of a tail hook. I'm thinking a glass/CF 171 with 12-14-13m nose-mid-tail VSR...?

i of course meant Proteus, but somehow my fingers didn't get the message. why such a narrow variation, and not something like 12-16-14?
(12-16 or 12-16-14 on a 171 seems to be where my probably-flawed calculations are leading me.)

[b0ardski]

I think you'd love the proteus, I found it had more pop than the FC and I was wishing it was more like 21w for more playfulness with lower angles than the 19 waist 170 I demoed.

[scrapster]

Anyone go back to glass this year?

Thems fightin' words in these parts.

[piusthedrcarve]

Anyone go back to glass this year?

I went with mid length SG Full Carve this year from Kessler/SG metal mid-length decks last year. First few days, I was confused but once I dialed in, I am loving it. Got few more freecarving mid-length metal decks but passed them on to BOLers since I like full carve more. Still like decks that require rider's input.. so not after Coiler yet though (tried few and impressed by their effortless turns) but who know....

[lonbordin]

I think you'd love the proteus, I found it had more pop than the FC and I was wishing it was more like 21w for more playfulness with lower angles than the 19 waist 170 I demoed.

I'd put my name on that 170 Proteus I demo'd BUT I want that lower angles... custom here I come!

[pokkis]

Another aspect would be having boards with same length but with different widths.
I had just 3 boards, all 177 Coilers, one NSR+ with 21 waist for race days or when there was more space with BBP, one NSR with 23 waist also mainly used with BBP for EC, free carving and all around riding, and one NSR with 17cm waist. Or fully total different animals for different purposes.
For next season i will get new Coiler 177, with again new specs
And yes, might take also short Coiler just to have more feeling of tight skate carves

[Jonny]

The Proteus 180 at ECES suited me better than any other board I've ever been on, but the 170 would fit your description perfectly, especially if you asked Sean to build it a little wider. Tremendous energy at the end of the turn. Nothing wrong with the modern glass boards, though, which incorporate current thinking on decamber and VSR, especially for more aggressive riders. I'm pretty sure AlexJ is riding Coiler glass for his main freeride board - check with him maybe...

[Jack Michaud]

i of course meant Proteus, but somehow my fingers didn't get the message. why such a narrow variation, and not something like 12-16-14?
(12-16 or 12-16-14 on a 171 seems to be where my probably-flawed calculations are leading me.)

My 163 this year was about 9-11-10 and I loved it.

[colintkemp]

Maybe someone said this, but the Proteus is not VSR (it's single) and it's metal. That said, from talking with Sean (and indeed what folks are saying here), it sounds awesome.

I didn't get the memo about diversifying my board portfolio - I just got another Kessler 180...

Love this thread.

[corey_dyck]

We are on similar paths Jack. I've got a 167 VSR and a 182 NSR from Coiler. They both absolutely rock, and they have such different characteristics that the chances were that if I didn't love riding the one, the other one was about perfect. However, I wanted the fun 'snap' of my VSR mixed with a larger turn shape every now and then. I had no idea what I wanted to fill that niche, until I randomly hopped on Donek's 180 Proteus. I couldn't swing the coin for a new one, but Mr. EZE here had a demo/prototype for sale not long after SES. Done deal, I'm eager to ride it a short 8 months from now... Bindings are mounted, edges tuned, and waxed, but it just looks pretty in the closet until the snow comes back.

It's got some of that glass pop/snap/whatever that's missing from the big metal race decks, but makes bigger turns than my 167. I did 5 runs on it in Aspen but it had my heart after about 4 turns. If you keep it loaded up through the end of the turn you'll be airborne between turns. But it's still got that quiet/non-dramatic edge hold you expect from a metal board. Sean knocked this one out of the park, I predict he's going to sell a lot of these to contrast with the uber-damp race sticks that are quite popular now.

My only complaint: It's heavy. As in dense. When I first picked it out of the rack I checked to see if it was caught on something. Meh, it's still lighter than a board/plate combo.

[xy9ine]

the new donek freecarve looks like fun - decambered, vsr. a good deal at $680 too.

[KingCrimson]

I think this is the case for well made caps.. torsionally stiff as all hell without metal, and absolutely explosive off the tail. My tomahawk has had every reason to explode by now- I ride it like a stolen park board but its still going strong

[Jack Michaud]

Yeah, the description of the Proteus is what I'm looking for - "The Proteus is a carving machine designed for the expert rider who likes a board that gives back everything you give it. If you like a turn that ends with an explosion of energy that launches you through the air and into the next, this is one is for you."

...but it's metal. That does not seem to compute...? What's the deal here?

[corey_dyck]

I think it's magic. Maybe Voodoo. I don't care, it's fun!

[KingCrimson]

Yeah, the description of the Proteus is what I'm looking for - "The Proteus is a carving machine designed for the expert rider who likes a board that gives back everything you give it. If you like a turn that ends with an explosion of energy that launches you through the air and into the next, this is one is for you."

...but it's metal. That does not seem to compute...? What's the deal here?

Does metal actually do anything to dampen a board? I thought it just greatly reduced twist, wobble, chatter and sliding and that dampness/snap was a product of flex pattern and carbon vs. Glass as well as how much and where rubber is used. I have a very early metal coiler that is actually very lively.

[Jack Michaud]

It is the whole construction of course, metal + rubber + other stuff. For shorthand I just said metal.

[Mike T]

Yeah, the description of the Proteus is what I'm looking for - "The Proteus is a carving machine designed for the expert rider who likes a board that gives back everything you give it. If you like a turn that ends with an explosion of energy that launches you through the air and into the next, this is one is for you."

...but it's metal. That does not seem to compute...? What's the deal here?

The old Madd 158's doesn't exactly "compute" either, if you think about it...

... not sure I understand why metal and snappy are at odds with each other. I was under the impression that its the rubber in most metal boards that makes for most of the dampening, and that increased torsional stiffness and edge grip are what you're really getting from the metal.

It's odd, I had an older Donek FC too, and I don't recall my old FC 163 having anywhere near the giddy-up of my metal Coiler SL 161.

[GeoffV]

Jack you are killing me I had the same thoughts after testing some of Seans boards. I want some serious tail pop back in my life. I rode the Proteus 180, it was a great board, damp but still lively if that makes sense. I was very impressed with it. What I really wanted to try was the 180 Carbon-fibre topsheet that Sean had at the ECES, but it was a popular board and was always out on the hill. Maybe next season I'll see if I can test some glass-carbon boards.

New school decambered VSR shapes in a glass/carbon board thats what I want.

[kieran]

New school decambered VSR shapes in a glass/carbon board thats what I want.

i have one of those, though no carbon. it regularly scares the crap out of me. or maybe it's the 14-20 VSR on it.

[jacopodotti]

Never had a metal board but I get back to my no decamber old shaped Burton FP 178 and Wow everything is great, my thought is that decamber and the other new things are useful for racing but not for everyday carving.
I've used for two hours a Plasma Cruise 172/18 with mylar instead of titanal and it is a super board, Gunter from Plasma told me that mylar has the same feeling of titanal but it last longer

[corey_dyck]

...damp but still lively if that makes sense...

I think that there are certain frequencies of vibration that make it hard to ride, and they don't line up with those that make us think 'lively'. It seems that current metal construction sucks up those bad ones especially well, and the artists are learning how to bring back the 'yee-haw' ones us freecarvers like.

I've witnessed similar tests with a big data acquisition system in vehicles. Certain frequencies can be surprisingly loud without people getting annoyed, but some others irritate people if they're present at all. This test would be tough to do as the equipment tends to be too big for a backpack and/or really expensive. This is the stuff automakers test to great lengths to ensure they deliver what their target audience expects.

[kieran]

going with coreys frequency talk and throwing in a bit of synth talk, it sounds like jack wants a board with modulated attack, smoothed delay-sustain, and unconstrained release. (adsr envelope modelling)
smooth and absorbent while decambering, controllable while in that position, and explosive on exit. isn't that what virus boards are made of?

[AlexJ]

Never left glass, that's all I ride except the metal Oxess GS board. Have yet to Gel with a metal board. Hopefully some day I will find one to fit my freakish oddball riding abilities.

[John H]

Love the ride/feel of my Coiler VSRM which is my go to board but on those days when conditions are right, read not ice, I'll get out the Virus Evo III. Even though the Virus is metal/carbon/??? it is very snappy and lively compared to the Coiler. The Virus has some of the properties of a carbon board and some of the properties of a metal board, not as damp as a metal board and not as snappy as a non metal board but pretty close. Certainly feels different than a Coiler/Prior/Kessler. Sounds like the Proteus might be similar in feel to the Virus.

[~tb]

I think that there are certain frequencies of vibration that make it hard to ride, and they don't line up with those that make us think 'lively'. It seems that current metal construction sucks up those bad ones especially well, and the artists are learning how to bring back the 'yee-haw' ones us freecarvers like.

I've witnessed similar tests with a big data acquisition system in vehicles. Certain frequencies can be surprisingly loud without people getting annoyed, but some others irritate people if they're present at all. This test would be tough to do as the equipment tends to be too big for a backpack and/or really expensive. This is the stuff automakers test to great lengths to ensure they deliver what their target audience expects.

You might be surprised. I have a 2 channel frequency recording system set up that fits into 2 pockets, or EASILY into one of those camel back packs (without the bladder).

I agree with you though, it is about getting rid of certain frequencies, without getting rid of them ALL.

[corey_dyck]

You might be surprised. I have a 2 channel frequency recording system set up that fits into 2 pockets, or EASILY into one of those camel back packs (without the bladder).

Cool! I've only seen big units that'll do into the kHz range. One sensor on the boot and one on the board can tell worlds about what the board is doing and what the binding is damping out. put that setup on a bunch of different boards and collect rider opinions, and you're in your way to figuring out what the 'bad' frequencies are.