Bam! You hit a fellow carver breaking their board. Do you replace the board?

[fin]

So there was a debate at the the Sessions this year that I want to bring to the forum.

You make an honest mistake on the hill one day. You're the uphill carver and you miscalculate what the carver below you (downhill) is doing. You end up hitting the guy and in the procces breaking his board beyond ridable or repairable. No one is hurt, but the guy you hit has a toast board.

Are you obligated to replace the fellow carvers board?

Keep in mind this is not a debate of the classic "down hill rider" code. In this poll we assume the uphill rider was, well, uphill and made the mistake.

[davekempmeister]

yes, absolutely. i'd be interested in how a "no" answer to this question would be defensible, if anyone cares to try. i won't argue, i'd just like to see what shape it takes - maybe a lawyer amongst us can give it a shot for fun?

[KingCrimson]

So there was a debate at the the Sessions this year that I want to bring to the forum.

You make an honest mistake on the hill one day. You're the uphill carver and you miscalculate what the carver below you (downhill) is doing. You end up hitting the guy and in the procces breaking his board beyond ridable or repairable. No one is hurt, but the guy you hit has a toast board.

Are you obligated to replace the fellow carvers board?

Keep in mind this is not a debate of the classic "down hill rider" code. In this poll we assume the uphill rider was, well, uphill and made the mistake.

You say miscalculate, to me that places the burden on the uphill rider.

If the downhill rider does something unpredictable or illogical like a big fat turn on a flat or just before a flat (when everyone avoids burning speed and runs it straight) I'd say it's their fault.

I've also had near misses where someone's across-the-hill progress is stopped by chatter when I intended to pass behind and I've come very close to hitting them, and I've also had the same done to me. In that case I'd blame the uphill rider anyway for trying to pass too closely.

[lowrider]

If you have any self respect ( and value our civil society) you try to do the right thing. If it's a demo from Bomber at ECES you return it quietly and hope no one notices.

[Algunderfoot]

Responsibility Code, Rule # 2 does not include an "except when" clause....at least not yet. I have only hit one other rider, fortunately not seriously hurt, no board damage, still buying drinks for life, because it was my fault and my fault only. How possibly can the downhill person be at all responsible, radar, ESP, Crystal ball, please!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Come on guys, read Fin's post - he doesn't want an argument over who is at fault. Assume you are the guy at fault and the other guy's board is broken. Do you pay or not?

[Dan]

Apologize, pay for the board and thank your lucky stars there were no injuries -- would you rather pay for a board, or pay OR bills? I'm a little disappointed that there are apparently enough people on the other side of this question that it's necessary to put up a poll.

[Ian M]

It would hurt my disposable income, but absolutely. I believe in being accountable for my own actions.

It's the golden rule - how would you like to be treated if you were the one staring at a broken board?

[Jack Michaud]

If the downhill rider does something unpredictable or illogical like a big fat turn on a flat or just before a flat (when everyone avoids burning speed and runs it straight) I'd say it's their fault.

the code does not support your notion. imagine the downhill rider is your child...

[neil sunday]

Uphill.. PAYUP!

[Algunderfoot]

Come on guys, read Fin's post - he doesn't want an argument over who is at fault. Assume you are the guy at fault and the other guy's board is broken. Do you pay or not?

No argument here, He pays if he has any character at all.

[John E]

I don't necessarily agree that you must replace the board but it is the right thing to do.

[Mike T]

I know I'd feel awful, and I'd replace the board. And, it wouldn't have to be a fellow carver either. The same would apply to a soft booter, skier, monoskier, park rat, etc.

Assuming its my fault of course. If the guy pops out of the trees without looking and onto the trail, for example, he's violated The Code as well as good common sense, and then I thank goodness that nobody got hurt but tend to my own damaged gear...

[lafcadio]

I don't necessarily agree that you must replace the board but it is the right thing to do.

Yeah, I kind of agree with both answers the way the question is worded. Personally, I would replace the board and I would feel terrible if it happend and I was at fault. However, in general I don't think anyone is obligated to do anything.

[dingbat]

I'd replace the board.
I'd also be pretty happy if all that broke was just gear.

[sic t 2]

I guess I am used to motorcycle racing. You enter "the arena", you "takes your chances like an adult".
No one ever pays for damages to someone's bike that you just smashed. Its unheard of.

I mean, if you start this whiny "paying thing" then it follows that you are responsible for the man's 6 months lost wages because of their broken leg (assuming the innocent party is a roofer & sider). Of course none of us will dig deep for that !!

And then it also follows that you should reimburse for medical bills if the guy doesn't have medical insurance for his mangled appendage. Of course none of us will dig deep for that either !!

I think the following exchange should occur between two grownups:

"Hey, sorry about that. My fault. Can I help pay for the damages to your board?".

"No, no, its ok. I was going to get a new board anyway. Now I have an excuse to do it".

One exception: if the board was hanging in the "free ski check" when it got hit

[zoltan]

I guess I am used to motorcycle racing. You enter "the arena", you "takes your chances like an adult".
No one ever pays for damages to someone's bike that you just smashed. Its unheard of.

Except the two are very different things. With snowboarding there is a person with 100% responsibility for keeping clear of the other person. You don't have that in motorcycle racing.

[scrapster]

I think you certainly (and sincerely) OFFER to replace the board. It could be, however, a rich dude with a private jet who just laughs the whole thing off

Another thought--do you pay new replacement value or depreciated value?

[C5 Golfer]

I would feel obligated to pay... But it would be a little negotiable...due to what board is he riding and its condition at the time of the accident. I would tell him/her looks like it is my fault, “what can I do to make up for the broken board?” If he is reasonable – I would send him a check the next day.

[dingbat]

I guess I am used to motorcycle racing. You enter "the arena", you "takes your chances like an adult".
No one ever pays for damages to someone's bike that you just smashed. Its unheard of.

I mean, if you start this whiny "paying thing" then it follows that you are responsible for the man's 6 months lost wages because of their broken leg (assuming the innocent party is a roofer & sider). Of course none of us will dig deep for that !!

And then it also follows that you should reimburse for medical bills if the guy doesn't have medical insurance for his mangled appendage. Of course none of us will dig deep for that either !!

I think the following exchange should occur between two grownups:

"Hey, sorry about that. My fault. Can I help pay for the damages to your board?".

"No, no, its ok. I was going to get a new board anyway. Now I have an excuse to do it".

One exception: if the board was hanging in the "free ski check" when it got hit

When I'm on the hill, I don't sign on for anything in the way of other people hitting me. Realize it's a possibility, yes, but still their bad and their responsibility if they are the out of control, uphill, rider. (and yes they are out of control if they hit someone, unless they meant to hit them) To the best of my knowledge, whenever you put on a lift ticket or pass and ride at any ski area in the U.S., you are agreeing to abide by the skier's code of responsibility.

The race track is a completely different environment. If you think that my wife, daughter, and I are in some sort of competition with you when we are out free-riding, and you hit one of us while overtaking, and then take the above attitude, your day would not end well.

[twelsch42]

If you hit someone hard enough to break their board, one or both people are not going to walk away from that accident. If a broken board was the only carnage after hitting someone that hard I'd consider myself lucky.

Splitting the cost of a new board seems reasonable, but not necessary. Any board on the snow has been used. Just because someone jacked my board up doesn't entitle me to a glossy new board.

How do you ask someone to pay for a $2500 virus they just broke? How do you put a value on a NOS board that's not made anymore?

When you take you gear to the hill you assume the risk that it might not make it home in one piece. Materials could fail, you could hit a tree, you could hit a landing wrong, you could stuff the nose hard.

What if you do any of these to avoid someone who is out of control, and subsequently break your own equipment? Should they pay because they were out of control even if they didnt hit you physically?

Big bag of worms for sure.

[tahoetrencher]

I was riding my white-walled Madd 170?
I think there are still 6 or 7 around the board...

[tahoetrencher]

matter of fact there is another one lurking here right now.

[scrutton]

Ahh, this all reminds me of the Sex and the City episode "A Woman's Right to Shoes", especially if you are riding a Virus :-)

[scrutton]

Yeah, if it's someone who paid full-whack for the board, you replace it with equivalent, and you get to keep their old board to build a plate out of :-). If it's a demo or something, there had better be some wiggle room.

[Dan]

Would you still replace my board if I was riding my white-walled Madd 170?
I think there are still 6 or 7 around the board...

Don't get me wrong, I would hate to shell out for a new Kessler or an expensive-to-replace classic board, and it would put a crimp in my gear budget for a long time. But do you really think that the answer should be different if the victim is riding a $50 lunch tray vs. a $1,500 Kessler? It's a lot more painful to replace a Kessler, but it's still your responsibility.

Mind you, if it was really irreplaceable, I might try to talk you into a new metal Coiler or something

Also, those voting "no" above, please identify yourself here so I know to let you go in front.

[davekempmeister]

Yeah, if it's someone who paid full-whack for the board, you replace it with equivalent, and you get to keep their old board to build a plate out of :-). If it's a demo or something, there had better be some wiggle room.

i do believe that if i paid the full replacement value of someone's board, i'd want the damaged board. particularly if there were any hope that it could be salvaged for some second - life purpose.
interesting thread, for sure.

[scrutton]

Not to thread jack, but doesn't it tick you off when someone (usually on rentals) ski's over the back of your board in the lift line (probably an East coast thing), and they don't even realize that that's a problem. Makes me want to make them get their check-book out right there and write me a check for some wear and tear on the board. I am thinking seriously of those metal spikes for the next new board.

[fin]

I guess we can certainly debate what is "required" for you to do in this situation, but I am more interested in what is the "right thing" to do.

Several year ago I barrowed a buddies truck to go to the Hardware store in town. I parked the truck, turned away, and started walking to the store entrance. I heard a loud "THUD" and turned around to see the truck has silently rolled one row of cars down (parking lot is on a slight slant) and hit the door of what looked like a nice new Acura sedan. The parking brake in the truck did not work even if you set it to the floor as I had done and I had also not put it in gear as the back-up.

So I staring at this situation and I remember these scenarios running through my head:

• OK, no one is around or saw it. Get in the truck and drive away.
• This is my friends fault. He should have told me the parking brake did not work.
• The owner probably has insurance, no skin off my back.
• I actually even blamed the owner of the car for parking there at one point

I eventually stopped and told myself I know what I have to do. Went in the store, found the manager, put a call out on the PA for the owner of the car. When the owner showed up she was stunned. She could not believe someone would take responsibility for this. I paid for the damages out of pocket and had her car fixed.

My point is I could not accept the fact that had I not done the right thing I would remember that for long time, just as I remember it now. Every time I saw a hit and run and made the comment we all do "what a scum bag" I would cringe a little inside knowing I was that scum-bag. Why would I want that hanging over me for years? Bottom line, I feel good for taking responsibility for my actions, she feels good as she gets her car back to where it was, and the world is just a little bit (very little bit) better.

[scrapster]

It is a really interesting thread. I guess one of the problems with hypotheticals like this is life is rarely so black and white. What if the person doesn't expect you to replace their board? Do you insist? What if they're a con man and try to seriously screw you over? What happens if it turns out they're riding some fancy, mega high-end skis that cost them $5,000? what happens if your wife says "fat chance!"?

Funny, this kind of reminds me of the law school example of gently bumping your car into a an individual with brittle bone disease and having it kill them. Even though it was a minor, almost non-accident, you're still responsible for the damage it caused. I always found that sobering.

Anyway, for me, I think the bottom line would be that I'd try to make things right in a mutually agreed-to way.