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Thread: Kessler World Cup SL 162 with APEX Race Plate V2

  1. #1
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    Kessler World Cup SL 162 with APEX Race Plate V2

    A very sweet ride.


  2. #2
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    Looks good... didn't really notice the plate. Any views on that?

    Surprised u-tube didn't pick up on the Smashing Pumpkins - I thought they stripped sound tracks out?

  3. #3
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    Sick carving!!! You look like you're having way too much fun!!
    -queequeg

  4. #4
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    Nice vid ! Who is your camera man taking the tail shots ? Is this a warm up for the Coiler plate video ? MSLM should be paying you for making their runs look longer !

  5. #5
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    wow
    i want to ride like that
    nice vid.

  6. #6
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    Nice video. I need to scape the wax off my kessler, and ride it. Maybe riding it more I can look like that. The video of the coiler 173 vsr, was fun to watch. Nice switch carvering

  7. #7
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    Review

    As per the title of the video, the Kessler SL 162 was paired with a V2 APEX Race Plate. My experience on plates is fairly limited. On the previous 2 occasions that I have tried one, I was also riding the accompanying board for the first time as well. As I never had the opportunity to ride the board back to back with and without the plate to discern its relative impact on the ride, I can only comment on the board/plate setup experience as a whole. To be honest, a part of me never got excited by the idea about a plate system; dismissing it as something only for racers (or perhaps a fad amongst the alpine community). However; after trying this pairing, it’s got me rethinking its application even for freecarving.

    One of the pluses (at least for my own personal circumstance) was something that I had not really thought about previously. When riding hard for prolonged periods, I tend to get quite a bit of tenderness on a part of my front leg. It’s almost like a ‘shin bang’ of sorts, although in a different location; it’s the muscle just above my outside ankle bone and next to my achilles tendon on my front foot. It’s an odd pain in that it only hurts to the touch or from boot pressure. Without any pressure I would barely even notice it. I could even run without any issues but I recall an occasion where I was unable to ride the next day because it was so painful. Riding with the plate seemed to alleviate the tenderness quite significantly. The amount of tenderness usually has a direct correlation to how aggressively I’m riding and the bumpiness of the terrain. Given the amount of time I had on this board setup, the plate definitely had some benefits in this regard.

    There is a bit of tedium in setting up the plate initially with its washers, pins and axles, but once you’ve done it a couple of times the system is relatively simple to mount. As with any plate, there is going to be added weight to the setup but this wasn’t much of an issue for me. Upon examination after mounting, the lateral play of the plate along the mounting axles does seem a bit odd. However; once you’re on the board, the plate does its thing and you don’t feel this at all. The only evidence of this might be what you hear as there is some noise coming off the mounting hardware.

    The V2 plate has a nice low profile. I recall having a bit of an odd feeling with other plates when skating to and from the chair, but this one is low enough where it was much less noticeable. The board felt very good right from the onset. Having the plate on the board did not make it feel foreign at all. It did not feel too stiff and I never felt disconnected from the snow. I can only presume that it further accentuated the smoothness and grip that is inherent in the Kessler.

    The board’s edge hold was superb. I especially noticed this on my heel side turns when compared with other rides. When riding a race style with more of an upright upper body position, I’ve always found railing a heel side slightly more challenging. (I’ve always found high edge angle heel sides more comfortable with a ‘freecarving’ style, where I’m lower and more compressed with my upper body extended forward.) The Kessler made heel sides feel very solid and sure underfoot regardless of the riding style. The board eats ice for breakfast!…. lunch, dinner and dessert for that matter! I rode this late in the day as well, a time when a lot of snow was scraped off leaving large pockets of pretty solid ice throughout the hill. Where this would normally be quite intimidating, I was still feeling confident riding in those type of conditions.

    The board/plate combo was very damp. It had very little ‘pop' which is exactly the intent of the setup. Any air between the board and snow coming off a transition was more as a result of launching off a bump or when aggressively down un-weighting during transitions. Although I have always had an affinity for lively boards, the speed that the Kessler generated coming out of a turn and its vice like edge hold more than made up for this. This is a board you can ride all day as well. Great for carrying decent speed as well as making tighter turns when needed. No doubt that the plate system will also help in lengthening out your riding day by easing the abuse your legs will take once the terrain gets choppier throughout the day.

    I have not had much experience riding boards of this length in recent years. I started on an old Burton Alp, but it would be silly to even try to make any comparisons to that. Despite the length, the board handled the speed much better than I would have expected. This Kessler SL has a bigger than normal sidecut at 11.5m so this seemed to help stabilize the board at higher speeds. Lengthening out the turns to control speed was also something the board was more than capable of doing. Unlike a 185 GS Kessler I tried for a few runs with the original APEX Race Plate last season, this was definitely a more user friendly ride. It’s less demanding than the 185 for obvious reasons yet it’s still a board that rewards the rider when ridden aggressively.

    This is a board that has fun written all over it … a great overall ride!

    Gabe
    Last edited by Gabe T; February 16th, 2012 at 07:32 PM.

  8. #8
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    I knew you would finally come around sooner or later.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the review Gabe.
    You have helped me towards solving a pleasant problem I have.

    SunSurfer
    Alan McKenzie (a.k.a. SunSurfer)

  10. #10
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    Great camera work

    Quote Originally Posted by lowrider View Post
    Nice vid ! Who is your camera man taking the tail shots ? Is this a warm up for the Coiler plate video ? MSLM should be paying you for making their runs look longer !
    For anyone who has played around with the GoPro, you probably know that more often than not, the shots come out not quite perfect….Excessive camera shake, subject being the size of a pea etc.

    The self filmed shots with a pole or mounted to gear; although quite interesting at first, become a bit on the repetitive side. It was so cool to see the new perspectives when the camera was introduced, but I think we’ve all but exhausted the possible angles. What I really still enjoy watching is a good quality, dynamic chase shot. For that, I think a lot of the credit for the quality of the video must go to the camera person. (Nothing worse than laying down a killer run, only to find out your camera person wiped out after your second turn!)

    The chase shots were taken by my friend Scott who is a skier (and a pretty decent one at that). He’s actually only taken a handful of chase shots with the camera but every one of them turns out to be pretty damn good. You can see his shadow holding his poles at the beginning of this clip. All the extended chase clips I’ve included in my videos were shot by him including the very first shot he took with the camera. They just seem to be getting better and better.

    I experimented with quite a few shots (as both the subject and the videographer) on the same day this video was shot, but this ended up being the best. I passed the camera to Scott for the only shot he took and this was the result. Nice and close tracking shot from beginning to end with rear and side shots…very steady too. It looked like I was about to t-bone him at 0:26 and he didn’t even flinch! (My excuse for not freaking out was that I actually did not see him and only noticed how close I got when I saw the video!) Last year, he got a face full of spring granular at close range shot right in his face from a hard heel side, (which apparently hurts like hell!) but he still kept on shooting. : )

    Note: The latest vids were shot in R4 mode on the original GoPro HD



    I took off my hood and made sure my pit zips were up for the Kessler video to get some more speed!... lookin' a lot like the Michelin Man here in the end.

    Gabe

  11. #11
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    Yes, your tail-gunner's doing really well. I assume he's holding the GoPro on a ski pole. You do have to get pretty close with them. I have a Glidecam gadget for my DSLR which I want to try as a follow-cam.

    I'm not sure how well that will work snowboarding though; slowing your speed (on piste at least) means sideslipping the board which will move the camera at least a bit.

    Thinking about it... it would be good if the cameraman could move from behind to in front, circling the rider who was moving down the hill. Maybe you'd not get all the way around, but you could probably get to the "two o'clock" position or so. Hmm.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post
    ... When riding hard for prolonged periods, I tend to get quite a bit of tenderness on a part of my front leg. It’s almost like a ‘shin bang’ of sorts, although in a different location; it’s the muscle just above my outside ankle bone and next to my achilles tendon on my front foot. It’s an odd pain in that it only hurts to the touch or from boot pressure. Without any pressure I would barely even notice it. I could even run without any issues but I recall an occasion where I was unable to ride the next day because it was so painful. Riding with the plate seemed to alleviate the tenderness quite significantly. The amount of tenderness usually has a direct correlation to how aggressively I’m riding and the bumpiness of the terrain. ...

    Gabe
    Has anybody else had this and what have you done to get rid of it? I've got this right now (front and rear legs on the outside of the shins) and it's almost enough to make me consider going back to softies. I can't figure out how to alleviate it. Maybe some serious outward canting as I'm a little bow-legged. But the thing is I don't even have to be in my bindings to have this be painful, just doing up the upper cuff of my boot puts pressure on this area.

    Dave
    "At one point I was seeing my bootfitter so much my wife was begining to think I was having an affair with him."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddy Tat View Post
    Has anybody else had this and what have you done to get rid of it? I've got this right now (front and rear legs on the outside of the shins) and it's almost enough to make me consider going back to softies. I can't figure out how to alleviate it. Maybe some serious outward canting as I'm a little bow-legged. But the thing is I don't even have to be in my bindings to have this be painful, just doing up the upper cuff of my boot puts pressure on this area.

    Dave
    I have had the same stupid problem these last two seasons. It didn't show up this year until I was racing bx on plates and landed in the back seat and rode through the finish line in a big manual with my butt on the snow.

    Just based on it cropping up after I put my leg in a situation where I'm pulling my up on my front foot, I'm assuming it's related to what Marco calls midweighting..Basically the technique more popular with racers than freecarvers which results in lots of wheelies and ollies in transitions. Last year at the USASA Nationals between that and a broken toe I was barely able to ride when I was racing slalom..I had to stop at the bottom of the course and keep weight off it before riding down to the lift after every run.

    I'm assuming the Apex helps because bumps don't hurt already inflamed tissue.. I don't know how it would help the strain caused by essentially sucking your foot out of the boot.

  14. #14
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    Canting

    Quote Originally Posted by Puddy Tat View Post
    Has anybody else had this and what have you done to get rid of it? I've got this right now (front and rear legs on the outside of the shins) and it's almost enough to make me consider going back to softies. I can't figure out how to alleviate it. Maybe some serious outward canting as I'm a little bow-legged. But the thing is I don't even have to be in my bindings to have this be painful, just doing up the upper cuff of my boot puts pressure on this area.

    Dave
    As you mentioned, canting may help alleviate the issue. This would include any canting options available from your boots. Here is an old but still relevant article about canting written by Bruce Varsava:

    http://www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_article04.htm

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post
    As you mentioned, canting may help alleviate the issue. This would include any canting options available from your boots. Here is an old but still relevant article about canting written by Bruce Varsava:

    http://www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_article04.htm
    Did you find something specific to sort out the pain that we are both having?

  16. #16
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    KC and Gabe T,

    Ok I'm bow-legged so I added maximum outward canting to my bootcuffs. I then put the boots on and hiked around in my house; walking in the boots was immediately easier as the sole of the boot was hitting the ground flat rather than on edge. I then took a look at my bindings. It turns out I actually had "inward" canting on my AM board (WTF was I thinking?). I brought these back to flat and went out and rode a couple of days later. There was an immediate difference in the shin pain on the outside of the shins. Normally by the end of the day my shins would be in so much pain I could barely ride, now it is almost not noticeable even after a couple of days of riding. It's still there so to completely eliminate it I think I probably need to add a bit of outward cant to my bindings.

    One thing that was suggested, but I haven't yet tried, was to clip my boot shells (without the liners) onto the board, and then stand in them. If you use an insole you should place that into the shell prior to stepping into them as it will change the way your foot and leg sit. Once you are in the boots stand in a neutral position and take a look at how the shell's cuff is centered around your lower leg. It certainly shouldn't be touching anywhere and, I think, ideally in a neutral position your lower leg should probably be roughly centered. If it isn't consider adding some binding cant to bring the cuff to a position where it is centered around your lower leg. It was also suggested that I do this standing in a doorway as apparently standing in your set-up like this is more than a little unstable.

    Cheers,

    Dave
    "At one point I was seeing my bootfitter so much my wife was begining to think I was having an affair with him."

  17. #17
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    I am having this issue as well. I noticed I went from riding a narrow board with appropriate angles to riding a wider board with inboard angles. The additional leverage may have caused the pain. Not sure. I have since lowered the angles and canted outwards. Hard to tell if that fixed the issue because the muscles are still tender. When you are on your heelside do you feel the bootcuff hitting you right where the pain is?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailertrash View Post
    ... When you are on your heelside do you feel the bootcuff hitting you right where the pain is?
    Yeah. When I had the inward canting especially. By the end of the day even heelside traverses, or hitting chop in a slow traverse, would cause pain. The outward cuff canting really help alieviate the pain I would get just buckling my boots up, as previously the outside of the cuff was levering on the outside of my shin just having the boots on.

    I think standing in the empty shell will show you where pressure points from the cuff are. A direct comparison to this was my bootfitter always had me stand in an empty shell to sort out where he needed to blow out the lower shell. If my foot was touching an area he'd push it out. Ok I've got pretty screwed up feet.

    Dave
    "At one point I was seeing my bootfitter so much my wife was begining to think I was having an affair with him."

  19. #19
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    I've got a Kessler SL 162 for sale here...
    http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulleti...Kessler-162-SL

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by philw View Post

    Surprised u-tube didn't pick up on the Smashing Pumpkins - I thought they stripped sound tracks out?
    Uhmm, looks like they finally picked up on it. I wonder if any countries can still view the original. First time I've actually had one blocked.

    Anyways, here's the same vid with another track.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puddy Tat View Post
    Yeah. When I had the inward canting especially. By the end of the day even heelside traverses, or hitting chop in a slow traverse, would cause pain. The outward cuff canting really help alieviate the pain I would get just buckling my boots up, as previously the outside of the cuff was levering on the outside of my shin just having the boots on.

    I think standing in the empty shell will show you where pressure points from the cuff are. A direct comparison to this was my bootfitter always had me stand in an empty shell to sort out where he needed to blow out the lower shell. If my foot was touching an area he'd push it out. Ok I've got pretty screwed up feet.

    Dave
    Seeing as Gabe dragged this thread back from the dead I thought I'd give an update on the shin pain that I had going on.

    I used to have full time shin pain on the outside of my shins where I pressured the boot cuff throughout the entire season. It would get better over the summer but then a couple of days into the season I'd be in pain to the point where my shins would be so tender I couldn't put my feet up on the coffee table and cross my ankles. It was getting bad enough I was considering going back to softies.

    I had tried switching out my liners with tongues for full wraps thermos, that alleviated the pain a little, but never eliminated it completely. Another key point here was that I was even noticing pain when I'd buckle my boots up never mind riding.

    At the midpoint of this season I used the cuff canting on my boot and canted the boot cuff from a neutral position to fully outward. This immediately made it easier to walk and I noticed when I stomped my foot down that the sole of the boot was hitting the ground flat rather than at an angle. Apparently I'm rather bow legged.

    I also noticed on my carving board that the pain mostly went away. It was still there on the AM board, but noticeably reduced. When I checked the bindings on the AM deck I discovered I had set them up with inward canting. Going back to flat on this binding, and adding slight outward canting on the carving deck eliminated the remainder of the pain. I rode for the remainder of the season, March, April, and May with absolutely no pain from my shins.

    Again most of this was eliminated by using the cuff canting on the boot. I think if you are a bit bow legged the boot cuff in a neutral postion is going to apply excessive pressure to the outside of your shins when your foot is strapped in and flat in the boot. Try taking the liner out of your boot, then installing any footbeds and standing in the boot. If the cuff isn't centered side to side around your shin, it going to be applying pressue and you should probably consider changing the cuff canting to compensate and center it around your shin.

    Cheers,

    Dave
    Last edited by Puddy Tat; June 23rd, 2012 at 06:00 AM.
    "At one point I was seeing my bootfitter so much my wife was begining to think I was having an affair with him."

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