Old Burton or Rossi Bindings-Should I Be worried?

[ziolino66]

Trying out softies last season convinced me that a HB setup is still for me the best way to go. Problem is budget is tight, so my 2 options for bindings are both relics from late 90s. One is the standard Burton Race Plates-bought new by me '99-2000?...with lots of hard miles on them. Other option is a pair of Rossi bindings found while searching for "new-to-me" boots. Smaller guy said he used them 20-30 times when starting, they look kinda solid, but..?. They have some canting built into the bases, which is something I liked on one of my early setups. Sad to say, I won't be riding much this year, but if everything feels good I do like to ride fairly aggressively, and I weigh 190. I'm aware metal fatigues with age and stress, and cheaper bindings can fail many ways (experienced..yikes!). I know TD1s come up for sale cheap, but (if I understand correctly what I've read here) I think they're too stiff for my liking? Any suggestions what I should look for in the future? Ideally it would be more flexi/forgiving for allmtn freeriding, but industrial strength so breakage is not a concern.

So..any opinions/info./advice on whether I can trust one of these bindings to give me 1 more year of service?
Any, and all input appreciated!

[ibrussell]

I run a set of Burtons just like those no worries, I'm 180#, check the toe levers for cracks. The Rossis you need to make sure the adjustment screws stay tight. Charlie

[skategoat]

My daughter (under 100 lbs at the time) blew up a pair of those Rossis. They were already pretty used up when I got them. There's a lot of plastic in those bindings and plastic deteriorates with exposure to UV.

I would trust the Burtons over the Rossis but if I were you, I'd just spend $100-$150 on a good set of used bindings. F2, SnoPro, Bomber, Catek.

[jacopodotti]

I'm 196cm x 264 lbs and never broke a Burton Race in 20 year.
I'm not an aggressive carver but I'm so out of standard in weight.
It's so important how do you set them up.
You could find numbers on the plastic part and they should be more or less the same to get a centered boot.
You should be able to close the clip with just one hand.Have a look at the binding upside down, the screws must not overhang if the do for small amount use washers or you are going to scratch your board.
Place a thin rubber gasket under the binding such as a cutted from an inner tube.
Look at the bindings upside down there are different one for left foot one for right foot.
As soon as I can I'll post some pictures

[dano]

The clear plastic cracks on those but won't make the binding fail. Pretty scary though.

I had a heel block screw strip out on one of those greenies...The plate alloy seemed pretty thin and brittle to me. Don't overtighten!

Burton upgraded the design for a reason. Newer race plates were beefier.

I can't speak for the Rossis. Did they make their own?

[Gtanner]

Those race plates are from 1997, so that's 15 years old...

I've broken many race plates over the years, and I float around 200 lbs.

-Gord

[icebiker]

Info on older Burton bindings here...

http://www.alpinecarving.com/binding_model.html#older

One specific mention of the clear plastic models breaking, as well as bales breaking.

I have Race Plates too (orange solid plastic over metal base plates), and picked up a set of front and rear bales from Bomber (they are now sold as IBEX) in case mine break.

[jacopodotti]

In blue the clip modifications that helps you in locking.
The "one hand locking setup" should be done without using the rope!
In red the holes with different size and shape for left an right and the word "inside" which has to be between the feet .

[jacopodotti]

In red the holes with different size and shape for left an right the upper side in the foto has to be between the feet .
In green a too long screw.
In cyan right lenght screw.

[jtslalom]

I'm not sure about the Rossignal bindings, I never knew that compnay manufactured hard bindings. I have had many pairs of Burton bindings though. They are good and can last for a long time however I personally have had quite a few failures with them. The metal base plate will crack. Take your bindings off your board and flip them over. There should be a metal base plate. If it is cracked any where, discard them. They will DEFINATELY fail. If there are no cracks I would ride them but you must check them from time to time. The toe bails could break as well. I have broken a few of these over time. Overall, the Burton plates are pretty good but could fail over time. I rode those plates from 1995 to 2005 and had at least 5 different sets. All but one pair broke. I rode about 50+ days a year during those years and put alot of stress on them. I weigh 175 and have a fairly agressive riding style.

Good Luck

[ziolino66]

Thanks to everyone for the input. As I was pretty sure I'd heard before, the concensus seems to be that it's just a matter of time till somepart of the Burtons fail. I don't think I want to be on them when they do. So the ??remains: what is a good solid replacement, that's not too stiff? I'm sure it'll = more $ than I can spend now, but for future reference I'm going to start another thread. As for rossis, I saw the same listed in classified awhile back and there seemed to be a couple of people interested from previous experience...going to see if I can find them for input.

ibrussell--as seen in photo, I already had to replace 1 lever
skategoat--I wonder if they were the same model of Rossis? The base on these are actually solid metal (quite heavy), only the blocks holding the bales are some sort of plastic. But then I wonder if like most things, it would only be as strong as it's weakest part? I've wanted to buy stronger bindings for a while, but don't want them too stiff. RE- your avatar, the longest skating rink in the world is now open!
jacopodotti--mine are a different model/era of Burton. Mi piace l'idea corda, ottimo per quando sono fuori forma! E 'passato troppo tempo da quando ho visitato la patria, devono andare a vedere i parenti .. che stanno invecchiando. Sul brillante lato, se vado in inverno ho potuto finalmente di snowboard in Italia, spero tu possa darmi dei consigli su dove.
dano--like I said, experienced binding failure once...don't want to live that "rush" again! But.. what,s solid without being too stiff?
Gtanner--'97 eh.. ya think it's time for an update! But what? Solid butnot too stiff? How's Fort Mac for ya? I maybe coming back if decent job doesn't happen soon. Heard things are picking up again?
icebiker--thanks for the link, forgot about that site, found lots of good info there in the past but had never checked out there binding info. New bales may be an idea, original ones are ok now, but like Gtanner said "15 years old", kinda worrisome. May checkout replacements, but then wonder if money better spent on all new? Thanks again.
jtslalom--Rossis ?--the mounting disc has their logo on it, and there is no other manuf. markings on it so..? Curious what you replaced broken bales on the Burtons with? How did they compare to originals?

[jacopodotti]

Grande!
I've had the green and clear plastic model and as far as I could remember the aluminium part is the same the thing that change is the gasket that is in between the plastic an the metal , in my one is between the metal and the board that's why I use to put a gasket under that binding.
Having it prevents scratch on the board and gives that little movement capabilities( in italian is called grado di libertà) that helps the bindings not to break.
Please contact me when you 'll come back to Italy and if there isn't snow we can still have a bicchiere di vino together!
Maybe you broke the clip because you did'n use the "just one hand" setup.

[Puddy Tat]

... the concensus seems to be that it's just a matter of time till somepart of the Burtons fail. I don't think I want to be on them when they do. So the ??remains: what is a good solid replacement, that's not too stiff?...

Check out yyzcanuck (www.yyzcanuck.com). They are out of Toronto and carry Bomber, F2, and IBEX bindings as well as other fun alpine stuff.

Dave

[jacopodotti]

F2 Titanium , right flex, strong enough, too expensive for what they worth.

[Puddy Tat]

F2 Titanium , right flex, strong enough, too expensive for what they worth.

I think yyz has some 2010-2011 Race Titaniums for $249?

[ncermak]

buy a 10 dollar old board at an exchange, mount those on them, then hang it on the walls. those were scketchy when i had them 12 years ago...they were old and outdated then.

[jtslalom]

Curious what you replaced broken bales on the Burtons with? How did they compare to originals?

Back then Burton was very good on replacing broken parts. From 1995 to about 2002, Burton replaced all the broken parts of my Carbon Race plates and Physics plates. They sent me so many replacement parts that I could literally build a new pair of bindings. After 2002 they stopped replacing parts for free but luckily I had enough base plates and bails to last a while. When I sold all my hard bindings I sold them all together with all the spare parts.

[carvedog]

If you are worried replace the other three bails and be done. These are good bindings. I will take them. I ride very hard with thousands of days on these binders. One broken base plate and a few broken bails but on the day I broke one of mine two other guys also had binding failures one on older bombers and one on F2.

Really if you don't want them, I will take them.

You do need to check on the curve of the bail at the sharpest part turns to go in to the aluminum block. Look for cracks in there. Magnaflux if you want or do a home made style.

Go. Ride. Hard.

[Beckmann AG]

Rossis ?--the mounting disc has their logo on it, and there is no other manuf. markings on it so..?

'Most' Rossignol bindings are made by Emery.

[b0ardski]

Emery?
Pusbag has a Nitro branded version of those rossi's he rode for many years,(he's a light weight.
I have a pair of Nitro stepins that use the same Cast alu. base plate, I broke them last month right were the indents in the plate get close to the center disc Not sure why the indents are there?
The break was user error, I had too long of a mount bolt close to the heel piece which allowed the plate to flex upward on a steep toe side carve. Luckily I felt it and the rubber gasket held long enough to stop (stepin heel stayed on the boot). Used them a couple years with no issues, so if mounted properly and your not an aggressive clydsdale, they should work for you.

[ziolino66]

The "grado di liberta" translates roughly to "degree of freedom/flex" which is what I like about these old Burtons...thanks jacopodotti..un bicchiere..o due, per securo! Everything seems "too expensive" when you're broke (tranne il vino) !
The F2s seem to be a good replacement option. Does anyone know how the Titanium model compares to the Carve RS as far as flex and strength? What about the F2s versus Ibex?
Forgot about yyzcanuck,thanks Puddy Tat, I'll definately check them out when buying new.
Thanks carvedog, good to hear the confidence/encouragement...some of us don't have $ to buy new gear every year..personally I'm putting the bum back in "board/ski-bum"! If I can get new bails, probably do that, meantime..I'll doublecheck those trouble spots. I've heard of NDT, but didn't think there was a do-at-home version?
boardski, thanks and... I've got your replacements if interested!?

[carvedog]

Thanks carvedog, good to hear the confidence/encouragement...some of us don't have $ to buy new gear every year..personally I'm putting the bum back in "board/ski-bum"! If I can get new bails, probably do that, meantime..I'll doublecheck those trouble spots. I've heard of NDT, but didn't think there was a do-at-home version?

The do at home version for me is stick bails in oil ( just the bent part especially not the plastic toe bail)
Take out and dry thoroughly. Stick in flour for a while. Gently shake off and see if there is any clinging to that inside curve.

[jacopodotti]

you could find on ebay.de some proflex freecarve at 35 euro new
light right flex not expensive
f2 titanium are widely used but no titanium at all! only cutted steel quite heavy and expensive but at the end they works well
I think that they are too expensive because as said are made of steel, we used a spettrometer, and plastic
for less than 100 euro more you could get a pair of super eingenired totaly machined wonderfoul td3 made from solid alluminium!
burton now carve company right flex, super light, on ebay.de you could find the for less than 100 euro used pair in good conditions rabanser weight about 100 kilos and use them every day for abou 300 days a year