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Thread: Carbon for dummies

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Carbon for dummies

    I've read some posts where boards are made with carbon. I have a few questions to make sure I understand correctly.

    Can carbone replace metal in a board ?

    What would be the difference between a titanal and a carbon board ?


    On the Kessler site, there is no mention of carbon snowboard.
    On the Oxess site, carbon snowboards are cheaper than the metal ones.
    On the SG site, carbon is part of their boards.
    Stephane

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Pacific Northwest/ Portland Metro Area
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    Sort of apples and oranges.

    Used for different effects. Yes, they can be used together.

    You can have a board with or without either of them, or both.

    Metal = Damper
    Carbon = Spring


    Both pretty light and strong when used correctly.

    Perhaps easier to state what it is you seek?

    Lots of posts on bomber about both materials.
    SEARCHING TIP: go to GOOGLE and add this to the end of your search terms- site:bomberonline.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    near Winnipeg, MB, Canada
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    Carbon = carbon fiber. A google search on carbon fiber will keep you busy for hours.

    Think of fiberglass, but made from strands of Carbon instead of glass. In general, a given amount of carbon is stiffer than fiberglass. Metal is totally different.

    Most boards will have all three materials, plus wood, plus epoxy.
    Corey

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Los Angeles
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    and don't forget rubber, there are some boards (non metal) with a combination of rubber (for dampness) and carbon (for stiffness and/or spring)
    maybe Sean Martin can chime in and explain what each material does by itself and combined with others
    I know I'm not an "awesome carver" but I feel "awesome" when I'm carving

  5. #5
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    Metal is an isotropic material, meaning it has the same mechanical properties in all directions. Any fiber can be woven into an in plane isotropic laminate simply by weaving fibers in at least 3 directions and equally spaced about 360 degrees. Our carbon fiber construction uses such a laminate. We originally developed it to mimic the behavior of a metal board, as titanal is not available wider than 31cm. We frequently build boardercross boards for customers that are wider and these customers are looking for a metal like construction.

    It is possible to generate an in plane isotropic laminate from fiberglass or many other fibers. Such a laminate will generate metal like properties in a board. It is important to note that, it is not the metal that makes boards feel damp the way many people think it does. A board constructed with just metal and a wood core will sounds like a tin can when you tap on it and be very lively on snow. The board will not be terribly durable as the bond to the metal laminates is quite weak. In order to improve the bond strength to the metal it is common to use a thin rubber laminate against the metal. This rubber dramatically enhances the bond strength to the metal with a secondary affect of making the board very damp. It actually has a dull thud sound when you tap it. This dull thud sound is what is normally erroneously associated with a metal construction.

    This same rubber laminate can be used in fiberglass, carbon fiber, or any other constructions to produce very similar results.

    I am not familiar enough with the Oxxess construction to know what laminates they are using, but they do illustrate that it is possible to produce a high performance board that wins at the world cup level without metal.

    Both the Kessler and SG boards incorporate small amounts of carbon fiber as do the Coiler, Prior, and Donek boards. The relative combinations of metal, carbon and rubber can be used to tailor board characteristics. The combination of these materials is well proven and enables the builder to tailor many key characteristics.

    I think the original poster asked what are the differences between a metal board and one constructed with no metal but just carbon as a reinforcing material. There really isn't an good answer to this. I think the real answer is in the builder's personality and what could be termed his boards DNA. Many things can be accomplished with a number of materials. The key is whether the builders personality or the personality he has engineered into the board fits you. Engineering different board personalities is a new goal for us. Our proteus and REV are the first in this endeavor to create offerings outside our normal approach to board characteristics. Reading the technical information a builder provides is the first step in trying to interpret how the board performs compared to others. Demoing or talking with friends who have ridden specific boards is another. Discussing your likes and dislikes with your board builder is likely the most effective method of determining what will work for you.
    Sean Martin - president/founder
    Donek Snowboards Inc.
    smartin@donek.com
    www.donek.com
    phone:877-53-DONEK

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Obviously after that Sean spoke there is nothing technic to add.
    Rumors use to say that is very important who is the builder of metal boards because unfortunately they tends to delaminate.
    I could only speak about the surely long tested boards that has no problems that as I've heard are Donek and Tropical Tube for other boards I cannot / don't want to say a word in a direction or the other.
    http://www.carvers.it/

    You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

  7. #7
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    Sean, thanks for the good info.
    Stephane

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