Buttermilk's Tiehack area is getting a new high-speed quad lift

[Mellow Yellow]

FYI

ASPEN, CO -- The Aspen Skiing Co. is investing more than $27 million into its mountains this summer, adding new restaurants, a ski lift and mountain biking trails. Work has begun at Buttermilk, Snowmass and Highlands, and is expected to be completed by opening day of the 2011-12 ski season.

Buttermilk's Tiehack area is getting a new high-speed quad lift. This $7 million chairlift will replace both the Upper Tiehack and Hgle Hill chairs. The new “Tiehack Express” will take skiers 1,640 vertical feet to the top in seven minutes. It’s slated to be finished by mid-October.

[kjl]

And thus ends the least crowded, best carving runs evar

[Mike T]

And thus ends the least crowded, best carving runs evar

At the most recent SES, they were NOT the best carving runs ever, as half of them were not even groomed. Buttermilk was kinda frustrating this year, soft snow and only the falt runs groomed... if they groom all the Tiehack runs in order to showcase the new lift, I probably won't complain about an uptick in traffic.

I mean, when has traffic at the Milk *ever* been a real problem? It's so wide open. The only "traffic" I've ever seen anywhere on that hill is other SESers, over three different years.

[John Gilmour]

It was the lack of uphill capacity and slower lifts that kept the snow in great shape... They shouldn't do this. It made it possible for people visiting Aspen even for a short period of time.. to ensure they got some Powder WITH SUN!

It'll be tracked out same gloomy day of the storm now.

[thomas]

FYI

Buttermilk's Tiehack area is getting a new high-speed quad lift. This $7 million chairlift will replace both the Upper Tiehack and Hgle Hill chairs. The new “Tiehack Express” will take skiers 1,640 vertical feet to the top in seven minutes. It’s slated to be finished by mid-October.

Now there is a reason to come back to SES 2012!

[queequeg]

Meh. I'm a fan of this. I hardly ever go over to tiehack even though the carving is better over there, because I can't stand that slow double chair. Noplace in Aspen is crowded by any standard other than Aspen's, so I'm really not concerned about tiehack turning into Mardi-Gras + Times Square or anything. Maybe there will be a few more people but to my mind the positives outweigh the negatives.

[Pat Donnelly]

Anyone remember how the landscape change forever when COPPER installed the Super Bee six-pack?

If this were happening at ALTA, I am sure management would run the chair at a reduced speed OR load every 2nd or 3rd chair to preserve the conditions for their riders.

[Mellow Yellow]

Meh. I'm a fan of this. I hardly ever go over to tiehack even though the carving is better over there, because I can't stand that slow double chair. Noplace in Aspen is crowded by any standard other than Aspen's, so I'm really not concerned about tiehack turning into Mardi-Gras + Times Square or anything. Maybe there will be a few more people but to my mind the positives outweigh the negatives.

I try to stay away from buttersmooth in general....

Agreed...come to NC or most ECoast resorts if you want true CROWDS

[Helmut Karvlow]

And thus ends the least crowded, best carving runs evar

Haaaaaa Haaaaaaa, what are you talking about!!!!!!!! it is Buttermilk, errr, old Man's mountain right.......what do you care Machines don't ride lifts!!!!

[GV27]

Anyone remember how the landscape change forever when COPPER installed the Super Bee six-pack?

If this were happening at ALTA, I am sure management would run the chair at a reduced speed OR load every 2nd or 3rd chair to preserve the conditions for their riders.

You're being sarcastic, right?

[kjl]

Haaaaaa Haaaaaaa, what are you talking about!!!!!!!! it is Buttermilk, errr, old Man's mountain right.......what do you care Machines don't ride lifts!!!!

In my many years spent among you humans, I have learned to feel pain, and also to ride lifts.

[johnasmo]

I like it. Having best pitches with worst lift wasn't good value for your lift $$$. Maybe now we can finally get more than 35K vertical in a day.

[kjl]

I like it. Having best pitches with worst lift wasn't good value for your lift $$$. Maybe now we can finally get more than 35K vertical in a day.

I think my main problem with it is that it decreases variety. There are already a million billion runs that are kinda-sorta crowded (but not really, because it's Aspen) but perfect carving runs, fed by high speed lifts. You can ride Ruthies all day, or any of the runs on Big Burn or Sheer Bliss (and lots of others) at Snowmass, or loop Gunbarrel or Goldenhorn/Thunderbowl at Highlands or whatever. If you were the kind of person that wanted a truly empty run with the trade off of having a really slow lift, you could do that by going to Tiehack, but not anymore -- now Tiehack will be just like all those other runs.

[queequeg]

now Tiehack will be just like all those other runs.

I doubt it. It might be *slightly* more crowed while the session is going on because there will be more carvers on the runs but, it seems like most people in aspen stay away from buttermilk due to the general lack of variety and excitement there, and I don't think that's going to change much just because of one lift. It will get a tiny bit more crowed but I suspect it will still be mostly empty except for other carvers while we are there —*particularly if you remain on the tiehack parkway trail longer and opt to go down racers edge and javelin rather than the earlier turn-offs (or turn-ons, as it may be).

[softbootsailer]

Here is a Pic of work going on on Tiehack... I am so Stoked!
7 min. for a T to B :- )
I have been here for 25 years now and the old lift drove me Nuts! There has never been a crowd here except SES and
a few Races during the season... All the Good Skiers and Boarders ride the other 3 Mts., thank you very much


You can Help if you want be sending the Ski Co. an E-Mail supporting additional grooming needed.
Please stay in a Positive Zone if You decide to Help...

http://www.aspensnowmass.com/contactus.cfm

Thanks

[heroshmero]

Are they replacing or reusing the existing lift towers?

[softbootsailer]

Are they replacing or reusing the existing lift towers?

All New... they are cutting the Top down 12 ft. so that it will be easier as well to head down Tiehack from the Summit Express chair, a new Patrol building is also included in this summers schedule... 1 day of Non Stops will equal 53,000 vertical if you eat lunch on the chair...

[John Gilmour]

I do know this...... slow lifts...typically discourage lessons because you can't give your students much vertical per hour...and of course... management encourages you to take the faster lift when teaching to promote a "Sense of perceived Value" ie.. more runs per hour.

So say hello to tons of "pizza french fries" (errr. advanced beginners) on what were once empty slopes.. Aspen seeing this likely as a revenue stream for teaching. Think... ruined... for part of February and All of March.

The only real benefit that I see-
is that parents could take lessons on the Tiehack side while their toddlers were at Buttermilk- perhaps we would see fewer people on Aspen Mt. as a result.

The most annoying thing I ever see- and dangerous are IDIOT PARENTS that get sick of Buttermilk and drag their kids down RUTHIES run...endangering their kids and others with a slow zig zag - in limited visibility sections.... Which I have seen happen Wayyyy too many times- ending in total yard sales for the kids when they get hit or can not control their speed. I don't see that AT ALL as an accomplishment for a kid... just as a Moron Badge for the parent. If parents want their kids to go down Ruthies... they should not cheap out...and should enroll them in ski racing programs.

But mark my words.... the lesson snakes with the red jacket at the front -will be going down Buttermilk's Javelin trail. Better than Ruthies... but not by much.

[softbootsailer]

I do know this...... slow lifts...typically discourage lessons because you can't give your students much vertical per hour...and of course... management encourages you to take the faster lift when teaching to promote a "Sense of perceived Value" ie.. more runs per hour.

So say hello to tons of "pizza french fries" (errr. advanced beginners) on what were once empty slopes.. Aspen seeing this likely as a revenue stream for teaching. Think... ruined... for part of February and All of March.

The only real benefit that I see-
is that parents could take lessons on the Tiehack side while their toddlers were at Buttermilk- perhaps we would see fewer people on Aspen Mt. as a result.

The most annoying thing I ever see- and dangerous are IDIOT PARENTS that get sick of Buttermilk and drag their kids down RUTHIES run...endangering their kids and others with a slow zig zag - in limited visibility sections.... Which I have seen happen Wayyyy too many times- ending in total yard sales for the kids when they get hit or can not control their speed. I don't see that AT ALL as an accomplishment for a kid... just as a Moron Badge for the parent. If parents want their kids to go down Ruthies... they should not cheap out...and should enroll them in ski racing programs.

But mark my words.... the lesson snakes with the red jacket at the front -will be going down Buttermilk's Javelin trail. Better than Ruthies... but not by much.

If and when you come back John, You can Stay on Aspen Mt.

[softbootsailer]

This is an Opportunity...

Fact

The Grooming at Tiehack has been in decline every single year since the mid 90's

Why not try and let the Ski Co. know that with the new lift and a return to the Grooming of the mid 90's
that you would look forward to going there, perhaps more often...

This is simple stuff and some intent could make a difference

thanks

[softbootsailer]

If you wrote once Thanks



http://www.aspensnowmass.com/contactus.cfm

[*Ace*]

Tiehack is fun and all, but I would want a 'Carving Zone' to be permanently set up on Ruthies!!!

[softbootsailer]

This could be a way to increase the Grooming there ?

It is thought of now as X Games, Terrain Parks and a Beginning Skiers and or Boarders area and that is exactly why it is so deserted on that Tiehack side... which is nice for Carving turns across the runs without getting jammed from above...

[softbootsailer]

Carving would not just Tolerated there

[John Gilmour]

I just think we are such a minority.

[John Gilmour]

As quickly as many towns have set up skateboard parks... they have also banned it on the streets. With the excuse of " You have a place to use your skateboard now".

It would be horrible..... if we had such a carving zone... and say there were 3 carving related accidents in a week and ALL CARVING was relegated to Tiehack.


Not saying it would happen.... but I could see such a thing happening.

Here's how a lawyer might try to pursue it...

Well in the case of my client's 8 year old child, she was hit at very high speed by a "Carving Snowboarder" and is now paralyzed. Aspen Ski co has a carving park where this specific type of riding is allowed.. In the same fashion that Terrain Parks give a place for that type of riding. Aspen was negligent in policing the area and keeping that type of high speed lateral racing out of the family areas. If these fellows want to race- they should be a in a race league with a designated race area and not using family slopes for their activity. (Don't even try to explain that carving is not racing to a corporate bureaucrat.)

And Boom..... we are stuck at Tiehack. We can Skid/scrape all 4 Mountains but only carve at speed at Tiehack..and not even Buttermilk.

I watched a similar thing happen in Central Park ...we used to set up slalom courses where ever we wanted..... we might be asked to take them down if it got busy...but it was tolerated. Then I set up at Tavern on the Green..and everything was great... after a few years, Central Park offered us about 100 gate barracades for safety - to create a special area(city Budget surplus) even though we had never had an accident. Of course... we accepted.

Then when we tried to set up more advanced (and even Beginner) courses on other hills, we were IMMEDIATELY told to remove them- didn't even get to ride for a single run - being told "There is a designated place for you to slalom- by Tavern on the Green, you've got your place"

When Budget cuts came, and the gate barricade set up were cut, we were told we could not slalom AT ALL, and NOT SET UP CONES AT ALL, because it would not be safe without a designated area.



How about just ask for better grooming ONLY and Softbootsailor continues to work on his 3 strap binding to make softboot bindings that work for carving by reducing ankle flexion

[softbootsailer]

As quickly as many towns have set up skateboard parks... they have also banned it on the streets. With the excuse of " You have a place to use your skateboard now".

It would be horrible..... if we had such a carving zone... and say there were 3 carving related accidents in a week and ALL CARVING was relegated to Tiehack.


Not saying it would happen.... but I could see such a thing happening.

Here's how a lawyer might try to pursue it...

Well in the case of my client's 8 year old child, she was hit at very high speed by a "Carving Snowboarder" and is now paralyzed. Aspen Ski co has a carving park where this specific type of riding is allowed.. In the same fashion that Terrain Parks give a place for that type of riding. Aspen was negligent in policing the area and keeping that type of high speed lateral racing out of the family areas. If these fellows want to race- they should be a in a race league with a designated race area and not using family slopes for their activity. (Don't even try to explain that carving is not racing to a corporate bureaucrat.)

And Boom..... we are stuck at Tiehack. We can Skid/scrape all 4 Mountains but only carve at speed at Tiehack..and not even Buttermilk.

I watched a similar thing happen in Central Park ...we used to set up slalom courses where ever we wanted..... we might be asked to take them down if it got busy...but it was tolerated. Then I set up at Tavern on the Green..and everything was great... after a few years, Central Park offered us about 100 gate barracades for safety - to create a special area(city Budget surplus) even though we had never had an accident. Of course... we accepted.

Then when we tried to set up more advanced (and even Beginner) courses on other hills, we were IMMEDIATELY told to remove them- didn't even get to ride for a single run - being told "There is a designated place for you to slalom- by Tavern on the Green, you've got your place"

When Budget cuts came, and the gate barricade set up were cut, we were told we could not slalom AT ALL, and NOT SET UP CONES AT ALL, because it would not be safe without a designated area.



How about just ask for better grooming ONLY and Softbootsailor continues to work on his 3 strap binding to make softboot bindings that work for carving by reducing ankle flexion

Everyone just ask for better Grooming then... Thanks John

[John E]

I'm with Ken on this one. There are plenty of places with high-speed lifts to carve. If the slow lift kept people away, fine with me. Guess that makes me "old school".

At Loveland where I do most of my riding, they don't have any high speed lifts. There replacing an old 2 person lift with a newer 3 person (but not detachable) lift. Most people zoom right past Loveland on their way to Summit County - maybe because of the slow lifts.

At nearby Winter Park, they've replaced nearly all of their slow fixed-grip lifts with new high-speed detachables. As many as 6 person lifts. As a result, when it gets just a bit windy, they shut the lifts down. They never used to shut the lifts down. At Loveland, I don't recall them ever shutting the lifts down for wind (and it can get REALLY windy there).

At the end of the day, if I'm tired (and I usually am), it doesn't matter if I had ridden high or low speed lifts all day. However, I realize that this is another instance where it doesn't matter what I think.

[John Gilmour]

I'm with Ken on this one. There are plenty of places with high-speed lifts to carve. If the slow lift kept people away, fine with me. Guess that makes me "old school".

At Loveland where I do most of my riding, they don't have any high speed lifts. There replacing an old 2 person lift with a newer 3 person (but not detachable) lift. Most people zoom right past Loveland on their way to Summit County - maybe because of the slow lifts.

At nearby Winter Park, they've replaced nearly all of their slow fixed-grip lifts with new high-speed detachables. As many as 6 person lifts. As a result, when it gets just a bit windy, they shut the lifts down. They never used to shut the lifts down. At Loveland, I don't recall them ever shutting the lifts down for wind (and it can get REALLY windy there).

At the end of the day, if I'm tired (and I usually am), it doesn't matter if I had ridden high or low speed lifts all day. However, I realize that this is another instance where it doesn't matter what I think.

What I find is that the snow can stay nicer longer with slow lifts as fewer people go down. So if you are waiting for the sun to come out and soften it a bit... well it isn't all tracked out by the time the sun comes. And with powder on pow days... there is more time for tracks to fill in.

However, if you only have an hour or two to ride... well high speed lifts can make your day. I also don't get raccooned as much with high speed lifts like I do with slow speed ones. In some ways that was ok..since I never get sunburnt and the sun would make some leave early. As lifts have southern exposure on Northern faces.

In regards to the grooming at Buttermilk....did anyone find out if any of the original grooming crew was there from '95? What changed? I do remember footage of perfect overlapping seamless grooming from some older carving clips (anyone have any of that to post up?)

[softbootsailer]

I Skied Aspen Mt. from 68 to 83 then Boarded at Highlands for couple weeks in 84 and in 85 on to Buttermilk full seasons

I have been there the last 26 years with 70 days being the least amount of days per season spent there... It is my Favorite place to Carve as I do not have to worry about people coming up behind me there as I go side to side...any of the other 3 Mts. and you had better pay attention... I was hit on Aspen Mt. this year by a Snowboarder and at Highlands by a Ski Patrolman both said why are you going down the Run like that? Copper or Spar enough times and your going to get smacked...

One more time!

The X Games, all the terrain parks and the fact that Buttermilk is considered a beginners area is WHY TIEHACK is NOT CROWDED!!!!!!!!!!!! and the Grooming crews are not the same as 95 or 2000 or 2005 for that matter and there is less grooming done on Tiehack now and last season than ever before... I know at least a 100 people who have asked them to Groom more of Tiehack and they have cut rather than increased the grooming there... People who came to Carve there years ago from all over the planet for a month or so stopped coming 10 years ago... because of the lack of Grooming!

This new Lift is Great, The elevation as well as exposure on Tiehack wrecks the powder by 11:00 on sunny days anyway...
so to go up in 7 min. is Wonderful and hopefully with a footrest... and with this much money being spent by the Ski Co. and
people saying how Stoked they are and that more Grooming would be an additional reason to hang out there, what is the problem?