Plan-B Plate, by BlueB

[BlueB]

Pic, as promissed...
Hole in the plate allows for the leash to go to the board directly. I've got space for 2 more holes, for total weight reduction of 5 oz. Pretty hard to hole-saw through the all composites though, so I probably will not do it.

[BlueB]

Sorry folks - pow day today,
Plate didn't get out to play...

[valsam]

Hey BlueB is that a generics IQ?I have a 1,70 and it is pretty soft,11,8scr, turns tight and generally is easy to ride?
Are there any benefits of using a plate on a glass board like that?

[BlueB]

Yes, its IQ170. In my opinion it's quite a stiff board, compared to what I ride nowadays. Not super stiff, but stiffer then most of my metals. It used to be one of my favorites and it's still in the quiver as a backup...
Benefit of the plate is that EVERY board rides smoother. There's a lot more on this topic in the Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems thread, see what the others, who tried plate on old glass boards, had to say.

[KingCrimson]

Looking sharp Boris!

Since you seem rather set on using plastics for your pivots, (for weight reasons?) why haven't you used something like fiber impregnated nylon?

Since those threaded holes experience a lot of sheer loads as the board flexes, I think it would be way stronger to have something like fiberglass running around.

This is on top of the scary plastic threads.

O/T: I started drawing up and making plywood models of bow-wave cheating skiffs. Fun stuff!

[valsam]

Yes, its IQ170. In my opinion it's quite a stiff board, compared to what I ride nowadays. Not super stiff, but stiffer then most of my metals. It used to be one of my favorites and it's still in the quiver as a backup...
Benefit of the plate is that EVERY board rides smoother. There's a lot more on this topic in the Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems thread, see what the others, who tried plate on old glass boards, had to say.

Well since we seam to have another board in common the elan ballistic 171 which seams to me much more stiffer and with allot of more pop why don't you try the plate on that board too and tell me if its worth getting a plate for my quiver which is glass boards only!

[lowrider]

Valsam you will not regret using a plate on any of your glass boards. Aside from performance improvement your knees will enjoy the suspension.

[BlueB]

Since you seem rather set on using plastics for your pivots, (for weight reasons?) why haven't you used something like fiber impregnated nylon?
Since those threaded holes experience a lot of sheer loads as the board flexes, I think it would be way stronger to have something like fiberglass running around.
This is on top of the scary plastic threads.

We use UHMDPE in super yach industry for many purposes, some of the stuff being quite serious. Also I've built mast bearings (self stayed) out of it and it outperformed aluminum by far. Fibreglass as such has very poor thread retention - when we've got a situation like that in boatbuilding, we use the stuf called G10. Impregnated Nylon could be pretty good. I had UHMDPE already, so I used it for the prototype. So far, it performed great. Later models, Good knows what else I might use...

[BlueB]

Well since we seam to have another board in common the elan ballistic 171 which seams to me much more stiffer and with allot of more pop why don't you try the plate on that board too and tell me if its worth getting a plate for my quiver which is glass boards only!

I agree that Ballistic is stiffer board. Unfortunatelly, I can not try this particular plate on it, as it's built wider then the board itself. Why don't you build your own plate and tell us how it worked out?

[KingCrimson]

We use UHMDPE in super yach industry for many purposes, some of the stuff being quite serious. Also I've built mast bearings (self stayed) out of it and it outperformed aluminum by far. Fibreglass as such has very poor thread retention - when we've got a situation like that in boatbuilding, we use the stuf called G10. Impregnated Nylon could be pretty good. I had UHMDPE already, so I used it for the prototype. So far, it performed great. Later models, Good knows what else I might use...

Forgot about mast bearings, Nacra 20's use PE balls for their mast rotators. And they squeak like hell when they get old and start sticking. They are threaded directly onto the dolphin striker, but the loading is always in compression.

I'm a little bit confused when you say fiberglass has bad thread retention but G10 does not- I've made some folding knife handles from several grades of Garolite, and the G10 grade of Garolite is just glass and epoxy (and a PITA to work with compared to the phenolic-resin grades)

Can't say I've played around with glass made with polyester or vinylester, is this what you mean when you refer to bad thread retention?

Why don't you just countersink the underside of the plate and stuff a nut inside? That seems like such cheap insurance, especially compared to threading PE. Unless of course threads are stronger, I just don't know.

G10 and FR4 would certainly look bitchin' for those mounts!

[BlueB]

I'm a little bit confused when you say fiberglass has bad thread retention but G10 does not- I've made some folding knife handles from several grades of Garolite, and the G10 grade of Garolite is just glass and epoxy (and a PITA to work with compared to the phenolic-resin grades)

Epoxy is one part of the answer. Glass is laid in interchanging layers of 45/45 and 90/0. Whole thing is cured under high pressure and baked. For more info or callculations, I'd have to refer you to our structural engineer - one of the leading composites guys on the West Coast.

[KingCrimson]

Epoxy is one part of the answer. Glass is laid in interchanging layers of 45/45 and 90/0. Whole thing is cured under high pressure and baked. For more info or callculations, I'd have to refer you to our structural engineer - one of the leading composites guys on the West Coast.

Thanks for the explanation, I never noticed the layup. I like the semi-practical information available on BOL.

Can I ask if there's a specific reason you want to thread the material instead of t-nutting? Trying to do some brain picking, I want to make my own.

[BlueB]

At the time of making, it looked important to be able to flip the pivot block, which nut wouldn't allow. Also, it looked simpler and less parts. Finally, i get the built in prevention from the screw backing up, like a nylon lock-nut.
When everyone started stating that it will strip, I decided to see if I can brake it

As I mentioned before, the next plate to slider/pivot block connection might be completelly different...

[valsam]

I agree that Ballistic is stiffer board. Unfortunatelly, I can not try this particular plate on it, as it's built wider then the board itself. Why don't you build your own plate and tell us how it worked out?

I will try to make me a plate but the lazy way!
I am thinking if there are already existing parts that would work for a plate like let's say the sliding mechanism,there must be surely something out there that is used in other devices that would work,maybe something from a kitchen drawer or a closet ,anyone any ideas?

[jacopodotti]

Tryed already tio find something , but what I've found is usually or too weak or too big.
if you find something please post it.

[BlueB]

No damages after more riding today!

I focused a bit more on what the plate is doing and concluded that it's flexing a lot! Even when just standing clipped in the bindings, I can produce some bending and teter-totter effect, just by pushing and squeezing my boot cufs.

Virus Vampire wasn't the best board to put the plate on - it's a bit narrower then the plate itself, causing the "plate-out" on high inclined heel sides...

Sorry, no dual Kessler test today, either, due to some technical problems (with Kesslers, not the plate). Maybe next Tuesday...

[Rob Stevens]

Ridden with Tippie yet, Boris?
Not sure if you've met Brett, but he comes up there alot and is a really good hardbooter.
He can help you test your plate and you can help him find his keys.

[xy9ine]

tippie is a hardbooter? too rad! though i do seem to recall him being involved w/ competitive snowboard of some sort back in the pre fro days. schley as well, i thought...

[BlueB]

I don't think I met Brett... However, Carlos, ex-Banf L4, is on our staff now!

[BlueB]

I had private request for photos of Virus with the plate. Here it is:

[Rob Stevens]

Carlo... Nice. He is high quality. You'll enjoy his company.
Tippie... OG hardbooter. National team and could hang with all the late 80's, early 90's Whistler rads of the day, all-terrain, in HB mode. Schley..? Skier.
Really. Track him down and ride with him. He has a pass, so he's up there alot.
I want you to put a steel insert in your mounts, too. Even if it's for someone else using it later, who doesn't have the refined control an older gentleman shredder might.

Just sayin'...

[*Ace*]

I am not sure I see the overhang that might cause you 'plate out'.

I have seen both the Bomber plate and the Donek plate in action and they boh flex, they are not rock solid rigid. From what I have been told a little flex is good.

Good work pioneering your own plate, keep up with the reviews.

Have a big test to really punish it.

[BlueB]

Ace,
It might not look to much on the pic, but it's there... When the board cuts the trench, the plate (and the heads of axles screws) come to the contact with snow. I had similar with Vist Plate on a too narrow board in dense slush - huge side surface of Vist planed on high inclinations.
What is a BIG test? Running into a tree?

Rob,
"Older Gentleman"
Should I take it as compliment, insult, or just friendly ribbing How much younger, or older, are you? (I'm 41, but look "nicely worn in")
Is Tippie maybe invloved with Cypress Ski Club? If yes, I might actually know him...
Yeah, I bonded with Carlo right away, at Staff Orientation. He'll try few of my alpine boards when his Winds are back from Banf. I'll try his No-Board when conditions are right. Hell, I might even try the plate on No-Board!

[*Ace*]

Ha, nice one.
I meant to say have a big guy test it. Really puts a pounding on the hardware.

[BlueB]

I'm close to 190, nowadays - picked few pounds over the summer. Next volunteer is Scooby, he's just over 200, I guess, but is known as gear (and self) breaker. Unfortunatelly, our ultimate board bender, who punishes the boards by 240lbs of doom, has retired from snowboarding...

[Bora20]

I am 215 Boris

[CarvingScooby]

Next week after Blueb tested on KST 185 back to back with and w/o plate, will use my 205 lbs w/o gears on several decks.

RT

[colintkemp]

If you guys have a few burgers and beers each day for the next few days you might be able to put on a bit more weight. Given the important scientific testing - and all the peer review - going on here, you might consider the benefit this would have to supporting the validity of the plate testing. Very helpful data...

[BlueB]

Plate past the ultimate test, today. All that fooling with with Ace and "run into a tree" concept almost came true...

Anyways, here's what happened: I had it on my Kessler KST 185, in variety of crappy conditions. I went full speed over the handlebars, full cartweel over the nose. Bord delamed and bent and titanal cracked just ahead of the plate... However, there are 0 signs of stress on the hardware. Board broke before it, surprise, surprise. Therefore, I declare the Plan-B Plate safe to ride for other test pilots. Scooby will have a go next week.

Other then destruction of the board, I had a fair comparative test on: my KST 185 with Plate and TD2s, Scooby's KST 185 with TD3s only. Conditions were pretty funny - strange snow that you get after mixed precipitation and poor grooming, chunks, cookies, ridges...
Findings:
- Plated board was definitelly smoother to ride
- Plateless board offered more "feel" for what's going on under
- Plateless board had better handling and initiation
- Driver had more guts on Plateless board (function of largley disproportionate milage on 2 systems)
- Plated board still can be skid at will and stopped pretty much like plateless board
.

[lowrider]

Sorry for your loss, congrats on being one of the first to trash a board with a plate you will now be in the record books. Is this strictly a top sheet delam or did it do further damage to boards core.I think this will be a topic of discussion for some time to come as we push boards to new limits with plates of all makes.