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Thread: Plan-B Plate, by BlueB

  1. #1
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    Plan-B Plate, by BlueB

    In the summer of 2009 I started building a floating system similar to Hangl, which evolved into an all-aluminum single plate, similar to Karl’s. I ran into some troubles machining the aluminum with my limited tools, etc. Then, the rumours and pictures of Apex started surfacing. It culminated in JJ’s golden run at the Olympics. The rest is history…

    So, after going back and forth with various hardware concepts, I finally settled for one.
    And here it is, the Plan-B!



    Or, you could call it “Bling on Bling… on Bling”.

    Hardware is simple, mostly UHMDPE, few screws, a bit of Neoprene…



    I achieved a universal mounting base, that would fit onto UPM pattern and on standard 4x4 pattern, without any adapters.



    Pivoting point is drilled with 5mm offset, giving the 10mm adjustment to overcame the difference of 4x4 (4x2) pattern and 30mm UPM pattern. Simple flip does it.



    Slider slots are made slightly oversized for self micro adjustment.





    And, to answer someone’s question from another tread: Yes, the plate can carve on its own, too!



    Testing, testing… Nice uniform flex in the board, no flex in the plate. Smooth action of the sliders.



    A bit more of bling:




    So where to, from here?

    For starters, I need some more snow…

    Next generation hardware will have nicer axle bolts and no lock nuts. The tread will be incorporated to the mounting base.

    Next generation plate will be a proper, purpose designed, laminated plate, rather then a butchered old board. The sliders/pivots might be attached to it slightly different…

    But, snow first.
    Last edited by BlueB; November 3rd, 2010 at 10:16 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Great job!
    http://www.carvers.it/

    You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

  3. #3
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    Thumbs up Nice Work!

    Another project well done...If you need a 200Lbs tester...

    U have the time for the 3rd Project before season start?

    Cheers
    RT

  4. #4
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    B plate

    This is pretty scary looking design for my taste.

  5. #5
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    that's awesome! what's the plate? an old prior metal? the gearhead in me really wants to try one of these newfangled things...

  6. #6
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    Looks nice boris - how much does it weigh?
    -queequeg

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladia View Post
    This is pretty scary looking design for my taste.
    What is the sceriest thing that can happen? If the hardware failed, I'd end up with a plate attached to my boots in a solid A frame configuration - safe. There is nothing that would brake the board, either. Few days of work invested in the hardware and few $ is the biggest loss that can happen...
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by queequeg View Post
    Looks nice boris - how much does it weigh?
    Thanks. I didn't weigh it prior to mounting, my bad. It's very light though. I'll weight it next time I remove it from the board.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarvingScooby View Post
    U have the time for the 3rd Project before season start?
    No point making another one before we tested this... The idea is to set your Kes with TD3s only vs. mine with plate and give it a go. Then we'll do Hangle vs. plate, then Vist Vs. plate. By the time we're done with all of that, we'll have the idea of the beneffits and durabillity.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boarder_Ted View Post
    Is there sufficient clearance between the board and plate? Or between the plate slider blocks and the board? Also, you just threaded the UHMDPE for the bolts into the slider and pivot blocks? Also stiffened the entire plate with a strip of maple. It was really flexy before that.
    Enough clearance on both sides.
    It is really stiff as is, there was no need reinforcing. Probably because I left the edges on and didn't cut a waist into it.
    Yes, tread right into UHMDPE. 20mm of it - looked ample to me. My logic is that most of the forces are down into it, rather then pull. We'll see when the snow is here. Version 2 might have a completelly different slider attaching system.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueB View Post
    Enough clearance on both sides.
    It is really stiff as is, there was no need reinforcing. Probably because I left the edges on and didn't cut a waist into it.
    Yes, tread right into UHMDPE. 20mm of it - looked ample to me. My logic is that most of the forces are down into it, rather then pull. We'll see when the snow is here. Version 2 might have a completelly different slider attaching system.
    You're applying a moment or twisting force to the board when you put it on edge. The lifting force you generate will likely bend your plastic dramatically. You're relying on the plastic alone, without a solid shaft, to support this load. Watch my video on destructive testing. Do some carpet riding and look at it critically. I think you have something that is potentially very dangerous here. If you do put it on snow, go really slow and disassemble repeatedly.

    In destructive testing I was able to bend solid shafts at much lower forces than can be present with a great deal more support than you have here.
    Sean Martin - president/founder
    Donek Snowboards Inc.
    smartin@donek.com
    www.donek.com
    phone:877-53-DONEK

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueB View Post
    Enough clearance on both sides.
    It is really stiff as is, there was no need reinforcing. Probably because I left the edges on and didn't cut a waist into it.
    Yes, tread right into UHMDPE. 20mm of it - looked ample to me. My logic is that most of the forces are down into it, rather then pull. We'll see when the snow is here. Version 2 might have a completelly different slider attaching system.
    You're applying a moment or twisting force to the board when you put it on edge. The lifting force you generate will likely bend your plastic dramatically. You're relying on the plastic alone, without a solid shaft, to support this load. Watch my video on destructive testing. Do some carpet riding and look at it critically. I think you have something that is potentially very dangerous here. If you do put it on snow, go really slow and disassemble repeatedly.

    In destructive testing I was able to bend solid shafts at much lower forces than can be present with a great deal more support than you have here.

    Just remember that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In other words, the snow pushing up on your edge has to be supported by an equal force/moment applied to the opposite side of the board.
    Sean Martin - president/founder
    Donek Snowboards Inc.
    smartin@donek.com
    www.donek.com
    phone:877-53-DONEK

  13. #13
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    Thanks Sean.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueB View Post
    What is the sceriest thing that can happen? If the hardware failed, I'd end up with a plate attached to my boots in a solid A frame configuration - safe. There is nothing that would brake the board, either. Few days of work invested in the hardware and few $ is the biggest loss that can happen...
    I can't believe you are not considering the possibility of your potential slope torpedo taking out someone else... or someone else's kid.
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  15. #15
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    Good point.
    Leash to an anchor point in free inserts.
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  16. #16
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    Leash?

    Kids should all be on a leash.Or do you mean the plate? My kids all healed real quick after letting them loose on my contraptions. All three are instructors so i must not have scared it all out of them. Yet ! Nice job on the plate Blue B finish off the edge with some coloured tape or something or the ski patrol might chase you out of the lift line before you get to try it !

  17. #17
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    Nice work - some concerns.

    Hi Blue B,
    Nice to see some more DIY plate makers / designs coming out of the woodwork.

    Like Sean Martin, I wouldn't trust steel machine screws in a UHMWPE thread. The plastic "creeps" or stretches under a load. In my own DIY version, everything had an SS nut on the other end, plus Loc-Tite.

    You could fairly easily inset a pair of T-nuts on the underside of each lateral block as a solution and still maintain the same clearance.

    SunSurfer
    Alan McKenzie (a.k.a. SunSurfer)

  18. #18
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    Hi Sean
    Could you post the link of the "video on destructive testing" ?
    Thanks
    J
    http://www.carvers.it/

    You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacopodotti View Post
    Hi Sean
    Could you post the link of the "video on destructive testing" ?
    Thanks
    J
    http://www.youtube.com/user/doneksno.../5/PPJSRW7h2VU

    Sean's got lots of cool videos, watch all of them if you have time.

  20. #20
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    Maiden voyage!

    PBP had it's first trip to the hill today! On a Kessler 185, of course.
    Conditions were very cold (-14C), hero groom, with heaps of man made dry pow at lot of places. Some bumping up later in the day.
    After few runs on easy slopes, I rode it mostly down the Olympic PGS run (can't even think of a better test place!), pretty fast and hard. Deliberatly searched for bumpier places to hit. I even had few good crashes, one quite hard. Everything is still in one piece, without any signs of stress or loosening. I'll dismantle it tomorrow to see the hidden parts...

    As for the ride, it does everything that I red about the plates - smooth, crazy edge setting power, vibration free. Did I mention smooooth?

    Weight, on unsuported chair lift, felt less then a smaller board with Vist (just from my memory). Exact weight comming tomorrow, after the dismantling.
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  21. #21
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    Cheek muscles sore from grinning all day ?

  22. #22
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    Like an excited puppy
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  23. #23
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    First total inspection

    Everything dissembled and checked, no visible failures or stress marks, all looks sound and safe for another day of testing. No problems detected with the threads in UHMDPE.
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  24. #24
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    Weight

    Quote Originally Posted by queequeg View Post
    Looks nice boris - how much does it weigh?
    Whole thing weighs 4 lbs 9 oz. Hardware alone, including the plate bolts, 1 lb 8 oz.
    Plate will get a bit lighter when I drill one or more oversized holes for the leash to go directly onto the board. Will post the update when done.

    Just as a refference, my pair of TD2s with TD3 elastomers weigs 4 lbs 6oz.
    Last edited by BlueB; November 24th, 2010 at 10:02 PM. Reason: added the title
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  25. #25
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    What about the weight?
    http://www.carvers.it/

    You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

  26. #26
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    Excellent job Boris, very impressive.

    About the only thing I would change if you can, is to move your white blocks toward each other on the board to the sets of factory inserts that are closest to each other (the farthest back on the front insert pack, and farthest forward on the rear insert pack). This would encourage the board to flex even more.

    You could also loose some weight by strategically drilling some holes in the plate with a hole saw and using titanium fasteners instead of steel.

    Once again, impressive. Thanks for sharing.


    Dave R.


    "Alcohol. The cause and solution to all of lifes' problems." Homer J. Simpson


  27. #27
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    Nice job!

    So, lessee, you have designed and built boats, yachts, modded your Dalbellos for BTS, AND built yourself a racing plate?

    Holy smokes Boris, is there anything you can't do?


    Crazy McGuyver skill, bro.


    Geo
    A carver's haiku-

    My board's a scalpel,
    To carve deep ruts in the snow,
    Is my destiny.

  28. #28
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    Thanks guys! Few more test days by myself, to prove it safe, and then the plate would be available to other test volunteers.

    Dave,
    Yes, I can set the axles closer together. In the beggining I was thinking like you, that narrowest axles' spacing might be the best. After reading the reports from the other builders/testers, it seems that majority is striving for even more space then what I've got in the pics... Even as is, it makes the board feel a bit softer then riding in classic way.
    And yes, it will get a minimum of one holesawed hole, for the leash to get through, to the board itself.
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  29. #29
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    Blue B

    Hello, I am curious in an above post someone said something about how you modified your Dalbellos for a BTS kit. Is there any chance I could see a picture of this process? P.S. Congratulations on building your own plate system!!!

  30. #30
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    Another day of testing, everything still in one piece... I seached ungroomed runns to abuse it a bit more - no problems.

    Plate got a new 2.25" hole behing the front binding, for the leash to the anchor point in the boards inserts. Photos later, when Scooby sends them over. This has softened the plate ever so slightly and shaved 1.5 oz of weight. Toal new weigth is now about 4 lb 7 oz.

    Today I tested on an old beaffy glass Generics 170. It's true, plate gives a new life to the older boards too!
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