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Thread: SG delamination repair?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ear dragger View Post
    it tends to shatter on the bottom if you do, just let the bit do the work.
    You didn't buy the Plexiglass (acrylic) instead of the Lexan (polycarbonate), I hope?
    INSTRUCTION | CASI L2 - hard boots all the way! | Vancouver Carvers' Diaries 2013/14 | Items for sale

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Rauch View Post
    Does anyone have a recommendation for what to put under a TD3 binding. Just bought an SG 185 new in USASA classifieds and the seller also indicated that TD3's "eat" titanal boards. Plan on getting a plate system when the dust settles on that debate soon. In the mean time what can I put between the board and binding? and where can I get it.

    Thanks for the help!
    Just as a note. TD3 bindings don't break all metal boards. I have yet to see a Donek board failure caused by a tD3 binding.
    Sean Martin - president/founder
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  3. #33
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    I checked and sure enough, I bought the other stuff. after a little hunting today, I scored the good stuff from a glass shop. He had enough laying around for me to make two for my SG. thanks for the concern blue b. It would have been interesting having a spacer explode under my feet!
    trencher

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ear dragger View Post
    I checked and sure enough, I bought the other stuff. after a little hunting today, I scored the good stuff from a glass shop. He had enough laying around for me to make two for my SG. thanks for the concern blue b. It would have been interesting having a spacer explode under my feet!
    So the acrylic can explode but Lexan doesn't??
    Quote Originally Posted by eajracing View Post
    ....just dont let it intimidate you..... long boards with big scr's smell fear and will hand you your ass if you let them.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueB View Post
    You didn't buy the Plexiglass (acrylic) instead of the Lexan (polycarbonate), I hope?
    Dammit, I bought the wrong stuff also. Luckily I haven't got round to making any from those sheets of acrylic yet.

    My first set I made out of cutting board material. Basically it takes one board per binding. Seems like that should work OK, pretty durable I thought. Anyone have any feedback on using that material? (I haven't tried them yet)

  6. #36
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    Looks like my cutting board material is PE (Polyethelene). From a website I found :-

    Polycarbonate:

    Pros

    wide working temperature range
    great impact strength
    good optical properties (very clear)

    Cons
    usually costs more
    chemical resistivity concerns
    can release bisphenol A

    Polyethylene

    Pros

    great chemical resistivity
    cost

    Cons

    softens when heated
    melting point between 105-130C (depending on grade)

    Acrylic is rumoured to be tough to drill without cracking. Both acrylic and polycarbonate can crack. Don't lick your polycarbonate risers.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrutton View Post
    Don't lick your polycarbonate risers.
    Really? Crap. I've been doing this for years.
    -queequeg

  8. #38
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    I wish I had seen this post before I had the same thing happen, just noticed my 2 month old SG 163 (brand new when I got it) had the same break on the back binding as the guy who posted here has, aghh! I hope Sigi sees this and would be willing to look at the board also, he's probably headed home after the Moscow race. I'll try facebook too. I wonder if I get a VIST plate could I still ride the board? I know that it's too late to mount plastic spacers and a bomber/apex/sg/donek type plate might break it more, but a VIST plate should spread out the force I would think? Everett







  9. #39
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    Sorry dude, your board is dead. 1 down, 99 left. Hope the other boards have more responsible owners .

    SG Full Race Pro Team + Bomber TD1 = Deadly combination. Sorry but you could easily win the stupidity award of the year.

    I hope you're not counting on any warranty replacement.
    CARVER.SI - Anything else is just a sport!
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by match2002 View Post
    Sorry dude, your board is dead. 1 down, 99 left. Hope the other boards have more responsible owners .

    SG Full Race Pro Team + Bomber TD1 = Deadly combination. Sorry but you could easily win the stupidity award of the year.

    I hope you're not counting on any warranty replacement.
    Quite honestly, while I agree that using solid metal bindings with a titanal board wasn't the best idea in the world, considering the numerous warnings and examples of doing so over the years, I would hardly call this stupidity or a lack of responsibility. Seriously, if a board is that fragile in this day and age when metal is considered a "standard option" that a binding could make it snap it in two then its something I wouldnt want anyone to ride on. Or at least have the manufacturer clearly declare that all metal baseplate bindings should be avoided (and state that it would void warranty).

    Of course, you being a SG dealer and calling a customer "stupid" doesn't really earn you or SG any brownie points. 'nuff said.



    @evnewsphoto, I think if you read the SG warranty on their website it specifically states that any boards with titanal are not covered. Sounds to me like your board and money are toast.

  11. #41
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    Yeah no warranty on Sg Titan boards. Guess I should build a spacer for my recent acquisition as I plan to run td3s

  12. #42
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    Where is the warranty on the website? Most of it's in German so I don't think I've seen it. I to take offense to be called stupid but I guess I should have researched things more. I am f-ed here, I posted this on thier Facebook wall too, maybe they'll help out to avoid the negaitive press. I have a 175 SG full race that has the same set up and I have been riding that since last year with 0 problems and 3 times the mileage on it. I just inspected it and there are no hints of a crack so I do wonder if it's a deffect in the 163. I avoid plates after I rode one last year for a while and found it hurt me more than it helped but to avoid the same kind of crack I wonder if a VIST plate would do the trick to prevent the problem. Love my SGs they are the best boards I have ever ridden but so upset at how poorly this one is constucted. Everett

  13. #43
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    Received the board. Base was scuffed on contact point. Edges were rough and discolored. Not "like new" but fairly easy to fix, I thought. I used a variable-angle edge guide to determine side-edge bevel; it turned out to be 3 degrees. Cleaned up side edges with 3 degree fixed SVST guide and stones (no files). Then I attended to the base edges. I attempted to check base edge bevel and it appeared to be more than the limit of my adjustable guide, 3.25 degrees. That is, a felt-tip pen mark on the base edge couldn't be touched by the stone even at 3.25 degrees. I checked base flatness and it looked to me like about 1/2" of base nearest the edges was bevelled. So the edge bevel is in addition to the slanted base. At that point, I decided that the board was simply not in acceptable condition, not even remotely "like new".

    I brought the board to a tech for an expert assessment. He looked at the edges near the nose (in front of the contact point) and compared to the edges along the running length and judged that almost half the base material had already been ground away. He said that it would not be wise to try to return the board to its factory state (1 degree base, I think) or even close.

    Photo of scuff I thought was no problem:

    Photo of base with straightedge:


    In view of these facts, the board's condition was seriously misrepresented, probably unintentionally, but carelessly. I therefore request a full refund. I will happily send the board back if you pay for return shipping. Or, if you find someone else to buy it, I'll send it out wherever you wish upon payment of shipping.
    Karma?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by evnewsphoto View Post
    Where is the warranty on the website? Most of it's in German so I don't think I've seen it. I to take offense to be called stupid but I guess I should have researched things more. I am f-ed here, I posted this on thier Facebook wall too, maybe they'll help out to avoid the negaitive press. I have a 175 SG full race that has the same set up and I have been riding that since last year with 0 problems and 3 times the mileage on it. I just inspected it and there are no hints of a crack so I do wonder if it's a deffect in the 163. I avoid plates after I rode one last year for a while and found it hurt me more than it helped but to avoid the same kind of crack I wonder if a VIST plate would do the trick to prevent the problem. Love my SGs they are the best boards I have ever ridden but so upset at how poorly this one is constucted. Everett
    http://www.sgsnowboards.com/warranty-safety

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by John H View Post
    Karma?
    I already offered to take the board back from Reid and I hope to give him a full refund, I will be happy to ride that board as I always said it was a great board and I think there was nothing wrong with it. Maybe he cast a hex on me, I do wonder. I feel I never did anything wrong towards him but who knows? The thought did cross my mind, but if that's the case I'll be happy to buy back that Karma.

  16. #46
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    I now see the warranty, had to page down for English. I wonder why they exclude Titanal since that is the majority of what they make, why even have a warranty? I think I am going to try and pour in a ton of epoxy and clamp the hell out of it and hope for the best. I have a race next week and no back up (unless I get the Proton back) I'll have to race it either way. It is crazy that they would break so easily and I do think there is some sort of deffect since my other SG is fine. Thoughts on what I should do to protect that one? Everett

  17. #47
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    Good to hear that you are making things right. Now, onto the SG. TD1's are a bit tough on boards due to their small contact area. I would recommend that you use as a minimum a polycarbonate/lexan spacer between the binding and board to better distribute the load. Either that or some type of plate or riser system to get the binding off the board completely.

  18. #48
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    Given that it won't be replaced via warranty I think I should at least try to repair it in some fashion. Should I use regular epoxy or perhaps something stronger? My coach was talking about "gorilla glue" which I guess is used on concrete, anybody try that? I have seen the hardbooter.com video on making the spacer and I can try that at least aslo. Whatever happened to the guy who started this thread? Did he ever get his board back or is still sitting in Austria? Wondering if he attempted a repair if he did get it back.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by evnewsphoto View Post
    I have a race next week...
    Gorilla Glue? I don't know what your coach is smoking but he needs to stop.

    If you read the thread you would've heard the councils of very knowledgeable boarders stating that to attempt a repair is NOT safe.

    Borrow(steal) a board for the race don't risk every other race in the future attempting a repair.
    LIVE LIFE- Dave Wilcox
    NASTAR race record.
    Questions-> lonbordin at hot mail dot com

  20. #50
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    Sorry to see that you broke that board but I am not surprised it broke. We had talked about this when you and I rode at Loveland a while ago. The td1 binding is very stiff and has a small footprint and you are flexing that board more because it is softer lenghtways than a glass board. The small disc created a sharp load on the metal and it cracked. If you go on Sean's website he takes a piece of Titanal and snaps it with his hands because it is brittle. Time to get some new bindings that will work on a metal board. I am not trying to put you down or insult here. I imagine you will break your other board as well if you use td1 step ins on it? You are welcome to try out my Sidewinders if you like as I have 2 pairs. The td3 and or sidewinder is way nicer riding than the td1. I will be riding at Loveland this week as I am off work and could let you try bindings if you are interested? I don't think Gorrilla glue would work well to repair a board as it expands as it drys and foams out. I also could set you up with a pair of td3 stepin as I have the parts for that as well. let me know Matt Curtis 303-783-2867 or you could possibly demo some bindings from Bomber?

  21. #51
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    I would think if you install a vist plate on that board and try to ride it you will be putting more force on the board because you get more edging power and leverage with any kind of plate? Not a good idea! I would not reccomend that as the board may fail when you are turning hard? Don't want to see you get hurt. That board is broken pretty bad. Also you would be mounting the Vist plate on what looks like damaged inserts? Don't do it!

  22. #52
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    Ya, I was talking about how to keep from destroying the other SG that you have. The one in the pics is done.

  23. #53
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    Guys, thanks for the advice, I think I will have to re-drill it with some T-nuts as that is the simplest way to work around the problem, I have done this before with another board that was really old to mount the Donek plate I had last year. I can't believe that this board was so fragile. I also can tell you that at Slalom speeds I'll be riding at I won't get hurt. Back in the day of bad bindings I had plenty of Burton race plates break and or pop open, even once when I raced in the US Open (they had raceing once upon a time). I know it sounds a bit scary but that is no biggie to me, what's more important is fixing it, it's too good a board to write off. Epoxy won't work, T-nut is the only option.

  24. #54
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    Yeah I was kind of curious to hear if T-nutting and clamping/epoxying it would salvage it to any degree. T-nutting is what people used to do with stripped inserts (I guess before people heli-coiled them). I guess the titanal is cracked and trashed, and the board is super suspect at the break. Flexing might be all wrong now. I agree with others, these boards do seem a lot softer than older boards. I wonder if you could try adding a couple of stringers over the break, but you'd probably need to T-nut the attachments there also.

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by match2002 View Post
    Sorry dude, your board is dead. 1 down, 99 left. Hope the other boards have more responsible owners .

    SG Full Race Pro Team + Bomber TD1 = Deadly combination. Sorry but you could easily win the stupidity award of the year.

    I hope you're not counting on any warranty replacement.
    Hey Rush L. "Chill" dude. Your insults do little to support your points.

  26. #56
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    Where did you buy the board?
    I don't know how it works with deals to USA it probably complicates stuff.

    Anyway there is a two year guarantee for all consumer goods sold in the EU whatever they state on their warranty page.
    http://ec.europa.eu/publications/boo...move/64/en.pdf

    Also racing might woid warranty?
    Last edited by Calle; March 5th, 2012 at 12:58 AM.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by evnewsphoto View Post
    I wonder if I get a VIST plate could I still ride the board?a VIST plate should spread out the force I would think? Everett
    The VIST plate is still largely dependent on the 4x4 pattern. Your binding inserts are obviously comprimised.

    I have used allot of inserted boards/ systems over the years. I would favor a UPM Insert pattern and plate. I would personally feel comforable with that. Keep in mind I have not had any SG boards inserted. Their construction may be
    different? Thin core? Amazing boards without question, results do not lie.
    Last edited by www.oldsnowboards.com; March 5th, 2012 at 01:19 AM.

  28. #58
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    I'm very sorry if I offended anyone. But watching those photos almost made me cry. Awesome board was ruined because of negligence. Using TD1 on such board is stupidity. Those two things are not compatible on long term. Period.

    BTW evnewsphoto is not some newbie. According to his words he's been in snowboarding for quite some time. Board was used for gate training/competing and owner was warned about possible breaking by his mates before it has happened. And now the easiest thing is to blame SG poor construction and expect SG (or Sigi himself) "will help out to avoid the negaitive press".

    I am (also) SG dealer. Before I sell titanal board I always "interrogate" buyer about other components he's going to use. Why? Simply to avoid such things. Using incompatible components is dangerous for the board and for the rider.

    Once again. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I hope lesson was learned and we won't have to see such photos anytime soon.

    HAPPY SHREDDING!
    match
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  29. #59
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    I may have been riding for 25 years but this is only the second SG I have bought and had no problems with the other board. I did not buy it at a dealer I bought direct from a SG sponsered rider who got ot direct from Sigi. I am not stupid but I also didn't look into past problems, that is my fault. I love the boards but feel they should hold up better. Everett

  30. #60
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    If you want to invest the time i would encourage anyone interested in this thread to reread the Alpine snowboard plate thread. In plate discussions i have said that a plate should allow a board to do what it is designed to do not impose traits to the board. Clearly by putting a stiff plate on a soft board you will impose negative input similarly if you put a soft plate on a stiff board the board will outplay the plate. My conclusion was that the ideal setup is to design a plate and board combination that compliment each other not impose their own characteristics. Failure to recognize these simple principals will result in a less than favourable combination or worse an SG that is not fit to ride or a Kessler with delam on the corners the result of over flexing the core and shearing the laminates. Again i will advise any plate on a glass board will withstand more extreme forces than a plate on a titinal board, however if the plate and board are designed to be complimentary your chances of failure are remote and as good as the builders guarantee. Consult a builder who is willing to build both and as low to the board as possible. (maybe the latter will have to wait a little longer but the wait will be worth it!) TD1's on a plate are the lowest cost best bang for the buck than any other binding out there. How about a reissue of the original TD1'S with steel reciever? They have done it with the Camaro Challenger and Mustang. I can see the add now "Be the first to order TD1 Retro available spring 2013.

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