Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems

[corey_dyck]

IT could someone help me in understanding what is meant with "pedaling" ?

Twisting the board by pulling up with the toes on one foot and pulling up with the heel of the other foot. Or levering your boot cuffs to do the same.

I never would have guessed I did it until I tried a stiff plate that didn't let me do it. I found it quite hard to control on flat cat tracks at low speeds when the board was running flat. It felt like you needed to make much more exaggerated body movements than without a plate. It was like riding a bike with a stiff/seized headset bearing.

[jacopodotti]

More or less I've understood.
Thanks.
J

[SunSurfer]

SunSurfer

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Last season I only got to demo the proto type plate Mike had on one of his boards. Today I got to ride the latest version. Mine is a layer of tex thicker than most with a slightly thicker profiled core. WOW! I rode my favorite go to board first thing. It is a plate with sno stix, not an elevated plate. It is a TNT and I love the board. Mid morning I jumped on my very stiff, rockered tip and tail race board with 15>24M SCR , low nose, 181cm WITH new carbon Tinkler plate. It was amazing!! Reduced the "Noise" of rougher snow big time. The runs were getting covered with "cookies" but I couldn't feel them at all. I just know that I was traveling fast and smooth, it got really quite and smooth. Definitely need to remind yourself that just because you are not getting beat up doesn't mean the snow surface isn't rough and that you are MOVING!! Good fun!!

[SunSurfer]

Posted on JJA Facebook page.
"First podium for JJSB! Ariane Lavigne finished 2nd in the PGS at Copper on Monday. Ariane is the most technical rider on tour, she had some impressive turns, a well deserved podium!...."

The board she is pictured with has been setup with offset pivot points for the plate, by just two screw holes. So the plate must still function reasonably well with this setup.

But note the comments (sic) below from v3rse in his review of the Cypress 161 JJSB. (the highlighting is my emphasis)
"Very important things i have to add...there is many ways to install the interface plate (use different distance between inserts, asymetric, etc).
You really got to experiment the different ways cause with each setup you get a new board. When i did a few ride with Jasey, he seemed to like asymetric setup, gave it a try and it got terrible, wnet from the best board to the worst (in my opinion).
Since everyone don't ride the same way...experiment everything to make sure you get the best setup for you! Asymetric might not be for me but i'm sure it might be good for some others."

Despite Jasey-Jay's rep and achievements I personally don't buy the idea of offset/assymetric pivot mounts for a plate.

Offset pivots do not make mechanical sense in the way that I understand the hinge/slide pivots of an isocline plate to work.
Because the rider's feet are no longer on the snowboard all the rider's forces are applied to the board through the pivot points. Whether you are riding a heel or toeside turn, goofy or regular, 70 degrees/65 degrees angles, whatever.... the forces you exert are still applied through the pivots at the same points on the board.
To my mind, symmetric sidecut profile, core stiffness, and pivots make sense with a plate, assymetry does not.

My suspicion is that Jasey-Jay, as a relative a late-comer to the isocline plate market, is trying to create a market difference to add to the cachet of his name and achievements in trying to establish his snowboard brand.

Now I'll just duck while wild eyed Canucks take pot shots at me for disrespecting their hero.

SunSurfer

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Twisting the board by pulling up with the toes on one foot and pulling up with the heel of the other foot. Or levering your boot cuffs to do the same.

I never would have guessed I did it until I tried a stiff plate that didn't let me do it. I found it quite hard to control on flat cat tracks at low speeds when the board was running flat. It felt like you needed to make much more exaggerated body movements than without a plate. It was like riding a bike with a stiff/seized headset bearing.

Bingo!! One of the reasons Tinkler Plates are wood core plus other materials. Very similiar to building a snowboard core.

Tuning the flex is also handy. Producing plates to fit the rider's weight and style is a bonus for sure.

I can see I will want a number of different plates so I can adjust the ride/feel/performance.

[corey_dyck]

I can see I will want a number of different plates so I can adjust the ride/feel/performance.

Haha, I'm sure Mr. Tinkler will allow you to turn a screw to change it to whatever you want!

I should mention that the 'tight headset' feeling from a stiff plate completely disappeared once moving faster than a brisk run.

I was really wanting a plate today. There was a new operator running the groomer at the local bump, they left big ridges between each pass. Very tough to carve through!

[Steve Prokopiw]

Haha, I'm sure Mr. Tinkler will allow you to turn a screw to change it to whatever you want!

I should mention that the 'tight headset' feeling from a stiff plate completely disappeared once moving faster than a brisk run.

I was really wanting a plate today. There was a new operator running the groomer at the local bump, they left big ridges between each pass. Very tough to carve through!

Part of the thought process for my board was for it to handle 6"ridges invisible in flat light at my home mountain on a daily basis.Another pass with the cat and a few bucks worth of diesel would fix it right up,but they sold the good cats and are understaffed anyway.Luckily NICE is at a great mountain with good to excellent grooming :-)

[digger jr]

Still trying to figure out the BP Lower System. Is it the same height as a TD2 baseplate? Any other dampening advantages ect.

Happy New Year!

[Donek]

Still trying to figure out the BP Lower System. Is it the same height as a TD2 baseplate? Any other dampening advantages ect.

Happy New Year!

Reduction in stack height of 1/4in with respect to TD3. Not sure how that compares to a TD2, but I know they are also made to be much lighter, so I would guess you gain a bit there. The e-ring only comes in one hardness as it's really not required. The idea is that you're getting your isolation from the plate, so you don't neet it in the binding.

[Miltie]

Digger,

Just did a quick comparion of 3 degree base plates. The new BP has a smaller footprint compared to TD2(middle) and TD3(right). For height.... the new BP is roughly 15mm, the TD2 is just under 19mm and the TD3 is about 23mm. As far dampening... the isolation plate itself does most of that so the base plate / elastomer rings can be less substantial. Photos attached for reference.

Happy New Year! Tom

[lowrider]

With a plate on a board the elastomer can be eliminated. Dig out the old TD1's and feel what a plate can really do for you.

[Calle]

My First post...
Got my Bomber plate about a week ago. It's replacing my Donek plate since it couldn't give enough axle spacing and felt a bit soft (and carbonfiber is carbonfiber).

Has anyone had problems with the plate rubbing against the hardware?

Been thinking about weather I could have caused this when mounting the plate but don't think so?

The Donek plate I had dug holes in the snowboard and plate when different parts came in contact.

Don't know if it is a problem at all. But it feels like it would be better if not.

Am I too heavy? the plate/hardware to soft? to little play in the system? or to soft snowboard?

(Pictures of front slider, have moved the axle forward so it wont rub at the back, also second picture shows harware paint beeing rubbed of)

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Calle, Welcome to Bomber!!!

This is the first I have heard of this rubbing.

I am certain you will get a responce from Fin soon.

Questions:

How heavy are you?

What snowboard are you riding?

F2 Silberpfeil 172
F2 Eliminator 167


Again, welcome to BOL!!!

[Calle]

Thank you.

That info is old... SG full race team 185.

110 kg. that would be something like 240 lbs i think.

[scrutton]

Calle - just curious - what model did you get the 4mm or 5mm version?

[Calle]

It's a 5mm

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Calle - just curious - what model did you get the 4mm or 5mm version?

Yes, good catch. Thanks for thinking of this Paul.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Thank you.

That info is old... SG full race team 185.

110 kg. that would be something like 240 lbs i think.

That confirms you are a big boy that can bend a board.

Off hand it would seem that by design it would be hard to install the hardware wrong?

Bomber crew may be on holiday today, so keep that in mind. They will
be quick to respond when they see this post.

[Donek]

Calle,

We've definitely seen interference for the bigger or more aggressive riders. The unusual part is that it seems occur in different locations for different people. I think we see it more than Bomber because we provide more motion in our slider. This is done to allow for more inaccuracy in the spacing of the hardware. We've tried to ensure that interfearence is only possible between the plate and hardware as we don't want to be scratching up boards. So far there have been no negative effects other than the visible scratches. I'm sure Fin will have some feedback for you, but Bomber is typically closed on Mondays.

[pokkis]

I have also 5mm version and i'm bout 83kg light
And have rubbing marks on my plate, from edges of that sliding mechanics, sameway as i had on my Donek plate too.
But i considered that as no major issue.
EDIT, my version is from last year. And you can see that marks are more on right side, so under my toes due i'm regular.

[Calle]

It's probably no big deal. I also want a plate as low as possible

Sean - The Donek plate worked really well except for the really small scraping of the topsheet.

I am/was just curious if any others have the same problems. It was so shiny when new

[Donek]

It's probably no big deal. I also want a plate as low as possible

Sean - The Donek plate worked really well except for the really small scraping of the topsheet.

I am/was just curious if any others have the same problems. It was so shiny when new

I'm glad you liked it. It's something that I think will happen for a long time to come. It's very difficult to predict all the manners in which the rider can bend or deflect things and still try to minimize the stack height of the system.

On your Bomber photo... Have you moved the axles out since you had the interference issue. Based on the Bomber hardware I have in my hand that scratching does not appear to line up with where the bosses are mounted. It should be just in front and behind the boss, where yours appears to be quite far behind it.

[Calle]

Yes I have moved the slider forward so it wont scrape at the back where the plate gets thicker. Tried to mention it in the paranthesis.

EDIT: hmm this maybe isn't such a bright idea, the plate is thinner if moved forward, maybe more flex?

I also have more wear on toeside, however on the donek plate it was the opposite but that mas on the board.

[Donek]

Yes I have moved the slider forward so it wont scrape at the back where the plate gets thicker. Tried to mention it in the paranthesis.

probably the most intriguing part is the rubbing between the aluminum 4X4 adapter plate. You show the anodizing being rubbed. This indicates interference when flexing the board upwards (inducing greater camber in the board) There is only 1 to 2 mm of travel in the slider in this direction, yet you are clearly bending the board far more than ever expected in the reverse direction.

[pokkis]

That red part in Calle's right side picture can not make any of those marks with black arrow. But i could hit to those metal inserts for binding screws.
Those black arrow marks can come from same source as on mine, screws holding sliding mechs in place. At least on mine screws could have been sinked 1mm deeper so top of screw would not be above that metal area. That might hev been enough.

[Calle]

Yes correct.
The anodized hardware have been in contact with the binding inserts.

The ones in the plate with arrows comes from sliding mechanism but i don't thin it is the screws since they sit lower than the overall assemply.

[pokkis]

On mine screws are bout half millimeter higher that rest of mechanics.

[Calle]

probably the most intriguing part is the rubbing between the aluminum 4X4 adapter plate. You show the anodizing being rubbed. This indicates interference when flexing the board upwards (inducing greater camber in the board) There is only 1 to 2 mm of travel in the slider in this direction, yet you are clearly bending the board far more than ever expected in the reverse direction.

You don't have to bend the board much in the backward direction to make contact and if the plate also flexes some there aren't much margin. But you would probably know better how much can be expected

EDIT: To me this seems much more reasonable than the slider scratching since i can make it happen with my hands

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Mike built this one for himself. Nice.

Hope to ride with Mike in the morning and get some feedback.