Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems

[GeoffV]

heroshmero

Not sure what you mean by laterally across the board.
The bent hardware is perpendicular to the board.
Look at the 1st picture Hans posted of the hardware. The narrow base plate that has the 4 screws that mount directly to the snowboard were bent slightly. As I put pressure on the snowboard to get it to flex, I could see the base plate flex back and forth, there was about an 1/8 of an inch gap when it flexed back and forth. Not good.

I'm not trying to bash the SG plate system but wanted to point out some observations I noticed. If the hardware covered more surface area on the snowboard, I suspect this would eliminate the 1/8th flexing that was occurring.

[heroshmero]

Geoff, that's what I was wondering. Thanks.

Seems like if they just build up that ridge of metal in between the mounting screws it would make it a lot stronger.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I have not ridden the SG plate but saw a WC racers setup in person. Both the front and rear plates that attach to the board were slightly bent. With the forces the racers put on the plate system I'd be a little worried about the hardware. Fin's BBP hardware design is more solid. For 1000 Euros get the BBP.

Another example of why UPM style pattern is really superior overall.

Not handy and not likely to sell as well, but superior design benefits

[bjvircks]

picture vs thousand words ?

[MUD]

If flex / bending is an issue with the SG plate. They will be able to tweak the spline between the mounting screws to minimize this. Right now it looks rather minimal, it could increase in size as needed.

[bjvircks]

They cannot raise the rib very high because they need to clear hardware on the underside of the plate, depending on where things get placed by the user.

save off the image and zoom in... you can see stuff better. The orginal image earlier in the thread may be better for this.

edit: I take back my comment above to a certain extent. What I thought were socket head cap screws as part of the underside plate assembly are just there to avoid being loose and getting lost. The rib. spline, spine, whatever you want to call it CAN get somewhat taller... but must still clear the binding attach reinforcements.

[fin]

Hardware collision is a MAJOR issue on these/all plate systems. Talking with a few of the guys in this market now we all had different way to work with this. I used a solid model on the computer to make sure things don't go "bump" once in use. But at the same time if you go to far with this you create a very tall system that does not help as well. So it was maddening to make low, light, strong, and not collide. Using the solid model I was able to get it some of these part to miss each other by about one millimeter but this let me keep things as low as possible.

Another concept to consider is using an "offset" for the axles on the lower mounting plates. If you run the axle down the middle of the mounting screws you do get a very strong interface BUT the issue we found was you could not get the axle width as wide as we wanted (in our case 62cm for the widest setting). So we offset the axles in front/back of all the mounting screws to do this.

Of course the UPM version has the benefit of both these concepts.

[roby69]

bozzplate

[roby69]

bozzplate

in action

[LeGogoussier]

Here is a Frankenplate that I put together in just a couple of hours. It's safe, sturdy and really effective! My son has used it in gate practice and forerunning a Noram/FIS race at Le Relais last week. It worked like the real thing.

Ingredients:
- A Sigi Full Race Titanal board with a smashed nose;
- A set of Hangl plates;
- A race board with Hangl inserts;

Setup:
The Hangl rails are installed side by side; not offset.
Two skinny sliding nylon bushings in front.
Two fat bushings at the back (fixed, but acting as a hinge).
The four innermost bushings and their pins are omitted (to avoid flatspotting).
The top plate is screwed to the Hangl rails with 8 screws (4 at both ends, 4 inner ones omitted).
The Hangl aluminum plates are not used.

No need to alter or destroy the Hangles - you can revert to the original setup.

Coincidentally, someone from Down Under posted a picture of my FlowTek Frankenbindings a few days ago:
http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulleti...ad.php?t=33497
(I no longer use them, having finally converted to HB).

Enjoy,
L-G

[lowrider]

"Hinge and slide" it's a plate, welcome to the club ! Now make it lighter and lower.

[WinterGold]

Today in Moscow Sigi was using his SG plate. He had the toe and heel part of his TD3 sidewinder mounted directly to his plate without the baseplate. There was some metal between for canting/lift, but no ordinary baseplate. It seems a logical step, right?
It makes the system lighter and lower.
I hope, we will see similar retail versions soon .

[SunSurfer]

Today in Moscow Sigi was using his SG plate. He had the toe and heel part of his TD3 sidewinder mounted directly to his plate without the baseplate. There was some metal between for canting/lift, but no ordinary baseplate. It seems a logical step, right?
It makes the system lighter and lower.
I hope, we will see similar retail versions soon .

Works for a custom build isocline plate for a rider who knows exactly what they want for binding angles. For this reason unlikely to become a commercial proposition because of the need to make equipment that can be used by a wide variety of people willing to part with money!

SunSurfer

[WinterGold]

Yeah, you´re right, SunSurfer! But let me dream ...
Maybe it would be possible to have some kind of custom order. You give your setup wishes and boot size and get the right inserts on your BBP with the toe and heel set from the TD3 Sidewinder !
I´d love that!

[jacopodotti]

Ok he is SG,WHOW, but who knows the right set up for each board?

[Steve Prokopiw]

Works for a custom build isocline plate for a rider who knows exactly what they want for binding angles. For this reason unlikely to become a commercial proposition because of the need to make equipment that can be used by a wide variety of people willing to part with money!

SunSurfer

could solve this with a sliding mount of some kind.I want to buy a plate mainly to be able to do just that,and reduce stack height by enough to improve board feel significantly.The demos I have tried all leave me wishing for lower stack height for the ability to enjoy the ride in more situations..

[SunSurfer]

Ok he is SG,WHOW, but who knows the right set up for each board?

Of course, some people who don't own a snowboard companies build their own plates in their garages at home!!

[lowrider]

And today one of those home built plates (the original SGP prototype now retired) was on a board ridden by a senior class rider that placed second in the Final Ontario provincial races today. The actual first place winner was riding his own home built Coiler without a plate.

[SunSurfer]

Just working through some of the possibilities for a circular insert pattern that would allow using only toe & heel units without the joining alloy plate and still allow a range of angles to be used.

F2 bindings run their toe/heel unit mounting bolts at the corners of a rectangle approx. 17.5 x 4cm.
Rotating a rectangle of that size about its' centre, allowing for M6 bolts/machine screws and standard inserts (20mm diameter across the base) allows 13 degree increments.
If one was to use a large metal insert in the substance of the board, drilled and threaded for M6 bolts, then rotation increments in the range 8-10 degrees would be possible depending upon the metal chosen. The threads of adjacent holes will touch at rotation increments of 4 degrees.

SunSurfer

[lowrider]

Sounds like you are commited enough to this affliction to hide a Bridgeport milling machine in your garage. Not sure if i can get away with that.

[Jack Michaud]

And today one of those home built plates (the original SGP prototype now retired) was on a board ridden by a senior class rider that placed second in the Final Ontario provincial races today. The actual first place winner was riding his own home built Coiler without a plate.

so, you were second and Bruce was first?

[Jack Michaud]

Another example of why UPM style pattern is really superior overall.

Not handy and not likely to sell as well, but superior design benefits

I've got some good mileage on my Boiler Plate now and I'm having no issues with the 4x4 hardware. Typical Bomber goodness.

I think my Boiler is probably going to live on my NSR 185, but having the option to put it on my Stubby 171 or not is nice. I wouldn't be able to move it from board to board if it was UPM.

[Jack Michaud]

Maybe it would be possible to have some kind of custom order. You give your setup wishes and boot size and get the right inserts on your BBP with the toe and heel set from the TD3 Sidewinder !
I´d love that!

I can't imagine why it would not be possible, and yes, that would be the ultimate.

[Mike T]

4mm "Mathilda" Boiler Plate is on a UPS truck and will be delivered tomorrow - can't wait.

[John Gilmour]

Just working through some of the possibilities for a circular insert pattern that would allow using only toe & heel units without the joining alloy plate and still allow a range of angles to be used.

F2 bindings run their toe/heel unit mounting bolts at the corners of a rectangle approx. 17.5 x 4cm.
Rotating a rectangle of that size about its' centre, allowing for M6 bolts/machine screws and standard inserts (20mm diameter across the base) allows 13 degree increments.
If one was to use a large metal insert in the substance of the board, drilled and threaded for M6 bolts, then rotation increments in the range 8-10 degrees would be possible depending upon the metal chosen. The threads of adjacent holes will touch at rotation increments of 4 degrees.

SunSurfer

In 1995 I proposed an industry wide new hole standard for alpine. The nice thing was it was backwards compatible to 4 X 4.

It helped distribute the forces of carving better over a larger area and provided more inserts - and ones near stress areas as well to help prevent tear out.

If you give me an email i could send you a photo. Bomber and Catek could make an accessory plate to their existing bindings for this system.

Send me your fax # and I'd be happy to send you a drawing of the "Gilmour hole pattern"

[GeoffV]

Mike do you have the 5mm as well? If you do please post a comparison review. I wouldn't get a chance to get on the 4mm until our ECES.

BBP on ice

[lowrider]

so, you were second and Bruce was first?

Unfortunatly not me ArcRider was the lucky 2nd place winner. Risking his life racing with the SGP. Bruce won't give up a first place finish to anyone. Lovely conditions +7 deg C. and all the rain you could swallow. Goggles wouldn't work because of the rain,the best results were to keep eyes shut and open them as little as possible. Fog thick enough you couldn't see the top from the bottom. Overall a great day of racing for all ages.

[LeGogoussier]

And today one of those home built plates (the original SGP prototype now retired) was on a board ridden by a senior class rider that placed second in the Final Ontario provincial races today. The actual first place winner was riding his own home built Coiler without a plate.

...and today a junior riding the home built contraption depicted in post #764 above won the U15 race at Owl's Head to finish the Coupe Québec season #1 in that category. In rain and fog on a course that got rutted almost knee deep in a hurry.

[Mike T]

Mike do you have the 5mm as well? If you do please post a comparison review. I wouldn't get a chance to get on the 4mm until our ECES.

BBP on ice

Nope - I rode the 4mm at SES and loved it, never got around to trying the 5mm but got a pretty good idea that I didn't need to after watching others on the 5mm and hearing their comments and comparisons.

[JL53]

...and today a junior riding the home built contraption depicted in post #764 above won the U15 race at Owl's Head to finish the Coupe Québec season #1 in that category.