Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems

[ARCrider]

My question about the Apex is what do the extensions do? Do they contact the board when the board is bent and act as a leaf spring?

Anyway, exciting stuff.

if I tell you someone will kill me

might just be a place to stick sponsors logos

[Keyser Soze]

No longer in production, but given the popularity of plate systems now, I wonder why this wasn't more popular before?

[Keyser Soze]

[pokkis]

I think Gerab is not mentioned yet in this thread
http://www.scorpionracingcenter.com/...products_id=70

[Keyser Soze]

I think Gerab is not mentioned yet in this thread
http://www.scorpionracingcenter.com/...products_id=70

Good call.

[WinterGold]

@lowrider - do you really think that plates like the Vist do not work??? We should tell lots of pros about this ... but Prommegger (and lots of others) seem to place consistently on the podium anyway ... those pros ... no idea what works and what doesn´t ...

@Jack Michaud - it took me about 5 whole days of riding before I got used to the feeling of the plates ... but then ...
For me it heavily depended on the condition of the slopes. We had bad conditions at the beginning of the season (lots of ice, artificial snow and bumps/ruts). The plates shine in such conditions. For me there is no way around this. The "better" the slopes, the less the need for plates ...

[lowrider]

I chose my words very carefully I didn't say they don't work I said they don't compliment the boards design. They impose their own.I take it from your response you don't agree.How can I convince you? Jack would you care to try a pair of my aluminum riser bars and offer your opinion?

[Jack Michaud]

Jack would you care to try a pair of my aluminum riser bars and offer your opinion?

I'm yer Huckleberry!

[Keyser Soze]

Jack would you care to try a pair of my aluminum riser bars and offer your opinion?

Aluminum riser bars? Did I miss something?

[WinterGold]

I chose my words very carefully I didn't say they don't work I said they don't compliment the boards design. They impose their own.I take it from your response you don't agree.How can I convince you? Jack would you care to try a pair of my aluminum riser bars and offer your opinion?

Ok, I reread your post -

... the others just interfere with it's performance ...

And pros who win competitions this year would use such a plate?
I don´t doubt that the Apex plate will work very well and Karl´s plate also has some interesting construction elements, but my point is how big can the advantage be, if people are still winning WCs on the Vist?
I´m sure that there is a lot of room for improvement, but the Vist is by no way a "bad" plate ... that´s highly unlikely ...

[bobdea]

Bryan, without giving away secrets what types of mods are needed on the hangls, is it reversible or is it destructive to some of the parts?

interested but I just want to know what I'm getting into.

second question, is there a weight reduction?

[~tb]

Last year I came up with 2 plate system concepts that I thought might be effective and novel. Being an engineer that works in the influence of patents (and during the time several people were posting regarding the intellectual property of plate systems) I decided I would search for and read all the patents that I thought might apply to the plate system I had in mind.

What did I find?

1. There are some really cool patents out there
2. Just about every aspect of the system I had in mind would have been covered by a patent in the ski industry
3. Based on all of these patents, my idea would likely not be patentable
4. If my idea is not patentable. . . I might use it for myself, but no point in pushing it hard to anyone in the industry.
5. Mike Tinkler has some pretty cool patents especially for windsurfing
6. Jeff Caron and Fin both have some pretty cool patents.
7. IMHO Luccio (of Madd fame) has one of the cooler plate system patents

here is an HTML dump of my sheet. Links should work

. . Patents relevant to snowboard binding and plate systems . . . Important notes 1 - Most patents for snowboard plate systems are covered by ski industry patents (Rossi and Salamon . 2 - Mike Tinkler holds several patents. The most relevant has to do with the use of snowsticks. . . . Relevance Relevant Patents Description Owner Granted Expires . 5232241 Snow ski with integral binding isolation mounting plate K2 Corporation 3-Aug-93 29-Jul-13 References "Derby Flex"patent . Plate system PCT/CH1983/000039 DAMPING DEVICE FOR SKIES 13-Oct-83 8-Oct-03 this is the "Derby Flex" patent . limited Relevance 4405149 Ski with vibration-damping means Rossignol 20-Sep-83 15-Sep-03 . Limited Relevance 4438946 Slalom ski with vibration damper Rossignol 27-Mar-84 22-Mar-04 . Plate system 4804200 Sliding device, particularly alpine ski Kuchler; Walter (D-4712 Werne, DE) 14-Feb-89 9-Feb-09 Closest thing to a plate system . not relevant 4902548 Reinforcing member (visco-elastic) Atomic 20-Feb-90 15-Feb-10 . Limited Relevance 5002301 Ski having improved shock absorption and vibration resistance Salomon 26-Mar-91 21-Mar-11 . Limited Relevance 5033765 Ski having improved shock absorption and vibration resistance Salomon 23-Jul-91 18-Jul-11 . Plate system 5211418 Plate-shaped damping device for ski binding Varpat Patentverwertungs AG (Littau, CH) 18-May-93 13-May-13 damped plate system . Plate system 5232241 Snow ski with integral binding isolation mounting plate K2 Corporation 3-Aug-93 29-Jul-13 recessed plate . not relevant 5775715 Piezoelectric damper for a board such as a snow ski or snowboard K2 Corporation 7-Jul-98 2-Jul-18

. Read one of these 5 5647353 Ski device fluid damper Ski-Shocks, Inc. 15-Jul-97 10-Jul-17 These are all interesting, but esentialy the same . Read one of these 5 5499836 Ski device fluid damper Ski-Shocks, Inc. 19-Mar-96 14-Mar-16 These are all interesting, but esentialy the same . Read one of these 5 5332254 Ski device fluid damper Ski-Shocks, Inc. 26-Jul-94 21-Jul-14 These are all interesting, but esentialy the same . Read one of these 5 5213355 Ski device fluid damper Ski-Shocks, Inc. 25-May-93 20-May-13 These are all interesting, but esentialy the same . Read one of these 5 5156413 Ski device fluid damper Ski-Shocks, Inc. 20-Oct-92 15-Oct-12 These are all interesting, but esentialy the same . Plate system 4896895 Shock-absorbing element for skis Bettosini; Brosi (8610 Uster, CH) 30-Jan-90 25-Jan-10 . Plate system 4294460 Foot-plates for ski-bindings Kirsch; Bernhard (5500 Trier-Biewer, DE 13-Oct-81 8-Oct-01 looks like the vist plate . limited Relevance 4141570 Adjustable connection between ski and binding Sudmeier; James L. (Riverside, CA) 27-Feb-79 22-Feb-99 looks like a catek snowboard binding . not relevant 5342077 Snow surfboard having asymmetric characteristics Rossignol 30-Aug-94 25-Aug-14 . limited Relevance 5333889 Board for sliding, provided with a device for damping vibrations Rossignol 2-Aug-94 28-Jul-14 semi plate . Plate System Very Relevant 5332252 Shock absorption device for a ski Salomon 26-Jul-94 21-Jul-14 . Relevant 5284357 Apparatus and method for damping deflections and vibrations in skis Tinkler 8-Feb-94 3-Feb-14 check back . 5199734 Ski (with plate) Head 6-Apr-93 1-Apr-13 relevant . 4592567 Modifiable stiffness ski Caber Italia S.p.A. (Montebelluna, IT) 3-Jun-86 29-May-06 . OLD idea 4951960 Snowboard whole length split Sadler; Stanley (Kippen, Stirling, FK8 3EF, GB6) 28-Aug-90 23-Aug-10 . 7021647 Board for gliding (built in plate) Rossignol 4-Apr-06 30-Mar-26 . 6659493 Connector plate for bindings Trnka; Milan (Kladno, CZ) 9-Dec-03 4-Dec-23 . Luccio from Madd 6113113 Sliding apparatus having adjustable flexion and torsion characteristics Harrington; Robert J. (Framingham, MA) 5-Sep-00 31-Aug-20 Luccio from MADD in italy is on this one . 5525083 Towable water sports apparatus such as a water ski O'brien 11-Jun-96 6-Jun-16 mentions plate . 4865345 Vibration damper for ski Rossignol 12-Sep-89 7-Sep-09 relevant

. 3797839 Earlies Plate system I can find Gertsch AG (Zug, CH) 19-Mar-74 14-Mar-94 relevabt . Luccio from Madd 5984343 Sliding apparatus having adjustable flexion and torsion characteristics 16-Nov-99 11-Nov-19 Luccio from MADD in italy is on this one . 5573264 Snowboard (flex modifier) Salomon 12-Nov-96 7-Nov-16 . 5326126 Modification of the flexibility of skis Ruffinengo; Piero G. (Salt Lake City, UT) 5-Jul-94 30-Jun-14 go back and check . 5301976 Ski bonding Marker Deutschland GmbH (Eschenlohe, DE) 12-Apr-94 7-Apr-14 relevant if putting impedance member in . 6270108 Device for damping vibrations of a ski Salomon 7-Aug-01 2-Aug-21 . 6293567 Snowboard with selectively added structural components Menges; John D. (Portland, OR) 25-Sep-01 20-Sep-21 rele . 5671940 Device for mounting a boot on a downhill ski Rossignol 30-Sep-97 25-Sep-17 . 5393086 Ski for winter sports comprising a base, a stiffener and a support for bindings Salomon 28-Feb-95 23-Feb-15 . . . . Other Tinkler Patents . 4649847 Hull construction tinkler may be relevant . 3902207 Surfboard tinkler 2-Sep-75 28-Aug-95 . 3988794 Surfboard with resilient tail tinkler 2-Nov-76 28-Oct-96 . 4662781 Apparatus for creating water sports ramp tinkler 5-May-87 30-Apr-07 . Fin Doyle's patent for TD1 . 5895068 TD 1 binding Doyle . Jeff Caron's patents for Catek

. 5577756 Caron . 6189911 Caron . 6315318 Caron

[lowrider]

Jack send your post address i'll send the bars.

[Dan]

I have some uninformed questions for the forum:

Is the functional benefit of plate systems primarily suspension, allowing the board to flex without "dead spots", both, or something else?

Does anyone have any information on how well each plate system delivers those benefits?

[lowrider]

Ask a patent lawyer. I think you have asked the correct question but until now everyone has tried to make a board do what their device desires rather than allow the board to do what it is designed to do.Reading through many of the previously posted links on patents I am left with the conclusion that the hardware and devices do "something" rather than allow the board to do it's thing uninterupted . Less is more!

[Keyser Soze]

Covered à la Canadienne in the second picture?

[WinterGold]

What plate is Heidi Neururer using (the one on the left)?

(So many Vists again ...)

[pokkis]

I would guess that it is somekind Vist clone


btw this thread is still missing all Japanese plates, linked alread earlier to some other discussion here

[yyzcanuck]

I'm yer Huckleberry!

You're a daisy if you do!

[WinterGold]

btw this thread is still missing all Japanese plates, linked alread earlier to some other discussion here

Here is one link -

http://www.surfeye.com/EYEStune/ACTIVEindex.htm

[Willow 15]

I love this thread and it's a good thing to get people thinking, but this is a s%$t idea[QUOTE]Plate system PCT/CH1983/000039 DAMPING DEVICE FOR SKIES 13-Oct-83 8-Oct-03 this is the "Derby Flex" patent/QUOTE]. I live in England, very close to the border of Scotland and the last thing we need is damper sky's.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Bryan, without giving away secrets what types of mods are needed on the hangls, is it reversible or is it destructive to some of the parts?
interested but I just want to know what I'm getting into.
second question, is there a weight reduction?

No, you can't go back. Removes material. Reduces weight - Allot!!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

One riders interference is another riders improvement

Currently in reference to the Olympics, it is about what helps a particular athlete do his/her best.

It is over simplification to say. Lighter is the best. Flexing with the board is the best, isolation or decoupling is the best. There are plenty of ideas and concepts. Most have been around a while.

It is the blending, tuning and proper application of these concepts that creates the winnning magic!!

We are a long way from the end.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

No longer in production, but given the popularity of plate systems now, I wonder why this wasn't more popular before?

Because it was different.

We like to think we are open to change.

Most are not until it has become accepted.

Time and time again.

Thanks to those adding photos and good quality comment in keeping this thread productive and valid.

[Steve Prokopiw]

Because it was different.

We like to think we are open to change.

Most are not until it has become accepted.

Time and time again.

Thanks to those adding photos and good quality comment in keeping this thread productive and valid.

As a tinkerer myself, I have been surprised to find how many 'great ideas',particularly in cycling, were thought up half a century ago.

[~tb]

Ask a patent lawyer. I think you have asked the correct question but until now everyone has tried to make a board do what their device desires rather than allow the board to do what it is designed to do.Reading through many of the previously posted links on patents I am left with the conclusion that the hardware and devices do "something" rather than allow the board to do it's thing uninterupted . Less is more!

Most of the patents linked above work to modify the boards flex. . . there are a couple though that talk about allowing the board to flex naturally and not induce a flat spot under the boot/binding. I forgot which one this was though.

wayyyyyyy too much reading (to do again)

I still find the Luccio's patents and a couple others ones interesting.

If you click on the "images" button, it takes you to a scan of the actual patent and you can flip through them a page at a time, including drawings.

I also love to read what other patents the inventor thought were relevant. . .

[Jack Michaud]

The links for the Madd/Luccio patents take me to patents for Chris Klug and Mark Cruz...

[CarvingScooby]

Which plate is this?



Thanks
RT

[Jack Michaud]

Which plate is this?

I could tell you but someone would kill me!

[Shred Gruumer]

And Where can I get them..

Can some one round up what will work just using the 4 hole mounting pattern that a board already has...

need the links, since I am not in tune with all the options that are out there that will work with just the 4 hole..

Will S-Flex work with 4 hole and TD3's.. Vist? Apex?

Never needed them but now Im interested in buying something a slappin them on and see what its all about..

Just one more thing to buy..

Whats next boot sole shocks, with ohlins dampening.. Steering dampers..

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