Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems

[kieran]

That board is looking amazing, you still up for some runs down the cas and m1 this season?

absofrigginlutely, but 'gorm have bought a winch kit for one of the beasts.
they'll be grooming the lady, and probably laogh mor again if we get another massive dump ...

[Willow 15]

absofrigginlutely, but 'gorm have bought a winch kit for one of the beasts.
they'll be grooming the lady, and probably laogh mor again if we get another massive dump ...

That is good news, a well groomed lady. Mind you a trip to Aonach Mor would probably the best bet for that monster. Have you ridden the donek indoors yet, if so how many turns did you manage? half a turn

[Hans]

Got to see the birthing of new Bomber Plate fresh from the press at the shop yesterday. It looks just as beautiful in it's raw from as it does when it's all trimmed out and drilled. The time and effort that has gone into this project is amazing! I have to give props to Fin, Sean and Luke for all of their efforts on bringing this project to fruition, it has been a hugh expenditure of money, talent, dedication and experience that has allowed this collaborative effort happen. It is going to be a interesting year watching all of these manufacturers with current plate offerings duke it out. I am confident that the cream will rise to the top. I would post up some pics but once again sworn to secerecy and frisked for cameras before entering the shop.

Think Snow!

More teasing. This is only flat text I can't buy. We/I want to know prices and specs.

[SunSurfer]

imagine you're going to be riding a mountain bike (forwards) down a rocky trail.

you're allowed suspension. but only on one end. you can have either front suspension, or rear suspension. which do you want?

--

the (sine) attack is coming from the front of the board, so it's sensible to have it be the most articulated part of the interface. as in the MTB comparison above, the rider is located primarily behind the front articulated mount, and the rear pivoting mount.

(which suggests to me we want our front binding behind the sliding pivot, and our rear foot closer to the pivoting .. pivot.)

Faulty pre-supposition: The plate pivots are not a shock absorbing suspension system.
The plate's flex will produce a degree of shock absorption but STIFF plates are thought at present to produce the best performance. The board also absorbs and releases the forces applied to it.

The pivots allow the board to move independently of the plate. The motion of the snowboard is essentially identical whether the "(sine) attack" (upwards/ downwards deflection and release) is applied at the front or rear of the board, or whether the hinge/slide unit is front or back. I've tried it on a test bed setup and seen this with my own eyes.

Only a decellerative force, applied from the nose, along the length of the board, will produce a difference in motion when the hinge/slide is at front rather than at the rear. Bending of the board will occur between the nose and the hinge only pivot. So, with the hinge/slide at the front clearly more of the board is available to soak up the decellerative force.

SunSurfer

[kieran]

Faulty pre-supposition: The plate pivots are not a shock absorbing suspension system.

it isn't an apples-to-apples comparison, i'll agree.

So, with the hinge/slide at the front clearly more of the board is available to soak up the decellerative force.

SunSurfer

which neatly ties in with my front-suspension analogy?

[philw]

feels pretty good on the carpet.

'Kinel, modern board technology in the UK. Whatever next.

I ordered a Kessler SL but it's not arrived yet and sod's law says I'll have to spend my time riding heli-powder all season. But if I get to the piste, then I have the right board for that.

Not sure I like the idea of a groomed lady. I only rode there once but ungroomed was pretty good (163 Nitro Scorpion SL board in about 1994).

[Willow 15]

Wow Phil you have been trying for a new board for ages and low and behold you go full on and get a race machine. You will not be disappointed, you will probably want a 185 next.
Don't know why you are perturbed by a groomed lady the last time I saw you on the web, you were all over a frozen backside!

[BlueB]

More here: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulleti...ad.php?t=31614

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Looks good BlueB.

Questions:

Is the plastic tough enought to thread and then hold like metal?

Why not run a single axle?

Measuring from top of board to top of plate, how tall is it?

Simple and clean build.

[BlueB]

Thanks Bryan.

The treads on the half axles do not bear any pulling loads, they just stop the axle from turning. Plastic wil be ideal for that.
If the question was about the treads in the sliders, there I have 20mm of tread. Should be ample...

It could be a single axle if I ever go CNC, or propper machine shop. I do not have enough travel on my press-drill to do bore for the single axle in one go, so 2 half-axles were a simple solution.

31mm tall, from top of the board to top of the plate.

[Boarder_Ted]

Well, it looks like I'm not the only one....

And Boris, a couple questions. Is there sufficient clearance between the board and plate? Or between the plate slider blocks and the board? Also, you just threaded the UHMDPE for the bolts into the slider and pivot blocks? I ended up through-bolting mine with a plate of stainless steel. Also stiffened the entire plate with a strip of maple. It was really flexy before that. My design is (obviously) based on Sean's. (Remember Sean, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!)

[Donek]

Well, it looks like I'm not the only one....

And Boris, a couple questions. Is there sufficient clearance between the board and plate? Or between the plate slider blocks and the board? Also, you just threaded the UHMW for the bolts into the slider and pivot blocks? I ended up through-bolting mine with a plate of stainless steel. Also stiffened the entire plate with a strip of maple. It was really flexy before that. My design is (obviously) based on Sean's. (Remember Sean, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!)

I love that you're using the bottom side of the board as a bearing surface. As a board designer, I should have thought of just using p-tex on the bottom, but I didn't. I wonder how the uUHMW to UHMW bearing surface will hold up. Very cool. Are you sure you have enough travel there?

[Boarder_Ted]

Sean, if you are referring to my plate, the slider you are looking at is an early version. I have since modified it to give a longer travel length. I do wish I had access to a CNC machine. Your work is beautiful. Makes mine look like it was whittled by one armed monkeys.

As far as how well the UHMW bearing surfaces hold up, I'll let you know. :-)
BTW what are your thoughts on tapping the UHMDPE?

[Donek]

Sean, if you are referring to my plate, the slider you are looking at is an early version. I have since modified it to give a longer travel length. I do wish I had access to a CNC machine. Your work is beautiful. Makes mine look like it was whittled by one armed monkeys.

As far as how well the UHMW bearing surfaces hold up, I'll let you know. :-)
BTW what are your thoughts on tapping the UHMDPE?

I don't think you'll get adequate retention. Even if you did initially, the cyclical loading would wear the threads and they would eventually fail.

[Donek]

Sean, if you are referring to my plate, the slider you are looking at is an early version. I have since modified it to give a longer travel length. I do wish I had access to a CNC machine. Your work is beautiful. Makes mine look like it was whittled by one armed monkeys.

As far as how well the UHMW bearing surfaces hold up, I'll let you know. :-)
BTW what are your thoughts on tapping the UHMDPE?

Is that lower slider plate aluminum or stainless. 1/8in aluminum will never support the loads.

[Boarder_Ted]

The metal under the Delrin is 1/8" Stainless Steel. Curious though that you don't feel aluminum will support the load but don't question the use of totally unsupported plastic or the point load applied by the 3/8" bolts BlueB used.

Speaking of which, doesn't the use of 2 bolts rather than a through-bolt essentially create a kind of hinge point putting additional stress on only 2 of the mounting bolts? I would think a solid shaft helps spread out the load between the 4 bolts holding the UHMDPE to the board.

[Jack Michaud]

Good luck DIY'ers, and I mean that sincerely. Bruce Varsava was telling me at the ECES that a bunch of his fellow provincial racers were home-brewing Apex knock-off plates by cutting up old snowboards, and that most of them were having a lot of trouble. I guess many were too flexible, and had improper axle placement. The action of the plate and the board would actually combine to a detrimental result, worse than having no plate at all.

I look forward to hearing from you guys this winter!

[Boarder_Ted]

I hear ya, Jack. I looked at many of the designs and felt Sean's was the right combination of design/strength/simplicity. It was also something I could actually stand a chance of duplicating in my shop. As for stiffness, I did originally build it from an old K2 Fatbob with no additional support. It was like being on a trampoline. Way too much flex. So I stole yet another idea from Sean and ran a maple stringer up the center on the underside. It stiffened things up nicely. I feel much better about it now.
The placement of the axles was in part dictated by the inserts on the board. I think it'll be ok. The binding center is just onboard of the shaft. I can work with the position slightly, bringing one foot or the other more directly over the pivot but I'm starting here. I guess we'll see. I have virtually nothing invested except time, with most of the materials being things I had kicking around. I think I spent $7 on the stainless axles.
And seeing as how you're just up the road, if you're nice to me, I might even let you try it out.

[BlueB]

I transfered the answers to your questions into the "Plan-B Plate" tread.

[MUD]

Good luck DIY'ers, and I mean that sincerely. Bruce Varsava was telling me at the ECES that a bunch of his fellow provincial racers were home-brewing Apex knock-off plates by cutting up old snowboards, and that most of them were having a lot of trouble. I guess many were too flexible, and had improper axle placement. The action of the plate and the board would actually combine to a detrimental result, worse than having no plate at all.

I look forward to hearing from you guys this winter!

[BlueB]

I guess many were too flexible, and had improper axle placement. The action of the plate and the board would actually combine to a detrimental result, worse than having no plate at all.

With the systems that mount on 4x4 patterns, you do not have to many choices, at least not going super wide like with outer set of UPM. So, if one's stance is not too wide, binding centers can be just inboard from the axles. Guys riding narrow stances have few more options.

[jburrill]

Really cool to see all the new designs. Id love to see a hardware kit that could adapt to home made plates.

[pokkis]

You can take Donek hw-kit and put it your own plate.

[Jack Michaud]

And seeing as how you're just up the road, if you're nice to me, I might even let you try it out.

And you could take a ride on my Bomber ------ Plate. (name to be revealed soon!)

[xy9ine]

Really cool to see all the new designs. Id love to see a hardware kit that could adapt to home made plates.

indeed. i'd be all over that. great way to recycle dead old decks. though i can see a manufacturer reluctant to sell hardware only due to lack of implementation control leading to the possibility of poor performance, failure, etc. all sorts of fun liabilities. still...

i'm assuming the donek hardware conversion kits don't have all the necessary bits for a diy plate (ie, there's some common hardware between the two mounting types). correct?

[Boarder_Ted]

And you could take a ride on my Bomber ------ Plate. (name to be revealed soon!)

Great! A little compare and contrast going. I love it! Do I get to ride the Kessler too? Oh wait...you sold that one. lol

[Boarder_Ted]

i'm assuming the donek hardware conversion kits don't have all the necessary bits for a diy plate (ie, there's some common hardware between the two mounting types). correct?[/QUOTE]

I would not be able to use Sean's "hardware kit" on my plate. He builds metal reinforcements into his that my plate does not incorporate. Afraid his hardware would pull right through a homemade plate. Unless you made it from scratch....

[Donek]

The metal under the Delrin is 1/8" Stainless Steel. Curious though that you don't feel aluminum will support the load but don't question the use of totally unsupported plastic or the point load applied by the 3/8" bolts BlueB used.

Speaking of which, doesn't the use of 2 bolts rather than a through-bolt essentially create a kind of hinge point putting additional stress on only 2 of the mounting bolts? I would think a solid shaft helps spread out the load between the 4 bolts holding the UHMDPE to the board.

Maybe I'm missing something. I guess I'd have to see more detail on this.

[Boarder_Ted]

Maybe I'm missing something. I guess I'd have to see more detail on this.

Well you can see it here

[BlueB]

Just wonder, why you did the elaborate wing shaped bases? Bigger dead spot and potential to point load a board with metal top sheet...