Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems

[lowrider]

Still waiting for anyone to commit tinkler vs apex less than two weeks to decide.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Just a quick crop from the vid, for those who wouldn't believe the long front extensions had dampener below. I'm shure that Apex has something similar, if not a big chunk of neoprene that I speculated before...

YOU were correct. It was not for advertisement
I would like to show you more of the mechanism. That will have to wait. Check out the videos for some strong hints.

Keep in mind, there are multiple systems using Tinkler plates. They are not the same. Mike works with others to build what works with their systems. Got an idea? Money to spend? Mike will be happy to work with you to build out your ideas. Warning, proto types are not cheap.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Still waiting for anyone to commit tinkler vs apex less than two weeks to decide.

I know my favorite. Unfortunately there are allot of factors in addition to the plates. I.E. Riders??

My hope is a US PGS rider on the podium. Then it is automatically a Tinkler plate on the podium.

They have their work cut out. Ben has been hot along with several Canadian riders. Yes, very exciting.

[lowrider]

If the weather doesn't turn around and the and hay bales start poking out John Deere or McCormick might have to come up with some new device ! Thousands of spectators turned away from boarding events due to instability of viewing area bummer for those traveling a distance to view friends in event.

[SunSurfer]

From a purely mechanical point of view, in theory the Apex should work better because it has almost no footprint on the board. As far as I can tell, it basically contacts the board at two lines (bars), so the rest of the board is allowed to flex naturally. The rear bar appears to be fixed and the front bar appears to be able to slide or roll in a slot. Great concept.

Jack, I had formed the opposite view of the Apex i.e. fixed, pivoting front rod, with rear rod pivoting and sliding/rolling in a slot.
Do you believe there is an advantage to fixing rear?

I note that the photos of the F2 Conshox plate http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulleti...8&postcount=33 shows it attached with front fixed, though I can see no structural reason why it couldn't be attached the other way.
The Karl plate appears to have predated the Apex plate in concept. It also has two narrow attachment plates across the snowboard, but I cannot tell whether both pivot points also float, or just front, or just rear.

[Jack Michaud]

Jack, I had formed the opposite view of the Apex i.e. fixed, pivoting front rod, with rear rod pivoting and sliding/rolling in a slot.
Do you believe there is an advantage to fixing rear?

The hits to the board and rider come from the front of the board, so the front should be floating. This is how WC racers set up their Vist plates. Fixing the front and floating the rear will do something, but it won't be as effective. Consider mountain bikes. If you couldn't afford a full-suspension bike, would you rather have only the front or rear suspension?

I note that the photos of the F2 Conshox plate http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulleti...8&postcount=33 shows it attached with front fixed

user error?

[WinterGold]

There are even very good riders who set up their Vists differently. I think it is also a matter of your riding style and preferences. Some fix the middle on the Vist and let front and rear float.
I think the important thing with the "new" plates is that they can compensate or increase certain aspects of your individual riding style. See the different setups for Anderson and Lambert or Karl´s plate which doesn´t suit Grabner supposedly.
Some riders are extremely centered. Others tend to bend their upper body more and so have more pressure on the front, etc.
Plates can help in various ways.

[Jack Michaud]

There are even very good riders who set up their Vists differently. I think it is also a matter of your riding style and preferences. Some fix the middle on the Vist and let front and rear float.

I have heard of that too, but I've never heard of racers fixing the front....?

[lonbordin]

Apex Snowboards Flexiplate

Two "Apex" plates, sigh.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Jasey-Jay Andersen Plate System Described in Detail

http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions...02211830_2.asx

[bjvircks]

the absolute least he could have done is have the decency to speak english!

[bobdea]

Jasey-Jay Andersen Plate System Described in Detail

http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions...02211830_2.asx

boy, that video does show the advantage of a plate, watching how little was being transmitted back to his legs when the board was all over the place.

so, anyone want to translate that?

[bobdea]

Vist Plate in excellent condition , used , including shipping to all lower 48 States for 450$ delivered. Save 100$ or so off new.

lol, that's a good translation.....

any more details you can share on the new tinkler ones?

[Keyser Soze]

Someone may be able to tidy up the tech sections a little, but here's the translation:

His kingdom is the mountain.

His universe is snow.

His life is alpine snowboarding.

At 34, Jasey-Jay is a snowboarding veteran in this country. A four time World Champion, the Quebec rider is only missing an Olympic medal.

His dream might materialize thanks to a little piece of equipment, his plate.

"I've always had equipment trouble, and now the little problems are simply adjustments, not actual problems"

Surrounded by snowboards and technology, he has completely invested himself in the development of a special plate that you see here strapped to his board.

This is the result of months of design and testing with his colleagues.

This board could make all the difference in Alpine Snowboarding for the Canadian team.

"The plate looks a lot like the plates you see on skis, but but we've developed a mechanism that adapts better to a snowboard. The idea is to build up torsional energy in the board, and for the board to have a more natural movement"

IN PGS, the athlete's talent is alternating and accelerating through turns, kind of a weight transfer game. In competition, along the curves and terrain of the track, the board is subjected to serious torsion and flexing. These powers sometimes work against the pressure applied by the rider, forcing him to lose control. That's what the plate attempts to correct

"The energy built up is better controlled with a plate, Much less jerky (he literally said "jerky"), less counter-forces are created."

***ANIMATION***

On a traditional board, the feet mounted directly to the board create pressure points and limit the flex.

"So you're working against the board, because the board tries to flex towards you through the turn, and you're trying to flex against the board. The plate disassociates the two movements."

With the long, stiff carbon-fibre plate fixed to the board, the pressure exerted by the rider is applied to a wider surface.

***ANIMATION***

When fixed to the board, pivots and anchors are going to move in plate's runners. The board will thus be able to act freely to the torsion and flexing movements as they go down

(Jasey bending the board) "Making noise, that's beautiful music."

"A natural curve equals speed. I mean, as soon as you have a distrotion in the natural curve, it creates friction which reduces speed. The plate lets the board take it's more natural curve".

The plate gives the rider better control of the board through the turns as well as absorb the vibrations of the track.

Jasey-Jay tried his new plate last fall. Since then, Canadian athletes have been accumulating podiums finishes in the World Cup, as they did here; in Telluride, USA.

Of course, Canada isn't the only country with a plate system, but JJA believes this plate could be more effective than the others. That's why they've been trying to disguise the plate from any preying eyes.

"Here you can see; it's pure carbon-fiber, which is very nice, so we've made it ugly and less attractive to discourage other people from wanting to copy it, and for it look more simple. We used "vélo trip" (something to do with a bicycle) to camouflage the side, because it had to be flexible, and for the mechanism to still be able to work. Also, it's really ugly. Same with our faux-wood sticker, it was just there for camouflaging purposes."

Will the plate make the difference between his 5th place in Turin and a podium in 2010? Jasey-Jay hopes so.

"It's going to make a difference in Vancouver for sure, it's what we've been working so hard for. The idea is good, the concept is good. We've already seen results with plates that are far less advanced. So... This is a winning recipe."

For Jasey-Jay it would be the accolade of accolades before his olympic retirement.

[bjvircks]

OK... Olympics have come and gone... can we see the Apex system now? Please?

[SunSurfer]

Front of plate slides relative to the board, now to see the rear.

SunSurfer

[BlueB]

Hey, he's got something white under those F2s!
Extra damping?

[CarvingScooby]

Hey, he's got something white under those F2s!
Extra damping?

Yeah, it looks like it's a raiser/cushion, the plate isn't giving enough dampening I guess

Found underneath Nicolien F2 binding, is it same?

RT

[CarvingScooby]

Found these pics of Nicolien after the game.

Anyone can help?

Thanks
RT

[Shred Gruumer]

Now its time to work on getting affordable for the rest of us.. Will we see the plates be usable with a standard 4 hole pattern or are we seeing the beginnings of different hole patterns for different plates.. which would shuck!

Just need Bruce V to make a plate.. at least we know it will be affordable..!!! If you leave it up to Europe all your going to get is way overpriced stuff and then half goes to shipping!! At least we get to look forward to lighter plates instead of draggin around a Boat Anchor!! not to mention the chair lift torture ride on the knee..

I believe the old F2 conshox had an actual wood core and constructed with glass.. Not sure.. but I had one.. but did not cut it apart.. seems there should be away to make it less expensive.. I can't believe the Vist is so much.. if you look at the material.. two aluminum plates an plastic side rails....$500 bucks?? whaaaaaa

RSS

[lowrider]

I think the results prove the next level in boarding will come with a well matched plate and board system. Agree or Disagree ??? The fact that not ever winner in every race rides one but the fact you can charge harder and not suffer the pounding that can throw you around will eventually convince most to embrace them. Challenge to all tinkerers "create an open source link to design and build the next generation plate for the masses".

[Jack Michaud]

I'm still wondering what's with the big long "diving board" part of the plate that sticks out in front of the front binding. I saw yesterday during the race that there is nothing underneath it, no bumpers or anything. So is it supposed to contact the board when the board bends up a lot? Or is it a tuned mass damper?

Shred, remember my email?

[Shred Gruumer]

All these boards with all these inserts are looking like swiss cheese!!

Im sure the revolution has started.. Im sure if you get an economical damper plate board system, it will fly.. I think I saw on Tylers system it had bumpers in the front of the plate.. Man 3 sets of TD3's and 3 plates.. thats gonna cost me..

I think if its priced around $150 they will sell...hint... Ok $250 but thats as high as I go.. ... maybe....

RSS

[Seb]

from what I saw at the game the white things under jasey's Bindings is cutting board. And also I heard the apex plate will be sold for 1000$

[bjvircks]

Bingo! pretty much as I expected. The 2nd photo in post 107 best shows the front attach of the apex plate.

Jack, I think that when the front of the board gets to a certain amount of flex the front of the apex plate contacts the board. this causes the apex plate to flex, creating increased force into the board at the attach point. This in turn causes more flex in the center section of the board, in a sense offloading the front of the board. Or maybe not... it all depends on a combination of the location of the binding, the location of the board attach, the length and stiffness of the diving board out front and the stiffness distribution along the length of the board. All of these are obviously custom tailored to the rider through trial and error.

However, I see a very modestly priced adaptable version of this system being available to the recreational rider very soon !


What this system does is allow the rider's stance to be what the rider needs and the board's loading points to be what the board needs. In this way both can be optimzied to work with each other rather than conflict. EDIT: Also... and perhaps most important... plate stays essentially flat most of the time yet board has natural flex (and torsion?) along full length (no dead spots).

[bjvircks]

I really want to get a close look at the slots and pins underneath the bindings! The teaser photos we've seen so far only whet the desire.

[Maciek]

The hits to the board and rider come from the front of the board, so the front should be floating. This is how WC racers set up their Vist plates. Fixing the front and floating the rear will do something, but it won't be as effective. Consider mountain bikes. If you couldn't afford a full-suspension bike, would you rather have only the front or rear suspension?



user error?

Well as far as I remember that is hit during turn entry phase that's so important if I am correct. that explains.

I thought of more when rider sits more to the rear to accelerate and when "rear" foot gets more load then... perhaps it does not matter as much as driving tip precisely with no hits, but I thought it could give some less stress to legs. This is especially when someone has line that crosses others going through ruts

Anyway perhaps riding technique has changed a lot over time of my absence

[Maciek]

Some of the boards with combination systems of TNT Boards + Plates and Snow Stix = Sweet ride.

It reminds me 3D finite element designed developed Nitro board that was not flat on top. It was around '98/99. Many said it was chattering anyway.

[xy9ine]

I'm still wondering what's with the big long "diving board" part of the plate that sticks out in front of the front binding. I saw yesterday during the race that there is nothing underneath it, no bumpers or anything. So is it supposed to contact the board when the board bends up a lot? Or is it a tuned mass damper?

random guess from a neophyte - maybe provides a leafspringesque two stages of board stiffness. ie, when the board is front loaded, the plate prevents the board from excessive flex / folding, while allowing a softer board flex (that might track rough snow better than a stiffer deck) than you could conventionally get away with.

[bjvircks]

from an Apex video