"Cruising speed"

[Dave ESPI]

carving.

Big hills with a lot of open area and few people, we can rip it and not worry.

Small crowded mountains, we have to avoid people too.

SPEED REGULATIONS are set up on a lot of mountains.

SAFETY is key.

So what is a "cruising speed" and where does your board "come alive" and respond and how hard do you you have to really press your self into it to cause it to perform?

I already am well aware of how "fast" I can rip a hill and have many witnesses and other riders who can attest to it, but this year I think I need to slow it down almost to a crawling creep "slow-motion" dramatic carve so people see the technique. I want to hold onto both edges as slow as possible and for as long as possible.
I'm looking for a board that will carve really well around 25 mph, and still be stable and turnable in a small area.

[BadBrad]

I suppose it depends on the board and individual riding style. I usually prefer a shorter turnier board like a slalom type board. I like to make lots of tight turns at moderate speed. But then I almost never get to ride on a big uncrowded mountain -- generally just small crowded hills.

[Jack Michaud]

Never been in front of a radar gun. No way of knowing. Ever been in a boat with a speedometer? 35mph feels like about 60. Could be the same on a board, who knows.

If they're regulating speed on black diamond runs, it's time to find a new mountain.

I'm looking for a board that will carve really well around 25 mph, and still be stable and turnable in a small area.

Madd 158.

[KingCrimson]

One of my mammoth videos..you can clearly see me..barely moving, then start carving. No wax, sticky June freshies.

I figure the Burton folds up at about 10, since I've never carved faster than that!

[Gecko]

Speed...its relative to the hill, if you have to apologize then you are definitely going too fast. Other than that I think control means more to most people than how fast you appear to be going. I had a huge offseason downhill skateboarding and was expecting a significant change in my comfort level with speed...who knows now

[willywhit]

How's the rehab tony ?
I usually just wait until the hill is semi clear of people before I bomb down. Never tear around blind corners or over knolls where you can't predict what's waiting for you. Riding with guys that are generally faster than yourself is a great way to push your comfort level and improve your riding.
ie I get a lil scared sometimes trying to chase Gilmour and his ilk, but it's so fun to push the envelope.
that's my fav part about carving, just going mach 2 on a rail and feeling the GGGGGGGs in the knees

Faster, You Fool, Faster !!!!

[pebu]

I enjoy doing the same with a friends kid who is on the ski team. He just turned 16, but he can carve pretty good on a pair of sticks. We play follow the leader where the leader tries to lose the follower. We're both right about at the same level carving-wise so it doesn't matter who is in lead, but we both get some good practice doing it.

[Steve Prokopiw]

commitment to the awesome feeling of dropping into a new turn on a steeper slope.My favorite run of any I've been on is right here at Silver Mountain.It is roughly 30-35 degrees at different points and right beside chair 3,which,of course,pumps me up to perform for the onlookers.The groomed width is about 1 1/2 to two cats wide and my 185 proton and 182 coiler fit just fine.The patrol used to give me a little crap about speed until I showed them my decent rate was slower than the average 'in over his head snow plower'.The last couple of seasons I've gotten as many hoots from them as the tourists on the lift.It helps that I wait my turn when gapers are coming from above,and give a head start to those below me.

For years this type of riding and the tactics and skillset involved have,for me,replaced high velocity bombing as the most addictive part of hardbooting .The next most addictive part is how much 'chicks' of all ages seem to dig it.

[xxguitarist]

I'm looking to step up to a board that can handle some more speed, but I'm going to be keeping my little F2 speedcross for the local hill. It's soft, seems to be fairly forgiving, and it turns circles around all the snowplowing slalom cones.

[Dave ESPI]

Having been actualy "clocked" by Safety patrol and mountain ops (including a CO-OWNER of the mountain) at 44 mph and I was not even going as fast as I have elsewhere (for a fact I know) I was stable at that speed, but the question is at what speed should we try to be at while just being "comfortable" on a run?

20mph?

Obviously it all depends on the rider and the board and traffic and surface conditions, but I'm asking because I (we) are "targets" due to the way in which we tranverse the entire hill.

After an incident lastyear, I'm scared that "carving" will be not allowed, and I whole heartedly agree that the rate of descent is the hinge point, so we need to look at overall speeds and just a comfortable "ride" speed that
will still achieve the same carve style, but not the "wow thats fast" imagery with it when they nail us with a "speed check" radar gun checkpoint.

[trailertrash]

Having been actualy "clocked" by Safety patrol and mountain ops (including a CO-OWNER of the mountain) at 44 mph and ...

It wasn't the same radar gun used here was it? I think those guns need some calibration!

[Dave ESPI]

hahahhaha(zing!)


Nah not the same. But still held by "BADGERS!" one in the same as Paul Maloney (the man known as "grey squirel" up at Jiminy) is an owner and also a local Police officer and an avid downhill skier.

I guess I still have a "problem" with getting caught for speeding no matter where I am... hahah.

[Pow]

Dont you have enough carving boards now, espi?

[Dave ESPI]

Pow, I'm still searching for my "NEO".....

aka "The One"

[EnisiWaya]

aving been actualy "clocked" by Safety patrol and mountain ops (including a CO-OWNER of the mountain) at 44 mph and I was not even going as fast as I have elsewhere (for a fact I know) I was stable at that speed, but the question is at what speed should we try to be at while just being "comfortable" on a run?

20mph?

Obviously it all depends on the rider and the board and traffic and surface conditions, but I'm asking because I (we) are "targets" due to the way in which we tranverse the entire hill.

After an incident lastyear, I'm scared that "carving" will be not allowed, and I whole heartedly agree that the rate of descent is the hinge point, so we need to look at overall speeds and just a comfortable "ride" speed that

will still achieve the same carve style, but not the "wow thats fast" imagery with it when they nail us with a "speed

Dave the key thing you hit upon is imagery! From my years in robotics engineering, radar guns measure speed at a single point in space time. The run down the mountain is a continuously varying speed/time/energy situation.

Change their perception. With rare exception 0.001% ski patrollers run the fall line almost straight down. tail swishers and even the carvers usually don't go more than 15% out of the fall line.

At KIng Ridge we had a beginning of the season challenge (helped by having one snowboard patroller and a marketing manager for the mt who was both.) this was the deal the steepest wide trail on the MT Six patrollers six hard boot snowboarders. timed run . all turns had to be smooth and linked, no side slipping and skidding allowed. Slowest times from top to bottom win.

The carvers made full Christmas Ribbon candy turns using the whole trail width. Obviously we were last to the bottom.

PERCEPTION: WE WERE "SLOWER" ON THE TRAIL THAN THE PATROLLERS.

End of hassle. All perception of speed. The reality was at all times during the run our ground speed/radar speed was much faster than theirs. We just tracked maybe three times the yards of distance they did.

Perception perception perception.


This did allow us to work with patrol on a Safety awareness campaign RE: the fact that the person furthest down the mountain going laterally, or even if coming up the mountain has the right of way. It did help that we had a strong telemark gang who were also making turns back up the hill.

LOL

GWS

[philw]

I thought everyone used GPS to measure speed these days. Watch out for some obviously erroneous results with badly performing interpolation/ moving average on some units, but mine's always produced a reasonable result.

You can't put much speed down at a resort as we all know. But riding just a little faster than everyone else works pretty well.

[Cuban Carving Gooding]

The last couple of years A have used A GPS unit. I have found riding my Madd 170 carving say EDS run or Big Ravine at Big mountain and Olympic,Big Dipper and Stagecoach at Heavenly I reach 34-38 mph. The Madd 180 bumps it up three or four mph. Even on steeper hills the speed stays the same as long as you link the same turns. Carving the hill equal toe and heal turns. Different styles will change the speed not the hill. I have gone much faster but my intention for the GPS was finding out the carving speed. I have checked my GPS with the car and my garmin and found all close in speed .The car reading low a couple mph.

[queequeg]

The last couple of years A have used A GPS unit. I have found riding my Madd 170 carving say EDS run or Big Ravine at Big mountain and Olympic,Big Dipper and Stagecoach at Heavenly I reach 34-38 mph. The Madd 180 bumps it up three or four mph. Even on steeper hills the speed stays the same as long as you link the same turns. Carving the hill equal toe and heal turns. Different styles will change the speed not the hill. I have gone much faster but my intention for the GPS was finding out the carving speed. I have checked my GPS with the car and my garmin and found all close in speed .The car reading low a couple mph.

I would think that a GPS would only provide average speed (distance/time), as opposed to actual land-speed, or at best, an approximation between the two - Am I missing something here?

Don't GPS's generally give you pointA --> pointB timed speed, regardless of what actual path you take to get there ... unless you are doing some MIGHTY big carves and the GPS gets it's location at least 4 times a second and is able to pinpoint with incredible accuracy, I think the GPS is probably just reporting your average speed, or at best something between land and average speed. But then again - I guess if I were correct, you would be moving faster than you say, pushing you well over 43mph ... which is pretty ****ing fast if we're talking about low/linked carving. I would suspect so maybe modern GPS's are pretty fancy now? Are they really this accurate?

[AK in PA]

The unit I have doesn't record speed. It only displays current, real-time speed...meaning I gotta have it in my hand and look at it on the fly. But, the readings that I've gotten have been very consistent between several glances repeated on the same runs on at least a couple of different days. ~27 mph on a particular green, and ~35 mph on a mid-blue. On the steeper parts of the blue, I was going too fast to take my eyes off the slope long enough to focus on the screen. Low 40's there? And screaming on blacks.... hehe... definitely too fast to try and focus on the screen, and perhaps the better for it since I probably don't want to know. Now, those are full tilt GO speeds under big-ish GS carves, which I still certainly wouldn't consider bombing runs. I haven't checked it when forcing tight arcs that get my body in the snow and end perpendicular to the fall line, but those speeds would certainly be slower. But back to how accurate is the GPS? Well, mine matches perfectly with my truck's speedometer, anyway.

[b0ardski]

If you take the same run with the same turns;
when you attach the gps to your helmet
when you attach the gps to your board tip
when you attach the gps to your board tail
when you hold the gps in your hand

just thought fodder

[skategoat]

Not the "speed" thread again. The attached image is from three seasons ago, tucking it on a mild, blue diamond run. On ordinary carving runs, I was averaging 60 km/h.

We go a lot faster than we think.

[pebu]

Holy ****, that can't be right!

I went out to walmart and got the hot-wheels radar gun made for timing your matchbox cars. I mean, come on, only 20 bucks. The fastest I've clocked myself (actually, clocking the light tower as I went past it) is around 38 mph I believe. I'm positive I've gone faster, but that's the fastest I've been able to clock anything.
Maybe it was 48 that I clocked myself at. Now I don't remember.

[Gecko]

That speed isn't that difficult to believe I've been near that speed clocked by both GPS and a state trooper's radar on my speedboard...

[skategoat]

Holy ****, that can't be right!

I went out to walmart and got the hot-wheels radar gun made for timing your matchbox cars. I mean, come on, only 20 bucks. The fastest I've clocked myself (actually, clocking the light tower as I went past it) is around 38 mph I believe. I'm positive I've gone faster, but that's the fastest I've been able to clock anything.
Maybe it was 48 that I clocked myself at. Now I don't remember.

pebu:

Hot Wheels Radar Gun? Isn't that what the state troopers use in Rhode Island? .

My speed is in kilometers per hour, not miles. 98.4kph is about 60mph.

That GPS is dead on when I test it against my car speedo and the GPS in my car. My buddy and I were doing speed runs on a really quiet day at a local hill. The hill is only about 500 feet vert and we were tucking the top 2/3 of it. I felt totally stable on my Coiler. My buddy, on the other hand, said his Hot Blast was squirrelly at that speed.

When I pulled the GPS out of my pocket and saw that max speed, I couldn't believe my eyes.

[Gecko]

just a point of clarification I was in CT at the time and it was actually a patrol car mounted LIDAR gun

[pebu]

pebu:

My speed is in kilometers per hour, not miles. 98.4kph is about 60mph.

I noticed that. It still seems mighty fast. I guess that must be the difference between 500ft and 300ft of vert.

[Dave ESPI]

The fastest known speed I've done was back when I was 24 years old, and was clocked at 56 mph during a race. I can "sense" that Ive gone faster, and can definately say I've "felt" faster on teh same board due to how the reactions and changes in board dynamics and overall "lightness" to my own body and the effects of gravity seemed to slip away once I hit around the 60mph mark for sure. That was on a 166 all-mountain board in soft boots.

I'd say Ive done around that speed on a hardboot set up and bombed a few trails in a tuck with other "racers" from my mountain hot on my heels a a few skiers just a few feet ahead of me, and felt completely stable. Then again perhaps the added 30 pounds of boot weight and gear under me and the shape of the board had a lot to do with it.

Its what scares the crap out of me as to how I will be on a 190.

Its like owning a ferrari in suburbia USA........... knowing it will do 180mph and only doing 55mph....... and never pushing it to "find out" keeps you safe and out of trouble, but we are men (and a few ladies) and we must always push the envlope..... LOL.

I just hope we don't end up like this:

[bobdea]

The fastest known speed I've done was back when I was 24 years old, and was clocked at 56 mph during a race. I can "sense" that Ive gone faster, and can definately say I've "felt" faster on teh same board due to how the reactions and changes in board dynamics and overall "lightness" to my own body and the effects of gravity seemed to slip away once I hit around the 60mph mark for sure. That was on a 166 all-mountain board in soft boots.

I'd say Ive done around that speed on a hardboot set up and bombed a few trails in a tuck with other "racers" from my mountain hot on my heels a a few skiers just a few feet ahead of me, and felt completely stable. Then again perhaps the added 30 pounds of boot weight and gear under me and the shape of the board had a lot to do with it.

Its what scares the crap out of me as to how I will be on a 190.

Its like owning a ferrari in suburbia USA........... knowing it will do 180mph and only doing 55mph....... and never pushing it to "find out" keeps you safe and out of trouble, but we are men (and a few ladies) and we must always push the envlope..... LOL.

I just hope we don't end up like this:

ehh, don't fret it. it's more like comparing your f1 to a to chevy cavalier at a 100 MPH the cavalier is not happy where the f1 is coming into it's out.

the big boards happily carve at the speeds we all ride at but many boards don't carve at. some are more versitile than others but a 8 meter SCR sucks at 45 MPH where as 16 is pretty happy.

[Jim Callen]

After an incident lastyear, I'm scared that "carving" will be not allowed, and I whole heartedly agree that the rate of descent is the hinge point, so we need to look at overall speeds and just a comfortable "ride" speed that
will still achieve the same carve style, but not the "wow thats fast" imagery with it when they nail us with a "speed check" radar gun checkpoint.

What "incident" are you referring to? They can't stop carving, they would have no legal way to define it, plus they'd probably get a ton of negative press should they decide to ban alpine gear.

[davekempmeister]

Dave, I'm a pretty big guy (215 lbs +/- & well over 6 ft.) and ride the same rossi both out west and at home in the east. The only sketchy moments I've had were at times when I was fatigued and stayed locked in a turn longer than I should have. Tail was sticky, my legs were dead - whatever. In that nano second that one decides to turn uphill in those instances it pays to have waited until the narrow eastern type trail is all your own.