View Poll Results: Ultimate powder board

Voters
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  • Go big, ride a Tanker!

    19 21.35%
  • Swallowtail, baby!

    36 40.45%
  • Banana Hammock..??

    4 4.49%
  • Burton Fish

    12 13.48%
  • Shutup and riide, man!

    9 10.11%
  • Yet to be designed

    9 10.11%
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Thread: Ultimate powder board

  1. #31
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    svr metioned the Gentem Sticks from Japan.
    The one he describes is in the NoBoard team quiver, sent back to Canada compliments of the Gentem'ers after taking them out NoBoarding in Japan.
    It is a great ride, but a bit heavy. Very stable but not super lively. Not ideal as a NoBoard, where weight is a huge consideration, but strapped in, the shape is hard to beat.
    You can be sure, no one on the hill is going to have one. You'll be on your own there.
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  2. #32
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    Winterstick

    Quote Originally Posted by utahcarver View Post
    Jon,

    It might just be me but, the D1 sure looks a lot like an old Winterstick roundtail. Albeit, with updated shape and technology. If the D1 is as agile and fun as the original WS roundtails were, I'd consider going that route.
    don't forget, Winterstick is still in business.... one of the 3 owners has a daughter in my daughter's daycare class. Went to her birthday party and saw his collection. Great guy.

    www.winterstick.com
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  3. #33
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    www.gentemstick.com

    Many of you will appreciate the sentiments and outlook of this companys owner / shaper.
    www.noboard.ca

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bola View Post
    Sandy:

    Still holding that Tanker for you. Will be in touch in October.

    Back on topic, the Dupraz 5'5" may work wonders in this size range; I think we are talking about a real surf machine on snow here.

    Bola
    www.allboardssports.com
    303-415-1600
    Yes Bola, I still want it...send me an e-mail when you are ready and we will settle the deal.

    cheers,
    sandy

  5. #35
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    "If somebody started looking at how to get below the surface?"

    Why do you think they call it the "UNDER" taker?
    Trimmed out at speed it cannot be seen.
    Trees aren't the goal on a bottomless day
    They're the commute
    Embrace the Face.
    Hook it Up, Crank it Over, Lay it Down... repeat as necessary.
    Carve all ways.

  6. #36
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    The most versatile that I have ridden for powder is without a doubt the 4807.

    The boat nose gives it a surfy feel without compromising the normal sidecut. IT also gives it a very long and soft rocker nose.

    the shorty swallow tail could be improved on a little by giving a little rocker for the occasional switch situation.

    that said there is nothing like a true swallow tail for screaming down a wide open face.

    I think you need to decide what terrain you are going to be riding the most and work from there.

    I would like to try a Dupraz shape with split tail and with a short swallowtail.

    the spoon nose can be wider without affecting the sidecut provided it happens after the rocker starts on the nose.

    love the stiffer board with soft nose concept of the 4807 the most.

  7. #37
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    Best powder board....

    ... is one that I acquired cheap enough to not care whether I ding it up or not! I am always thrashing my powder gear. "Skilled and stoopid" mode all the way on powder days.

    Both the 4807 1778's I own fit the description well, and no, neither of them is for sale

  8. #38
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    I don't think an Undertaker is anything like a Winterstick, they look and ride completely different.

    If you ever tried to ride a Winterstick on a groomer you will see a difference

  9. #39
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    Cool Ahem....

    Quote Originally Posted by softbootsailer View Post
    Is this thread about a Fantasy stick called the ULTIMATE POWDER BOARD
    or about what everybody currently has in their quivers?
    Riding on groom is totally different of course?
    I do not want to try and ride a winterstick on groom...
    This is neither. It is about one specific set of parameters, one board to ride deep unconsolidated powder, both tighter trees AND wide open faces. With stability at speed, and still able to slash the tighter stuff. Simple question is; can it be done? Is the tech there to accomplish it? I'd really like to hear from someone who has some time on a rockered board in deep pow, and hear their opinion. Everything I personally have seen leads me to think it is possible to build a board that will do it. As I said before, if it were just big open bowls, I'd break out the 181 Nitro Sabre and go. 2 feet or less, the 192 Tanker comes out, no brainer.

    Also, I do like to see what everyone is using as a powder board, unless it is a short Burton twin tip....been there, done that, too.
    Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.

  10. #40
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    I don't know where you ride but there are very few days that I can ride without having to spend some time on a groomed trail. I don't have access to a helicopter or cat so I have to ride a lift and groomed trails to get to them. having the ability to ride a groomed trail is important.
    I haven't found the ultimate powder board but I have a good variety of boards that work well for pnw conditions. I'd like to pick up a Pogo longboard and a Spearhead this season but I don't think they will be the ultimate powder boards either.
    Not all powder is the same, If we get dumped on with light snow I'll grab the Winterstick but if it's moisture content is higher and its heavier I'll ride something else.

  11. #41
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    Embrace the Face.
    Hook it Up, Crank it Over, Lay it Down... repeat as necessary.
    Carve all ways.

  12. #42
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    Best August Thread EVER!!!!!

    Bola, though it's been years since I've seen Mr. Milovich, I know that he is a very talented and decent human being who is admired and known by many people across the world. My comparison of the roundtail to the D1 was to demonstrate the genius of Dmitri many years ago and to show that 'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'. I've seen Bordy's/Phil's review of the D1 and I trust their judgement. The video 'splains everything, eh?

    Jack, I wish Winterstick would bring back the roundtail. I wonder if the Severe Terrain models are their modern-day answers to an old design. Next time you see this guys' collection, could you take pics and post them on BOL? I have no shame when it comes to this kind of stuff.

    I saw an advertisement today for this weekends upcoming ski/snowboard sales. The newest blurb to sell skis is 'rocker' and 'reverse camber'. I guess what is old is now new. If you were around when (Tom) Sims produced his 'Ultimate' models, all of them had rocker. Of course, they also had skateboard laminated-type constructon. Milovich designed his decks with rocker built into the noses.

    So, today when I was about my town, I grabbed an old pair of Wayfarer's to wear in the sunshine instead of my Oakleys to say, "Hey, what's old is new."

    Jon, please keep us up informed as to your quest. This is exciting to watch and read about.

    Mark

    Here's some local boys playing with 'reverse camber' and homemade hammocks.

    Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by softbootsailer View Post
    yea, I guess you mean this undertaker
    Hmmmm, looks just like a winterstick, that is original huh!
    Maybe you can get this to submarine like a pair of skis in sierra cement
    but then you would be on at least a 40 degree slope and of course in a massive avalanche...hence the name undertaker
    that board is nothing like a winterstick, ride one and you'd see

    they look similar but the other swallowtails like the rossis and nitros will pound through crust and wind pack nicely where the winterstick is scary on anything but the lightest of fluff.

    John dahl, the more you say the more I think you either need the rossi half gun http://global.skipass.com/gearguide/.../Half-Gun.html or a smallish tanker type board with a touch of taper but not much. wider is better in pow so that's something to consider as well.

  14. #44
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    Talking Mark...

    Thanks for the 6am entertainment! Notice how short they made those rockered boards? Granted, they weren't going really fast by binding mounted rider standards, but for noboard it was pretty decent.

    Bobdea, that is kinda what I am thinking, that length but a wider tip/tail and rockered.
    Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by utahcarver View Post
    Jack, I wish Winterstick would bring back the roundtail. I wonder if the Severe Terrain models are their modern-day answers to an old design. Next time you see this guys' collection, could you take pics and post them on BOL? I have no shame when it comes to this kind of stuff.
    It would be pretty easy for me to arrange an interview with him and get pics of his collection. It's on my to-do list.

    Putting myself in Winterstick's shoes for a minute, I would hazzard a guess that they figure the swally is the only powder board they need. I don't know what the functional differences were between a ST and RT, I would think the end result would be pretty much the same. Or maybe they don't want to bother with an RT because of the Fish and all its clones. I dunno.

    Here's some local boys playing with 'reverse camber' and homemade hammocks.
    That's almost what I'm talking about but imo they really missed the mark on length. Man I really want to try my Skurfer on powder now!!
    Last edited by Jack Michaud; August 27th, 2008 at 07:57 AM.
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  16. #46
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    That bindingless video shows why too rockered and too wide is likely not the best idea. With the exception of pearling the nose, they couldn't sink them properly.
    The rocker in those boards, like the hammock I rode, seems to want to make the board sit on top of the snow too much for its length (half the board is showing most of the time!), squirming around. The width is also trying to make it sit flat while the rider is trying to edge.
    I don't piss on fun and those boys are having fun. The ride just looks squirrelly to me. There are things I do like about their setup. The width in the air is forcing the nose back to the riders front foot, making drops easier and they've got the foot flips down.

    So you know, this is not fast, by NoBoard standards. Fast is fast. There is not one speed for one and another for strapless. It's just more catastrophic when you don't get it right and snow conditions are much more important.

    On the rocker thing, it seems to me that if your board has to take a rigid shape, like a surfboard, an old laminate snowboard or the wakeskate-type arrangement the PDS guys are riding, you have to build in the rocker or it won't "describe" a turn when you lay it over. A decent use-specific core flex will reverse-camber when you edge it AND it will still make an effort to keep edge contact if you run into hard snow.

    As far as "porpoising" your board when you ride, I like it to do this on request. If the profile forces me to the surface (rocker and a really wide nose) I loose ultimate control of my depth in the snowpack. The Winterstick was made in a time when the best riders could barely turn left, let alone right. Depth control? As surfers, they likely knew nothing about it. The ideal, modern shape should default to the surface under normal trim (Nose, but tail, too, just slightly less), but be diveable with the right, subtle hint from the rider. Unless you're a novice and need the float at all costs. Sure... there is a type of insane snowfall accumulation that might leave you wanting a wider profile, but it happens so infrequently, building your all-rounder to work perfecly here would be building a real bear to handle under "normal" 2-foot-o-fresh conditions.

    Jack. If you want to have a time, rope-free ride your Skurfer. If you want to have a GOOD time, leave it on the wall as a testament to what was thought of as performance in another day and demo a NoFish. Don't like Burton? Put surf deck on a shorter, freeride board and have at it. If you really like it, go to the site and get a proper pad. The material and knob profile work much better in powder than surf decking.
    Last edited by Rob Stevens; August 27th, 2008 at 09:21 AM.
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  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by softbootsailer View Post
    I liked the video, because it shows people falling trying something new...
    Why would you want or need your feet free to think you are skating
    or surfing? I am skating and surfing now on my snowboard and this concept
    on groomed would be insane with boards and bodies all over the slopes...
    This is the return of the Snurfer circa 2000
    I am not saying it would not be fun but is there not enough Surf and Skate
    commercialization already...enough cool clothes now?
    Sorry but I say no no no no no no no no no no and no
    I have no idea what you are saying here...you don't like the noboard idea or you like watching people flail?
    World's foremost apres-skier, 20 years running

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Dahl View Post
    Thanks for the 6am entertainment! Notice how short they made those rockered boards? Granted, they weren't going really fast by binding mounted rider standards, but for noboard it was pretty decent.

    Bobdea, that is kinda what I am thinking, that length but a wider tip/tail and rockered.

    You would do better with a 168 4807 than with a half gun. similiar tails and midboard feel but the 4807 has way more rocker in the nose and the midsection is stiff enough that it carves well in a pinch.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr D View Post
    You would do better with a 168 4807 than with a half gun. similiar tails and midboard feel but the 4807 has way more rocker in the nose and the midsection is stiff enough that it carves well in a pinch.
    yeah, that or a prior pow stick

    Gilmour claims the half gun carves up a storm
    the pow stick is supposed to as well
    do they still make the 4807?

    still would bet on a tanker or if you have a size ten or bigger foot tanker wide. I have the 177 and 187 both are good jack of all trades bow rides the 177 rules the trees, the only thing I can imagine that would be better would be a bigger wider taper board like a fish or a khyber. Been on the biggest fish and it's not enough for me but they do work so well in the trees
    Last edited by bobdea; August 27th, 2008 at 04:06 PM.

  20. #50
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    I almost picked one up off ebay on the cheap just to try it out. anybody else ride the Rossi halfgun? what about its big brother? I heard that there were quality issues but then they said the same about the 4807's and mine have never given me a problem.

    there are no 4807's being made currently although there are a few of the dynastars still out there in old new stock land. the later model osins with the ghost flames and the thicker wood grain striping are great. the earlier ones with the thin woodgrain stripes and no ghost flames had fragile noses.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr D View Post
    I almost picked one up off ebay on the cheap just to try it out. anybody else ride the Rossi halfgun? what about its big brother? I heard that there were quality issues but then they said the same about the 4807's and mine have never given me a problem.

    there are no 4807's being made currently although there are a few of the dynastars still out there in old new stock land. the later model osins with the ghost flames and the thicker wood grain striping are great. the earlier ones with the thin woodgrain stripes and no ghost flames had fragile noses.
    been on a undertaker, rips pow nice but does not like hardpack. it does however slay crusty pow very well

  22. #52
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    Here's Dredman!

    Jon,

    Check out this Prior 176 swallow on the groomers. It looks like with the Prior you can get two boards for the price of one!



    Mark
    Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
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  23. #53
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    Cool footage I Turner Mt.
    Where else can you park next to the lift with 20 open spaces???
    Last edited by b0ardski; August 27th, 2008 at 10:01 PM.
    N.I.C.E. at Schwietzer
    metal binders, plastic boots, powder snow, vive la glisse
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    Any cat can make cord. Only God can make powder." John E

  24. #54
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    I have a Judge (now called the Half Gun) and it does rip. It's very similar to a 169 3800 in shape and how it rides. I've never had any problems with this board or my 4807. I'd like to replace my 176 Pow Stick this year but don't want to pay retail for it, it was my favorite board a few years ago and I do miss it. I think it wasone of the best all around boards I've had.
    Jon, your welcome to try any of my boards let me know and I could drop it off on the way back from Baker.
    Last edited by refried; August 28th, 2008 at 05:16 AM.

  25. #55
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    Love the Pow-Stick!

    176 Prior PowStick narrowed down to a 23cm waist. Simply wonderful as seen in video. Powder, packed, or mixed conditions....Fun Fun Fun!


  26. #56
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    Here comes the Judge...

    Quote Originally Posted by bobdea View Post
    yeah, that or a prior pow stick

    Gilmour claims the half gun carves up a storm
    the pow stick is supposed to as well
    do they still make the 4807?

    still would bet on a tanker or if you have a size ten or bigger foot tanker wide. I have the 177 and 187 both are good jack of all trades bow rides the 177 rules the trees, the only thing I can imagine that would be better would be a bigger wider taper board like a fish or a khyber. Been on the biggest fish and it's not enough for me but they do work so well in the trees

    I was the Winterstick rep. I owned a bunch of Round tails and swallow tails. The winterstick round tail was the better board for tight trees and powdery monster sized moguls because the tail pivoted instantly. It was just barely tolerable on hardpack because the nose flared so much. The original Sims Fe series was also a swallow tail- as were so many boards like the burton cruiser (barely) and Flite.

    I've ridden them all in powder. Some of the best powder only (from heavy to light powder) were the Sims Fe Pro 160 and 170's (Best had Oak/ash cores...rare). The Winterstick swallowtail with powder skeg was an odd monster. If you ever did sink the nose... there was almost no way to bring it back up- you couldn't easily lean back and pry it up because it had so much surface area it worked like an anchor. If you had lots of pitch or speed then it was fine.

    I rode the Dupraz and struggled with it- forced it. I'm sure it would do well in Les Arcs.

    I bought the Dynastar- (liked my demo) but gave it away after 3 runs.

    IMHO the Rossi Judge 159 is still the best powder all around board. The tail never gets caught- good for tighter trees. It is surprisingly stable.



    I do claim it carves up a storm. lol....

    Especially when dialed in perfectly with a reasonably strong set of boots (not with overly stiff boots and highbacks which would prevent proper angulation) and bindings to keep the softer flex pattern in line to work as if the board were stiffer. You can make this flex like a pretty decent carving deck.........really.....

    It works well in light powder- loose crud, ball bearings, clumpy wet snow, rain, and slush- it even surfs well on water..lol..- I was one of only two snowboarders to make it pond skimming this year.

    BUT- the board needs strong rider input... you have to monitor that edge and set up perfectly or it falls apart.

    The flex pattern on the judge starts to feel stressed when carving over 25mph. You have to really feel the entire edge and pay attention... but if you do it works beautifully. The flex pattern is too soft for carving fast on chalk without having to really watch it.

    I could really improve on the edge hold with some carbon in the right places. As for durability- I'm shocked mine did not explode.. the worst enemy for my board was united airlines baggage handlers.

    The fiberglass is a lot better than what I am used to seeing in Rossi product..(surface resin stress cracked the crap out of the tail...but it refused to break or delam. I liked it. I even bought another longer one off of Bola- but I am skeptical about it. Longer is not always better. You can only go as fast as you can maneuver and slow down. Personally I'll take the car with super premium brake upgrade good suspension and tires instead of 20 more horsepower. (Meaning...I might customize my 159 with a carbon butterfly with a drastically new shape). The tail is too soft for serious carving... but if it was stiffer I likely would have snapped it off doing a boot grab high speed carve. Torsionally.. it is way too twisty. But given the materials and restrictions I think Jeremy Jones did a phenomenal job of designing this.... I would not at all be surprised if it is the single board design he is proudest of.

    The Winterstick swallowtail was pure misery on hardpack.... a knee destroyer. The severe taper constantly twisted you when carving high on edge on hard pack.

    What I liked about the Rossi Judge was the ability to charge on powder- not caring how deep it was so long as you had speed. Speed is the key to those boards.

    Powder behaves like a liquid...

    waterskiing- water behaves like a liquid.... until your fricking flying... then its like cement.

    I figure... I go fast enough to make the powder start behaving heavier anyway. Then you have the best of both worlds- support for your turns at speed and -a nice big pillow if you mess up.

    After going back from the Judge to a directional non swallowtail freeride..... I struggled to get through heavy snow- the tail felt like there was a dead 10lb weight on it. Not having the advanced set back of the Judge just made me fight the snow- incinerating my rear leg. I went from a 159 Judge to a Never Summer Premier T5 165 that was wider.... Yet- I felt more float and maneuverability on the Judge..... and I could carve better, go bigger... and tear through trees with more confidence.

    To me.... twin tips that aren't being spun constantly are nothing more than fashion statements (don't stray too far from the herd.... of be made fun of... I say "so what" ride the snow ...not popular opinion.) . IMHO most freecarving softboot carvers would rider better on a 159 Rossi Judge semiswallowtail (if they ride angled and have the right sized feet) than on the vast majority of directional freerides.... except maybe for some boardercross models I have not yet ridden... and then......well........... powder...///// well you give that up to the boardercross' decks overly stiff flex.... and then you may as well be on hard boots.

    If you want to ride soft boots on North East hard pack only.. a boardercross board is a good choice.

    PS. if any one is eyeing that last 2005 demo Rossi Judge at Out of Bounds... Vin Q already has it set aside for me. This year I'm gonna customize one of them... and hopefully have it for people to mess around on whenever they come to Aspen.
    ________
    K ENGINE
    Last edited by John Gilmour; March 9th, 2011 at 09:02 PM.

  27. #57
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    Rossignol Jeremy Jones Model

    John G:

    Have you ever ridden the Jeremy Jones model from Rossi? My buddy, a former Rossignol employee and devotee swears by the Jones deck for all things soft booting. In previous years, he had me hooked on the Rossignol Levitation which, though it had its limitations, was one of the best production all-mountain boards made several years ago, IMHO. I ran hardboots on my 172 and it excelled in powder and helped me learn how to carve a snowboard on cord.

    Your insights into the Judge indicate to me that a modern-day powder rider must have some savvy in how to select his/her weapon of choice. IOW, what I find to work for me on my mountain and conditions may not be the best choice for someone in BC or Vermont. As much as I advocate the Milovich designs, they were made specifically for a small window of opportunity as far as powder surfing is concerned. When Dmitiri tried to 'turn the corner' and make his designs cord-friendly or park-friendly, they simply did not translate for a lot of riders.

    So, does the Jeremy Jones Rossi have promise?

    Thanks John,

    Mark
    Last edited by utahcarver; September 2nd, 2008 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Change punctuation.
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  28. #58
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    I was just up at Mike Wiegele's heli op in Blue River on the weekend, riding some bikes off the swell new EuroCopter.
    In the shop we were pitting out of, they had some demo gear for the winter. I held and flexed a Prior Spearhead... That looks like my next powder board. Round tail, big nose, nice taper, but not too silly. Length (175) and weight (pretty light) were all bang on.
    For sure, it looks like one that will float like a bastard, but still trim to the surface. It also has a round, shortish (not Fish short, though) tail that a guy could pivot on like crazy, but still be there in a hard surface turn, or not sink too much off a drop.
    No pics, but I'm sure they're out there..
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  29. #59
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    Dupraz D1 179 Best board for me so far in powder but is fun for general riding as well. Works best with soft boots. I have spent a lot of days on it in both hard and soft boots and have decided it is best with soft boots. I have tried softer plate binding on it and still like it better with soft boots.I will always own one as I really like it! I am surprised that John G said he struggled with it as I feel it is easy to ride. You must ride it without loading the nose too much as it is designed to be ridden mostly with equal weight on both feet. I ride it with the recommended width marked on the board and my stance is not set back on the tail. I have not ridden it in trees much as I just don't spend much time there. I think this board is a great design and is fun! This will be season 31 this year and I will have fun with this board.

  30. #60
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    ooooooooh what a concept seems like it might be a little overkill on the narrow side though.

    I'd try it

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