Ultimate powder board

[nils]

Jon: i agree that lots of things have changed...but basics of snow not that much ( level of riders has increased yes too)..
As for lenght: what you get in a 195cm ST for example with a stiff flex pattern ( not the nitros for example), is also a board that is able to whistand very difficult terrains at various speed: the huge nose acts as a bumper and eats all the bumps, cruds etc that you get after an avalanche, or after the snow has been tracked a lot: its a bit like those new high speed 4WD that just float while bumpers do the work.
I'm not sure a shorter board aka 165-170cm range will have the lenght to master this ( short bumper in a way)..The main difference between modern ST and the Winterstick for example is in the flex and how the flex makes it possible to carve, absorb bumps, relaunch ( flattens the board back) after turns quick etc.. The shape is basically the same as its been for the last 25 years.
Also a big plus of the ST is its STail...faster you go more control you get like a fin in the water but no drag. I have tried a long freeride once ( not as long as 195 ok) and felt the faster i went, the less easy it was to be on the tail for it opposed pressure and would not sink...

cant wait for snow
Nils

[b0ardski]

Finally, someone has improved on the 15 year old Voile splitboard interface, on a board shaped like the halfgun. http://www.atomicsnowboarding.com/index.php?id=poacher

If this system could be made for hardshells, I'd be all over it.
I just bought a 169 atomic radon ct V-tail, can't wait to get it on the snow

[b0ardski]

Replaces the osin 3800 which I found too soft for all around with too wide stance options.
This board has 9 out of 10 stiffness for carving, & enough tail for switch.

[BlueB]

She's a beauty. Real veneer or just wood-grain print?
What's the waist / scr on it?

[b0ardski]

except the light color inset but I prefer this to most of the graphics I've seen
135.9 eff edge
31.1 tip
25.8 wst
30.5 tail
9/8.75/8.5 progressive tip to tail
9 0f 10 on atomics stiffness scale
I hope the snappy flex stays good for a while.
Anybody have a 1st hand review of the Atomics??

[utahcarver]

A recent sighting in Salty Peaks reveals a new player on the slopes. I spotted a swallowtail called a Powder Surfer made by DNAZ. I'm guessing the size to be a 185 to a 191cm length. The nose and shoulders were BIG (35-45cm) and the flex was very soft in the nose and tails. I asked for a price and was told that when the production models arrive (mid-October?) the price was going to be $650 US plus and that the board that I was holding was not for sale as it had something wrong with it. I asked what was wrong with the board and the sales-dude didn't know.

I went into Salty Peaks to fondle several swallowtails and make a final decision on what I would buy for this upcoming season. Now, I'm on hold until this board shows up in a few weeks. I'll have a camera on me next time I'm in Salty and I'll post some pics.

Mark

[Dr D]

Not sure how this fits in here, but as we all know the schtubbies have changed how we think of board length in carving. If you would have asked here about that idea in 2000, you would get a lot different input on the subject as compared to now. Sure, long boards are stable at speed in unconsolidated pow, but as design and materials have changed in the last few years have we put on blinders when we look at powder snow? This is the core challenge that I offered up in the beginning, and am not convinced that length is the only way to have that. Just some thoughts, as I ponder this.

I think you are right that a change in thinking is on the way for some. I have and ride a 196 nitro drew hicken swallowtail on the really deep days.

I also ride a 168 osin 4807 from the front binding forward they are almost identical in rocker and length. The biggest difference is that the tails are chopped short on the osin. I think a directional board approach has to concentrate on nose design and the long rocker is the key. the osin is stiff out as far as the effective edge extends and then soft to the tip whereas the nitro is soft all over. I think the stiff effective edge is important for control especially on a shorter board. the nitro is screaming fast and stable at speed but harder to control at slower speeds.

I know daveredman loves his prior swallowtail that is a little narrower and stiffer than the regular version. Its a hardboot design but I think the stiffer edges make it more controlable across the speed range without losing the high speed stability the long tails provide.

for all of them a long rocker soft nose is crucial. the long rocker keeps the nose off the snow in a carve as well negating most of the soft nose problems found in carving.

my .02

[photodad2001]

This would have to be awesome in some deep dry powder.

edit: Nitro Gun 181

[Dr D]

The local powder mafia has numerous examples of these in several lengths. The 181 is a great all around pow board. the longer versions require deeper dumps to really enjoy.

here's nick on a 181 out of bounds big mtn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJtEXVNNejg

how do I embed these things?

[Jon Dahl]

This would have to be awesome in some deep dry powder.

edit: Nitro Gun 181

This is basically what I have right now, the silver version.

[pokkis]

Not as nice wood surface as mine
but same awesome board for pow

[b0ardski]

Pokkis, that grain match is sik, someone spent alot of time on that baby
what kinds of woods were used to build that piece of art???

[Dr D]

there are like 4 posts missing between the last two on this thread

[Dr D]

somebody stole my posts!

[Jrobb]

Magistral

any update on Miura?

J

[pokkis]

Take look here to get all details
http://www.swellpanik.com/index_en.php

[pokkis]

Looks that my answer is somewhere

But here repeated:
Take look here to get all details
http://www.swellpanik.com/index_en.php

[nils]

mamma that wood job is incredible...
i also like the " vintage" series from the same shaper:

http://swellpanik.com/img/boards_07/vintage_big.jpg



Nils

[nils]

Updated the quiver yesterday
The Phenix Carbon 183 has made its debut in the home quiver...
On the first pic from left to right:

- Swellpanik amok 196cm, custom wood ( nut tree) job, no graphics..particularity is the wamp tail. Its definitely my fav board, outpowers anything there is in fast rides in the pow ( ok not skis)..
- Rossi 2003-4 198 Undertaker ( waiting for its first ride...). Pow days are rare, so i am not using this one
- A snowboards red and blue 200cm: pure straight pow lines at mach 2... not a very versatile board: no camber, very good in deep only.. The blue and red's were made in the canada factory when Regis had his deal there.
- Phénix snowboards 1.83 carbon swallow: double flex concept with full carbon sheet for juice...unridden yet. I have to measure it looks a bit smaller than the 183 announced..
- Swellpanik 1999 Magistral 185cm: my first ST saw lots !



comparison between the amok and the phénix:



tail concepts: very different: the amok tail is easier to sink and has a bit more lift ( tail rocker).. Since Sebastien Perret ( phénix shaper) was also Freesurf's and Bohème, there is similarities between the tails of those brands over the last 15 years.



the carbon baby:



Scoop ( nose rocker ) main quality of a ST or any good powder board: very low on the snow...The undertaker is the higher of them all. The amok and the A's are the flattest nose. They never get burried in the snow because of the long progressiveness of the curve...When i see people with twin tip 170cm boards in the snow with a very high nose, i know they will end riding on the back foot with straight forward leg, all the weight on the back trying to raise over the snow, fighting the nose that is pushing the pow....



Nils

[Gunnar]

I wonder why the "powder channel" tail like on Volkl's Selecta isnt used on real swallowtails. Im shure it would make them more versatile!

Todays ski designs have evolved from snowboards. But I think its time for the oposit now. The K2 Pontoons are by far the best off pist skiis I have been on. Im now waiting for a pair of Volkl Kuros. They are reported to be carvable in soft pist to!
I think they have close to the ultimate design for the allmountain powder/ slush/steeps/tight spots allso for a powder board.

[nils]

hmm simple: powder channel was tried in the early 80's and it proved it does not give more advantages than downsides.....it locks ability of the boards to slide on the groomed and is not really needed: the ST cut tail acts as a tunnel too as well as a fin ... i'll try to find a pic showing it
N

[Gunnar]

hmm simple: powder channel was tried in the early 80's and it proved it does not give more advantages than downsides.....it locks ability of the boards to slide on the groomed and is not really needed: the ST cut tail acts as a tunnel too as well as a fin ... i'll try to find a pic showing it
N

Can you explaine the slideing on groomed thing further?

I have experienced BIG problems to skid on my swallow in braking spring crust. The inside edges on the swallow was catching under the crust, and made it impossible to slide to a stop! A powder channel, or broader, and upturned inside edges on the swallow would avoide that problem.

I have not had the same problem on my Dynastar 4807. because the inside edges on the fishtail are less parallel to the centerline, then on a swallowtail.

What would the downsides of a powderhannel be, exept a little extra weight, if made high and soft/flexy enough. So the swallowtails could stil flex individually ?

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I think Sandy just recieved the "Ultimate Powder Stick"http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulleti...d=1#post210002

[Jon Dahl]

I think Sandy just recieved the "Ultimate Powder Stick"http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulleti...d=1#post210002

I know that I am thoroughly impessed! Now I need to get going on it's baby brother...oops, did I just say that??

[b0ardski]

178 or 188
either one could rule the harem, I mean quiver

I'm wondering about camber between the binders rather than flat???

[nils]

The issue number one with a powder channel ( aka concave tunnel right?) would be the loss of versatility for the board: it would be undrivable on the groomed, and appart from pure heliski, the board would be useless.
Another issue would be the hard times in crud when u need, in steep narrow crud places to skid, slide on the side ( eg: top couloir before an open face where u need to skid 10 meters on 2m wide track) the concave would rigidify the whole process... next thing: how to you grind a concave hull ? How do u press it? sand it etc..?

N

[Gunnar]

The issue number one with a powder channel ( aka concave tunnel right?) would be the loss of versatility for the board: it would be undrivable on the groomed, and appart from pure heliski, the board would be useless.
Another issue would be the hard times in crud when u need, in steep narrow crud places to skid, slide on the side ( eg: top couloir before an open face where u need to skid 10 meters on 2m wide track) the concave would rigidify the whole process... next thing: how to you grind a concave hull ? How do u press it? sand it etc..?

N

Ok.
Lets say we cut the soft powderchannel/concave/tunnel in the midle, like on a splitboard. So the tails can flex indipendently. Maybe even cut away the midle 1/2 half, like a narrow swallowtail, with bent up inside edges.
Do you still think it would it make any negative difference in versatility to a regular swallow or fishtail board?
Regarding, press, grind, sanding, and everything else: It works fine on the Volkl Selecta, so why not just scale it up..?

[carverchick]

Hey Mark,

I too can attest to the Prior Pow Stick and the fact that it really doesn carve. Before I got my 4WD, I primarily carved on my Pow Stick and I love it.

You get two boards for the price of one indeed. I love my Pow Stick

Jon,

Check out this Prior 176 swallow on the groomers. It looks like with the Prior you can get two boards for the price of one!

Mark

[carverchick]

Drools!!

176 Prior PowStick narrowed down to a 23cm waist. Simply wonderful as seen in video. Powder, packed, or mixed conditions....Fun Fun Fun!

[Jon Dahl]

178 or 188
either one could rule the harem, I mean quiver

I'm wondering about camber between the binders rather than flat???

More like 168...and a bit wider...and maybe a little camber betwix the binders. Not sure about the Snostix, personally, need more data. May have to wait for Sandy's first test rides and hear back to know better. I don't know how much harder it would be to do the camber/rocker combo and get it right, it may not be a factor. As a mostly deep snow board, camber is less of an issue for me.