Burton Step-Ins. Should I Worry?

[cassandtim]

First post here. Woot! Nice forum BTW.

I bought a set of Burton step-ins new in '95 or '96. I've put a fair number of "miles" on these (they're not really too worse for the wear) since then but I've been using the search function and came across a couple of posts that have me more than a little concerned.

I'm no wicked carver by any stretch. I've been hitting the hill with hardies since my first pair of hot pink Koflachs in '89 (or was it '90). I'm weighing in at 200 lbs and am currently riding an Oxygen FR166 with Burton Shadow boots. I've actually had, what I would consider, pretty good luck with these bindings. The step-in mechanism works pretty well even if it is a bit dated. I'm pretty good at attending to them and keeping them maintained & tight.

My question is: has anyone here experienced a catastrophic failure of these bindings?

While I'm looking at upgrading boots and bindings in the near future I would still like to keep these binders for another alpine board that I just picked up.

Additionally; has anyone had their Intec mechanisms freeze so that they can't unlock from their bindings? If so, how often does it happen? Does it happen often enough that I should be wary of buying the Intec system.

Oh yeah, one last thing. Anybody out there in the Portland, Oregon, area that gives lessons on general carving technique?

Thanks for the patience with the questions.

Regards,
Tim

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Welcome to the BOL forum Tim.

I am in Vancouver, ride at Mt Hood Meadows regularly.

Perhaps I can help answer some of your questions some time.

Email me directly with a phone number perhaps?

Bryan

www.finelineclub.com

PS, Check out the Pacific Northwest Ride board for activities and to learn the active BOL members in our area.

[patmoore]

If you're talking about the Physic Step Ins, I used them for about 8 years with no failures. The only annoying thing is the tendency to NOT release when I yank on the handle. In Davos last February I was at a mid mountain restaurant and REALLY needed to use the bathroom. The rear binding would not release. After 15 minutes of suffering I hit on a solution.

[carvedog]

Thanks Pat, that gave me a chuckle.

However if you are going to continue using your gloves as footwear might I suggest something more in the line of a gauntlet type glove to give better protection.

cassandtim.
curious - which step in do you have? Burton made a couple of different ones in the day.

Seems like they had a weird kind of cam over hoop thing that looked like a bear trap and then the Physics and ...?

Welcome. I am not local to Portland, but we have terrific carving snow in Sun Valley right now. Maybe you need a carve get away weekend? BTW I teach in hard boots for the mountain, but I am no way pimping you to buy lessons. If you make it over I will go out with any bombers for a few runs just to say hi.

[jtslalom]

Patmore,
Your board looks like a Vokl Renn Tiger, nice board. About the Burton Physics bindings. I have had some problems with mine in the past. The towers are the parts that connect the heel piece of the boot to the back part of the binding. On one binding a had ripped the towers off the rear binding in a heelside turn. If you look close you will find that the towers are seperate from the bindings and slide up through them through a slot. The bottom of the towers have a flat ridge where they fit into that slot. I sheared that flat ridge right off. This only happened once out of about 7 years where I rode as much as 63 days a year. Not to bad considering the number of days.

[pebu]

Seems like they had a weird kind of cam over hoop thing that looked like a bear trap

Known as the Rat-trap

and then the Physics and ...?

And carriers. The toe bail is fixed and the heel bail has the lever on it.
Those are the only stepins I know of, but then again I'm probably still considered a noob.

[b0ardski]

these are burton stepin race, affectionatly known as rattraps By those who have not caught they're finger in one


The carrier stepin has a cammed heel clip that flips up when stepped into, the "rattraps" have a spring loaded heel bail.

[cassandtim]

Boardski: Yep, I've got the Rat Traps, although, I've been fortunate enough to have never got my fingers clamped by them.

Bryan: I'll send an email with my cell phone number. It sounds like it would be good to talk with you as I learned to snowboard on a Burton Safari Comp I back in '87 (or was it '88, I guess I'm getting old) and I think that definitely qualifies as an "old snowboard". That was way back when bindings had 3 straps. I also have a number of specific questions concerning the Intecs and brands of bindings.

I recall reading some posts last night that made these things out to be a major accident waiting to happen. If somebody has first-hand experience with a failure (witnessed or experienced) I'd like to know as it would make me seriously think about mounting them on a freeride or back-up stick.

Still wondering about the Intecs freezing up and being stuck in the binding (I definitely don't want to try to wear my gloves as a shoe!). I'm considering a purchase this week and want to be somewhat sure of what I'm getting into.

Thanks again for the patience with the questions and all of the replies so far.

Cheers,
Tim

[yyzcanuck]

...Still wondering about the Intecs freezing up and being stuck in the binding ...

I'm not certain what you mean by freezing up but I imagine you're referring to a situation where you can't get the boot out of the binding. I have not experienced or witnessed this. I have also not witnessed (but have heard of) cables breaking. I think this is rare but many people carry spare cables just in case. Even if you do break a cable, with a screw driver or allen key in your kit, you can push the pins in through the heel receiver and remove your boot from the binding.

[trikerdad]

To answer one of your questions, I've never had my intecs freeze up. The front one gets a little tight sometimes but, has never failed to release.

[Art]

I rode rat traps for a few years, never had a "catastrophic"failure but did come out a few times, due to board flex and I suspect very cold temps causing the boot to shrink a little. I also had a cam break off at the weld. Fortunately this was all slow speed when it happened. got rid of them and went to TD'S. Some swear by them, but I feel my riding improved with the TD'S fwiw.

[queequeg]

Known as the Rat-trap

And carriers. The toe bail is fixed and the heel bail has the lever on it.
Those are the only stepins I know of, but then again I'm probably still considered a noob.

I have a pair of those old carrier step ins. I think I might have used them once, ages ago. Tried them once, and decided that I could not trust them. Sketchiest binding ever. I would not trust the health of my life and limbs to this bindings. If ever there were a snowboard binding designed to prerelease, this would have been it. Stay away.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Boardski: Yep, I've got the Rat Traps, although, I've been fortunate enough to have never got my fingers clamped by them.

Bryan: I'll send an email with my cell phone number. It sounds like it would be good to talk with you as I learned to snowboard on a Burton Safari Comp I back in '87 (or was it '88, I guess I'm getting old) and I think that definitely qualifies as an "old snowboard". That was way back when bindings had 3 straps. I also have a number of specific questions concerning the Intecs and brands of bindings.

Thanks again for the patience with the questions and all of the replies so far.

Cheers,
Tim

Cool Tim, email sent. I will get more coffee in me , then call.

Give you a quick over view of what's available out there and what I think are good options for you. You are already getting to glimpse into the benefits of being in the BOL community. Great guys with great info!!

[clebner]

I purchased a pair of rat traps new in the mid 90's and rode them about 75 days a season for 6 years before I wore the cam out. Now they will release with very little effort so they have since been retired. I have never had any problems with my intec heels sticking although I sometimes have trouble getting them to engage.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

If you're talking about the Physic Step Ins, I used them for about 8 years with no failures. The only annoying thing is the tendency to NOT release when I yank on the handle. In Davos last February I was at a mid mountain restaurant and REALLY needed to use the bathroom. The rear binding would not release. After 15 minutes of suffering I hit on a solution.

Now that ther is funny!!
Thanks for the laugh Pat.

Too good!


PS. Spoke to Tim. We will get him on some serious gear ASAP.

[pebu]

on the 10th my front foot froze so bad i took my foot out of the boot and threw it in the car with boot still attached. had to walk down the hill in my sock. the pushing the pins in trick didn't work even. they were flat frozen up

I don't know what temp bomber butter is good for, but I'd suggest packing those heels full with as much grease as you can get in there. Anything to keep the water out.

I have a pair of those old carrier step ins. I think I might have used them once, ages ago. Tried them once, and decided that I could not trust them. Sketchiest binding ever. I would not trust the health of my life and limbs to this bindings. If ever there were a snowboard binding designed to prerelease, this would have been it. Stay away.

That's funny cause I haven't had a problem with them. I have a pair of rat traps and a pair of carriers. I by far prefer the carriers. Haven't had any catastrophes with either yet, but I can tell the rat traps are getting a little tired. Only issue I've had with the carriers involves the toe bail not popping back up all the time (if I push it down, it stays down maybe 40% of the time).

[queequeg]

That's funny cause I haven't had a problem with them. I have a pair of rat traps and a pair of carriers. I by far prefer the carriers. Haven't had any catastrophes with either yet, but I can tell the rat traps are getting a little tired. Only issue I've had with the carriers involves the toe bail not popping back up all the time (if I push it down, it stays down maybe 40% of the time).

Maybe we were using different boots? Back when I had the Carrier step-ins, I was using them with a pair of burton megaflex boots. I found that they were fine as long as I was going slow and not applying any significant force to the board, but If I was moving fast and applying lots of force to the board the boot-binding connection felt sloppy at best. They were flexing to the extent that it did not feel like the bootheel was staying in contact with the board on both sides... (again, that's the step-in version I'm talking about, not the manual hand-closure version).

[paragonUE]

I bought a pair of used rat-traps at the beggining of the season, havnt had trouble with them yet, and have been railing them pretty regularly, just about every weekend this season actually, i have a friend with TD2's, which i rode, they are by far superior, but he has has his toe clip come off once or twice.

[SEJ]

I don't know about the carriers, but the performance step in's had the same "step on the chunk of plastic and the rear bail cams over" type of geometry. Never had an unwanted release. Even after all the crap broke I still rode them as rear bail bindings for a couple more years. Too much plastic in important places for them to last forever.

[yyzcanuck]

... the pushing the pins in trick didn't work even. they were flat frozen up ...

Literally frozen? As in water inside the heel rather than lubricant?

[pebu]

I don't know about the carriers, but the performance step in's had the same "step on the chunk of plastic and the rear bail cams over" type of geometry. Never had an unwanted release. Even after all the crap broke I still rode them as rear bail bindings for a couple more years. Too much plastic in important places for them to last forever.

Hmm... Maybe I have the performance SIs and not carriers... Now I can't remember.. What's the difference?

[Derf]

Hmm... Maybe I have the performance SIs and not carriers... Now I can't remember.. What's the difference?

Carriers: Plastic
Performance: Plastic with an aluminium plate underneath

[queequeg]

Carriers: Plastic
Performance: Plastic with an aluminium plate underneath

That seems like it would make a huge difference. The bindings I have are all plastic, with the exception of the bails, and the screws holding the binding to the board. Extremely flimsy.

[pebu]

I see... I have performance. The toe and heel blocks are cast aluminum, the plate underneath is aluminum and then there are the bails. The plastic parts are the lever you step on, the latch and of course the plastic over the aluminum...

[dano]

"Get your hands off me, you damn, dirty ape"

I find this deeply offensive...This sort of racial negativity only hurts us all.

[SEJ]

The chunk of plastic you step on is what failed on mine. I actually spent like forty hours building a new one out of stainless steel for the rear. It sort of worked. The flex of the plastic is part of the system, with the stiff piece instead of the plastic it only worked with very clean boots.
But, like I said, I ran them as manual rear bail bindings for a couple more years and NEVER had a release problem.
BTW I'm around 180#s

[queequeg]

The chunk of plastic you step on is what failed on mine. I actually spent like forty hours building a new one out of stainless steel for the rear. It sort of worked. The flex of the plastic is part of the system, with the stiff piece instead of the plastic it only worked with very clean boots.
But, like I said, I ran them as manual rear bail bindings for a couple more years and NEVER had a release problem.
BTW I'm around 180#s

I'm sure that having that baseplate in there on the performace stepins makes all the difference. On the carrier stepin, there is a ridiculous amount of flex in the baseplate due to the fact that there is no aluminum baseplate and it is made of very soft (flexible) plastic. I never actually released, but I'm sure that I would if I rode them for awhile.