First-time edge tuning.

[dshack]

So I got myself an Ultra Prime. I think it's got a 0/0 bevel, and I want to put a 2/1 on it. All I have is a 'tools4boards' edging tool with a file and sidewall planer, and gummi stone. Should I wait until I can get a good edger with diamond/ceramic stones to change the bevel, or go ahead and do it with this one? Do you have recommendations for edge beveling tools?

[trikerdad]

Get a set of proper tools. Try www.tognar.com I think the all in one tools are okay for touching up with fine stones but, to cut a new angle, you should use individual file guides.

[OffpisteHardboots]

Have you done a lot of edge tuning?? If you haven't I'd say stick with a 0 degree base (you really need a big base machine to do that right), adn just play with the edge angles (which you can adjust with a hand edge tool).

[dshack]

I've just messed around with it on my freeride board, which felt more carvable to me after I switched it from 0/0 to 1/2. I wasn't polishing the edges, though, just filing and periodically removing burrs with a gummi stone. Having gotten a new board, I want to do the edge tuning thing right. Is there a downside to a 1 degree base angle? From what I've read and experienced, it just gives you a slightly easier release without hurting the board's grip.

[Talex]

I have spent many years tuning in shops and I suggest spending
$30.00 on a $500.00 board to have it done right. If that is not
possible go to www.abc-of-snowboarding.com for some quality tips.
Before you start working on your board make sure you've cleaned
all the wax from the base this will keep metal shavings from
sticking to the base and getting into it. Very important,1. Clean your base
2.Work on your base and edges 3. Then pollish your edges with a diamond
or ceramic stone 4. Clean your base 5. Apply wax 6. Scrape the wax using
a plastic scraper the metal one is used for removing p-tex 7. Do not
leave piles of wax on your board to soak up garbage from the slopes
use a scotch brite pad to buff out all the remaining wax.

[Talex]

If you use the www.abc-of-snowboarding.com link you will need to go
to the info page and scroll down on the right you will find a link with
tuning tips.

Good luck

[kmagvette]

What Talex said...plus

I have been ski racing for way too many years and doing my own tuning along the way. The most effective and precise way to maintain your edges and bases is to let a good shop set your base edges and structure the base for your conditions. Do NOT let them touch the side edges. These are your responsibility. Mark your side edges with permanent marker to ensure they are left alone.

The reason you do not let the shop touch the sides is that if the operator pushed the front of the ski/board into the side angle stone a bit too hard you will get a concave area on the tip, usually at the beginning of the running surface. This is the part of the edge that initiates the turn and gets your board/ski arcing. I've had two race skis wrecked by different reputable shops that let an ape work on my skis.

There are many good tools available for setting the side edge angle. I prefer a tool called "The Beast". Using a coarse or medium mill bastard you can remove material in a hurry. Use permanent marker on the side edge so you don't take off more than you need to.

When there is just a little marker left on the base end of the side edge, switch to a fine file to finish the job. Let the file do the work - don't lean into it. You may want to use the marker on you edges a few times during the process until you get the hang of it.

Now polish the base and side edges with diamond stones.

Always use the same side tool. Assuming you don't trash your edges you can keep them razor sharp with diamond stones alone. I use the perm marker here as well to let me know I have full coverage - it will also show you where the edges are damaged if you are new to the tuning game.

When you are filing, file in whatever direction feels the best for you. Since you will polish the edges you don't care about the direction of the burr on your edges.

Hope this helps

[bobdea]

http://www.alpineskituning.com/
these tool work well and are cheap as hell

[Mike T]

http://www.alpineskituning.com/
these tool work well and are cheap as hell

They are great tools for what they are meant for - maintainence.

It would take all day to set bevels with them and you would have massive blisters on your hands.

DShack - if you can get down to Bend you can use my tools and I can teach you everything I know. Which isn't a huge amount... but I am personally happier with my own edge work than anything I've gotten in the PDX area. Your options in PDX are limited, very limited.

[Blackbird]

What Talex said...plus

I have been ski racing for way too many years and doing my own tuning along the way. The most effective and precise way to maintain your edges and bases is to let a good shop set your base edges and structure the base for your conditions. Do NOT let them touch the side edges. These are your responsibility. Mark your side edges with permanent marker to ensure they are left alone.

The reason you do not let the shop touch the sides is that if the operator pushed the front of the ski/board into the side angle stone a bit too hard you will get a concave area on the tip, usually at the beginning of the running surface. This is the part of the edge that initiates the turn and gets your board/ski arcing. I've had two race skis wrecked by different reputable shops that let an ape work on my skis.

There are many good tools available for setting the side edge angle. I prefer a tool called "The Beast". Using a coarse or medium mill bastard you can remove material in a hurry. Use permanent marker on the side edge so you don't take off more than you need to.

When there is just a little marker left on the base end of the side edge, switch to a fine file to finish the job. Let the file do the work - don't lean into it. You may want to use the marker on you edges a few times during the process until you get the hang of it.

Now polish the base and side edges with diamond stones.

Always use the same side tool. Assuming you don't trash your edges you can keep them razor sharp with diamond stones alone. I use the perm marker here as well to let me know I have full coverage - it will also show you where the edges are damaged if you are new to the tuning game.

When you are filing, file in whatever direction feels the best for you. Since you will polish the edges you don't care about the direction of the burr on your edges.

Hope this helps

Brilliant!! The permanent marker on the edge as you work is the key..

I use the Burton Fileguide kit for maintenance mostly...
Used it on a rockboard to practice my technique and it seemed to work really well....Patience is also important....
Something therapeutic in doing edge work and waxing your boards.....

[Mallard_with_a_Gun]

Wow, good question. I was wondering the same thing but as of yet am so ignorant about the whole deal I didn't even know what to ask or how to ask it. I love this place!

[dshack]

Maybe this is a silly question, but with one of the 90/88 side edge file guides (dakine, bakoda, or burton; they look like a 'T'), is the angle one side of the guide cuts determined by the number marked on the side in contact with the edge, or the side you can see when using it? The structure's kind of like

_|_

and you put a file through a slot at the bottom of the vertical part, in contact with the horizontal part. One side says 88, the other says 90, but I can't figure out whether the numbers refer to the angle of the side they're marked on, or the side that's cutting when you can see that number.

[DiveBomber]

what about this? edgetune

[Phil]

That looks awesome.

My first thought is that it would harden your edges (like heat treating). I guess that would not matter, though, because the tool would be able to handle hard edges.

I would love to hear what the experts have to say about this.

[dshack]

Consensus on this board last time was that it's a bad plan.

[DiveBomber]

what about the Swix stuff that most shops carry?

[skeez rule]

or a swix exactor or regular file guides some files and stones
one of the better and unique solutions is here http://www.alpineskituning.com/
not perfect but meets most peoples needs very well and is a cheaper solution than most

[kmagvette]

Balckbird, I would love to take credit for the marker trick, but I can't. My mentor in the ski shop turned me on to it.

dshack, those extruded aluminum file holders are for people with a lot of experience and time on their hands. You need to be very careful that you ALWAYS apply the same amount of light pressure to the file or you will change the effective angle of the file with respect to the edge you are filing.

The key to setting side edge angles is to use ONE tool for both setting the desired angle and maintaining it. The only requirementa are that the tool very securly hold the files and diamond stones that you will be using and that it is stable as it glides across your base. I have settled on the "Side of Beast" tool (available here) because it is easy to change the angles, it clears filings so they fall on the floor instead on onto your base, it has a largege surface area that rides on base making it stable, and it holds files and diamond stones rock solid.

There are other good tools out there as well, much is personal preference for the feel of the tool (not yours ) in your hand. Be leary of tools that use ball bearings or pins (like some swix tools) as they focus your pressure on the base and tend to put dents in it - especially as you are learning.

[dshack]

Which extruded aluminum guides are you talking about?

[bobdea]

Balckbird, I would love to take credit for the marker trick, but I can't. My mentor in the ski shop turned me on to it.

dshack, those extruded aluminum file holders are for people with a lot of experience and time on their hands. You need to be very careful that you ALWAYS apply the same amount of light pressure to the file or you will change the effective angle of the file with respect to the edge you are filing.

The key to setting side edge angles is to use ONE tool for both setting the desired angle and maintaining it. The only requirementa are that the tool very securly hold the files and diamond stones that you will be using and that it is stable as it glides across your base. I have settled on the "Side of Beast" tool (available here) because it is easy to change the angles, it clears filings so they fall on the floor instead on onto your base, it has a largege surface area that rides on base making it stable, and it holds files and diamond stones rock solid.

There are other good tools out there as well, much is personal preference for the feel of the tool (not yours ) in your hand. Be leary of tools that use ball bearings or pins (like some swix tools) as they focus your pressure on the base and tend to put dents in it - especially as you are learning.

yes, what he says about the pegs is true, but the swix tools tend to be easier to use, the ski sharp is better than the swix tools by a long shot and the beast is good too but by now things are getting pricier than what most people are willing to spend

[D-Sub]

When in Bend, check out "Race Base".

The Race Place is what ^^ meant.

guys know their stuff there. Me personally I think the 1st tune should be done by a pro, and then you do maintenance yourself. One pro tune ever season or every other or every three if you dont ride a lot

here's their site:

http://www.ski-racing.com/about.htm

[Mike T]

Thanks, yep, that's the ticket!

Pick up some nice lawn furniture or ski chairs while you are there.

The guy that does their grinds is top quality also. Can't remember the name.

Does some of the WC guys gear when it comes from Donek , pre race stuff.

I believe his name is Scott.

[kmagvette]

The Race Place is what ^^ meant.

guys know their stuff there. Me personally I think the 1st tune should be done by a pro, and then you do maintenance yourself. One pro tune ever season or every other or every three if you dont ride a lot

here's their site:

http://www.ski-racing.com/about.htm

Well I guess I've whacked my head so many time I forgot where I bought my Beast and it's toys. Race Place was the cheapest at the time (7-9 years ago) when I bought it. Sure these things are a little pricey, but the convenience of sharpening/maintaining when ever you want pays for itself real fast. Last I check, shops are getting a good buck as well. Break even does not take long and the tools last if you are nice to them.

I also love "Plane Beast" for shaving sidewalls when setting side edge angles for the first time. Sidewall material loads up the file and you have to keep cleaning it.

dshak - check out the "For Sale" forum, someone has a 3* holder for sale with a picture. Don't want to bash his product, they have their purpose, just not a good beginner tool.

[dshack]

So those are harder to use, even if you attach the files with a thumbscrew?

I'm hearing skisharp > swix, though I haven't heard much of a qualification. For either, if I'm looking to set and maintain good edge bevels on a Burton UP, how many and what grit of stones would I need to get? I'm not racing, I'm just going up once or twice a week and trying to teach myself to freecarve and have fun.

[dshack]

Bump, and another sort-of question:
As a beginning carver that just wants to lay deep trenches, what tuning at what intervals is really necessary? Riding an Ultra Prime, will I notice a performance difference between a fixed file and an adjustable one? Between a single polishing stone and several? There's lots of information out there on how to perform an optimal tune, but what do you all (especially the non-racers) do on a regular basis to your boards? What did you do when you first got it?

[Bullwings]

I bought a bunch of tools this season have been doing my own edge tuning regularly for the first time this season.

i pretty much went with all of the Beast tools. you should also pick up their instructional DVD if you have no clue what you're doing. for edge tuning and mainly for regular maintenance, i bought the following:

Side of Beast Pro w/ 1* and 2* guides
Base Beast in 0.5* 0.75* 1* and 1.5*
Swix 20 tooth/cm file
200 grit DMT diamond stone
400 grit DMT "..."
600 grit DMT
1200 grit DMT
gummi stone
Beast Juice

i hardly ever use the file or the 200 grit stones though (i think they might take off too much material). i pretty much just do the 400 --> 600 --> 1200 in that order to polish up my edges and remove any burs i might have gotten. so far i've been doing this every other day out. oh and, i only polish the side edge unless the burs are really bad, then i'll do the base. so far though, i've been avoiding the base as much as possible since i don't want to make the base of my board all convex.


i pretty much did what everyone else said and practiced on some beater boards. i have about 5 freeride boards sitting around -- 3 or 4 of which will never be ridden again for various reasons -- none having to do with my edge tuning...

[bobdea]

ohh, for polishing I have to reccomend arkansas stones, I think tognar has them they seem to out last fine diamond stones as well as polish better

[dshack]

How did y'all figure out what base and edge angles to use? The Almanac lists 2/1 as a good starting point; does this vary based on what sort of carving you want to do?

[kmagvette]

dshack - if your not racing don't drive yourself nuts over this stuff. A 2/1 is nice a nice compromise, you get an 89* edge out of the deal without taking too much meat off the board. If you follow my advice and let the local shop set the base angle and structure the base it will take the hardest task off your plate.

The vast majority of shops will give you a 1* base even if you don't ask for it. They do the edges first, then structure the bases. This is done to keep the edges off their structuring stone - you definately don't want you edges structured.

Polish with a blue diamond stone (medium grit) and be done with it. Hit the side edge with the stone (quickly) every other day (BEFORE you wax) or so to freshen up the egde - assuming you don't sustain damage requiring a file.

If you are laying trench you need to wax frequently to avoid frying your base near the edges.

It sounds like you have about the same level of carving experience as I do (intermediate on a good day), put a decent tune on the thing and go get stick time.

[dshack]

Far from intermediate, methinks. I've spent about two days on my alpine board and have just been wasting away snowless winter-vacation time on the forum. I can probably get a good deal more performance out of proper angulation and thinking about body position than the angle of my edges.