Carbon Fiber go BOOM!

[DiveBomber]

So there i am sliding down the hill with out my board! WTF just happened???
I was at breck today, and on the last run I was doing, before went to swap to my freeride set up, im going into one turn and feel a little sketchty so i decide to bail before i start to accelerate, im sliding on my butt for a few sec before i decide to slow/stop. and the all of a sudden i loose the board and im upside down on my back, wonder what just happened. I thought at first, my boots had popped out, or the latches failed, but wait, the bindings are still on my boots!!! :angryfire, did the threads come loose and strip??? hmmmm wait, where are the base plates???? THEY ARE STILL ON THE BOARD!!!! WTF???

THIS SUCKS!!!!!!! I wasnt going very fast at all, and i didnt get hurt, though the front of my ankle is a tiny bit sore, but im not sure if it was due to this or not.
I am very disapointed
The board is just fine, my boots are fine, I would think the bindings, at least in this manner would be the last thing that would fail, especially in such a catastrophic way!

I went over to bomber around 4pm, to get them to take a look at it, but despite the sign saying they were open there was no one to be found :(

[skategoat]

Glad you weren't hurt. That's crazy that both bindings would completely fail like that. You might want to check your brake lines before you jump in your car.

How old were the bindings? How much do you weigh? And what is that light brown stuff? Particle board?

[DiveBomber]

im 190, i was on a 162,
I dont know there seems to be a bit of mat fiberglass in there, which i think is a rip, since it means they just used carbon on the outer layers for looks, just so they can charge more money. dont have a clue as to what the brownstuff is, but it looks weak!!! :mad:

You know i thought at first, what ever just happened, if it did this to the bindings surely it must have thrashed the board.
I mean you figure one of 2 things: either the binding are weak, or i must have wiped out incredibly hard, but if the bindings were as strong as youd expect, then to have crashed hard enough to brake them, the board and probably some bones would be broken too!

walking all the way down the mtn wasnt fun either

[cfj04]

I had the same thing happen with a of pair of Carbon X-bones. Most probable cause is tightening down to much on the mounting ring - It compresses the carbon fiber plate. When it blows - it splits the base just like your photos. You may want to check the other carbon plate to be certain that it's still good (oops - you blew both of them - nevermind).

Fortunately, I was able to get in touch with Raichle through Blue Tomato (pre fin days) and they sent a new plate to me.

On another note, rode breck today and kept just missing single carvers the entire day. Had a great time but would have been fun to hook up with a few other riders. That was me in the purple fate vest - madd 170 board - hacking up the mountain

Sorry about you bindings and glad you're okay

[DiveBomber]

the BOTH broke, I hardly think i tightened them down to much, used a bike folding tool to tighten it can get much torque out of those, plus it doesnt seem like you can over tighten much, since it stops pretty firmly.

If you'll notice not only is the carbon broken, but the 2 big cracks, which are
almost mirror images of each other.

I was going up Beaver Run chair the whole time. If you were on that side. Onlye saw 2 other guys that were together waited for them at the top of the list but thery were just some shop guys trying out what they had in the shop, and didnt seem to care much, but i had already grabbed my FR set up

[cfj04]

I was on Mercury and Falcon - just missed each other by one lift - oh well - next time.

As for your bindings - see if Fin can send them back to Raichle for inspection. You'll be out a binding set for a while but with any luck, they'll send a new pair to replace. My suggestion if they do replace them - sell them and buy a pair of Bombers, Cateks or F2's

:)

[Rob-CanCarve]

Divebomber:

I think you just demonstrated the reason to have either Trench Diggers or Cateks under your feet.

In metal (alloy) - I trust

All the best,

Rob

[rphillips]

Was out at Breck yesterday too - missed a couple of carvers. Looking forward to catching up with some of you next week in Aspen.

BTW - planning on heading to Breck tomorrow and trying out the new Donek FC1 :biggthump

[Hugh]

Weight range is 90-180lbs. Maybe they should be rated for less weight, like 90-160lbs? I weigh 185-190lbs and ride X-Bones too.

One thing that looks wrong in your first photo is the centering on your large sized boots. It looks like the heel is set all the way back, while the toe is not all the way forward.

Is your boot centered or setback?

Also, did the broken plastic occur only on the rear part of the binding?

I've got a regular set of X-Bones and recently bought a carbon set. Let me know what the binding people say...

--Hugh

[durace]

Great timing on this post. I was just trying to decide if I should go with a set of X-bones or another set of Cateks for a new board. I'll spend the extra $150 for the real deal. Good to hear you came out without a reason for a law suit.

[DiveBomber]

Weight range is 90-180lbs. Maybe they should be rated for less weight, like 90-160lbs? I weigh 185-190lbs and ride X-Bones too.

One thing that looks wrong in your first photo is the centering on your large sized boots. It looks like the heel is set all the way back, while the toe is not all the way forward.

Is your boot centered or setback?

Also, did the broken plastic occur only on the rear part of the binding?

I've got a regular set of X-Bones and recently bought a carbon set. Let me know what the binding people say...

--Hugh

Boots are size 29.5, they are centered on the board, the rear isnt ALL the way back, i just centered the boot then moved the front bail back untileverything tightened up.

yes the cracked are only on the back side.

[alexeyga]

Divebomber:
I think you just demonstrated the reason to have either Trench Diggers or Cateks under your feet.
In metal (alloy) - I trust


That's a rather bold statement... I don't want to start any flame-wars, but composites can actually take much more abuse than metals esp. in sub-zero temperatures... I'm not saying Bombers or Cateks are weak, they seem to be bomb-proof, but their design is oustanding (not OS2s) in the contrary to these X-Bones...

Imho they deserve a public notice... And the way it failed... Doesn't look like carbon fiber.. at all..

Cheers,

[Steve Dold]

I have to agree with Rob about trusting metal. With aluminum, I know what I have if I know what the alloy is. With composites I have no idea what went into the construction unless I did it myself. Those pics of the XBones are a good example of that. What the hell is that stuff inside those things? That's why I don't trust composite airplanes, I just can't see what's inside as well as I can with aluminum riveted construction. Too many delaminations from clueless builders.

[Zone]

If it's the carbon that breaks, likely same kind of break pattern to carbon masts for windsurfing: no warning complete and sudden snap.

[zoltan]

That's a rather bold statement... I don't want to start any flame-wars, but composites can actually take much more abuse than metals esp. in sub-zero temperatures...

Yeah, carbon can be made stronger than metals, but the big difference is how they fail. With carbon you'll have a catastrophic failure where the piece will simply come apart like you saw with these bindings. On the other hand, unless it's super, super cold, metal will deform before failing completely. This is why when I raced downhill bikes we never used any carbon fiber on our setups; you can still ride with a bent bar but not a snapped one.

[skatha]

Yikes......
I have X-bones, too...not carbon, tho, and I weigh 130......

Good to see you're not hurt, at least, not physically..... :rolleyes:

[DiveBomber]

anyone have anybody in particular i should call? any #s?

[D-Sub]

looks like MDF in there! wth?

[RJ-PS]

MAN am I GLAD that you're OK! Obviously someone upstairs has some big plans for your life!

I'm sporting X-bone carbons too! 220lbs and never had problems with them, rode them on everything from Tankers, LSDs, Alpine, pow boards. Really like the flex of the bindings, but that break is totally unacceptable! You gotta get those back to the manufacturer!

If I recall correctly Fin is the Distributor for Deeluxe in the US, so just go through him. I believe that 2005 was the last time they made those bindings, so they might not replace them, but perhaps you can get a pair of boots out of it. :)

[NateW]

Yikes. Glad you are OK!

[philfell]

Yeah, carbon can be made stronger than metals, but the big difference is how they fail. With carbon you'll have a catastrophic failure where the piece will simply come apart like you saw with these bindings. On the other hand, unless it's super, super cold, metal will deform before failing completely. This is why when I raced downhill bikes we never used any carbon fiber on our setups; you can still ride with a bent bar but not a snapped one.


Ever hear of a broken bail? I've seen plenty of them, from all binding manufactuers.

[Steve Dold]

A broken bail in a binding is probably a fatigue failure, I think we're talking more about sudden failures from over-stressing the part, or from a weakened part (unseen cracks). Aluminum will usually deform quite a bit before breaking, from what I've seen, even the harder alloys.

[snowboardfast]

Had the same problems with snowpro bindings back in the early 90's. Bails would snap while riding. had a rear binding shatter while doing a toeside turn. Had to go to chiro for a year and a half to get my neck readjusted after pinballing down the hill. Those bindings are at the carving mueseum at Bomber where they belong. I will not ride any plate binding with any plastic in it. I ride bombers and catek exclusively. Have nt had a problem with breakage. I rode with a guy a number of years ago that said he broke 10 pairs of Burton plate bindings in 1 season. Go buy some Bombers and ride free from binding problems! Carbon fiber and plastic become brittle in cold temperatures. I am no engineer but I don't trust anything but metal bindings. If you need a new pair right away go to Boulder All Board Sports- Bola can set you up with Catek or bomber. Glad you didn't get hurt! Ride safe Ride Metal!

[DiveBomber]

funny thing is the temps werent that cold

[BDZal]

That looks like some kind of dampening element. I came out of a binding once and went into someone's legs. "You're out of control!" Actually I remember now that it was over the backs of his skis, I managed enough control to tighten the turn just enough...

[Speedzilla]

I have busted a few Burton plates, it's usually the plastic toe piece that breaks.

My "favorite" occured at Telluride, the first jump in a boardercross race. 4 feet in the air, bouncing off of 5 other guys, another board hit my front toe piece and it shattered. Nothing like having your front foot come out of the binding while you are in the air. Luckily, I escaped injury.

Although I'm still using bindings with plastic parts (F2), I think it might be time to get some new TD2s.

[DiveBomber]

Ok so what do i do now?? I called bomber with no answer and left a message.

[alexeyga]

It seems you won't get any answers until Feb. 20th...

[philfell]

Had the same problems with snowpro bindings back in the early 90's. Bails would snap while riding. had a rear binding shatter while doing a toeside turn. Had to go to chiro for a year and a half to get my neck readjusted after pinballing down the hill. Those bindings are at the carving mueseum at Bomber where they belong. I will not ride any plate binding with any plastic in it. I ride bombers and catek exclusively. Have nt had a problem with breakage. I rode with a guy a number of years ago that said he broke 10 pairs of Burton plate bindings in 1 season. Go buy some Bombers and ride free from binding problems! Carbon fiber and plastic become brittle in cold temperatures. I am no engineer but I don't trust anything but metal bindings. If you need a new pair right away go to Boulder All Board Sports- Bola can set you up with Catek or bomber. Glad you didn't get hurt! Ride safe Ride Metal!


You are complaining about plastic in your binding, but you horror story has to do with a broken bail, last I checked no bails were plastic.

[roman]

i'm glad you're not hurt! horror szene...plastic is fantastic, hmm? luckily there are any bindings out there without this problem!

ride on dude!

[NEfreerider]

Good thing I found this. I am looking into what I should get for bindings and was thinking the X-Bone. Seems the way to go is the metal bindings.
Please share any opinions.
Thanks
Kevin

[Joe D]

this is why when I see used bindings for sale cheep, it makes me wonder how they were used...
I recently followed a pair of Snowpro Race auctions, the used set went for $31, the new set went for $133. Kind of a public vote of confidence.

[NEfreerider]

I just got some new Cateks last week I was not going to play any games with saftey. I olny wish I knew what I was doing a little better in the set up on them but they seem rock solid. For only 3 days on an alpine board I had a few ski race coachs tell me I looked good when I ran there course.
Kevin

[Hugh]

Kevin,

Post a new thread question on Catek setup. Are yours the old style Catek or OS2?

There is a correct way to tighten them, so that they are rock solid. Also, with most brand new bindings, you need to retighten all screws after the first uses. Toe and heel pieces, mounting screws, etc.

--Hugh

[dr. sandman]

As others have said: Wow!! and I'm glad you weren't badly injured.
I have a pair of the regular X-Bones, used them for 1 season ('04-'05). Upon inspection at the end of that season, the plastic-webbed undercarriage of both have cracks much like those you have circled. I haven't ridden this year due to a injury NOT related to binding failure. So I have spent this winter looking for TD's to buy instead. Have one pair of TD1 si's and will be ordering a pair of TD2 si's this month. It just isn't worth the possible injury.
I remember seeing a recommended weight limit (as someone has mentioned) see this review for the non-carbons: http://www.bomberonline.com/reviews/Reviews.cfm?itemnumber=385
O.K., I'm over 180 by about 50 lbs., so I take my share of responsibility for the apparent pending failure of the X-Bones. But that aside, I find it of great interest that I'm not the only one seeing these cracks underneath.
And are these cracks a sign of impending doom??
Who else is seeing cracked X-Bone undercarriages??

[scotts.Scheinman]

Divebomber:

I think you just demonstrated the reason to have either Trench Diggers or Cateks under your feet.

In metal (alloy) - I trust

All the best,

Rob

thats why i opted cateks over the the X-bones