Black toe again!

[OCD]

I need a little advice. Each year I go riding my boots give me grief and I inevitably loose my left big toe nail. I’ve have my boots punched out at the toe, my liners re-baked and all sorts of other things done to resolve the issue. A carver and tech at a local shop suggested that it might not be the boots that are at issue but the way I have my binding set up. I’ve been riding consistently for six years with heal lifts on both my front and back bindings, no toe lift on the front. He is sure that this is putting too much forward pressure on the toe and hence the issue. Does anyone have any thoughts or past experience with this problem? I use F2 Proflex titanium step-ins.

[dano]

What, no pictures? C'mon now!

[ajcannon]

man...that is just nasty. I've got a relative who have toenail problems and she just had her big toenails removed. Weird looking, but let's face it..the darn things aren't good for much other than problems. I say take 'em off! Will insurance cover that?

[Tim Tuthill]

OCD: Your boots may be too wide? That was my problem. I changed from Raichle/Deelux, too wide, to Burton Fires. I had Burton Reactors when I started. The Fires are the same last. My toe moved all over in the Raichle boots. You may need to narrow your boot?? IMHO??

[bschurman]

Wait a sec. You ride with heel lift on both bindings? So you are riding in starters blocks? I would definitly say that this is your problem. I would start with putting toe lift in the front and heel lift in the rear.

[big mario]

Jeff,
I thought you were a little different, bein' a canadian and all, but jeez :confused:
mario
see you sat?

[tdinardo]

We need some pics! :eplus2:

I thought I was in bad shape because I used to have to wrap my big toes with sports tape to prevent skin and toenail damage (no longer a problem with my Stratos Pros), but toe nails falling out and surgical removal of parts of the toe? Wow!

[tdinardo]

Pictures are available but I need someone to host them. Any takers?

I can host. Email them to me at tdinardo at mythem dot com.

[carvedog]

I have many seasons of 100 plus days and found with custom footbeds and injected liners all of my foot problems went away. Even after a 6 or 7 hour day I am happy in my boots. It would seem to me that the only way you would have toenail problems is with movement and subsequent friction in the toe box area. With appropriate padding and tightness you should have no or very little movement in that area.

I tighten my boots down enough that I usually have to pop my buckles on the lift for the little extra circulation when I am carving hard. When teaching I loosen them one or two twists depending on temp and don't have problems or need to pop buckles then either.

My two cents - good luck

[Dave Pushee]

OCD,

What boots are you using, and how do you set them up when you ride?
When riding trees/bumps/crud, I used to use walk mode.
Now that I understand the powder setting, that's what I use.
I think the backward flex allowed by walk mode can allow your leg to leverage the foot forward and jam the toe.

No, I don't want to see pics :barf:

- Dave

[kjl]

If you aren't sliding around in your boots maybe you just need to mold extra space around your toes when heatmolding your liners. The toebox I think they call it. I cut off the toes of a super thick sock, use that as a cap, and put that around my toes (along with a bunch of tissue paper stuck between each of my toes) when I mold my boots.

Also, you can usually pull your toes away from the front of your boot, as well as prevent yourself from sliding forwards by tightening the cuff buckles a lot (pulls your shin backwards in the boot).

[OCD]

Thanks for the help. I have tried all of the above. I was hoping that the toe / heal lift situation was the key. It did get me thinking about my set up though. Do most riders only have a heal lift on the rear binding and the toe in the front and how does that change your riding?

[philistine]

My toenail wasn't black anymore, but it was on it's way out!

[tdinardo]

Pictures are available but I need someone to host them. Any takers?

Jeff's hardcore evil black-toe surgical solution. When in doubt cut it off! :eplus2:

http://mythem.sts.winisp.net/Snowboarding/Jeffs_evil_boot_toe.jpg

[Hans]

I need a little advice. Each year I go riding my boots give me grief and I inevitably loose my left big toe nail. I’ve have my boots punched out at the toe, my liners re-baked and all sorts of other things done to resolve the issue. A carver and tech at a local shop suggested that it might not be the boots that are at issue but the way I have my binding set up. I’ve been riding consistently for six years with heal lifts on both my front and back bindings, no toe lift on the front. He is sure that this is putting too much forward pressure on the toe and hence the issue. Does anyone have any thoughts or past experience with this problem? I use F2 Proflex titanium step-ins.
Hi, OCD

I don't know if you are using custom footbeds in your boots. I did have some serious problems with sore forefeet in the past till I let made some custom footbeds for my boots. Your feet will be raised a little in your shoes so that your forefeet will relax more. But I think you have let it all done. Just my experience. Hope you will solve the problem.

Greets, Hans.

[LeeW]

slightly off topics -- feet. i bought a new pair of boots (softies -- DC) slightly bigger than normal. oh my god. i cant tell you how great it feels. for years, ive been struggling with serious pains in my feet. now i realized it helps if you go a bit bigger than normal sizing.

[tdinardo]

slightly off topics -- feet. i bought a new pair of boots (softies -- DC) slightly bigger than normal. oh my god. i cant tell you how great it feels. for years, ive been struggling with serious pains in my feet. now i realized it helps if you go a bit bigger than normal sizing.

The crux of the issue is not "bigger" or "smaller" but "correct". E.g. all size 28's are not size 28's as each manufacturers shell shape can very dramatically. The only way you can assure proper boot fit is by shell sizing with an experienced boot fitter. A 28 may feel great for the first 3-5 days, but after the liner packs in, you may end up with something 1-3 sizes too big, and you can never make a big boot smaller. A good boot-fitter can make a small boot bigger though...

Good shell fit, custom footbeds, and a boot-fitting god=ahhhhh!...(or in Jeff's case, surgical removal of the offending body parts.) :biggthump

[OCD]

I tried the custom food beds and it didn’t help, if fact it compacted the toe are even more. Maybe my boots are just not right for my feet.

[tdinardo]

I tried the custom food beds and it didn’t help, if fact it compacted the toe are even more. Maybe my boots are just not right for my feet.

Take the liner out of your shell and put your foot in the shell with your big toe gently touching the front of the shell. You should have 1-1 1/2 fingers of space between your heel and the back of the shell. Are any parts of your foot touching the shell besides the tip of your big toe?

Are your toes actually curling up inside the liner?

[D-Sub]

Im goin with the "why do you have heel lift on your front foot" school first. seriously, kill that! a little toe lift on front, more heel lift on back if you want. rock that for a while.

[tdinardo]

Im goin with the "why do you have heel lift on your front foot" school first. seriously, kill that! a little toe lift on front, more heel lift on back if you want. rock that for a while.

I definitely agree with that.

[D-Sub]

if that fails, cut off the toe

[tdinardo]

if that fails, cut off the toe
Bolt cutters work well for that. Make sure you have your waxing iron handy to cauterize the raw area.

[Chris Houghton]

We use the side cutters for toes, but for the big toe it takes two or even sometimes three tries to sever it completely. Bolt cutters are only good if you catch it right at the joint.

[carvedog]

are sick. We are talking about someone with some serious issues here. :eplus2:

[OCD]

Thanks guys, I tried the foot in the shell test at home and at the shop and it looks like I do have the room. I am going to change up the toe lift / heel situation and in fact have already changed my set up. I’m using F2 bindings and they suck when it comes to adjusting heal / toe lift, not too many options. I have a block under my front toe and it feels weird. I know a carpet test is not an accurate one but it just feels like there is too much up front. I may be on my local hill tomorrow so I’ll see. I hate change my set up when it’s working for me, aside from the incredible pain and black toe that is.

[tdinardo]

Thanks guys, I tried the foot in the shell test at home and at the shop and it looks like I do have the room. I am going to change up the toe lift / heel situation and in fact have already changed my set up. I’m using F2 bindings and they suck when it comes to adjusting heal / toe lift, not too many options. I have a block under my front toe and it feels weird. I know a carpet test is not an accurate one but it just feels like there is too much up front. I may be on my local hill tomorrow so I’ll see. I hate change my set up when it’s working for me, aside from the incredible pain and black toe that is.

After you have ridden a few runs with the toe lift in, if you don't like it, you can also try it with no lift under the front at all as a test. What works for some may not work for all. The best thing is to try a number of different things, one change at a time, until you find what works well for you.

[D-Sub]

or you could fashion smaller lift shims. F2 you get what...its like a centimeter block, no? I remember those feeling odd.

yeah, try just heel lift in the back, too. see what happens?

[rikytheripster]

definately get back to us. I have lost my front left big toe nail twice and am looking for a solution.

i have remoulded my liners with a toe box, stood in the boots without liners, tried riding without socks but still no luck. it feel slike the pressure is cause more by my toe pushing upwards against the boot as opposed to into the end. this got me thinking i might need to adjust the fwd lean on my raichle sb 324's to get my weight more fwd and prevent that painful upward force that i beliebve is from leaning back too much. it could also be a technique issue, maybe when im tryig to squat lower i rock back slightly and push the toe up against the shell?

i ride with toe lift up front and heel lift in the rear also. i have narrow feet too.'

thoughts?

[tdinardo]

definately get back to us. I have lost my front left big toe nail twice and am looking for a solution.

i have remoulded my liners with a toe box, stood in the boots without liners, tried riding without socks but still no luck. it feel slike the pressure is cause more by my toe pushing upwards against the boot as opposed to into the end. this got me thinking i might need to adjust the fwd lean on my raichle sb 324's to get my weight more fwd and prevent that painful upward force that i beliebve is from leaning back too much. it could also be a technique issue, maybe when im tryig to squat lower i rock back slightly and push the toe up against the shell?

i ride with toe lift up front and heel lift in the rear also. i have narrow feet too.'

thoughts?

One thing you can try is heel lifts inside the boots. I have to use them because I am hyper-flexible which means I end up overflexing my boots. By raising the heel inside the boot it increases the starting angle and balences me over the board better.

Here's how this may apply to your situation. One of the side benefits I found was that it raised my foot up in such a way as to move the location I was putting pressure on the top of my boot from the toe box to the area above the instep. You might find that helpful. It's easy and inexpensive to test.

If you don't have a local boot fitter, you can pick them up here for $4.00: http://www.tognar.com/boot_heater_warmer_fitting_dryer_canting_dryers_sk i_snowboard.html

Might be worth a shot....

[Pat Donnelly]

I discovered my big toe on my front foot got black on heel turns when in walk mode. In walk mode, I had next to no leverage from behind the ankel and the toe was the last point of pressure. Have since locked in the front boot on #3 and no more jamming; rear boot is still in walk mode.

Pat

[adrian barr]

i know the feeling. Two seasons ago lost bot big toe nails :( . Last season only lost one :freak3: .
The solution from my bootfitter was to punch the toe box above the big toe are.
Currently all toes are healthy :1luvu:

[Tim W]

I have some of the worst feet in the world. They are flat and fit in a very small percentage of shoes, boots etc on the market. My toenails have a curve to them and cause massive ingrowns that get worse with snowboarding. I visited the podiatrist last week and we are going to remove them at the end of the season. He said it is a very simple procedure that may cause some discomfort for about 3 days. No more toenails= no more problems.

[adrian barr]

naked big toes :eek:

[tdinardo]

I have some of the worst feet in the world. They are flat and fit in a very small percentage of shoes, boots etc on the market. My toenails have a curve to them and cause massive ingrowns that get worse with snowboarding. I visited the podiatrist last week and we are going to remove them at the end of the season. He said it is a very simple procedure that may cause some discomfort for about 3 days. No more toenails= no more problems.

Hard Core! :eplus2:

You'll have to let us know after you get it done if the doc was lying about the recovery time.

[dantheman0177]

OK, not wanting to threadjack, but I strongly recommend completely drying feet out after riding and if you get any pain, have a specialist look at it before it's too late.

This is what happens when you don't follow your own advice....and invariably your overseas riding trip finishes with a hospital stay and an early flight home.

[tdinardo]

OK, not wanting to threadjack, but I strongly recommend completely drying feet out after riding and if you get any pain, have a specialist look at it before it's too late.

This is what happens when you don't follow your own advice....and invariably your overseas riding trip finishes with a hospital stay and an early flight home.

Dude! What the hell happened to your foot? :eek:

[dantheman0177]

I was staying in a hostel at Big White a couple of years ago and because you spend all day wearing shoes when you stay in a hostel, my feet never dried out properly and a little bit of tinea turned into a big bout of celulitis (think that is how it is spelled).

It got really painful and I thought I had maybe broken my ankle or something so I went to see a doctor before moving on to Whistler and she sent me straight to hospital for IV antibiotics. I was in Vancouver in hospital for 3 days, then got flown home and in hospital in Melbourne for 4 more days. Couldn't walk on it for that entire week and was still popping pills and on light duties two weeks later.

Not a pleasant experience.

[tdinardo]

I was staying in a hostel at Big White a couple of years ago and because you spend all day wearing shoes when you stay in a hostel, my feet never dried out properly and a little bit of tinea turned into a big bout of celulitis (think that is how it is spelled).

It got really painful and I thought I had maybe broken my ankle or something so I went to see a doctor before moving on to Whistler and she sent me straight to hospital for IV antibiotics. I was in Vancouver in hospital for 3 days, then got flown home and in hospital in Melbourne for 4 more days. Couldn't walk on it for that entire week and was still popping pills and on light duties two weeks later.

Not a pleasant experience.

OMG. That's awful.

[surfinsmiley]

Being new to hardboots all I can say is :eek::eek::eek:, Some of you guys are really More Core Division.

[OCD]

I just got back from a day on the mountain w/my new toe lift on the front binding and it was great. I still have a little discomfort but not to the degree previously discussed. I also found that my toe side has improved 100%. Initiation is better and edge hold is not an issue. It only took a few runs to get it dialed. Thanks for the advice. Conditions were icey but I don’t think I have ever had the control on my toe side, it looks like good things do come out of a bad situation after all.

[D-Sub]

I just got back from a day on the mountain w/my new toe lift on the front binding and it was great. I still have a little discomfort but not to the degree previously discussed. I also found that my toe side has improved 100%. Initiation is better and edge hold is not an issue. It only took a few runs to get it dialed. Thanks for the advice. Conditions were icey but I don’t think I have ever had the control on my toe side, it looks like good things do come out of a bad situation after all.

no more starting block stances!

ok...are we talkin toeNAIL removal or TOE removal here? Either trips me out but hell...if I never had to trim my toenails again Id be ok with it

[carvedog]

OK, not wanting to threadjack, but I strongly recommend completely drying feet out after riding and if you get any pain, have a specialist look at it before it's too late.

This is what happens when you don't follow your own advice....and invariably your overseas riding trip finishes with a hospital stay and an early flight home.

Dan - I know you are just trying to impress the ladies with the pictures of your swollen appendages, but after the toe removal bits came up there are no ladies here. So better luck next time.

[dantheman0177]

Dan - I know you are just trying to impress the ladies with the pictures of your swollen appendages, but after the toe removal bits came up there are no ladies here. So better luck next time.

Yes, and it was 10.5 inches long, thick, red, swollen and throbbing.... :eek: :eek: :eek:

And the ladies' response would be a simple :barf:

[jeffro]

I discovered my big toe on my front foot got black on heel turns when in walk mode. In walk mode, I had next to no leverage from behind the ankel and the toe was the last point of pressure. Have since locked in the front boot on #3 and no more jamming; rear boot is still in walk mode.

Pat

Pat speaks the truth! I'd lose my front big toe nail roughly 2-3 riding days into each season. It would really hurt for about a week, preventing me from riding, then turn black, and then eventually fall off near the end of the season. Long story short, it was because I have been carving in 'walk' mode, with my upper buckles not too tight, for like 6 seasons. I just got used to the loose feeling. I normally tie my casual / running shoes loose enough to slip on and off without retying, so I didn't think much of it.

Using forward lean has improved my heelside carve, and prevents me from lifting 'up' on the tip of my boots with my toe; instead, the force I apply for heelside turns is applied (due to tight buckles and no 'walk' mode) near the bottom of my leg and onto the cuff of the boot. I'm embarassed that I didn't notice this six seasons ago, I think my heelsides would be a lot better today. But you know, live and learn.

-Jeff

[Tim Tuthill]

Pat or anyone else: Why would you ride in walk in the first place? I know guys ride hard boots in the pow in walk. Seems to me that you would know you would slide back and forth, banging your toe and lifting your heel. I had a pair of wide boots that I banged my big toe in. As soon as I got new boots that are narrower, no problems at all. I guess I'm lucky, I learned with a crew that has been at it since the begining of carving in the US. They took the time to help me get get up right.

[Pat Donnelly]

Tim,

I ride front locked and rear in walk mode. I find this offers the flexibility needed to get low. Several riders that you know from Buttermilk ride in the same manner. I used to complain about rear heel lift but it's just how I ride. I have tried to stand flat footed and grab a rail and I just can't do this with out raising my rear heel. Part of the "comfort" zone feel may have come from starting our with the super soft and comfortable Nordica SBH boots?

[jeffro]

Pat or anyone else: Why would you ride in walk in the first place?

I'm very tall, and my hamstrings are very inflexible, so I suspect my body geometry is a lot different than yours, Tim. I found 'walk' mode made it easier to move from riding very low to the ground (to regulate my center of mass on the edge), to standing almost straight, depending on the conditions and type of carve I was going for.

Locked into forward lean, all I can do is carve like mad. I can link turns on the steeps much more gracefully than I could in 'walk', but bumps and powder are a little sketchy, so it's a compromise.

-Jeff

[Blackbird]

We use the side cutters for toes, but for the big toe it takes two or even sometimes three tries to sever it completely. Bolt cutters are only good if you catch it right at the joint.

Don't forget to post pictures... Blood and Gore is gooooood!!!:eplus2:

[Blackbird]

Yes, and it was 10.5 inches long, thick, red, swollen and throbbing.... :eek: :eek: :eek:

And the ladies' response would be a simple :barf:

At least they would respond!!!:freak3:

[carvedog]

Now that all my boots are broken, broken in or broken down I don't ride in walk anymore and I didn't much to begin with. Butttttt..... how could having more ankle flexion be a bad thing?

Seems like to allow your body to start travelling to the heel turn position off of a toe turn is a good thing - getting to the turn earlier you know that kind of thing. Certain types of cross under turns and just in general. Lateral stiffness with forward flex. I like it. Maybe I will start riding in walk mode again. :) :eplus2:

Also just because someone rides a softer or more flexible setup doesn't mean they need to go soft. As in soft boots. I hate softies and won't go back. In pow I can also go about twice as fast as the "softies" out there with more control. Not taunting or flaming here just my own very narrow viewpoint on the world.

Also Tim T - when I get my new liners the 28.5s out of the new fires are yours.

[tex1230]

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=6683&stc=1

speaking of black toe...
lower left (ick)

[redriver]

I had the same trouble with some new soft boots I bought about 5 years ago with heat-moldable liners. Tried to re-mold them 3 times over 2 seasons- using extra toe caps and got no relief, but lost the toenail and rode in pain every day. Then I got rid of the boots and picked up some non-molded ones, and the trouble hasn't returned. I wondered if the heat mold was just too hard in the first pair-- the slight room I had to slide forward seemed to press my toe mercilessly into a hard liner, particularly on landing jumps. May not be as warm, but now there's cushion in the toe. I'll never have another pair of moldables.