Where to Live?

[Ginsu]

I'm not sure if there's already a string on this topic but I figured it won't hurt to ask again.

I'm doing personal research to try and find the best place to live. I'm looking for a place that's within 30mins to a good ski area, under $300k for a nice 3bd/2bth house, has a good infrastructure for goods and materials, and most importantly has good paying jobs, which for me would be in high tech and for my wife the mortgage industry.

So far I've been focusing on these major city areas, Burlington VT, SLC UT, maybe Montana areas, and possibly Bend OR. Any others or comments or links to research already done?

I think this could be a good place to see what people think of where they live now also. Which for me is the West side of Portland, and at least 1hr plus for the nearest Resort. Not to mention the great Portland traffic and Ice incrusted 26 in the Sandy/Zigzag area.

[Mike T]

I'm doing personal research to try and find the best place to live. I'm looking for a place that's within 30mins to a good ski area, under $300k for a nice 3bd/2bth house, has a good infrastructure for goods and materials, and most importantly has good paying jobs, which for me would be in high tech and for my wife the mortgage industry.

Regarding Bend:

-30 minutes: check.
-under 300K: missed it by about a year. My new place was literally pennies under 300K, but the offer was made at late 2004 prices and I hear it's worth quite a bit more now.
-infrastructure: getting there.
-mortgage industry: booming
-hi-tech: limited options. email me offline and let me know what specifically you're looking for...

[ak_rider]

ever consider anchorage, ak? great infrastructure. loads of job opps, unless you're a snowboard instructor :( and about 30 min from alyeska once youget used to the highway, although if you don't like ice encrusted roads it might not be a good option.

[ARCrider]

sorry can't help

I can tell you not to come to Toronto.
I've been wondering about my own relocation at retirement. Don't really know where yet but Ontario will be left behind at least for the winters. We've finally got some of our hills open. short season with limited vert

[skategoat]

Kelowna baby. But don't wait too long or the prices will be out of reach. Kelowna has the most sunshine days in Canada. It's wine country and three good ski mountains are within 1 hour drive. Plus, there are direct flights from Toronto.

This info is mostly for Rob (arcrider) but Ginsu, if you have a university degree and high tech skills, we'll let you in the country. Hell, we let 50cent and Martha Stewart in recently.

[Neil Gendzwill]

There's very little for tech stuff going on in Kelowna AFAIK. Most of the money there is retired people from Vancouver. The housing market is nuts.

[Randy S.]

Reno, NV? Awesome skiing close by. Some tech (not as much as down here in Silicon Valley). Or maybe Boulder or Colorado Springs? Those both have tech stuff.

[Jutta]

but it takes 1 hour and 45 min to get to Summit County (via Hwy 24 to Breck) on a good day. I've spent almost 3 hrs one way to Breck and so far my personal best for A-Basin (via I-25/I-70) was just over 4 hrs. It's doable for a day trip, but not a whole lot of fun...

I second the SLC thought, though. Where else do you have the chance to have the best of both city and mountain living?

[skategoat]

There's very little for tech stuff going on in Kelowna AFAIK. Most of the money there is retired people from Vancouver. The housing market is nuts.

You could teach the old folks on how to find dates on the Internet.

[D-Sub]

sad about bend, really. just more rich people f-in it up for others. even the folks that have lived there all their lives are being phased out

[Jared Q]

Wasatch Front/SLC area is where it is at. Although we do have two resorts that frown on snowboarding (Alta and Deer Valley). You still have Park City, Brighton, Solitude, Snowbird, Canyons, and Sundance all within about an hour or less from SLC.

[Jutta]

which means that while they can ban you from using their lifts, there isn't much they can do if you hike over from Brighton and use their runs... :ices_ange

[snow|3oarder]

Wasatch Front/SLC area is where it is at. Although we do have two resorts that frown on snowboarding (Alta and Deer Valley). You still have Park City, Brighton, Solitude, Snowbird, Canyons, and Sundance all within about an hour or less from SLC.

mmmmmmmmm....SLC

[bdurgin]

SLC, can't beat it

[Randy S.]

There's tech in SLC, but keep in mind that tech there, like most businesses there, is run/dominated by Mormons. I don't have anything against people choosing whatever faith they want. Heck, I'm Jewish and we've been persecuted for generations. That said, I've worked for tech companies run by mormons and worked with those companies a lot over the years. If you aren't Mormon, and don't attend church with them, it makes it very difficult to break in/move up. They'll tell you this isn't true and wave all sorts of rainbow inclusiveness/diversity flags (not as big as the rainbow flags we wave here in SF), but its just not f'ng true. There's more crony-ism and exclusion in Mormon run companies than any other I've seen (and I've lived in CT and NY where we Jews, plus the old-line protestants take old-boy to legendary heights). I suppose if you know this going in, and are accepting of it, you'll deal with it. If you want to be a cog at a company, it probably won't matter. If you want to move up, it might be hard.

Sorry for not being PC about this, and for essentially bringing politics/bias into the discussion, but I've spent a bunch of time there, had family live there, and know lots of folks there. Just trying to call it as I see it.

The riding is awesome in Utah. I even break out the skis so I can ride at Alta(great steeps) and Deer Valley(great slope-side food and service).

[Jared Q]

As an engineer working in SLC for the last 10 years, I have to agree with Randy. However, there are a handful of tech companies with corporate ties outside the state that are not all that bad. The trick is finding the right place to work.

[Stainless]

I chose Reno. My job allows me to live anywhere in the US (on a modest professional salary), so I figure my opinion is qualified. Housing market is hot - but everything was undervalued 4 years ago, so it was an adjustment. Levelling off now. Developers are still building houses like there's no tomorrow. Nordstrom is moving in, new shopping malls, downtown is on a big 'revitalization'. ($millions spent moving the train tracks underground in the downtown area, whitewater kayak park, Tour de Nez if you're into roadbikes, Lemond and Hincapie are locals, so that's worth noting. Annual 'Arttown' Festival, newish art gallery etc). Reno is slowly gentrifying as the Californians are moving in and demanding their fancy-pants wines and coffee.

My wife and I wish they would pay as much attention to building schools - the public system is overcrowded - my daughters are in private schools.

I can be in my boots riding Mt Rose 45 minutes from my front door, mountain biking in 5, flyfishing the Truckee in 15, flyfishing Pyramid Lake in 45. And of course, Lake Tahoe is over the hill. Two decent craft breweries, lots of glitzy casinos, and you are never more than 30 minutes from a lap-dance if that's your thing.

San Francisco is 3.5 hours drive away. I take my toddler daughters down there for some culture and so they will hopefully learn not to stare at black people (honest - my 2 year old had never seen any other skin colour but white).

Good airport. NO STATE TAX!. 300 days of sunshine per year, bugger-all humidity.

I grew up in New Zealand - I know a good thing when I find it, and Reno is pretty damn close.

[Fleaman]

Kelowna is slowly moving into the tech industry. I wish I could say the same for Penticton. I find it funny that the average wage here is something like 9 bucks an hour and the average house goes for $250 000.

I lucked in and bought mine for $20 000 below market value :biggthump
Most people like carpets in the house but I have textured concrete floor which is great for dogs.

Ginsu, You might want to try Kelowna. Lots of riding oportunities and a city of 100 000 with plenty of good weather in the summer at leastand a mild winter It is also the city with the most homes for sale over 1 000 000 dollars wich would be a boon for the mortgage industry.

Did I mention that the beaches are full of nubile hot women in the summer? :ices_ange

[LeeW]

Why not sticking to portland, oregon? Funny, during the reading of your post, i said to myself -- portland. Then I went "oh." when I saw where youre posting from. So, why the consideration to move out of PDX? Its pretty much the city I can think of with those criteria (as for 300K, Im not sure if Sandy, OR housing market is good or not as well as the prices -- cheap last time i saw it, 1998-2000). Its perfectly halfway between portland and mt hood.

even better, why not "telecommute" instead if youre into high tech job market ?

Edit: FINALLY, I get to reach 500 posts. Not bad. Wish it'd included my old posts from the old forums.

[bartron]

Check out findyourspot.com (http://www.findyourspot.com) It's a great site that asks you a bunch of questions and then gives you a list of 25 towns in the U.S. that best suit your needs.

[kipstar]

Second dat...reno is great; really nice people there, easy goin lifestyle; Alpine an hour away, Mt Rose about 30 min or less on that side of town.

Casino food rocks.

Cheap places for friends to stay.

Cheap flights to the Bay Area and the LA.

Not bad at all, if I were living anywhere in USA, it would be probably there....

Property prices have shot up quite a bit; but my friends' places all seem well nice and new, but probably not too far off your price range... cannot comment on the IT market, but there are a few corporate offices there.... would guess any growing city has need for mortgages...

[bartron]

I tried googling "best ski towns" and got this:

http://www.skimag.com/skimag/feature/article/0,12795,410175,00.html
http://www.americasbestonline.net/skitowns.html

[patmoore]

About two years ago I stumbled on an amazing site:


www.findyourspot.com (http://findyourspot.com)
You need to spend a fair amount of time inputting preferences in a wide assortment of topics - recreation, climate, health care, cost of living, etc but it's worth the effort. It will return about 20 locations with detailed info on all of them.

For me the number one choice was Durango. We decided it was a bit too pricey for us (we're retiring in six years) so we did a findyourspot.com exploratory trip two months ago visiting:

Bozeman, MT
Missoula, MT
Kalispell/Whitefish, MT
Sandpoint, ID (my favorite)

Two others that popped up on my list but we didn't visit were:
Bend, OR
Wenatchee, WA

When you get a chance, try the survey yourself and share your results.

Pat
(BTW, my wife's top pick was Boston......Oh well)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Kelowna is slowly moving into the tech industry. I wish I could say the same for Penticton. I find it funny that the average wage here is something like 9 bucks an hour and the average house goes for $250 000.
That whole Okanagan valley is a bizarre economy. On the one hand, you've got these fabulous retirement homes, big boats on the lake, all that jazz. On the other, you've got people living in shacks and ****hole trailers working as fruitpickers or whatever. It's kind of depressing.

[Mike T]

Why not sticking to portland, oregon? Funny, during the reading of your post, i said to myself -- portland. Then I went "oh." when I saw where youre posting from. So, why the consideration to move out of PDX? Its pretty much the city I can think of with those criteria

(as for 300K, Im not sure if Sandy, OR housing market is good or not as well as the prices -- cheap last time i saw it, 1998-2000). Its perfectly halfway between portland and mt hood.

even better, why not "telecommute" instead if youre into high tech job market ?


I lived in Sandy for 4 years and moved to Bend.

Sandy is a cow-town. You need to drive to Portland or at least Gresham for lots o' things - competent medical care, anything you can't buy at Fred Meyer, restaurants that don't smell like an ashtray. (For the latter you can also go to Welches, 16 miles toward the mountain).

On the other hand, we sold our 3Bed/2Bath 1500sf house in a nice neighborhood for just over 200K in April '05 (and were suprised to get that *much*). If you're going to buy in Sandy, do it in the middle of winter while it's wet and muddy, the market seems to really bounce once it gets sunny and dry.

[astrokel]

Why not sticking to portland, oregon? Funny, during the reading of your post, i said to myself -- portland.

I'd also be really curious why not Portland. Has it gotten too crowded? or is it that the ride to the mountain has just gotten too hairy? I've been considering moving there sometime soon. Am I part of the problem (New Yorkers, LA'ers, SF'ers et.al. escaping) :o ?

[Mike T]

I'd also be really curious why not Portland. Has it gotten too crowded? or is it that the ride to the mountain has just gotten too hairy? I've been considering moving there sometime soon. Am I part of the problem (New Yorkers, LA'ers, SF'ers et.al. escaping) :o ?


IMHO Portland's a fantatisc place to live. The only drawback for the purposes of this discussion is the fact that it's over an hour to the mountain each way. Living 20 minutes from the mountain door to door here in Bend lets me get a lot more riding in, considering I have a "day job" - but at least I can show up at noon and work late, and still get 2 hours of riding in.

[astrokel]

I did that "find your spot" thing and Portland came up #1! An hour to the mountain seems close to me! Hunter is 2 1/2 hours and Stratton is 4 1/2 hours away... Is that 1 hour away with traffic or is it really that bad (i.e., is it anything like I-70 going to Summit from Denver)?

Uhm... What's Bend like?

[RDY_2_Carve]

About two years ago I stumbled on an amazing site:


www.findyourspot.com (http://findyourspot.com)

I just took this quiz (answered all questions honestly) and guess what my #1 place was?

Albuquerque, NM

2-10 were:

Medford, Oregon
Bend, Oregon
Carson City, Nevada
Fayettville, Arkansas
Reno, Nevada
Eugene, Oregon
Corvallis, Oregon
Alexandria, Louisiana
Santa Fe, NM

Guess I'm where I'm suppost to be!

[patmoore]

I just took this quiz (answered all questions honestly) and guess what my #1 place was?

Albuquerque, NM

Guess I'm where I'm suppost to be!

You already live there. Funny! I was there last February (did a week in Taos Ski Valley - notice they don't call it Taos SNOWBOARD Valley) with my ski club. The altitude really got to me. I could get used to that but not the anti-boarding environment.

My wife's #5 choice was Hartford, CT - ten minutes from where we live now. She agreed that Montana and northern Idaho were beautiful although she would like something larger like Coeur D'Alene.

In Sandpoint, ID I was blown away by Schweitzer Mountain's base area. The shops, restaurants, hotels, etc were far more developed than I expected. And the team from Schweitzer won the resort competition at last year's NASTAR Nationals beating out host Park City Mountain Resort. We were there before the season opened but the mountain looked great.

[RDY_2_Carve]

You already live there. Funny! I was there last February (did a week in Taos Ski Valley - notice they don't call it Taos SNOWBOARD Valley) with my ski club. The altitude really got to me. I could get used to that but not the anti-boarding environment.


Yep that's what Angel Fire (http://www.angelfireresort.com) is for!

It's about the same distance as Taos anyways...

Plus from Albuquerque it's 6 hours to Summit County, Colorado. Not bad at all!

[patmoore]

Yep that's what Angel Fire (http://www.angelfireresort.com) is for!

It's about the same distance as Taos anyways...

Plus from Albuquerque it's 6 hours to Summit County, Colorado. Not bad at all!

Angel Fire looked great but the club was staying at the Inn at Snakedance at TSV. I got some pretty good instruction into glade skiiing. I'm glad I went but future trips will be to mountains that let me drag my knuckles.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Took the quiz and the top choices were
1. Fort Collins, CO
2. Provo, UT
3. Ogden, UT
4. Colorado Springs, CO
5. Boise, ID

[LeeW]

I lived in Sandy for 4 years and moved to Bend.

Sandy is a cow-town. You need to drive to Portland or at least Gresham for lots o' things - competent medical care, anything you can't buy at Fred Meyer, restaurants that don't smell like an ashtray. (For the latter you can also go to Welches, 16 miles toward the mountain).

On the other hand, we sold our 3Bed/2Bath 1500sf house in a nice neighborhood for just over 200K in April '05 (and were suprised to get that *much*). If you're going to buy in Sandy, do it in the middle of winter while it's wet and muddy, the market seems to really bounce once it gets sunny and dry.

You can say that again. Yea, I lived in Government Camp for two years. Passed Sandy on frequent basis, and thoguht it'd be nice compromise for those whose job market is in portland and wants to ski/snowboard often. 'sides, I would stay away from Gresham. Too ghetto. Only place I would go there would be Food 4 Less. Not bad prices for those houses.

[Mike T]

You can say that again. Yea, I lived in Government Camp for two years. Passed Sandy on frequent basis, and thoguht it'd be nice compromise for those whose job market is in portland and wants to ski/snowboard often. 'sides, I would stay away from Gresham. Too ghetto. Only place I would go there would be Food 4 Less. Not bad prices for those houses.

Yep, Gresham is rather ghetto, unless you live outside the growth boundary, off Orient Road on some acreage. There are a few good places to shop and eat though. Sandy is more liveable, but when it came down to it I really didn;'t want my daughter growing up there.

[LeeW]

Sandy is more liveable, but when it came down to it I really didn;'t want my daughter growing up there.

How true. I would want my "imaginary" kids to grow up in Welches. I dont know if its still ranking the top but the last time I checked, Welches Elementary school was the best in the entire state of Oregon. But I dont have that kind of money for golf-catering houses.

[mark pinch]

Portland???

You guys need to check out Spokane.

Near Nature. Near Perfect.

[Ginsu]

I did the survey and came out with some surprising results!:confused:

Top 10
Leadville, CO
Divide, CO
Heber, UT
Leavenworth, WA
Driggs, ID
Helena, MT
Durango, CO
Salida, CO
Dillon, MT
Big Fork, MT

So I guess I have some more research as only 1 yes 1 of those 10 were even a glimmer on my radar and that's Helena. Maybe I don't know myself as well as I should? I'll have to have the wifey do it also and see what she gets!

[ArmanTanzarian]

There's tech in SLC, but keep in mind that tech there, like most businesses there, is run/dominated by Mormons. I don't have anything against people choosing whatever faith they want. Heck, I'm Jewish and we've been persecuted for generations. That said, I've worked for tech companies run by mormons and worked with those companies a lot over the years. If you aren't Mormon, and don't attend church with them, it makes it very difficult to break in/move up. They'll tell you this isn't true and wave all sorts of rainbow inclusiveness/diversity flags (not as big as the rainbow flags we wave here in SF), but its just not f'ng true. There's more crony-ism and exclusion in Mormon run companies than any other I've seen (and I've lived in CT and NY where we Jews, plus the old-line protestants take old-boy to legendary heights). I suppose if you know this going in, and are accepting of it, you'll deal with it. If you want to be a cog at a company, it probably won't matter. If you want to move up, it might be hard.

Sorry for not being PC about this, and for essentially bringing politics/bias into the discussion, but I've spent a bunch of time there, had family live there, and know lots of folks there. Just trying to call it as I see it.

The riding is awesome in Utah. I even break out the skis so I can ride at Alta(great steeps) and Deer Valley(great slope-side food and service).

This is a burst of the bubble. I too was thinking of moving to SLC and am in the tech sector myself. I lived there a short time between semesters and liked it a lot. Then my brother was livin there and said some of these same things. But he and I are like the polar opposites so I figured he was just cryin. Huh?

Is Reno cool? What parts [neighborhoods] cause I drove through it to get to the airport and such and found Reno 911 [tv show] to be pretty accurate from what I saw. Looked a bit rough. But I guess the drive to O'Hare in Chicago doesn't exactly tour the better parts of this city.

Cheers
-b-

[D-Sub]

I did the survey and came out with some surprising results!:confused:

Top 10
Leadville, CO
Divide, CO
Heber, UT
Leavenworth, WA
Driggs, ID
Helena, MT
Durango, CO
Salida, CO
Dillon, MT
Big Fork, MT

So I guess I have some more research as only 1 yes 1 of those 10 were even a glimmer on my radar and that's Helena. Maybe I don't know myself as well as I should? I'll haev to have the wifey do it also and see what she gets!

you must have picked SMALL towns, cuz leadville is tiny, and so is Big Fork, but BF is a beautiful place, right on flathead lake. AWESOME golf course at Eagle Bend, and not super far from Big Mountain (Whitefish)

[Jeffrey Day]

I too took the quiz and came up with interesting results!
1)Ogden, UT
2)Provo-Orem, UT
3)Fort Collins, CO
4)Great Falls, MT
5)Boise, ID
6)Idaho Falls, ID
7)Salt Lake City, UT
8)Colorado Springs, CO
9) Loveland, CO
10)Cheyenne, WY

I thought New England was a pretty good place to be but I guess I'm movin' to the Rocky Mountains!

[Ginsu]

I think most of us would end up someplace else then we thought using this method? There are so many choices it's not possible to come up with all the possibilites easily without help like this. Guess I've got some research and travelling to do.

[Randy T.]

Is Reno cool? What parts [neighborhoods] cause I drove through it to get to the airport and such and found Reno 911 [tv show] to be pretty accurate from what I saw. Looked a bit rough. But I guess the drive to O'Hare in Chicago doesn't exactly tour the better parts of this city.

Cheers
-b-

Reno is very cool. I was born and raised here and I love it. I have only watched that show a couple times but don't think it represents Reno at all. Every town is going to have rough areas but that doesn't even describe Reno as a whole. The downtown area gets it's share of criticism because of homeless people and such, but that area is rapidly changing for the better. It used to be the locals didn't want to go down town but now there are attractions there to bring us down. Read what stainless said that is all very true.

I took the quiz and cam eup with:
1. Anchorage, AK
Maybe there is some big mountain riding in my future...but I doubt it, don't think I will ever leave Reno.

[Randy S.]

Is Reno cool? What parts [neighborhoods] cause I drove through it to get to the airport and such and found Reno 911 [tv show] to be pretty accurate from what I saw. Looked a bit rough. But I guess the drive to O'Hare in Chicago doesn't exactly tour the better parts of this city.

Cheers
-b-

I don't live there so I can't really comment. I've certainly seen some nice neighborhoods popping up. I was there last weekend to pick up a pool table/ping pong table for the ski cabin and I go to the airport on occassion. Randy T lives there and he commented already. Find Daneille on the TahoeCarvers site. In fact, TC would be a good place to pose questions about Reno, there are a handful of folks who live there that post.

I have to say that I've considered moving there, but I'm sort of stuck where I am until my kids go to college. Unless I wanted to drive down here to see them each weekend.

[D-Sub]

ski condo? pool table?! its on!

[CarvCanada]

anchorage, ak
and i'll be there next year :)

if this list included canada i'd bet Vernon , Golden and some of the smaller places in the Monashees would be up there

[Randy S.]

For me it came out:

Bend, OR
Portland
Seattle
Provo-Orem (WTF? How many Jews in Provo and Orem - like maybe 3 - heck, there's only one synagogue in the whole state)
Loveland, CO
Missoula, MT
Medford, OR
Corvallis, OR
Kent, Wa
Ft. Collins, CO
Tacoma
Idaho Falls

[Eric]

Mine came up Seattle. This contest must be rigged!
I think the lack of an NFL team was the nail in the coffin
for Portland.

[P06781]

I am surprised that that no mentioned Hood River Oregon. Its 35min to Mt Hood and has great summer sports also. It is a fun town year round and was in the top 10 ski town list last year. It has world class windsurfing-kiting and tons of mountain biking hiking fishing.It close to pdx for shopping or the airport (60miles) It is the tech center for the columbia gorge, and is HQ for a number water sport manufacturers. I would seriously consider moving from PDX to HR or Bend if a job was open for me.

Jim

[ArmanTanzarian]

Sweet Quiz!

Portland, Oregon
Ventura, California
Santa Barbara, California
Honolulu, Hawaii
Little Rock, Arkansas
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Palo Alto, California
Santa Cruz, California
Frederick, Maryland
Fayetteville, Arkansas
Charleston, West Virginia
Medford, Oregon

Thanks for the insight Randy T/Randy S!!!!!
While my wife and I would love to move to Tahoe I just don't see much in the way of work there. So the insight on Reno is much appreciated;)

I never considered Portland either but it does seem to have tech jobs so it certainly is an option. I favored the Sun heavily on the quiz and I wouldn't have thought Portland offered it. I always pictured it grey and smelling of paper plants;) Is hood really that close?

We always felt Utah was the only true city IN the mountains.

If anyone ever hears of flash/web design positions in or around Tahoe lemme know! Shameless plug comin.......

http://www.codesixty2.com

Cheers
-b-

[P06781]

I always pictured it grey and smelling of paper plants;) Is hood really that close?

The paper plants are accross the river at Camas Washington so no smell in Pdx. We usaully get 60-70 days straight in the summer with no rain and warm low humiditiy days .

Mt Hood Meadows is a 1hr 15min drive from downtown on a midweek day.

Timberline and Ski Bowl are only 1 hour .

Cyrstal Mountain and Mt Bachelor are both about 4 hrs away .

Jim

[ArmanTanzarian]

I always pictured it grey and smelling of paper plants;) Is hood really that close?

The paper plants are accross the river at Camas Washington so no smell in Pdx. We usaully get 60-70 days straight in the summer with no rain and warm low humiditiy days .

Mt Hood Meadows is a 1hr 15min drive from downtown on a midweek day.

Timberline and Ski Bowl are only 1 hour .

Cyrstal Mountain and Mt Bachelor are both about 4 hrs away .

Jim

WOW!!! 60-70 Days of Sun!! That would be sweet. I was looking at Realtor.com and there seem to be some pretty nice older homes there as well. My parents have friends from high school there, might have to make a trip.

Thanks Jim
-b-

[RDY_2_Carve]

60-70 days of sun? Ha! I bet it rained once all summer here! Moderate temps with 0 humidity. You truely get four full seasons here.

I can only assume most of you are not clicking the "southwest region" on the website (only included AZ and NM) because I'd figure more people would get Albuquerque listed in their top 10. Granted our ski season is nowhere near as long as Colorado...

If you are into anything outdoors you might consider New Mexico. Specifically in Albuquerque you can get a year long tram pass for $200 that takes you to the top of Sandia Peak. Amazing mountain bike trails and such. Hang-gliding, rock climbing, you name it. The view are incredible too...

Check it out here (http://www.sandiapeak.com/)

[Ginsu]

I agree for the most part that New Mexico is an awsome place. I lived there for half a year in the winter and loved being able to go to Santa Fe an hour away and then up to a place called Ski Rio which had 5000 acres of amazing mountain to crash around on. I think ABQ has gotten ten times busier now and much more expensive too.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you are into anything outdoors you might consider New Mexico. Specifically in Albuquerque
Yeah but then I'd have to learn to spell Albuquerque, and that's almost as bad as where I am now!

Seriously if I moved anywhere it would be Kelowna, Penticton or Vernon but family, friends and job are all here so it's the flatlands for me.

[D-Sub]

I think Ive been to Kelowna. that whole area on the TCH is awesome. I liked Revelstoke, too...but Im sure its too small to support most "greedy americans"

:)

[patmoore]

Wow! CNN just published a list of cities with the most overpriced homes (http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/29/real_estate/buying_selling/handicapping_housing_markets/index.htm) and Bend, OR came in at 56% overvalued. It's nowhere close to Naples, FL which is 84% overpriced!!!. Portland, OR is 35% while Portland, ME is 29% and Spokane, WA was listed as 15% too pricey. Denver comes in at 10%, while Billings (the only listing in MT) is at 5%. Provo, UT is only 2% overvalued and Albuquerque is right on the mark. That hot bed of alpine activity, College Station, TX, is at the extreme undervalued mark with a -23% mark.

On the other hand, they ranked New Orleans as 12% overvalued. Go figure....

[Raisputin]

#1 Fort Collins, CO

Provo-Orem, UT
Denver, CO
Minneapolis-St. Paul
Salt Lake City, UT
Anchorage, AK
Loveland, CO
Philidelphia, PA
Kent, WA
Tacoma, WA (LOL, not likely)
Divide, CO
Wilmington, DE
Colorado Springs, CO
Seattle, WA (Seachickens having a tremendous year...worthy of being called Seahawks this year :) )
Grand Junction, CO
St. Louis, MO
Ogden, UT
El Paso, TX (What ski areas are near there eh?)
Heber, UT
Whidbey Island/Oak Harbor/Coupeville, WA
Pittsburgh, PA (Go Steelers!!)
Kansas City, MO
Cleveland, OH (...Cleveland wins the penant...)
Cincinnati, OH (WKRP In Cincinnati)

[D-Sub]

Wow! CNN just published a list of cities with the most overpriced homes (http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/29/real_estate/buying_selling/handicapping_housing_markets/index.htm) and Bend, OR came in at 56% overvalued. It's nowhere close to Naples, FL which is 84% overpriced!!!. Portland, OR is 35% while Portland, ME is 29% and Spokane, WA was listed as 15% too pricey. Denver comes in at 10%, while Billings (the only listing in MT) is at 5%. Provo, UT is only 2% overvalued and Albuquerque is right on the mark. That hot bed of alpine activity, College Station, TX, is at the extreme undervalued mark with a -23% mark.

On the other hand, they ranked New Orleans as 12% overvalued. Go figure....

yup, Bend is a JOKE. Disgusting, gluttonous feeding frenzy.

when things crash, which they likely will (sorry mike but you know its true...glad you got in at a reasonable price!) I might consider buying there, except for the fact that the people in power will likely have destroyed the beauty, the roads will suck, and the schools will be so horribly crowded that home schooling will be the only viable choice. oh..wait...it already is :)

Bend is a neat place, being ruined

Im VERY suprised that nowhere in CA is on that list though, Pat! $600k for a modest 3br? crikey!

[Mike T]

yup, Bend is a JOKE. Disgusting, gluttonous feeding frenzy.

when things crash, which they likely will (sorry mike but you know its true...glad you got in at a reasonable price!) I might consider buying there, except for the fact that the people in power will likely have destroyed the beauty, the roads will suck, and the schools will be so horribly crowded that home schooling will be the only viable choice. oh..wait...it already is :)

Bend is a neat place, being ruined

Im VERY suprised that nowhere in CA is on that list though, Pat! $600k for a modest 3br? crikey!

I am definitely expecting a correction. As I've said many times I wouldn't/couldn't touch this place at current prices. I'm not expecting a crash so much as a smaller correction followed by leveling off for years to come.

But I strongly disagree with the rest of your appraisal of Bend. I think it's a great place to live. Live in the city, play in the mountains. What more can one ask? Sure, the city itself is getting built up faster than should be allowed, but it's not like the National Forests are being taken down.

[D-Sub]

oh believe me I wasnt saying it isnt a GREAT place to live. Sadly, I think that will be drastically affected by the current greed and lack of restraint.

I hope not for yours and others' sake; those who moved there to enjoy beauty and location. I guess using the word disgusting sounded like I meant "the place" is...no...far from it. its NICE. I loved many aspects of Bend!

I just dont like what's going on there...but maybe things will be ok once the locusts have moved on. I hope so!

[tdinardo]

I'm not sure if there's already a string on this topic but I figured it won't hurt to ask again.

I'm doing personal research to try and find the best place to live. I'm looking for a place that's within 30mins to a good ski area, under $300k for a nice 3bd/2bth house, has a good infrastructure for goods and materials, and most importantly has good paying jobs, which for me would be in high tech and for my wife the mortgage industry.

So far I've been focusing on these major city areas, Burlington VT, SLC UT, maybe Montana areas, and possibly Bend OR. Any others or comments or links to research already done?

I think this could be a good place to see what people think of where they live now also. Which for me is the West side of Portland, and at least 1hr plus for the nearest Resort. Not to mention the great Portland traffic and Ice incrusted 26 in the Sandy/Zigzag area.

Figured I'd chime in on this as I just recently had to make some relo choices myself. If I had a choice I would have chosen SLC. I flew out there with the wife and looked at houses and did the drive to the ski areas. If you're an outdoors person, I think SLC is really hard to beat. Multiple world class ski areas within 20-60 minutes, Olympic training facilities, if you speed skate you've got the fastest ice on the planet 20 minutes away, a world class roadracing facility <60 minutes away, a couple motocross tracks <60 minutes away, killer mountain biking and rock climbing everywhere you look.

There are a bunch of tech companies in the area. What's available really depends on what you're looking to do. Don't rule out governement tech jobs in the area as that may be a good option from a pay and promotion perspective (there's an FBI facility and a military base nearby).

The LDS (Mormons) thing is an issue, but some of the locals gave me some good advice on how to deal with it. Choose your house in areas where there are non-LDS churches. If you can deal with the commute, choose to live out near Park City (not in Park City - too pricey).

Unfortunately, the job I chose to take didn't allow me to work from anywhere this go around, so I'm now in the Seattle area. My wife was pissed - she wanted SLC to happen. :(

On a related side note - SLC is one of the cleanest cities I've been to. Very little litter. Minimal vandalism. The public restrooms are the cleanest I have ever seen. Every single one of them was spotless (including the stadium that hosted the NIN show I went to while I was in town). Sounds bizarre to say this stuff, but it was something that really stuck in my head from the trip.

[bartron]

Ginsu, You might want to try Kelowna. Lots of riding oportunities and a city of 100 000 with plenty of good weather in the summer at leastand a mild winter It is also the city with the most homes for sale over 1 000 000 dollars wich would be a boon for the mortgage industry.

Did I mention that the beaches are full of nubile hot women in the summer? :ices_ange

How easy is it to get around without a car ? It looks like you could get around on bike all year around. What is the sprawl like ? Typical North American or more European-like ? I've only found pictures of the downtown from a pretty far distance, not close enough to tell.

I'm reviving this this thread because I just saw an ad for tech job there and I'm considering applying for it.

Thanks

'later...

[Allee]

If you're going to consider Kelowna you could do a lot worse. There are some great snow areas around there.

It's actually not that big a city and the lifestyle is fabulous if you like hot summers and not too cold winters. It gets scorching in the summer, you can expect 35-40 deg every day through mid June to mid Aug, but it's a dry heat and not the humidity you'd be used to. Bushfires are frequent through the Okanagan in summer.

Real estate, however, is stupid expensive. Do some digging and see what you find, but all the real estate out that way that isn't being bought by people in the resurgent BC economy, is being bought by the oil rich from Alberta. If you're renting then you could find something relatively close to work and commute - one of the big advantages of not owning a home. When I drove through it actually looked pretty spread out to me, maybe that was just because we were staying on the outskirts and had to drive a long way to get into the city centre. But you could certainly bike for a lot longer than you could in Montreal.

I have friends moved there from Calgary three years ago and just love it. (But Daddy's money bought their house).

[bartron]

If you're going to consider Kelowna you could do a lot worse. There are some great snow areas around there.

The snow is the main thing tweaking my interest in Kelowna.


Real estate, however, is stupid expensive.
Yeah, that was one of the first things I checked. It's insane. And the further out you go from downtown, the more expensive it gets. That's wierd for me, since it's the opposite from what we have in Montreal, where the rich old farts are moving into the city and paying $300k for a 855 sq.ft. condo in Old Montreal, and the 25-35 crowd is moving off the island to buy detached houses with lawns in the front, back and sides for $180k.

Yep, my current renting situation is definitely the best choice now.



When I drove through it actually looked pretty spread out to me, maybe that was just because we were staying on the outskirts and had to drive a long way to get into the city centre. But you could certainly bike for a lot longer than you could in Montreal.

I expect the downtown core to be tiny. It looks tiny on Google Earth.


(But Daddy's money bought their house).
Ugh, don't get me started on that.

Thanks a ton for the info.

'later...

[Fleaman]

Hey Barton. In Kelowna, you can ride your bike all winter, maybe a few snow days but it only last a week or 2. The valley weather is very temperate, (winter average is -1 C) The Ski areas are above 5000' compared to ~1000' in the valley.

Kelowna has a major pain in its side, the floating bridge that connects the east and west side. It is being replaced but will be a few years. Traffic in the summer is sometimes gridlocked because of the tourists but other than that it is a really nice town of 100 000 people.

Real estate is crazy, starter homes are hovering around 200 000 now. But renting is feasable. If you come out, there are tons of French Canadians around also. I am sure you will find some groups to go riding with.

[7stg]

I have been looking as well here is some raw data to look. I at basically I end up in the cascades <st1:place w:st="on">Rockies</st1:place> or distantly the Sierra Nevadas. <st1:city w:st="on">Seattle</st1:city> or <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Denver</st1:place></st1:city> are the top contenders.

Track snow conditions on a daily basis. has animations for the last couple seasons for things like Snow Depth, Average Snowpack Temp, Snow Precipitation, and more. opera is good for this due to its ability to zoom in on the map
http://www.nohrsc.nws.gov/nsa/

Ecoregions
http://www.epa.gov/wed/pages/ecoregions.htm

More climate maps
http://www.climatesource.com/map_gallery.html
- http://www.climatesource.com/products.html

the us census site has tons of info and maps
http://www.census.gov/main/www/cen2000.html

lists the vertical feet at resorts in north America
http://verticalfeet.com/

Map point is a useful tool for creating drive time zones. Basically pick a point enter a time in minutes and it draws a perimeter showing you how far you can get.

http://www.findyourspot.com/ is awesome here is my list
Fort Collins, Colorado
<u1:p></u1:p>Denver, Colorado
Anchorage, Alaska
<u1:p></u1:p>Salt Lake City, Utah
Spokane, Washington
Loveland, Colorado
<u1:p></u1:p>Provo-Orem, Utah
<u1:p></u1:p>Idaho Falls, Idaho
Great Falls, Montana
<u1:p></u1:p>Boulder, Colorado
Tacoma, Washington
Kent, Washington
Colorado Springs, Colorado
<u1:p></u1:p>Seattle, Washington
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Boise, Idaho
Flagstaff, Arizona
Olympia, Washington <o:p></o:p>

[patmoore]

Pretty cool links, 7stg!

I'm getting the urge to put away the clubs and start carving!!!

[tex1230]

Pretty cool...I just wish I could move today. Here's my list:

Lewiston, ME
Steamboat Springs, CO
Durango, CO
Ketchikan, AK
Leavenworth, WA
Heber, UT
Divide, CO
Estes Park, CO
Camden, ME
Palmer,AK
Seward, AK
Petoskey, MI
Glenwood Springs, CO
Homer-Kenai Peninsula, AK
Whitefish, MT
Springville, UT
Saranac Lake, NY
Hancock-Houghton, MI
Helena, MT
Dandpoint, ID
Plymouth, NH
Salida, CO
Livingston, MT
Mount Vernon, WA

-Interesting to see so many Alaska towns in there...I'll see if I can convince Mrs. Tex... :eplus2:

[bartron]

7stg, nice links. I've already used findyourspot.com. Off the top of my head, my top towns were Boulder, SLC, Missoula MT and several places in Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Montana and a couple of left-field ones like Hartford CT.

Of those, I've only visited Denver and Boulder. I really liked Boulder.

So far, I haven't bothered getting into too much detail, like the snow depth of an area. I've been relying more on the resorts' reviews and reputations instead. But I do want to make sure the new location isn't an freakin' sauna in the summer like Montreal is, unless my new job involves several hours per day in tropical water (e.g. Caribbean ocean). :lol:



'later...

[patmoore]

A year after I first visited www.findyourspot.com I filled out the questionnaire a second time. Durango came up number one both times. Ironically, my wife used to be a desk clerk at a motel in Durango. I've never been there. Unless the website has changed its policy, it will allow you to add a limited number of spots that didn't pop up on your list in case you want to do research on places you find of interest. I subscribed to the service so I could add a larger number of additional places. BTW, the house prices section of the website needs to be updated. Last September, the child bride and I took an exploratory trip to look at places to consider for retirement. We found the info on the website very helpful as we toured Bozeman, Missoula, Kalispell/Whitefish, and Sandpoint (Idaho - home of Schweitzer Mountain). All nice places. We went back in February to do some cross country skiing in Yellowstone and checked out Jackson, WY (I rode the tram in its last season!). We visited a realtor who said the cheapest house in town was listed at $530,000! In March I went to Steamboat for the NASTAR Nationals and liked the town but it's not easy to get to.

In the past we've skied/boarded Park City, Heavenly, Alpine Meadows, Squaw Valley, Kirkwood, Taos, Telluride, Breckenridge, Vail, and Keystone. Frankly, any of them would be preferable to eastern resorts. We need a place with lots of sunshine, lots of snow, a reasonable sleeping altitude, great scenery, a great mountain with a respectable racing program, and a top notch golf course. The place has to be affordable and within 75 miles of a major airport. The closest match I found was Sandpoint. Unfortunately, Hollywood is starting to discover the community and we probably should have bought land three years ago. At this point, I can't consider retirement until we can afford it. I need to find a job (got laid off April 28th).

[Neil Gendzwill]

But I do want to make sure the new location isn't an freakin' sauna in the summer like Montreal is, unless my new job involves several hours per day in tropical water (e.g. Caribbean ocean). Naw, as Allee said Kelowna is dry and hot in the summer. I've been there for several vacations and it doesn't feel all that different from Saskatoon summers, which are very dry. Plus you've got a huge lake for cooling off in.

Big White is a great, great hill. If you get bored of that, Apex and Silverstar are easy drives. I'd move to Kelowna in a heartbeat if I didn't have so much invested in Saskatoon (family, friends, work).

[Jon Dahl]

[QUOTE=tex1230]Mount Vernon, WAQUOTE]
Well, you would have someone to go motorcycle riding with! And I could show you all the good carving runs, too.

[7stg]

http://www.skimountaineer.com/CascadeSki/CascadeSnow/SnowdepthComparison.pdf
http://www.skimountaineer.com (http://www.skimountaineer.com/)

[Rob Stevens]

I'd say Canmore, AB, but you're late on the affordable housing...

Calgary is a good town... lots of shred and LOTS of jobs of all kinds (thank the oil boom for that).

[Allee]

So Rob, how do you get to live in Banff? Do they still have the rule that you have to work there to live there? And are you ging to be around to ride with this season??

[skatha]

Calgary is a good town... lots of shred and LOTS of jobs of all kinds (thank the oil boom for that).
As contrasted with Houston...also with lots of jobs but...... :(

[Justin A.]

Pretty cool...I just wish I could move today. Here's my list:

Lewiston, ME
Steamboat Springs, CO
Durango, CO
Ketchikan, AK
Leavenworth, WA
Heber, UT
Divide, CO
Estes Park, CO
Camden, ME
Palmer,AK
Seward, AK
Petoskey, MI
Glenwood Springs, CO
Homer-Kenai Peninsula, AK
Whitefish, MT
Springville, UT
Saranac Lake, NY
Hancock-Houghton, MI
Helena, MT
Dandpoint, ID
Plymouth, NH
Salida, CO
Livingston, MT
Mount Vernon, WA

-Interesting to see so many Alaska towns in there...I'll see if I can convince Mrs. Tex... :eplus2:

STAY OUT OF PLYMOUTH!!! Its a nice little town and all, that was TOTALLY ruined for me by the college. PSU was (maybe still is) the #1 party school in the country. Translation: September-May nights sirens and rowdy drunks almost constantly. The closest mountain is Tenney, which kinda...um...sucks. Further is Loon, Waterville, Gunstock, Bretton Woods.

Saving grace: no sales tax, no income tax, nice summers, nice winters. GREAT fall, lots to do in the area all year round, and THE best chinese restaraunt I have ever been to (Hong Kong Garden-in a basement of another building in town, go down a dark alley and through the rusty door to enter.)

Major downsides: PSU, Drunks, Its a college town, Roads suck, NOTHING in town during the summer, kinda expensive, no ski areas really close, drunks, drunk driving, very little infrastructure, its nothing more than a little rest stop during the summer. LOTSA hicks.

A much better choice in the same area would be Waterville Valley, Rumney, Warren, or about 30 minutes up 93 is Lincoln, which is actually a really nice town-really touristy though and owned by the FREAKING Lahoot family.
________
Ford model a history (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Model_A)