O'Sin Swallow Tail 4807

[bumpyride]

Limit this to you guys that have actually ridden one of these things.

Thoughts, recommendations, shortcomings.

I'm weighing in at 150, and does a 168 make the most sense. Mostly backcountry and powder riding use for this board. I already have a Burton Fish that I haven't used yet.

Thanks.

[utahdeafcarver]

nice pow board, but have a shop cut the swallowtail a little longer and bigger, it doesn't sink much with the swallowtail it has. i'll be on my 2nd year on one this winter. the boat hull nose wants to force the board to lean to either side when you have to get on the groomers. have fun.

[RJ-PS]

Jeff shoot me some pics and specs of what the shop did with your 4807.
rj@exoticboards.com

[nekdut]

utahdeafcarver: interesting idea. Did it make a noticible difference?

Has anyone considered using rods or bars across the gap to increase torsional stiffness of a swallow tail board like some custom split tail alpine boards? You could maintain tail sink, while gaining some carving grip when down on the groomers. Thoughts?

[D-Sub]

DtD:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/search.php?searchid=16041

[Mark.Andersen]

UtahDeafCarver:

I've been tempted to take the jigsaw to the swallowtail of my 4807. I was wondering how much ABS there is back there to work with. Did your cut end up going into the wood/core or just shaving out more of the ABS?

Pics would be great!!!

Mark

[DrCR]

Cool idea. Never thought about modding my 4807. But then, I haven't had a chance to ride it yet. Yes, please post pics. :)

[nekdut]

DtD:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/search.php?searchid=16041

D-sub.. broken link? "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

What were you trying to search?

[utahdeafcarver]

I haven't actually done it yet. Like I said, last year was my first on that board in the pow but I was actually advised to get it cut then, didn't do it. After last year's experience, I'm going to go ahead and do the mod. I'll be plunking down the small dough to get it done soon and hopefully can get some pics and specs posted here. Sorry to imply otherwise, I was just speaking from experience and passing on what advice I was given. The advice came from none other than Dennis Nazari, owner and founder of Salty Peaks Snowboard Shop. You guys gotta see his skateboard and snowboard museum in his shop; utterly amazing!

[Yard Sale]

Isn't it easier and less destructive to just move the bindings back?

(I just bought a 168.)

[DrCR]

Isn't it easier and less destructive to just move the bindings back?
That would be way too easy and not nearly as cool. :D

[utahdeafcarver]

Don't assume I didn't. I used both TD1 Step-ins with Burton Fire boots and Flow bindings with Burton Driver boots, with bindings mounted in the rearmost possible position. Even then, I found I had to adjust my stance more to keep my nose up. The board is awesome when the nose is up and you're flying downhill at speed, not too much effort, but the swallowtail is not giving enough "sink" to make it as effortless as I think it should be at slower speeds.

[lonerider]

Don't assume I didn't. I used both TD1 Step-ins with Burton Fire boots and Flow bindings with Burton Driver boots, with bindings mounted in the rearmost possible position. Even then, I found I had to adjust my stance more to keep my nose up. The board is awesome when the nose is up and you're flying downhill at speed, not too much effort, but the swallowtail is not giving enough "sink" to make it as effortless as I think it should be at slower speeds.

Just to help out the original poster (and me since I weigh the same). How much do you weigh and do your have the 168 or the 178 4807?

I currently have a 156 Fish and that board extremely good at keeping it's nose up automatically, even at a lower speeds (although not if you come to a complete stop as it is a little bit smaller than most other powder boards). It is effortless to snake it through trees at any speed. At high speeds, you actually have shift your weight forward a little otherwise the nose go up too much and you start bouncing like a speedboat on the ocean. Definitely the Fish and the 4807 are designed for different types of powder riding.

[gdboytyler]

Just to help out the original poster (and me since I weigh the same) Definitely the Fish and the 4807 are designed for different types of powder riding.

I would disagree. I use to own both a Fish 156cm and 4807 168cm. I thought the two boards rode fairly similar. However, the 4807 was better in almost every aspect.

The 4807 floated better, felt more stable at higher speeds, carved better on groomed, and was easier to handle in moguls and chopped up powder. For riding powder in tight trees, the 4807 and the Fish were pretty much equal.

What was really nice about the Fish was that it held a good resale value. I bought the Fish brand new on EBay for $150. After the Fish got benched, I was able to sell it used on EBay for $150 :biggthump

My only complaint about the 4807 is that because of the 25cm waist, it does feel slow when going edge to edge on groomed runs.

Now that I like the 4807, it makes me want to try out a "real" swallow tail powder board.

[lonerider]

I would disagree. I use to own both a Fish 156cm and 4807 168cm. I thought the two boards rode fairly similar. However, the 4807 was better in almost every aspect.

The 4807 floated better, felt more stable at higher speeds, carved better on groomed, and was easier to handle in moguls and chopped up powder. For riding powder in tight trees, the 4807 and the Fish were pretty much equal.
That doesn't really sound like they ride similarly at all.

[gdboytyler]

That doesn't really sound like they ride similarly at all.

They ride similarly in that both boards are good for tree-riding.

The Fish and 4807 are both versatile powder boards on the shorter end of the scale. The two boards are in direct competition with each other.

From what I've read, bigger swallow tail boards aren't good for trees, but excel in wide-open bowls.

[lonerider]

They ride similarly in that both boards are good for tree-riding.Ah, but if you re-reading my post. You'll see that my previous sentence references as to how poorly the Fish rides in open-bowls at high speeds, whereas the 4807 doesn't have this issue... hence the following sentence about how the 4807 is different. It's crazy how I sometimes manage to string my thoughts together in a coherent manner :)

To the original author, gdboytyler is 135 lbs and rides the 168 cm board.

[Yard Sale]

utahdeafcarver, are you a lightweight? Maybe you don't have enough pounds to sink the tail.

I haven't mounted bindings yet and I'm wondering where to locate them for my 180 pounds.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

IMO Locate them as close to "Center" as possible. If you have to locate your bindings very far off the "Center" or sweet spot than you are on too short a board. Seeing guys riding the tail, straight legged, leaning back and pointing it straight is far to "Typical".


At 180cm I would definitely be on a 178cm , it is the larges 4807 and would likely allow you to mount closer to center which would inturn allow the board to "Flow" turns as intended. GO BIG !! There is no replacement for displacement!!! Big Board Bryan

Longboard Gallery (http://www.oldsnowboards.com/pics/Powder-Boards)

[Bordy]

I too have ridden both and own the Fish in the 56 and 60 size as well as the Malolo in the 62. I think the dynastar board is slow sluggish and a little boaring to ride. All the burton shapes are light snappy, and float just fine! At 150 you should give your Fish a try before you even think about a boat shape.

Jeff(utahdeafcarver) hit the nail on the head about the hull shape on the groomers. Very crappy.

I live in UT and hike all the time. I have ridden lots of big pow swallows and am just plan tired of halling around all that extra unneeded board. If you are a newbie pow rider then the big sticks helps, it makes life easy in till you feel good. The little pow boards give you the ability to plane and trim much better then any big swallow a skill that any Big mountain rider must master. Most of the time people pitch big shapes and you mention trim they look at you cross eyed because they have not had the pleasure of working the board on the virtacle plane! :eek:

I know that the snow is light fluffy and soft here and My friend ride all types of pow boards. I am never left behind on even my smallest fish. And once we hit the trees its all over. Also it easier to panic turn a pin tail shape then a swallow tail. :biggthump

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Good example of difference of opinions and and how snow conditions effect your choice of stick. At well over 200lbs. A 162cm would be like riding a Snurfer. Much to short for our typical snow conditions. Dusty dry pow is not seen very often. When it does , I can see how a short board could work ok. I have a fish , I need a second one for the other foot :p

Ability vs size is a no win discussion based in futility. Experts and beginners can ride short boards and long boards for many different reasons. Attaching ability to length is tricky at best.

Snow is on the way. Getting JAZZED

[Bordy]

Yup, The other overlooked factor is what type of pitch you dig. Most of what I ride i have no problem generating the speed to plane on any size board.

Bryan I was up to 185 at one point(Back down to 165 now!) and my short sticks held up great for me. I have some friends that are well over 210 who ride a short tapered shape in the Fresh UT snow but for you northerners with that wet stuff life is for sure different!

You should come down for the WTC every year we have had a hard boot gathering its dumped! Go figure!... :eek:

[Randy S.]

I'm thinking I want to chuck the 4807 that I have and get a big Axis, or maybe a split Prior ATV!!! for powder riding. Since I tore my achilles last season on my 4807 I'm thinking it has bad karma. If I only had the $960 for that split board. Anyone want to buy a 4807 that's been beat hard, but doesn't have a lot of days on it (delam'd one tail, p-tex repairs to base, boat p-tex ground thin by stupid shop monkey, edges scratched from rocks)?

[DrCR]

Anyone want to buy a 4807 that's been beat hard, but doesn't have a lot of days on it (delam'd one tail, p-tex repairs to base, boat p-tex ground thin by stupid shop monkey, edges scratched from rocks)?
A hush comes over the crowd... :D

You could always put it on ebay for ~$50 and see what happens. You'd have to make it really cheap at any rate. I got my OSin4807 new for $100 on ebay during the offseason, though I did talk the guy down from ~$150.

[Randy S.]

A hush comes over the crowd... :D

You could always put it on ebay for ~$50 and see what happens. You'd have to make it really cheap at any rate. I got my OSin4807 new for $100 on ebay during the offseason, though I did talk the guy down from ~$150.

Yeah, I got mine cheap too. I'm not really going to sell it. I'll keep it to hang on the wall if nothing else. I'd never sell someone a board that was as messed up as this one is.

[utahdeafcarver]

Sorry for not replying more regularly, I'm in the middle of many grad school assignments.

Indeed, I am a lightweight, only 135 pounds, and I ride the 178! No, don't give me any crap :nono:, I've been riding for years and race on a Rossi World Cup 182, which I can handle well. ;) But I'll admit that I probably should be on a 168 O'Sin 4807. Nonetheless, I got a great deal and enjoy the board in the pow.

Here's a 4807 for cheap:

http://www.geartrade.com/browse/116/792/477/item/30206

[Mike T]

So how many people have asked you if you want to trade your 178 for their 168 ;)

[sickmove]

I'm 5'11" 200lbs and ride a...well...I ride a frankenstien type pow board- a RS Emery 161.
A buddy and I cut a swallow tail into it, removing about 10 cm effective edge and plenty more surface area. I mounted the bindings as far back on the inserts as I could and I have had a great time on the board. It's a 151 with the same edge as a 161. It floats well and is incredible in the trees here in the east (tight). Too fast, just stomp on that back foot a little...trim, right Bordy? (BTW- you know Cattanach?)

A little OT, but my point is that the size hasn't been a problem for me yet.

-KC

[utahdeafcarver]

The 178 is not hard to get. Salty Peaks has a bunch of them. However, if anyone has a good condition 168 and wants to trade for my 178, I'll be happy to do it. Mine only has a couple days on it, only used in pow at Snowbird and Brighton, no scratches, and with my lightweight, practically nil effect on the camber, so a trade would have to be comparable. Act fast, as I plan to send it in for the swallowtail mod soon! :D

[Yard Sale]

I just took the plastic off mine. Never even mounted bindings and haven't yet prepped the base. Let's talk!

[Bobby Buggs]

You guys are really messin with me :smashfrea I have a 178 and now Im wondering if I should have the 168. Why would I want the 68? tell me so I dont have to get another one.
Im 5-10 180 and usually only get to ride it when I go out west like aka Crested Butte Feb2 this year. Forget about it here in the land of ice cube riding.

[Yard Sale]

The grass is always greener, or the powder is always deeper...

Maybe a 178 isn't ideal for me because on powder days I want to run The Chutes: 45-55 degrees, narrow, and crowded. But a 178 would just make me that much more faster than the skiers and jibbers, right? :eplus2:

[utahdeafcarver]

you want to trade? is that what you're offering? where in N. Nevada are you?

[DrCR]

Modding the tail...what kind of swallowtail shape would you mod it to?

Winterstick, Nitro, Prior, there are a lot out there.

[Bordy]

Too fast, just stomp on that back foot a little...trim, right Bordy? (BTW- you know Cattanach?)


-KC


Yep Cattanach and I are old friends. He's a great Cat, and lots of fun to make turns with. If you see him tell him and Sonya(we went to high school together) I said hello. And he needs to spend more time in hardboots!

And as far as trim goes yep, its' the ability to control planing depth by using fore and aft weight shifts to control speed. On a super deep day you can lean foward on a short board sinking the nose and creating drag and increasing control by using the nose as a brake you can slow down while still having the ability to turn quickly with the nose pressured. Some thing that can be very hard on a longer board. I find at my weight (165-175) any thing bigger then a 170 with a lot of surface area in the front is to much stick to control depth. On boards with a tail that sinks you can also stomp the back foot like you said at slower speeds, its also great to just set your hip when your on the tail and pivot around stuff with laser like results! Some thing a swallow tail doesn't do as well as a pintail, and I have broken one side of the tail off many times tring to make the pivot turns on swallows.:eek:

Jeff, If you can not find some one to do your tail for cheap bring it to me I'll make it happen for ya. Also I know Fast Eddie has a 164 in the wrapper he may trade you out for it and he is local. Of course you are always welcomre to anything in my quiver to play with! :biggthump

Some time the most fun sticks are the ones you have a hand in creating!

Plus you are more likley to force yourself to learn to ride the board well, even if you may not like it at first since you made it!

[Tom H.]

I picked up a new 168 over the summer. New meaning never used, not a new model this year. It had been sitting at a shop for a couple of years. It was the only size they had and I really wanted one.

I would much rather have a 178. I'd be happy to trade... if someone is really serious about it.

Tom

[bumpyride]

I had the Fish, and after reading all of the above, the only intelligent thing to do is buy the O'sin, so that's what I did. I figure my own style, which tends to be sharp quick turns wherever I am, is going to dictate the board I will like best, but you never know.

Thanks to all for the various takes on the different boards, but for not much money, I can afford to try to O'sin, so I'll give all your styles a shot.

Utah in late Feb.

[Bordy]

You can never have to many snowboards! :biggthump

Post up when your coming in to town, perhaps we can put thoose powder boards to use!

[bumpyride]

Will do. I believe it's going to be the week of the 24th of Feb. Will have a good sized crew going down. Mostly skiers and my Kid (36). 3 of us are pretty much down for just about anything. The others, I'm not sure of. Anything fun and steep.

Will do another thread just before we go. Any suggestions on off piste stuff and which areas are the best. So far from what I've heard Snowbird is the best, but I haven't been there as of yet. We'll be staying in Sandy or Union I think. Suggestions on that would be appreciated also.

Thanks

Fischer

[Bordy]

You should really spend at least 1 day at Snowbasin or Powder mtn. Some of Utah's best terrain and snow for freeriding! The Bird is epic on any day and a trip to Utah would not be cpmplete with out a day there! Brighton has some great back country and Sundance is on of the secert quiet cruiser spots. On the back side of the range the Canyons has the best back country but its all out side the gates and should only be explored if you have the right gear and knowledge. Park City is not only the home of the Hardbooter crew because it has the best alpine riding in the state but it also has tons of fun freeriding spots all inbounds and patrolled. :biggthump

For your skiier friends Alta makes the Bird look like a begginers Mtn. and Deer Valley has the best grommers this side of the Mississippi but only if you have skiis on you feet :mad:

Hopefully we can hook up and make some turns some where.

lodging can be a tricky thing since all of the areas ore spread out on the range but there is plenty of it available from motel to 5 star. If you stay in the SLC area every thing is less then a hour away some as close as 30 minutes. It really hard to go wrong in Utah.