OT: Toyota Prius---Driving Like a Fogey

[SWriverstone]

Since Holly's moving to NJ and will be driving back down here a lot, she traded in her gas-guzzling Takoma pickup for a Toyota Prius. I checked it out tonight for the first time---that car is slick!

She got all the bells and whistles, including the built-in GPS. The computer screen displays all kinds of dangerous-looking data on the electric-fuel hybrid efficiency---such as a bar graph that displays a running 30-minute average for fuel efficiency and battery recharge levels. It's a bit mesmerizing---and therefore a bit dangerous! I'd find myself staring at it as I drifted across the yellow line...LOL

The upshot is that after driving it around for a day, Holly and I were competing to see who could get the most kickin' efficiency. This was a blast, but it inevitably requires driving like a 90-year-old. :D Acceleration kills fuel efficiency, so I'm certain we were irritating the heck out of drivers behind us as we c-r-a-w-l-e-d up to speed, trying to keep that "Mpg-O-Meter" up above 50 or 60mpg. :)

The bottom line? Average fuel efficiency so far is over 50mpg---not bad, and beats the snot out of the Takoma! (Plus we have that environmental "feel good glow" about using half the gas...)

Anyone else have a hybrid?
Scott

[astrokel]

I don't have one but I was in a small town in western NY and there was a Prius parked outside. I was looking forward to seeing how it moved when the owner came out and got in to take off so I waited with baited breathe to hear what the engine sounded like... Well all I heard was a click and the thing moved out silently with only the sound of the wheels on the ground. It was the coolest thing and made me want one. I didn't realize you could choose to use just the electrics. What a stealth vehicle. You could sneak out without anyone around noticing! Congrats on the purchase Scott!

[kjl]

Yeah, I test drove one a while back (unfortunately, no AWD ;) ) and the dealer told us not to worry that the engine had stalled when we stopped for lights - the engine just shuts itself off and turns back on when you need the extra power. Very cool.

[ak_rider]

Lexus 400h. AWD snow-worthy hybrid. Very roomy, nav, disc changer, all the bells and whistles and it averages 38mpg, that's without driving like the afore mentioned 90 yr old, but i think we've all been there. It's just too fun to drive w/out using any gas. It has plenty of acceleration and will have no prob climbing the access rds to various ski areas. I also dig the super stealth mode. Big loud tailpipes are out, moving w/out making a sound is soo in

[BobD]

Just time. Many years ago when I was out of work and funds were low, I practiced efficient driving. Up'd my mpg by 50 to 60 %. But being unemployed, I had all the time in the world. Driving in socks helps to be delicate with the gas pedal.

BobD

[Randy S.]

The new Lexus 400h looks sweet. They sort of split the difference between giving it better mileage and giving it more performance. It gets better mileage than the gas version and it has more power too. Me? I'm waiting on the Acura MDX Hybrid in a year or two. I've only got 112K on my 01 MDX so I figure its got another 100K in it. Except I only get 21mpg on the fwy and 16-18 around town. :(

[Steve Dold]

Scott, check the actual milage vs. what the computer says. We got a Prius at work a couple of years ago and I took it on a 600 mile round trip to Southern CA (300 miles each way, no mountain passes or anything, all flat, 75 mph). I calculated the mileage both ways at 23 mpg, yet the computer said I was getting around 40-45 mpg. The car was fun to drive but only 3 mpg better than my Tacoma :confused:

In the City the Prius can probably do a lot better.

Interestingly, I find that when I listen to jazz music, I drive slower and use less fuel. I don't know why.

[nekdut]

Regarding the 400h, really sweet ride, but $50k?! I'll spend the $27k difference on gas. I got a new Legacy GT recently for $23k. AWD, 250hp, 0-60 in 5.2 sec. I do only get 22-25mpg, but man what a hell of a ride, and cheap to boot!

I am on assignment at Toyota so it is hybrid central for me. Priuses, highlanders, rx400h's, new IS and camry hybrids too. I know its the wave of the future, but they need to come out with full power (250hp or more and AWD), and good gas mileage before I will get one. I think a lot of others agree with me, even though the prius gets 50+ MPG, it only has about 100hp, and no 4wd/AWD option.

[astrokel]

Wow 4 wheel drive on an electric vehicle. The perfect snow conveyance with the high torque and straight as an arrow power curve... :biggthump

[jdgang]

sry to jack the thread but if holly needs any riding buddies me and a friend of mine ride vernon nearly every weekend. This year might be a little different he has a young baby and I have one on the way (march 16th) but I have convinced my wife that I need to snowboard for my sanity :lurk:

[skategoat]

Don't understand hybrids. You can never recoup the extra cost. I guess it's a statement vehicle like SUVs.

If the idea is to reduce our energy footprint, you're best off buying a used Civic, Echo or Tercel.

[Holly]

You can never recoup the extra cost.

Granted... I have not gone through a whole tank of gas yet to figure out the real MPG, but I did do the math and I think I should come out ahead. In addition to the $2000 credit I can take on my 2005 federal taxes, this is what I came up with:

Ave Monthly Miles...............2500 (believe it or not, I've been averaging 30,000/yr over the past 3 yrs :eek: )
Ave Cost Per Gallon of Gas.....$3.00

........Ave MPG.|.Gal.Gas......|.Fuel Cost/Month..|..Savings/Month..|..Savings/Year..|..Savings over 4 yrs
..................Per Month
Prius...40........62.5...........$187.50.......... ...$253.68...........$3,044.12........$12,176.47
Tacoma..17........147.0588235....$441.18



If the idea is to reduce our energy footprint, you're best off buying a used Civic, Echo or Tercel.

Now I do agree that it would have been better to get a used vehicle from an environmental standpoint. Buying something new means one more nonbiodegradeable thing being produced that will ultimately end up in a landfill (less whatever might be harvested from it to be recycled). :o

[Derf]

You don't drive a hybrid car because of the money. It is a common mistake people make, comparing regular cars and hybrid cars and finding out they can't get back the extra spending. You drive a hybrid car because it pollutes less. Clean air has a price. Some companies keep polluting becuase it is too expensive to reduce the pollution while others will pollute less because they want to, even if it costs more.

I have heard it costs more to build the Prius than the amount they sell the car for. Can anyone confirm?

Gotta go back to work for now...

[philfell]

My Saturn consistantly got between 35 and 40 miles to the gallon, and it wasn't a hybrib. A TDI Jetta is supposed to get 50mpg. Why do most hybrids use more gas than many non-hybrids?

[nekdut]

I have heard it costs more to build the Prius than the amount they sell the car for. Can anyone confirm?


Derf,

Close, but not entirely true. At invoice price ($20-21k) Toyota is pretty much breaking even on Priuses.

[big mario]

My wife's tdi bug gets 43+ combined driving, but under 40 if i'm driving :eplus2: . It is a 5 speed, and it is fast and a blast to drive. Oh, by the way Scott and Holly, it is in your best interest to get in touch with your inner nascar driver while cruising around :eek: in north jersey. Those people are nuts!!! I know because I used to be one of them, but i'm feeling much better now.
winter storm warning for the mtn's of co!!
mario

[mikemcse]

I am a bit skeptical of the new hybrids. I had a 1988 Toyota tercel DX 4spd hatchback and consistently got over 40 MPG on the highway and at times over 50 depending on conditions. Granted the car was a POS box car and had the worst brakes imagineable but it did the job. I had a 3 cyl Justy that was similar. I am sure there are many others here with similar stories.

18 years years later and with modern technology and engineering inventions the numbers have not improved for the most part. Just my 2 cents. :flamethro let the flames begin.

[Derf]

I am a bit skeptical of the new hybrids. I had a 1988 Toyota tercel DX 4spd hatchback and consistently got over 40 MPG on the highway and at times over 50 depending on conditions. Granted the car was a POS box car and had the worst brakes imagineable but it did the job. I had a 3 cyl Justy that was similar. I am sure there are many others here with similar stories.

18 years years later and with modern technology and engineering inventions the numbers have not improved for the most part. Just my 2 cents. :flamethro let the flames begin.

There are many reasons why numbers have not improved over time:

1) Cars are bigger and heavier. Sub-compact cars (Nissan Micra, Ford Festiva, Subaru Justy, Toyota Tercel just to name a few) used to weight around 800 kg and were small. Now they are around 1000 kg and are as big as old compact cars. Compact cars were 1000 kg and are now 1200 kg and are big like older intermediate cars. And so on. As an example, a modern Toyota Echo (replaced Tercel) is as big as an older Corolla, a modern Honda Civic is as big as an older Accord. Engines have grown up in size and power. An old Tercel was 80 hp, a new Echo is 108 hp. An old accord was 110 hp, a new one is between 160 hp and 240 hp. People want bigger cars and more powerful cars, as long as they don't drink more gas.
2) People want powerful cars here. The same Echo and Corolla are sold in Europe and in Australia. Here, the only engine for the Echo is 1,5L, over there the base engine is 1,2L and 1,5L is the optional performance engine. The Corolla has a 1,8L engine and in the other places, I think it is 1,5L or 1,6L that is standard.
3) Cars are now safer, requiring strudier frames and bodies, which weight more.
4) There are more gadgets in cars now. It is almost impossible to get a car with manual windows or locks. Also AC is much more common. All these gadgets add weight and add to the consumption.
5) Cars are quieter because of better sound insulation. This insulation adds weight.

In essence, the technology is there but the will is not. Companies don't sell really fuel efficient cars here because it won't sell well enough. It will feel underpowered to modern standards, will be noisier when driving and won't have all the gadgets people want.

[Jack Michaud]

2) People want powerful cars here.

People want powerful cars everywhere - it's just that in Europe, gas costs what, $7 a gallon? So over there, there is a large market for fuel efficient cars. If tomorrow the EU lifted all the gas taxes and prices fell to our levels (or our former average of $1.50/gal), auto dealers would instantly sell out of their sports car and SUV inventories.

Now that gas here has broken the $3/gal line, SUV sales are down like 40%, and hybrids are up.

[Allee]

I'm always amazed at some of the choices people make with regards to cars. For sure, there are a number of people who genuinely need and use a Ram truck, but for every one of those there's some poser with more money than sense who will never drive it off the tarmac. Or he buys it for his wife to shuttle the kids to school and back because it's big and safe if she gets into an accident (never mind that the other person gets pulverised). Said truck has feet of suspension travel, but she will STOP for rail crossings and speed humps.

Derf has a point with the power thing ... it certainly seems to be ingrained into the North American psyche. In redneck central Calgary, the oil execs and wannabe cowboys wouldn't be seen dead in anything but a true blue truck, and the bigger the better. Being from NZ, I'm used to the Echo being a 1.3, and a Corolla being a 1.3 or 1.6 litre. And Hummers are so rare that we import them for a car show, just so people can stare.

Buying any car is a tradeoff against what you do, what you like and what you can afford. I suspect that now that the gas prices have started to bite, a lot more people will be making wiser tradeoffs. Certainly at home, with gas at $1.50 per litre, a lot of my friends already have ...

I think Holly made a great tradeoff, although I'm sure there will be times when you're jamming gear in the back of it, and cursing that you no longer have a truck! :mad:

[Gecko]

across country this year, towing motorcycles/building supplies and snowboarding in New England. I looked at the Escape Hybrid and the Liberty CRD the CRD has a bigger range...still for me living in Japan for the last 3 years the Liberty feels HUGE...but a mini compact here runs a .6L engine,,,they even make 6 person minivans that small. BTW gas is 136Yen per Liter, diesel 101Yen per Liter.

[C5 Golfer]

People want powerful cars everywhere - it's just that in Europe, gas costs what, $7 a gallon? So over there, there is a large market for fuel efficient cars. If tomorrow the EU lifted all the gas taxes and prices fell to our levels (or our former average of $1.50/gal), auto dealers would instantly sell out of their sports car and SUV inventories.

Now that gas here has broken the $3/gal line, SUV sales are down like 40%, and hybrids are up.

Isn't odd that most high end gas guzzling cars come from Europe? Maybach, Mercedes, Rolls, BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Jaguar, Aston, Lamborgini, Porsche. Weird, must be some money over there somewhere that could care less about $7 gal. Most of the above build SUVs even tho they are built in USA.

[Gecko]

europeans are also the ones who invented/created/perfected the Common Rail Diesel engine which is infinatly more efficient than a gas engine it's same size, besides that fact that it will run most forms of Biodiesel

[pm_wizard]

Back on sound (or lack of sound) with hybrids. The Feds are getting concerned about the possibility of pedestrians getting hit by the car they didn't hear coming, and are considering requiring a minimum sound level. To extend the idea, you would be able to choose the sound characteristics of your hybrid much like downloading phone ring tones. Hmmm, a hybrid that sounds like a 68 hemi or a Ferrari... Maybe you want that perfect dry clutch Ducati!

John

[Jack Michaud]

Sweet. My hybrid is going to sound like an Imperial Tie Fighter.


Allee... let me get this straight... are you saying North Americans are genetically predisposed to be careless about their environment?

[Derf]

Back on sound (or lack of sound) with hybrids. The Feds are getting concerned about the possibility of pedestrians getting hit by the car they didn't hear coming, and are considering requiring a minimum sound level. To extend the idea, you would be able to choose the sound characteristics of your hybrid much like downloading phone ring tones. Hmmm, a hybrid that sounds like a 68 hemi or a Ferrari... Maybe you want that perfect dry clutch Ducati!

John

I am a cyclist and I do a lot of commuting. Even in electric mode, you hear an hybrid coming, even with the wind in my ears, because of the noise of the tires. I think most of the noise modern cars produce comes from the tires. To not hear an hybrid coming, it has to go around 10-15 km/h and at that speed, there is an impact, but not that big.

[Justin A.]

Im with Darth Jack, except I want my horn to sound like R2-D2

I notice the "there's no replacement for displacement" thing every day. At m college, every time a small car or truck takes off fast out of the lot, at least one person says "woah man, take it easy on her, she's only a four/six".
________
Vaporizer Wiki (http://vaporizerwiki.com)

[pm_wizard]

The concern is for pedestrians, who don't hear it coming creeping behind them through an intersection. But just think of the possibilities (replete with irony) of a lumpy big block idle as you nudge a pedestrian through the cross walk!

John

[Allee]

Not at all ... maybe it's just that having had cheap gas for so long, a lot of North Americans (including Canadians) still regard it as a right. There's an awful lot of noise being made at present about how the Feds in Canada should scrap gas taxes to keep the prices down. Or, people could buy more fuel efficient vehicles and drive less, but that doesn't seem to be a very popular option.Seems like the Europeans "got smart" quite a while ago.

Like I said, choices have to be made. If you don't mind spending $100 a week to run your truck, good for you. A lot of people have better things to do with their $$.

We all have a responsibility to look after the environment, not just North Americans. Unfortunately, it's a hard sell message. I wonder what the world our kids grow up in will be like.

[C5 Golfer]

Sweet. My hybrid is going to sound like an Imperial Tie Fighter.


Allee... let me get this straight... are you saying North Americans are genetically predisposed to be careless about their environment?

Hmmmm.. I think I will opt for the M60 Abrams tank with a simulated howitser. The way some people drive here in the mornings is scary.

[marz]

How about pedestrians LOOKING before they cross, instead of blathering on the PHONE!! :smashfrea

Honda's Hybrids are known as partial/mild hybrids, any time the car's moving the gas engine is on, not as efficient or clean as Toyota's Hybrid System.
The Ford Escape uses the 2nd gen. hybrid licensed from Toyota. Not as good as the latest Synergy Drive Toyota kept for themselves. Thats why it gets the same MPG as the much bigger/more powerful Toyota Highlander Hybrid!

The hybrid Toyota Highlander ROCKS!! Same mechanicals as Lexus 400h, AND cheaper with more space. They're the only vehicles on the market that have an active stabilty control that can apply POWER to either or both rear wheels to help avoid a skid. I could use that on my freestyle board! :lol:

It's a 7 passenger midsize SUV, 0-60 in 7 sec. same as the BMW X5 4.4 V8, AND gets 32 mpg instead of 15. The perception that hybrids are slow is wrong. Electric motors have large torque #'s at low rpm. That's why Lexus is coming out with high performance hybrid cars, not just for fuel economy & low emissions.

Buy the way, the Prius is MIDSIZE, with more space than a Mazda 6 hatchback & similar 0-60 times as 6, Accord, & Camry. Yeah I could drive a used Echo/Corolla for less, but I have ALOT more space for kid/dog/gear with 90% lower emissions! :biggthump AND the SAFETY of ABS, Traction Control / Stabilty Control, Side Air bags/Curtains not available on older cars.

Oh Yeah I get about 20 mpg better than my Echo! :eek: All this for about the price of a Camry or Accord, plus it has Smart Key like the $65K Lexus LS430. ;)

I consistently get 60 mpg without driving like my grandma!My customers average 45-55 mpg, most just under 50mpg.
The other misconception about hybrids is that you have to accelerate sloooowly. You need to think ahead while you drive; traffic, terrain, stoplights. Holly, best efficency is with quick acceleration to just above the speed limit, off the gas, then eeeease onto it to keep it in electric to maintain your speed. It's known as "Pulse driving".

Check out PRIUSCHAT.COM for lots of helpful & geeky info. :biggthump It's the Hybrid version of BOL. :D Some guys just got almost 1400 mi. on a 12.5 gal. tank, 109 MPG in a stock Prius! :eek:

[bartron]

Back on sound (or lack of sound) with hybrids. The Feds are getting concerned about the possibility of pedestrians getting hit by the car they didn't hear coming, and are considering requiring a minimum sound level.


I heard of that before as well.



To extend the idea, you would be able to choose the sound characteristics of your hybrid much like downloading phone ring tones.


We already have that. It's called a car stereo blasting with the windows rolled down. We've had it in Montreal for many years ! :)

I dread the sounds some clowns will come up with. Hopefully they'll market and price it so that only families would buy one. But then again, given how many kids love to hear the Barney songs...

Here's one: the sound of a guy yelling "Get the hell outta the way !!" at the top of his lungs. :eplus2: Actually, it that would be more suitable for the horn sound.

I honestly think that after a while people will start praying for silence, believing it would be worth the risk of getting run over.

[Hagen]

Isn't odd that most high end gas guzzling cars come from Europe? Maybach, Mercedes, Rolls, BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Jaguar, Aston, Lamborgini, Porsche. Weird, must be some money over there somewhere that could care less about $7 gal. Most of the above build SUVs even tho they are built in USA.

You are forgetting all the smaller cars that they build over there and that don't make it over here. Also most European cars that they sell here are only sold with the bigger/biggest engines...

Here are a few examples of cars that you can't buy here - Audi A2, BMW 1 series, Mercedes A-class, VW Polo and Lupo.

Diesel engines also became quite popular in Europe - because of the better gas mileage. In Germany over half of all new cars sold have diesel engines... ...but here you can only get a few. In California they don't even sell the VW TDI models... :(

...and I would think that people who buy the brands that you mentioned really care about the high gas prices. Chances are that they make some extra money becaus of the higher gas prices.

[pm_wizard]

I hired a BMW 118 diesel in Berlin last week. I put 486 km on it in two days, and it took 30.8 li (at Euro 1.05 I think) of diesel to refill the tank to brimming. On top of that I was travelling on the AVUS at 175 km/hr much of that mileage. A very impressive performer even with 4 adults in it.

On the other hand, we already have the Smart car in Canada, and the B series MB is coming soon.

John

[Gecko]

Sweet. My hybrid is going to sound like an Imperial Tie Fighter.

Jack is a geek :ices_ange

[pm_wizard]

Isn't this whole board filled with geeks! Of course some geeks drive big gas guzzling vehicles.... To each their own.

John

[C5 Golfer]

I have a friend who has a Prius and he drove to Spokane last weekend and he said his gas tank had more gas in it when he arrived than when he left. Sometimes you have to take these high mileage figures with a grain of salt. :smashfrea