OT: Home Theater tips ?

[willywhit]

New format looks great so here's one to pick the brains of the BOL braintrust.Since the wife started her "little" remodeling of the condo(over a month ago) I've decided to step up "my" room, the basement and command center. The current playroom has an adequate 50" rear projection Toshiba TV(it's gotta go) through the stereo system but far from a 5.1 surround system with a HDTV flat screen set up that I'm planning. I'm doing this on a modest budget and don't plan on sinking 10 grand into a psuedo "home theater". I know the basics ie center channel, sub woofer, passive speakers, etc and my buddy does high end installation stuff for big bucks home theaters and we've scoped out all the cable runs, etc. I'm just wondering what you guys can tell me as I do the research to put together a real surround sound system with a 34-36" flat screen HDTV tube tv.John Gilmour knows alot about this stuff and I'm basically teaching my buddy to kitesurf in exchange for the wiring,etc so ANY tips are really appreciated.

[Jack Michaud]

TV: can't go wrong with Sony. Sony makes a lot of junk, namely their H/T receivers for one, but their TVs are tops.

Decent receiver on a budget: Harmon Kardon. I would pick H/K over Yamaha or Denon. If you can spend a little more look at NAD and Rotel.

Speakers: a friend of mine in the business swears by NHT. Based on his critique, these will be my next speakers. If you need to go cheaper, the Boston Acoustics CR line is a great value. I like them better than Cambridge Soundworks.

I don't know anything about Bose.... Todd?

Subwoofer: you've missed the boat, but THIS (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5789263206&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1) would have been killer!!

[Hagen]

It really depends on what your goals are...

...I myself have a Sony receiver and bose speakers together with a rather crappy TV. Works fine for me. But I also know people who prefer to spend big $$$ on just a two speaker setup with seperate pre-amp and power-amp instead of spending the same or less money on a surround setup.

Here is what I would do / look for if my wife would let me shop for a home entertainment system:

- look for a receiver that is in my price range and has all the inputs that I need (e.g. multiple component video inputs, digital audio inputs, enough s-video inputs, may be hdmi...)

- I would probably go with bose speakers again - I like small speakers that you don't notice and that are not in the way yet still sound good

That was the audio part. Now about the TV... ...I would probably go for a DLP rear projection TV right now - good price/quality ratio. I'm not too convinced by the quality / price ratio of current LCD/plasma TVs. Good flat pannels are too expensive, cheap ones don't really have the quality - in my opinion anyway...

Other importent components:

- dvd player: Would probably look for one with hdmi output (if your TV supports it) - all digital connection! I have another requirement - easy hack to enable European DVDs plus PAL to NTSC conversion built in. ...I every so often get DVDs from Germany. I found a Philips DVD player that does all that - just 4 key presses to enable the hack :cool:

- TiVo - a must! Would like to buy the DirecTV HD TiVo - but don't have the money right now... ...and would also need an HD ready TV. Also DirecTV will switch their video compression to H.264 for future HD channels - makes sense to wait for that since current boxes won't be able to handle that...

Hagen.

[nekdut]

Bose BLAH!

Read this: BOSE FAQ (http://www.fiendation.com/300zx/bosefaq.htm)

:cool:

[Pat Donnelly]

The HD "tube" we have had for about 7 months is a Sony - 34" Widescreen XBR® HDTVKD-34XBR960 and it offers an excellent picture. If you go this route then I would suggest upgrading your DVD player with Sony's latest HDMI (high def module interface).

Sound - be carfeful on ceiling firing floor speakers if you have a suspended ceiling then the tiles will absorb the sound. The wife's like the little speakers but I say it is hard to beat a set of 42" towers. Check out Costco for their sub-woofers . . . you may want two for extra kick but the wife may not like seeing the pictures on the wall moving when the effects kick in. I bought a KLH (sub-woofer) from Costco a few years ago but the last time I looked they were offering a slightly better product at a reasonable price.

Also, when we went HD we dropped Dish and went back to Comcast so we could get the national networks in HD.

Check out the picture quality during standard (non-HD) broadcasts as the picture quality may not be as good as what you might expect from an HD set.

[willywhit]

It's a pretty small room, 11 by 13 with 8' ceilings so a death star sub might piss off my condo neighbors on both sides.Bose does make some potent tiny cubes that could be almost invisible and we'll tuck in the sub next to the new 92" sofa.I've got some quality speaker wire http://www.tappanwire.com/ and it's supposed to be "way better than monster cable".

[Hagen]

Have to agree with Pat - CRTs are the way to go for picture quality. That is if you can live with the max. 34 or 36" screen size and the overall size and weight of the TV.

...about wires, I started to buy monster cable since I had the money back then. But I'm not sure if I can really hear a difference between different cables... ...and I'm working on audio related stuff for consumer electronics.

But for video (especially analog) the cable can make a big difference. For digital I'm not sure. But then regular hdmi or dvi cables are quite expensive to begin with...

[Jack Michaud]

I'm pretty sure that next year (or soon, regardless) is the year that the FCC has mandated all broadcasts switch to HD. Whenever that happens, the price of HDTV is going to plummet.

My only criticism of sat/sub combinations with the tiny little satellite speakers is that I think they lack good mid-bass. I think a powered sub combined with bookshelf speakers with 5-6" woofers is the ultimate combo that gives you the full spectrum. That is, if you can't do towers.

[Tommy D]

I got a theatre in a box (DAV-FR1) from Sony for xmas last year. It's only a few hundred bucks, and it doesn't sound like the route you want to go.

But, for low budgets, and small rooms, it works fantastic for DVD/digital cable. As Jack said in his last post, the small speakers lack good midrange, but that's only noticeable if I play CD's. But it does everything I need it to do; the only weak link in my setup is the 15 year old 25" TV.

So, it may not sound as good as a setup costing 2-3 grand, but bang for the buck, I'm impressed; sound quality while watching DVD's is very good. Someday, I do want to put together a high-quality component theatre, but I still have snowboarding goodies to buy! :)

[Hagen]

I'm pretty sure that next year (or soon, regardless) is the year that the FCC has mandated all broadcasts switch to HD.

When I started to work on HDTV systems back in '98 the word was that this would have happened by now... It seems that every year it gets pushed out again. :confused:

But I agree, once it's mandatory and analog TV gets switched off, DTVs will become much cheaper. ...and it's getting much cheaper already, you can get 26" 16:9 CRTs for about $500 and 32" flat pannels are getting closer to $1000...

[patmoore]

About six months ago I purchased a 52" JVC HD set with HD-ILA technology. It's a projection set that takes the best of DLP and improves on it. When we viewed it in Best Buy against LCD, Plasma, and DLP, it blew away all of them. The price wasn't too prohibitive either. I think I paid about $3500 for it. When friends come over it's fun to watch their reactions when they see the incredible picture. Coupled with DVR, it makes TV viewing fun again.

Check 'em out (http://tinyurl.com/6uefn)

[jason_watkins]

TV:

Since you have a deadicated basement room you can darken, consider front projection. The full on movie experience, and surprisingly affordable. projectorcentral.com is a good place to research some options.

Speakers:

A set of something like NHT's SuperZero combined with a good subwoofer can sound excelent. Another safe option would be most of B&W's line, their quality is excelent. Energy is another good brand, and some of their Connesuire line has been for sale online at a fantastic deal lately.

In general I'd suggest you stear away from what Best Buy et all sells, and go listen to some speakers at an independant hifi store. Find what you like, then find the best deal on it online.

Subwoofer:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/ and http://www.hsuresearch.com/ are probibly the best values.

[mnfusion]

I can't comment on HDTV and DVD players that go with it b/c I can't afford them myself, so here's my $.02....

I have owned 3 home theatre systems over the past 10 years. I started with the best, all high end, Krell, etc... Ended up selling b/c I needed money for other things. After owning the best you can buy I have come to this conclusion, spending money does not equal good sound. You need to look at the shape and accoustics of your room. Sometimes speakers that cost $600 sound just as good or better that ones costing $2000 depending on your room.

First thing first, go and listen to as many speaker/amp combos as possible. Everyone hears things different (women hear treble better than men). A Yamaha amp will make one set of speakers sound one way and a Denon amp will make them sound another. DO NOT BUY UNTIL YOU FIND A COMBO YOU LIKE!!!! I can't stress that enough. And don't buy because someone else likes them.

Personally I have a Denon reciever and Definitive Technology Power Monitors with matching center. I don't use rear surrounds anymore. Not really that important to me anymore. I'm saving up for a 15" sub still though. The sub is probably the biggest investment you can make in a home theatre. It creates the 3 dimention sound you want. Even those with sub par speakers can find that just by adding a sub they can solve their sound problem.

Brands I like: Denon and Pioneer Elite. Esp the Poineer Elite. Speaker-wise: Klipsch and Definitive Technology. I swear by the DT now. Best sounding speakers I have ever heard.

As for DVD players, right now I have a $100 sony and it works fine for me. My TV can't use the progressive scan so why spend more for it. Also with the blu wave (I think that is what they are called) disks comming out soon I don't want to invest too much money into a format that may not be compatable with new technology.

There you go. Hope it helps you somewhat. I'm sure there will be those out there that disagree with me, but this is why I said go listen to as many combos as you can. And bring your wife with you even if she could care less about electronics, she hears things you can't.

And one last thing, skip the theatre in a box package. If you are remotely an audiophile in anyway you will be disappointed quickly. Good luck.

Oh yea, and like what was said above, stay away from Best Buy, etc... They know nothing and their stuff is junk IMHO.

[gmarsden]

I'm pretty sure that next year (or soon, regardless) is the year that the FCC has mandated all broadcasts switch to HD. Whenever that happens, the price of HDTV is going to plummet.

.

The 2006 date was dependent on 85% of viewer being switched to DTV, which hasn't happened. Currently they are trying to get a hard Jan 2009 mandated for DTV. There is no mandate for HDTV at all, it is for digital TV and it is because the government wants the low channels (2-6) and high channels (53-69) back so they can sell them for billions to private interests and public safety.

If you are anywhere near a major city (<50 mi), you can pick up digital TV with HDTV in primetime with a UHF antenna and a ATSC tuner, either an external box ($200), or the ATSC tuner built into new TVs.
It is the best picture quality that you can get today and there are no monthly bills.

If you are interested in further information, antennaweb.org gives you an idea of what is available for your area.

- Greg

[Jack Michaud]

Borderboy, you say you had the best that money can buy? So you had a pair of Wilson Grand Slams? Mark Levinson amps? Transparent cables? (or similar stuff) Ceramic cones under everything? Power conditioners? And now you can't afford hdtv and your favorite stuff is Denon and Pioneer?? (I prefer H/K for similar money) You don't run rear speakers but the sub is going to give you 3 dimensional sound? Umm, that all just doesn't jive.

Also, listening to equipment in a store only gets you half way there. Most stores have concrete floors. The wood floor in your home is your passive radiator, a free extra woofer. No equipment is going to sound the same in the store as it will in your house. The best thing to do is to narrow your selection down via research and testimonials to two, maybe three choices of electronics and speakers. Then buy them all from places that have 30 day satisfaction guarantees, set them all up at home and try them out. Just be careful so you can return the stuff you don't want!!

[mnfusion]

(roll eyes here)

Best is a relitive term now isn't it. The majority of movie theatres use Klipsch speakers but yet you fail to mention them. Yes I spent thousands of dollars on audio equipment and went into major debt. I sold all of it to pay it off. and bought less expensive stuff. Most people cannot tell a properly tuned sony or (gasp) pioneer from an amp/reciever from Krell anyways.

Yup, I like the Elite series from Pioneer. It gives great sound for my non-dedicated, angular room I have it in. I don't want or need a room full of ugly audio equipment taking up alot of space. I no longer need fancy equipment to stroke my own ego. I now would rather enjoy the outdoors or other things than sit in front of an expensive HT set-up. I would rather invest my thousands in my retirement and other investments than expensive toys that I can get nearly the same sound or performance from from less expensive equipment.

If you want to get into a pissing match over what 'best' is do it without me. I have better things to do here than that. I simply offered some advise based on experience, 'SPENDING MONEY DOES NOT EQUAL GOOD SOUND'. Get some average stuff, get it tuned to your space by a professional, and that will make more of a difference than spending alot on fancy equipment most can't appreciate anyways.

My $.02. Peace. :cool:

[k_t]

There have been a lot of good brand names mentioned in this thread. Some other speaker manufacturers to look at might be Polk Audio and PSB. If you plan on using the system to listen to music on as well, you should not skimp on the front right and left speakers as they are what you will use for listening to music, unless you are the type who thinks that a lot of digital effects are cool. Personally I think that they do more to distort music than enhance it.

When listening to video in surround the two most important speakers are the center channel speaker (dialog makes up over 60% of the sound track of most movies) and the sub woofer for impact or drama from the most subtle things as a car door slamming shut to the heavy sound of a water fall in a scene to the big explosion from a car wreck or bomb going off. That said, the first # in the description of a surround system, i.e. 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 refers to the 5, 6, or 7 full range speakers in the system where the last number, .1, refers to the sub woofer channel. I would not recommend a Bose system over a good speaker system. Using a true sub woofer takes advantage of the better “steering” of the low frequencies in movie sound tracks or broadcast video and adds the needed dynamics of the sound track. I am not saying that Bose is not good; it has a well defined spot for a lot of situations.

Someone mentioned cables. Good video cables are the best upgrade you can do to a middle of the road DVD player when connecting it to a good display. Other cable manufacturers not mentioned that are good are Tributaries and Phoenix Gold. If you change your mind and get stuck on the Idea that you need a flat panel TV, check out the Panasonic 37” HD plasma (TH-37PX50U). Right now it is most likely the best in its class for the dollar spent. Fujitsu and DWIN in a 42” if your budget could handle it would be better. Toshiba and Panasonic both have excellent 34” direct view (CRT) HDTV’s that could save you a couple of hundred that might better go toward nice speakers (the sound is half of the movie experience) or a better surround receiver with ultra wide band component video switching (best for HD) or even HDMI switching. Because you will only need one audio cable for any new video component (optical or coax digital) you might want to get a “better” grade rather than just “good” and if you were doing a high end system you might want to think about the “best”.

Good luck and have fun with it.:lurk:

kt

[Jack Michaud]

Best is a relitive term now isn't it.

Umm, no. The best is, well, the best.

[trailertrash]

Umm, no. The best is, well, the best.

stand down jack, i think he just meant he had high end stuff a "figure of speech" if you will.

[SWriverstone]

Well, I certainly can't throw stones since I own my fair share of material goods...but I've gotta say I'm amazed at the general popularity of "home theaters" and how much money people spend on 'em.

I did without TV or movies for a long time and...didn't miss 'em one bit! :) Though I enjoy a good movie as much as anyone, I enjoy a good book more...and books always leave a more lasting impression. Lately, I've noticed that no movie I see (regardless of how good) ever stays in my mind longer than a couple days...and many I've already forgotten the second I walk out of the theater. Don't think it's my ADD mentality...but rather the extreme lack of depth.

I've been a professional musician much of my life, and spent years playing in symphony orchestras...and I don't even have a good stereo system! Just as movies pale compared to real life, I find listening to music doesn't even come close to actually playing it.

For me, it's the passive-versus-active participation thing. I'd rather engage my mind than simply be fed. (No "holier-than-thou" attitude intended! :))

Scott

[jdgang]

if you are on a budget then believe it or not those systems in a box are not really that bad. just buy one from a good company. the most important part of the system (if you are going to spend the extra money on) is the speakers and the wires. plus the size of the room is small enough you really dont need anything that big

[Enzo]

What's your actual budget? I was in a similar situation as you several years ago. At the time I was living in a condo with a small living room (like yours) and built a modest HT system for a little over a $1000. I bought a Harmon Kardon AVR510 receiver as an "open box" special at Circuit City. The receiver is very powerful and has more than enough options and inputs. For speakers I purchased Klipsch SB series bookshelfs--SB2's for front, SB1's for surround, and a center (KSC)--all discounted on Ebay. Even though these are Klipsch's "entry-level" speakers which can be found at Best Buy, the sound quality is great. In the condo I didn't own subwoofer because the bookshelfs were quite loud and actually provided some bass for my small room. Also, they kept my neighbors happy! Since moving into my new home last year, I splurged and purchased an SVS sub which drops BOMBS!! If I had this sub in my condo, I would've gone broke paying fines for noise violations from the police.

Since you have a small room and neighbors to contend with you may want to lean towards a high quality set of bookshelfs and surrounds or a complete satellite system. Also, this site helped me out a lot: http://www.audioreview.com/

[MR. JOHN DEERE !]

enzo, i finally got a real power boat. it came down to a 42' outerlimits with 3 502 bravos and a 12' aluminum with a 15hp johnson. i went with the big boy the 12 aluminum. :boxing_sm :boxing_sm

[Tommy D]

if you are on a budget then believe it or not those systems in a box are not really that bad. just buy one from a good company. the most important part of the system (if you are going to spend the extra money on) is the speakers and the wires. plus the size of the room is small enough you really dont need anything that big

Yeah, what JDGANG said. As I said above, my Sony in a box works great for the room I have, and the budget I had to work with. Movies sound fantastic, but the system falls short for listening to music. Not to mention the fact that I did not want to spend a lot of time researching and matching components, etc. Heck, the weakest link in my home theatre is the TV. :freak3:

I know I can put together a much nicer setup, but not until I get a nicer house, and a good room to set 'er up in.

[Justin A.]

I can personally reccomend the Creative Labs speakers. www.creative.com I think the model is I-Triuge, or somehting similar. The satellites are very very small, yet they still have incredible power and sound. For such small speakers, they are incredible, for any speaker, they sound damn good. It comes with a modest sub-8", but I think they have and optional 12". And for the amp to set it all up by, there are three names you should give serious consideration to: Harmann Kardon, Bose, and AR (acoustics research). In my opinion, those three make the absolute highest end audio equipment there is, although Im sure others could dispute it. Good luck setting up your theater!
-Justin

Oh, also if cost is no object, see what you can do about using fiber-optic signal lines, they're much smaller than copper, and a fiberoptic cable has much more capacity than a copper wire of similar size.
________
Dodge Dynasty (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Dodge_Dynasty)

[jdgang]

Yeah, what JDGANG said. As I said above, my Sony in a box works great for the room I have, and the budget I had to work with. Movies sound fantastic, but the system falls short for listening to music. Not to mention the fact that I did not want to spend a lot of time researching and matching components, etc. Heck, the weakest link in my home theatre is the TV. :freak3:

I know I can put together a much nicer setup, but not until I get a nicer house, and a good room to set 'er up in.


thats what i brought and tommy is right. music does not sound all that good with the system. but i had a pair of advent 2 way tower speakers that make it sound good

[Enzo]

enzo, i finally got a real power boat. it came down to a 42' outerlimits with 3 502 bravos and a 12' aluminum with a 15hp johnson. i went with the big boy the 12 aluminum. :boxing_sm :boxing_sm

Nice guy!! Time to peel off those Cigarette stickers on the Doneks and slap 'em on the side of your "Lil' Gun". Actually, forget the Cig. stickers--if you want to make that sucker a real boat, I have a bunch Outerlimits stickers kicking around. :AR15firin

[P06781]

[QUOTE=jason_watkins]TV:

Since you have a deadicated basement room you can darken, consider front projection. The full on movie experience, and surprisingly affordable. projectorcentral.com is a good place to research some options.

You should really check out a rear projector dlp system (projector & pull down screen). I have had a Infocus X1 for 2+ years now and still love it. The ones out now are even better. For $800 you get 100" screen and great resolution. Best to hook it up via the vga computer connecter if possible, otherwise s-video is still not bad. I use $20 25ft ebay svid and a vga to component cables which work great. The BIG screen is way better than the best sound system although if buying speakers I would spend the $ on 2 towers with a good matched center channel and the smallest HU sub.

Jim

[MR. JOHN DEERE !]

Nice guy!! Time to peel off those Cigarette stickers on the Doneks and slap 'em on the side of your "Lil' Gun". Actually, forget the Cig. stickers--if you want to make that sucker a real boat, I have a bunch Outerlimits stickers kicking around. :AR15firin

is that what you had on the lake? those guys are making some really nice skiffs. the outerlimits factory is about ten minutes from my house. little overkill, but the cougers dig em, and thats what its all about,ova.

[Enzo]

is that what you had on the lake? those guys are making some really nice skiffs. the outerlimits factory is about ten minutes from my house. little overkill, but the cougers dig em, and thats what its all about,ova.


jd-
yup. my gramps had a 37' OL with supercharged 575's. :eplus2:

[k_t]

jd-
yup. my gramps had a 37' OL with supercharged 575's. :eplus2:

so is that 720p, 1080i, or is it the new 1080p..........and what did he use for speakers? :smashfrea

[Enzo]

so is that 720p, 1080i, or is it the new 1080p..........and what did he use for speakers? :smashfrea
:freak3:
ok, ok
here's a tv question....
anyone upgrade from a rear projection widescreen to a DLP? does the showroom floor "WOW" factor eventually wear off? I'm not looking for technical facts....just purely from the perspective of picture quality and viewing enjoyment, are the DLP's truly worth the $1000+ premium over standard rear projections?

[k_t]

Hey Enzo<O:p</O:p

I am glad you have a sense of hummer. I was not sure after posting that it would be funny to you. Glad it was. I only can watch the cigarette/cigar boats on TV.
<O:p</O:p
Yes is the short answer. Stop here if you do not want to get board.<O:p</O:p

The DLP TV's are much brighter than the CRT (or standard rear projection) TV’s which make them better to see in a room where you have very little light control in the daytime. Being that they are "micro displays" which is the same family of display technology as plasma and LCD, the performance for HD is better. The viewing angle from the side is much better as well without the issue of reflections you get with most CRT rear projection. And unless you have a newer (very new) standard rear projection TV you will not be able to use any HD source on it to its fullest potential. Some other things to note is that the depth and weight of the DLP TV’s is about half as much as a standard rear projection TV and there are some out there with 61 inch screens less than 7 inches deep and only 135 lbs. in weight (with out the stand). Most are about 14 to 16 inches in depth.<O:p</O:p<O:p

Most manufacturers are now putting most of their effort into this technology which makes for better selection and will make for even better performance and better connectivity for all of the newer components than you will find on most CRT type. The CRT’s seem to be on the way out anyway.<O:p></O:p>

kt<O:p</O:p

[gmarsden]

While DLPs have lots of advantages, make sure you consider the following.

A. They have a cooling fan and rotating color wheel. Both create noise and may be
distracting in a very quiet room.
B. Some people see color rainbows on certain scenes, although the newer faster color
wheels are supposed to be better.
C. If you sit too close, the screen door effect (SDE) can be distracting. This is true of all
fixed pixel displays.
D. Depending on usage, the light bulb will need to be replaced every few years, and they
cost a few hundred dollers.

The following link has good info on TV choices today
http://www.displaymate.com/shootout.html

Greg

[johann]

I second the votes for B&W and PSB. If I had had more money at the time and wasn't getting my PSB's at cost I would have definatly nabbed some nautolis 805s from B&W.
Sunfire's are a blast for a sub.
I ended up with a maratz for a reciever. Still makes me grin.

Best as a relative term. All the foolish home theatre nuts that helped me out with my sytsem have since abadoned all their gear and are now going back to old transitors and vacuum tube type deals, so yah best can definatly be relative.

[willywhit]

Guys, thanks alot for all the info. Keep 'em coming.

[Allee]

Have to agree with a lot of the stuff that Boarderboy and Jason say. When the ex and I bought our system we spent weeks dragging around shops (hi-fi shops, not Best Buy and Costco) until we finally found a great system we liked. And yes, $$$ isn't the be-all and end-all. I personally couldn't tell the difference between $2500 speakers and $8000 speakers, and most people can't. It's all in how it sounds to you, and you'll know after you hear a few systems what you like and what you don't. And don't be afraid to make these guys work, switching amps and things ... that's what they're there for.

I inherited the system, KEF speakers, Denon receiver, and now it has a Philips DVD player and multi CD on it (replacing the single CD and video). It's over 10 years old, and every time I turn it on and crank it, I'm blown away by how good it sounds. Choose wisely, and be happy. If you have to, spend the extra (we planned $4500 and went to nearly $7000 - ouch, but sooo worth it). I'm not saying that you have to spend that sort of money, but if you're going to do it, at least spend a bit of time, before you spend the dosh!

[~tb]

alright. . . I work for bose, and wont touch the audio conversation with a 10' pole. Its a great company, keeps a roof over my head, and a board under my feet. What more can I ask for! They also have a great class for employees on critical listening that is quite difficult to pass. I sat in on a class or two, but havent taken it yet. Really opens up your eyes as to what to listen for in an "audio system" and to and how to listen.

But anyhow. . .as for TV's . . . I just recently got my 46" samsung DLP and love the thing. Great picture. . . and no burn in. . . And the screen door effect is not unique to DLP's. ANY digital TV that you sit too close to will look like crap. There is only some much information in a HDTV signal, spreading it out over a screen that is too large for the viewing distance will have a negative impact. My 46" is debatably large for my viewing distance.

All the different HDTV's have their strengths and weaknesses. Choose wisely for what you wish to accomplish in your space. Best picture though . . . The sony wega tube . . . phenominal . . . but heavy and big.

Gotta give samsung customer service props though. . . light engine came with a small issue that I didnt like (ghosting on high contrast lines). . . service was out the next day, replaced the light engine with a newer generation light engine. . . and left me the bulb out of the one they took out.

back to some waterskiing!
hope all are having a great off season!

-Todd

[willywhit]

I also hear that Bose has some great deals for family and "friends". Maybe we can work some kitesurfing lessons for a deep discount.I'm not looking for state of the art, just decent surround sound. Saw a good deal at Bestbuy for a Yamaha system, but I'd rather rock Bose.Come to Hyannis for a wakeboard session and we can discuss. Where are you waterskiing ? Run any cones lately with JG ?

[mikemcse]

Still debating if I should go to Plasma or DLP? The new DLP sets are looking pretty sweet and the price seems to be coming down. I do like CRT but they seem like they are way heavier than DLP? I hear the pros and cons of DLP vs. Plasma but still cant make up my mind. I Think I have the sound system pretty much sorted out. I have a HK AVR 235 and monitor audio B6 speakers with B1 rears. I am also looking for a new sub. Any suggestions out there? They have a good deal on a 10" klipsch at costco for 199$ not sure if it is any good. Thanks

[johann]

Love the "Carver" stuff:
http://www.sunfire.com/SuperJrPR.htm
I have the 11" version of this one and couldn't be happier.
At once point a friend and I hooked them up in stereo. That was an interesting party :-)

[~tb]

Mike,
the braking point for me was the fact that I still watch approximately 50% of my viewing in 4 by 3 format which means, shadowboxes on the side of my screen. In the plasma, this will burn in after some time and cause your 16 by 9 material to not look good. One of my friends has a plasma that really shows this behavior, and he watches only about 25% 4 by 3. If this is truly a home theatre setup where you are going to be watching greater than 90% of the material in 16 by 9, then I would probably go for the plasma. Any more than 10% in 4 by 3, go for the dlp (or even a projector if the room is dark enough).

Just my 2 cents. . .

Oh, and I believe willy asked if the DLP is that much better than a rear projection HDTV. . . well . . . as always it depends. The off angle viewing of the DLP is FAR superior to the traditional rear projection unit but from front on, is only a little better in my opinion. I have only looked at a couple HDTV rear projectors, as in my room the viewing angle of the DLP was a must!

-Todd

[willywhit]

"I have only looked at a couple HDTV rear projectors"-~tb The wife found a "great" deal on the display model Zenith E44W46LCD and then I just read:http://www.tv-forums.com/forum/TV_Equipment_C4/Projection_TV_Forum_F24/Zenith_E44W46LCD_PROBLEMS_P12819/ "I've had the Zenith for about seven months now, and like the last two posters in the original thread, am having a problem with a blue line across the bottom of my screen. Now, after reading this board, I'm being made aware that this is a $1700 problem. I am still within the warranty, however that dosent make me feel much better." The service plan is $400 for 4 years on a $1,200 TV LG makes Zenith evidently.

[k_t]

"I have only looked at a couple HDTV rear projectors"-~tb The wife found a "great" deal on the display model Zenith E44W46LCD and then I just read:http://www.tv-forums.com/forum/TV_Equipment_C4/Projection_TV_Forum_F24/Zenith_E44W46LCD_PROBLEMS_P12819/ "I've had the Zenith for about seven months now, and like the last two posters in the original thread, am having a problem with a blue line across the bottom of my screen. Now, after reading this board, I'm being made aware that this is a $1700 problem. I am still within the warranty, however that dosent make me feel much better." The service plan is $400 for 4 years on a $1,200 TV LG makes Zenith evidently.

Food for thought……………………..

Not all DLP TV’s are created equal. Even though all of the chips in the DLP displays are made by Texas Instruments not all of the manufactures use the TI light engine in their displays. TI produces a good light engine but some of the ‘higher end’ manufacturers make their own light engine to improve performance (brightness, contrast, color, hue, motion correction, and so on) at a higher cost to the consumer who wants a better quality picture and some have created their own light engine to produce a less expensive display for those who have different budget constraints. That said I think that Samsung has (at least in my opinion) some great DLP for the $$ spent where say a company like Toshiba in their Cinema Series may have the edge on the overall viewing experience.<O:p</O:p

Not all Plasma panels are created equal either. As far as the ‘not lasting very long’ myth, a well produced plasma should last about 20+ years when used in the same way that a normal family would watch TV. For plasma, Panasonic may be the best bang for the $$ out there right now and Fujitsu is one in the high end category.

DLP = no burn in
Plasma and CRT = possible burn in when not “used properly”

kt<O:p</O:p

[willywhit]

So I come home from 4 days on the Cape and my "very determined" wife bought the Zenith E44W46LCD.It actually looks OK in non HD.Now to find a surround sound system and hook up the HDTV.

[Pat Donnelly]

Here is the latest offering and I am told this is an awesome unit. Our local dealer received four of them last week and they sold within five days.

Suggested retail $1,999


http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KDFE42A10

[Ghostrider]

Hey...since this seems to be a hot topic, I could use a little home theater advice myself.

Heres whats up...My dad moved into a house that had a large red barn in excellent condition on the property. While moving, we realized we had a surplus of medium to high end electronics sitting around. maybe not high end but definately high power audio. Heres what I did...I turned the loft of the barn into my personal movie theater. Pretty much doing high end on a budget. Try not to cringe when you hear what is being done, but it sure is fun. For video, a multimedia projector...yea I know its not exactly high end, but its being projected onto a 18'x18' painters drop cloth stretched super tight. Clearly quantity over quality there.

For audio though, this is where we make the impression. Up front is a retro pair of Klipsch loudspeakers. 12" subs, big mid and big horn tweeters. For center is 2 jbl 6x9's and a home theater center channel..the model numbers excape me but the 2 6x9's were to add some mid to the overpowering tweetyness. In back is 2 Mirage bookshelf speakers. Meant to be up front but the scale of the system made them better fit as rears.

Powering all this is the expensive part..that was a new high power denon that allowed to tune for the wierd mix match of speakers and to give the klipsch's enough power to play.

Now for the part I need help on. In my basement right now is sitting a JBL Pro 4645b (http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/4645b.pdf).
Thats 18" of THX Professional Thump. I aquired it through a series of people moving in and out of dorm rooms and not willing to carry the 140lbs down the stairs. By the time it was my turn to aquire the bad boy, I traded a starving college student a pair of Smith sliders and $50 for it :D

Now for the question: I need an amp to power that thing cuz the power from the denon is not gonna fly. Pretty much bang for the buck here...quality is second. Any thoughts on external high power mono amps?

[John Gilmour]

Whit-


Don't buy anything without me.

There are many trade offs - the biggest issue with silly little cube speakers is dynamic compression. Also you have difficulty getting great delineated bass with any driver under 7 inches. Drop to 5.25 inches and you really suffer. Go over 10 inches and you are back to "one note mid bass" but good low bass.

So you have to go to a reallly unusual design. In your price point.

Give me a buzz.

It will run you about $500 which will include a sub, surround sound processor with built in eq, 4 presets, and 5 speakers and amplifiers. Normally runs about $1500

It is the ONLY complete HT system I can say is worth listening to that costs less than $5000. But- you have to set it up properly- and I can show you how to do that.
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[skategoat]

After recently upgrading my home theatre, I can throw in a few lessons that I've learned.

- my expensive subwoofer (Monitor Audio) has the annoying habit of going into a sleep mode when not active then suddenly popping to life when the low frequencies kick in. There's an audible pop as it does this. Watch for this.

- my Samsung DLP TV has the dreaded video lag problem. That is, when you pump the sound through the AV receiver, the video lags a microsecond behind the sound. My receiver has a time delay feature but I can't get it dialed in. I read that this is a problem for some DLP chips. There is a processing delay in the video. The TV is going back as soon as I figure out what else to buy.

- HDTV is a disappointment. The only thing that gives you that eye-popping visual clarity that you see in the showroom is the NFL broadcasts. Most other sources look a little bit better than SD and that's it. Golf on ABC this weekend absolutely sucked.

- TIVO is an absolute must. It will change the way you view TV. For instance, I start watching my sports broadcasts about 45 minutes into the actual start time. I then ffw through the commercials and other delays and by end of the game, I am caught up and watching live. I can watch a hockey game in a little over 1 hour this way.

- the best part about home theatre is shopping for the components.

[willywhit]

JG, Thanks for resurrecting this thread. Since getting the new TV, the audio/surround sound is still a work in progress. My receiver (Sony STR-AV1020 ) has developed a low level buzz and I think it's time to scrap it. I've been checking out http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/index.php and have learned a bit. I've got all the high end cabling for speakers and components ready to go.Winter is coming and alot more time indoors. I'll give you a buzz............... Nigel: "You see, most blokes will be playing at 10. You’re on 10, all the way up, all the way up...Where can you go from there? Nowhere. What we do, is if we need that extra push over the cliff...Eleven. One louder." DiBergi: "Why don’t you just make 10 louder and make 10 be the top number, and make that a little louder?" Nigel (after taking a moment to let this sink in): "These go to 11."

[willywhit]

Whit-


Don't buy anything without me.

There are many trade offs - the biggest issue with silly little cube speakers is dynamic compression. Also you have difficulty getting great delineated bass with any driver under 7 inches. Drop to 5.25 inches and you really suffer. Go over 10 inches and you are back to "one note mid bass" but good low bass.

So you have to go to a reallly unusual design. In your price point.

Give me a buzz.

It will run you about $500 which will include a sub, surround sound processor with built in eq, 4 presets, and 5 speakers and amplifiers. Normally runs about $1500

It is the ONLY complete HT system I can say is worth listening to that costs less than $5000. But- you have to set it up properly- and I can show you how to do that.
Anyone catch "Airtime" on INHD ?Kitesurfing BVI with Sir Richard Branson and Martin Vari et al. Ruben Lenten at the Gorge too. great stuff and it's on again tonight at 8. must see tv http://www.inhd.com/product.jsp?prodId=37598&mp=cb2 I'm still looking for the 5.1 audio set up.The 2.1 stereo just ain't cutting it. Gotta love the Red Sox games in HD, esp when they're beating those damn Yankees~ :eplus2: :biggthump

[Enzo]

I saw it. I'm not even into kitesurfing, but it was still cool to watch. In the winter they had quite a bit of snowboarding (1/2 pipe, slopestyle, etc) on Airtime. The Sox games are ridiculous on HD. I actually had a die-hard yankee fan over last week (yes, I actually let him in my house) and he got totally sucked into watching a Sox vs Orioles game b/c of the amazing HD picture quality. Recently I've been watching a lot of the crazy nature shows on HDDSC and the travel shows on HDNet/INHD. The scenery is mind blowing!

[John Gilmour]

After recently upgrading my home theatre, I can throw in a few lessons that I've learned.

- my expensive subwoofer (Monitor Audio) has the annoying habit of going into a sleep mode when not active then suddenly popping to life when the low frequencies kick in. There's an audible pop as it does this. Watch for this.

- my Samsung DLP TV has the dreaded video lag problem. That is, when you pump the sound through the AV receiver, the video lags a microsecond behind the sound. My receiver has a time delay feature but I can't get it dialed in. I read that this is a problem for some DLP chips. There is a processing delay in the video. The TV is going back as soon as I figure out what else to buy.

- HDTV is a disappointment. The only thing that gives you that eye-popping visual clarity that you see in the showroom is the NFL broadcasts. Most other sources look a little bit better than SD and that's it. Golf on ABC this weekend absolutely sucked.

- TIVO is an absolute must. It will change the way you view TV. For instance, I start watching my sports broadcasts about 45 minutes into the actual start time. I then ffw through the commercials and other delays and by end of the game, I am caught up and watching live. I can watch a hockey game in a little over 1 hour this way.

- the best part about home theatre is shopping for the components.

So all I do all day long is set up HT and Audio systems. So when I'm home what do I do?...I tweak my own system once in a while.

Yesterday I set up the most amazing sound system in a Porsche 911 convertible. I like tuning the cars the best- it is a far bigger challenge andwhen you nail it....it is a revelation.

Your Monitor audio subwoofer is set to "signal sensing" so when it hears no low frequency for a while...it shuts off- and then suddenly...turns on late when sub noise comes in. That s okay for most movies with continuous noise in the sound track...and for most movies the 20th century fox or MGM start or THX start will activate the sub for the start of the movie.

You may have a switch on the back of your sub that leaves it "on" constantly...use that. The current draw on a subwoofer amplier can be minimal...particularly if like many of todays subs...it is a digitally amplified class d sub. They are about 90% more efficient than a regular class AB amplifer (your typical amp) Tube amplifers (are very power hungry at idle and use the same amount of power virtually at idle than when in use. The other issue could be that gain (volume level)that you are listening at is too low so your sub is cutting in and out at low levels of listening...say if you have kids sleeping.

Your Samsung has a Motion artifacts reducer. It's default is likely the on position from the factory. It adds a delay to the sound but the amplifer in your TV has an internal buffer to make sure what comes out of the attached speakers is in synch.

BUT...being that the samsung is a budget product...they neglected to put the same time delay buffer circuit for time delay switchable in the external audio outputs so whe you run the sound out of your TV the video lags.

So you can switch off that video artifacts reducer.... and you get a worse picture but synched sound. Or you can use the speakers with your TV abysmal.... Or you can buy "Z-Couplers" which drop down the current level out of your speaker outputs to line level and then run it through your processor...it will now be in synch but you just ran a clean digital signal througha crappy TV d/a converter and mixed it to stereo and now you would have to remix to dolby digital which won't sound as good as 5.1.

That all applies for 480 resolution where your artifacts reduction kicks in. if you run component cables and a 1080I signal you won't ahve these issues because 1080 signals won't go through any artifacts reduction circuitry (doesn't need it).

What a pain in the butt to have to switch cables to ge the sound to synch...but they didn't have to look at your face once they got your money and handed you the box. Sure bang and Olufsen doesn't ahve those issues..but it is way expensive.

As if that isn't enough...some cable companies do not do a good job with audio synching...and nothing can fix that- and you can call all you like...

Don't buy Tivo...rent a bundled DVR cable box. You want HDTV in your recorded stuff right???

Of course in the stuff I sell...we don't have these isssues- some crazy Danish tweakers work it all out. in fact our TV processor now works in every single country regardless of whether it is NTSC, PAL, SEACAM or whatever format...so you don't have to sell your plasma each time you move to a country with a different broadcasting format. And our processor is software upgradeable and supported for over decade..and the plasmas are rated for 20 years to their 1/2 brightness..and the plasmas are calibrated correctly out of the box...and so forth...but doing it right comes at a high price. we have some crazy 80th anniversary price reduction (20-26%) until the 15th of this month..but after that we get very expensive again. The discount goes away, and the processor skyrockets in price and everything else goes up July1st to price us out of the realm of everyone but the top 5%er's.

So while I'm at Bang and Olufsen I think we should put together some killer HD footage and I'll have a party here using our a 60K 65" 6000 watt system.
________
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[willywhit]

JG said :"So while I'm at Bang and Olufsen I think we should put together some killer HD footage and I'll have a party here using our a 60K 65" 6000 watt system"
If you boston boys get a chance, stop in to B&O and check out the system JG's talkin' bout, it's sick !
With all this rain I finally set up my XBox 360 that's been dormant due to lack of a game,hard drive or memory stick.We rented "Burnout Revenge" and the whole thing is like crack tv,I can't put down the joystick. Prob should've spent the $300 on a 5.1 surround system but that's not far off.
JG, familiar with Spearit Sound? http://www.northamptonaudio.com/specials.htm
they've got some goodies for what seems like good deals.

[Jack Michaud]

The TV is going back as soon as I figure out what else to buy.

I'll just say that I'm very pleased with my new 32" Sony Bravia XBR LCD TV. The salesman said that LCD is currently the longest-lived technology available. I think for 40" and below it's the way to go. I would have gotten the regular Bravia, but I recently landed a new job so I splurged for the XBR. It's got an HD tuner and when I plugged it in to our basic cable, much to my pleasant surprise it picked up 4 HD channels! (ABC, NBC, FOX, PBS) There's more HD programming out there than I thought, it's great! Anyway, the picture is superb and eye-popping with any digital signal (DVD, HD channels) and it's about as good as my old tube TV on SD analog channels. With an 8ms response time, there are absolutely no trailing ghost images on fast motion - something I was worried about. One cool feature of the TV is a USB port and a built-in slideshow player - I can take the memory card out of my digital camera, stick it in my USB card reader and plug it into the TV and play a slideshow from the card. Very cool. Also you can hook up your computer to the TV and use it as your monitor.



HDTV is a disappointment. The only thing that gives you that eye-popping visual clarity that you see in the showroom is the NFL broadcasts. Most other sources look a little bit better than SD and that's it. Golf on ABC this weekend absolutely sucked.

Gosh, I've been very impressed with what I'm seeing in HD on my new TV. I'd say the NBA playoffs are the most impressive picture I've seen so far, but the primetime shows in HD are way better than SD. And I'm loving TV in the 16:9 format. 4:3 just looks so small and cramped now! And now I'm seriously contemplating upgrading from our $12/mo "ghetto" cable package just for the summer so I can watch the Red Sox on NESN-HD!!

[Enzo]

Gosh, I've been very impressed with what I'm seeing in HD on my new TV. I'd say the NBA playoffs are the most impressive picture I've seen so far, but the primetime shows in HD are way better than SD. And I'm loving TV in the 16:9 format. 4:3 just looks so small and cramped now! And now I'm seriously contemplating upgrading from our $12/mo "ghetto" cable package just for the summer so I can watch the Red Sox on NESN-HD!!

Upgrade NOW!!! It'll put a smile on your face every time you turn that TV on. :biggthump

[patmoore]

A year and a half after buying a 52" DLP I'm still loving it! The only downside is that I've gone from 110 channels down to 10 because I refuse to watch anything that isn't in HD....

[John Gilmour]

Well, so much programming is SD and you don't want to watch SD on a large screen unless you have ED (enhanced definition) so the B&O system has line doubling and frame doubling to make SD look almost like HD...yeah I wouldn't believe it either---but I see it everyday.

So much is Mixed definition (only interviews in HD all file footage in Sd or establishing shots in SD) nowadays that you can't watch a lot of shows that are supposedly HD on a larger screen because the picture looks blurry on the SD shots.

Best thing I have yet seen on HDTV was the US Open (tennis)- amazing court side shots...and I think it was not 720p but 1080i....at least the shots of the stands.. you really felt like you were sitting in the corners of the court.

If you get LCD don't go bigger than 40" because you will start to notice trails. Under 35 inches is ideal. Also LCDs backlighting quickly loses luminence after 3 weeks and so will be less bright than plasma. The bright side is you can replace the backlight..but who wants to do that so often. View LCDs ina slightly darkend room and they can be very nice for slower action and most movies.

The real cool thing will be the biolumenscent displays which will be very bright and quick in time..but we have a ways to go.

Our current 65" weighs 176 and requires some wall reinforcement of you have metal studs... so even if you have a 140 inch plasma.....you would need it to be light and probably thin...

The best battle ground seems to be at about 50 inches where nearly everything regardless of definition can look good on the B&O.

A lot of people compare the Pioneer Elite to the Bang and Olufsen and don't see much difference in the stores. But in the store the signal is made from a signal generator that is PERFECT and without noise or weak signal.

If you take a B&O plasma and feed it a slightly noisy weak signal...you still get a perfect picture... currently we are using a cheap 5 foot antenna in a back alley surrounded by buildings and just barely get one HD channel (the worst one for wavelength WGBH -2)...but if you look at it...even at the limit of being able to pull it in....the picture looks perfect. Despite noise and weak signal.

So the other day I installed a Pioneer Elite in the Ritz for a friend of mine. I tried to sell him on the Bang and Olufsen TV but he said he was going to save 3 grand and buy the top of the line Pioneer Elite.

So we install the TV and fire it up... and his first comment was..."Why is the picture like that??????? It looks like the low line Pioneer series- and I paid a ****load ($2900) more so I wouldn't get this (lower quality) picture."

Well the Pioneer as well as many other models don't like a signal that isn't perfect. The signal that goes into the Ritz apts. is amplified and split, amplified and split etc.. many times over...and you can bet that the Ritz does a better job with the cable than other buildings.

So in some cases you get what you pay for (1brand) and in other cases....you don't (many brands)




...but you end up living with it for the next 10 years.

BTW I don't expect anyone on bomber to buy a B&O tv..in fact you should never blow cash on a TV when you spend it on groomers or a week of heli boarding. I refuse to sell one to any customer that can ride and owns a middle of the road carving deck. At least I can be sure to get your priorities in order.
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