"skier's" mountain

[skatha]

I had an online "conversation" with another snowboarder about various resorts-he dismissed a mountain that I frequent as a "skier's" mountain/resort. I was miffed-mainly because, historically, every resort in the country didn't allow snowboarding at one time, save Tamarack in Idaho(they just opened)-so, technically, everybody started out as a "skiier's" mountain. Of course, I'm also a flatlander and may not know "sh*t"
Please enlighten me if I need it...
Just what is a "skiier's" mountain...
And what constitutes a "rider's" mountain...

[Fleaman]

A skiers mountain is one that sucks!
It has one groomer that breaks down alot and the operator is too stoned to drive.

The chairs also have cushions on the seats to pamper their lazy asses.

They also have a taco bell or a McDonalds in the main lodge to take all their hard earned money.

A Rider's mountain has cool people and wicked terrain. Lots of Powder and tons of Groomed Cord. Not to mention hot chicks!

Which is pretty much every mountain other than the select few that wish to shun us boarders.(Fudge them!)(sp?)

[D-Sub]

I wouldnt mind ridin Alta, thats for sure.

Ive always thought of places that let bumps form everywhere as skier's hills. other than that...if its good terrain, well?

[nekdut]

Flats, cattracks and more bumps than groomers.

That defines a skiier's mountain in my book. Heavenly in Tahoe fits that definition to me.

[CarvCanada]

Flats, narrow steep trails with random trees everywhere, bumped up everywhere.

[Gecko]

Originally posted by CarvCanada
Flats, narrow steep trails with random trees everywhere, bumped up everywhere.

this has always been my definition

[Jim Callen]

I dunno, I love "skier" hills. Ajax is one of them, and it's insane on powder days. It has some awesome bump runs that just get better with some pow.

[Coldrider]

I wonder how many other areas have always welcomed riders?

[skatha]

Originally posted by nekdut
Flats, cattracks and more bumps than groomers.

That defines a skiier's mountain in my book. Heavenly in Tahoe fits that definition to me.

Interesting-this guy loves The Canyons-and, although I didn't get to the old Park City West side because of my sore ankle-the condo development side was chock full of flats and cattracks-including 1 with rock face on one side, aspens down the hill on the other side and a deep rut in the middle.

My least favorite part of Heavenly is the very flat skyline trail to get to the Nevada side from ridge run. Other than that, I've never been on a trail at Heavenly I didn't like, but I'm definitely a blue groomer cruiser

[skatha]

Originally posted by CarvCanada
Flats, narrow steep trails with random trees everywhere, bumped up everywhere.

I can see the bumps being a problem-this particular resort I was referring to is in Colorado so there is alot of bumps-but the entire trail maps is not covered with bump runs and not all blacks are bump runs

[Hopscotch]

Why don't we start an only "riders" mountain? Are there any?

[Bordy]

Years ago several of us opened Snows Mtn. in Waterville NH it was the first snow board only area, and we littered it with jumps, rails and even a race course open to every one. It was based on what we thought was nirvana. It was however still operated by a larger parent compant that also opertated Waterville Valley we were depentand on naturaual snow due to lack of snowmaking and dispite a slow start due low snow fall we had a few weeks of sick riding with out a skier in site! Then during a busy Pres. Week end rush the General manager of Waterville Valley, Tom Day Opened snows mtn to Skiers to offset the crouds at Waterville Valley.
It was only a matter of hours before several skiers were injured, mostly because at the time terrain parks were only open to snowboarders and skiers were not educated enough to understand the true size of the jumps. or at least thats what we all tried to tell ourselves when one of the skiers suied. Even though we had presented the Mtn. lay out to our insurance carrier and had all of the state and insurance required sighnage and clearly marked maps!

Snows Mtn was declared a wash only operating in till the snow melted. For a lot of local riders Snows Mtn was the best thing that could have happened and pushed riders in a way un seen at the time with huge top to bottom features.
Snows Mtn was also operating when snowboarding first began in New England and had one of the first half pipes in the state many of us hoped to keep the rider revelution on track at the time by providing terrain on par with the abilitys of the local hucksters at a hill with a bit of history.
I do not think Snows Mtn has operated since the year it was snowboard only. After Pres. weekend Snows went rider only again. Altough there were snowboard injuries at Snows there was never a law suit filed by a rider alltough in one short weekend enough were filed by skiers to prevent the reopening of Snows the following season. It still upsets me to think about it.
I once had a guy in a bar tell me there was a article in a ski magazine about Snows, I have never seen the article but if any on has ,please post a link. thanks.

[Jack Michaud]

I vaguely remember reading coverage of Snow's Mtn in some publication. Didn't know you had anything to do with it, Bordy, that's cool. What year did it operate?

Someone should do a piece on Snow's for www.nelsap.org

[Bordy]

Jack I think it was 94-95 it could have been 95-96 though?

Yep Matt Gormley, Andy Kinney, Arvid Swanson, and myself made Snows happen we had tons of help from all tho VW and Loon locals it was sweet!

[Gecko]

in the Big Bear area that was skier discouraged it was near Running Springs and wasn't Snow Valley but I cannt remember the name for the life of me...I remember that it was set up a lot like what bordy describes at Snows Mt

[wavechaser]

I always wondered what happened to that little place across from Waterville...when I was a kid (don't ask) it was part of Waterville and I remember skiing there with my Dad.

Myself, being a Sugarbush local, I have dreams of buying out Mad River and making it "riders only"...and sending those snobs packing!

[skatha]

I had a dream of buying Taos and opening it up to riders, but now, I could care less....think that at this time, the term "skier's mountain" applies more to a particular opinion a particular person has about a hill. I've had riders call Heavenly a "skier's" resort because of some flat places and I have had riders call Winterpark a "skier's" resort because they have bumps, but when you ask skiers at those resorts what they think, they'll tell me that since 60% of the people on the hill are snowboarders, they-the skiiers-call Heavenly and WP-very rider friendly mountains. They fact remains-all the resorts currently operating in this country started out as resorts for skiing

[Slim]

Originally posted by skatha
...since 60% of the people on the hill are snowboarders, they-the skiiers-call Heavenly and WP-very rider friendly mountains. 60%? Even on a big snowboarding day, I think this figure is high. 2004/2005 industry figures (http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/2005/nc-05-prelim-kottke.asp) peg snowboarding at about 27.8% of visits to the slopes, with some degree of regional variance.

<img src="http://tinypic.com/5bdxfm" alt="">

I do agree with you that the term 'skiers mountain' is subjective, with the exception of the areas that continue to prohibit snowboarding altogether (Taos, Alta, Mad River Glen, and Deer Valley).

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Gecko
in the Big Bear area that was skier discouraged it was near Running Springs and wasn't Snow Valley but I cannt remember the name for the life of me...I remember that it was set up a lot like what bordy describes at Snows Mt

Big Air Green Valley

[NateW]

A "skier's mountain" is one where most of the runs have one or more lengthy flat sections. Woe unto the snowboarder who enters a flat without first building up enough speed to make it across.

To anyone with poles (read as: skiers), that sort of thing is a non-issue.

[Ninjette]

skiers mountain or not... I loathe the flat! it is evil and I have taken my worst falls on it... one so bad that it was a double bounce on my butt that my friend actually heard and winced with pain as he cruised by on his teles and stopped to look down at me to make sure I was ok.

Anyway I am a fan of WP except for a few nasty flat areas. There is one section off of summit express on the way to timberline that can be notorious if you do not have enough speed...... skiers with poles are your friends at that time. On a particular day I had fallen victim to the lack of momentum... out of nowhere a snowboarder much bigger than myself and with a lot of speed appeared... just put his arms around my waist scooped me up and carried me along. He never said a word... nothing stupid, lude or obnoxious... he was just this cool guy. When he saw that I was going okay on my own, he let go, smiled, waved and went on his way... again without ever saying a word. He made my day!!!

I guess sometimes the flat does have its perks?:D

[wavechaser]

Either you don't weigh much or that was a BIG DUDE!

Wax, wax, wax to make it thru the flat, flat, flat! I can't tell you how many of my friends don't bother waxing/tuning, then trudge and swear while I'm waiting for them at the other end of the flat-track...make it a goal to see how many poling skiers you can pass on the flats because your glide is sooooooo gooooood - and if the going gets slow then GET LOW!

[bobdea]

flat still sucks
and if you wax allot you are bound to have the wrong wax someday

[wavechaser]

NEVAH!

[skatha]

Originally posted by Slim
60%? Even on a big snowboarding day, I think this figure is high. 2004/2005 industry figures (http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/2005/nc-05-prelim-kottke.asp) peg snowboarding at about 27.8% of visits to the slopes, with some degree of regional variance.

<img src="http://tinypic.com/5bdxfm" alt="">

I do agree with you that the term 'skiers mountain' is subjective, with the exception of the areas that continue to prohibit snowboarding altogether (Taos, Alta, Mad River Glen, and Deer Valley).

That may be an industry figure-I got my figure from the ski instructor my husband took a lesson from at Heavenly last year...

[skatha]

Originally posted by Ninjette
skiers mountain or not... I loathe the flat! it is evil and I have taken my worst falls on it... one so bad that it was a double bounce on my butt that my friend actually heard and winced with pain as he cruised by on his teles and stopped to look down at me to make sure I was ok.

Anyway I am a fan of WP except for a few nasty flat areas. There is one section off of summit express on the way to timberline that can be notorious if you do not have enough speed...... skiers with poles are your friends at that time. On a particular day I had fallen victim to the lack of momentum... out of nowhere a snowboarder much bigger than myself and with a lot of speed appeared... just put his arms around my waist scooped me up and carried me along. He never said a word... nothing stupid, lude or obnoxious... he was just this cool guy. When he saw that I was going okay on my own, he let go, smiled, waved and went on his way... again without ever saying a word. He made my day!!!

I guess sometimes the flat does have its perks?:D

I agree about the WP flats-I got out on Vasquez ridge last year, mainly because my skiing sister said it was "underutilized"-those greens at the base are horizontal!!!!
The worse I've seen so far is the Canyons near the condo developments-overpasses and underpasses with the roads...overpasses are humped up and I had a hard time finding the huevos to shoot thru the underpasses not knowing how icy things were. And the Canyons are supposedly a " riders' hill"!