old boards still ride well

[philfell]

http://www.studioonline.com/playvideos.asp?crypt=8E9BD04266AC5A28

Above is a link to Billy and I linking laid out turns on a '92 Burton PJ 7. This was taken today along with some other video that we took on various other equipment. In this clip I'm actually in '92 MegaFlexs as well. Sorry the quality is bad if someone can tell me how to post a higher quailty I would.

The reason for this is I was told that the equipment in the early '90's wasn't good enough to link laid out turns you only could lay out one at a time. Granted the equipment now is better, but you still can do it on old stuff.

[kamran]

great,
Please educate me;

These are 'linked, laid out turns' ?

[dragon fly jones]

Body smeared across the snow, to start direction change return to center (upright), start turn, body smear, repeat as needed.

Nice eh? I bet you could do it to Kamran. Try it you just might like it. Come on, you KNOW you wanna, just do it once, we'll get you started, this one time, just don't do it in bumps.

[gdboytyler]

Sorry, I wouldn't call those linked, laid out turns. Couple here and there were laid out, but they were not one after the other.

I suggest you get on your regular equipment, hit a steeper run and post another video.

Seriously, comparing those laid out turns to the ones on the EC website, is like comparing my bottom turn to Kelly Slater's bottom turn.:p

[Zone]

The 10+ year old Wild Duck Knifer GS (shaped by the famous Jacques Rillet) still carves very well!!:) ::eek:

[D-Sub]

jesus. here comes another stupid ****ing argument

looks like you guys were having fun

hate to say it, but not ONE video Ive ever seen of anyone doin "EC" looks anywhere near as good as the actual EC guys. Not even the bay area dudes who get all stinky about it:)

but everyone looks like theyre havin fun. lots of it

[Steve Dold]

Phil. I think the riding in the video is great, makes me want to skip work and head to the hill next week.

[Zone]

D-Sub, relax, isn't it all about having fun anyway?
In the same way, I've never seen any home made porn that looks as good as the pro ... but who's having more fun doing it?:p :p

[D-Sub]

nah, Im relaxed. honest. Did you miss the argument in the "can you ride like this" thread?

we're in agreement about the "havin fun" thing without question! just...some people get pretty huffy about "who can EC" or not and the vids they post dont look anything like the holy grail either.

honest to god it almost seems like only those two guys can do it!

anyway, all I meant is that this thread is gonna turn into another round of back and forth

[Kirk]

Just an observation here but I think this illustration needs to be kept in context.


Seriously, comparing those laid out turns to the ones on the EC website, is like comparing my bottom turn to Kelly Slater's bottom turn.

I honestly don't think that's what these guys were trying to accomplish here - comparing their "style" to the EC guys. I think we need to look again at Phil's original remarks in the thread:


The reason for this is I was told that the equipment in the early '90's wasn't good enough to link laid out turns you only could lay out one at a time. Granted the equipment now is better, but you still can do it on old stuff.

No question that the EC guys have their craft down - it's what they do ALL THE TIME, and they do it VERY WELL. Phil and Billy jumped on some old gear and illustrated that, with the right inputs, linked layed-out turns are possible. Short clip, but DID see some linked layed-out turns here. I think it also illustrates that it was possible that the rippin' riders of yesteryear were able to accomplish similar things. Has this particular approach to the carved turn evolved? You bet. And you would expect it to. This was acknowledged by Phil Fell in the original thread:


no one is saying that P&J aren't great snowboarder with a very fluid style that is pleasent to watch. And I certainly hope they look more graceful than a guy in '89, that's called progression. I would certainly hope in 16 years the level of riding has increased and people know can ride harder, faster, and more controled than those of the past.

Look, guys like Bordy and Phil (and MANY of you out there!) spend a great deal of time on snow freecarving as well as training in SL and GS - using technique and inputs that are quite a bit different than what you will see from the EC folks. It's all carving, it's all fun - just different approaches to make a turn. Geez, makes me kinda wish I hadn't sold my old PJ :rolleyes:
I say try it all and make your own conclusions. This discussion has actually forced me to be a bit more open-minded about the variety within the hardbooting world. Sorry, that was a LONG freakin' post :o Get out and enjoy folks!

[philfell]

Thanks Kirk!

We weren't trying to one up the riding of the EC guys with this clip, or any for that matter. I simply wanted to show you could link laid out turns on old boards, which I was told was impossible.

To the guy that couldn't find any turns that were laid out and linked, are you sure you saw the clip. I know the quality is poor but give me a break!! There are plenty of turns that go from a heelside turn to a toe side turn back to a heelside turn all with body parts touching the snow. Also look at the snow, it's sunny and fourty degrees. Again I would certainly hope that the true EC guys would have it down better than me riding a board AND boots from 13 years ago. I'm also quite sure that they took longer than two runs to get their video content.

[Bordy]

Kirk nailed it.... It may be because he has made turn with Phil and I and Knows that is not what we consider a Modern Linked Layed out turns. I think Phil and I did a great job trying to ride that PJ with the same technique as any one had in the early 90's alltough I had Indys on and not megaflexes like Phil the turns on video were my first on that board in over 12 years. (I had Intec Phil, in Megaflexes was nice enough to butt slide with my gear down a short mellow face so I could try the PJ also! Thanks Phil!) I Jump on that stuff cold and made it happed on film and I am just some dude in utah, imagine the stuff pros of the time could do. We rode alot more gear, on some steeper terrain using alot of different techniques on lots of snow conditions (yes chuck I even hang on eyro carving through some bumpy slush with Icey transition, the Kessler spends some time bouncing) and will soon have it up and running at hardbooer.com......

[Tim Tuthill]

Phil: Outstanding!! Just think of how many guys were riding alpine in the mid 80'S and on, who were trying to do carved turns?? I don't think there were many. I will check with Frank Morales and Terry English. I watched them when I was still skiing. Lets see, That was 92?? I think. Old age don't you know??

[Jack Michaud]

I've got one, vintage 1991, with bindings. Goofy model. very good condition. I'll open the floor at US$500.
:D

[Bordy]

While it may not be the Checker Pig G6 I rode at SES, that PJ 7 sure is out dated. I can hardly believe I ever rode one of those things at speed let alone in a GS course. It felt like an Entry level free ride board, which, I am sure is why so many people learned to rip on them so quickly back in the day. I did not ride the 7 in till the first year of the 3 hole pattern but I had the 5 in 92!

Checker Pig G6 priceless

[gdboytyler]

You can be a World Cup competitor, but if you're on the wrong equipment, this is what your Extremecarving will look like:

[B]http://www.studioonline.com/playvideos.asp?crypt=8E9BD04266AC5A28

But if you buy my Swoard for $1000 US + shipping, then this is what your Extremecarving will look like and you won't need World Cup caliber skills:

http://www.extremecarving.com/movies/movies.html

[kamran]

gdboytyler,

Quit your dayjob and get into the advertisement world. There is a bright future there waiting for you.
Your point is well taken ;)

[Vahur]

Originally posted by philfell

The reason for this is I was told that the equipment in the early '90's wasn't good enough to link laid out turns you only could lay out one at a time. Granted the equipment now is better, but you still can do it on old stuff.
OK, point proven. But as it seems to be so debatable and important point, I'd like to know, who has told, that
the equipment in the early '90's wasn't good enough to link laid out turns you only could lay out one at a time
I searched extremecarving.com and found somewhat relevant topic in page
Why this site (http://www.extremecarving.com/philo/why.html) :

Doing only one laid turn, as it was already done at the end of the eighties, is accessible to everyone. But getting up at the end of the curve and linking with the next laid turns requires a top technique from the rider and the gear.
In equipment page (http://www.extremecarving.com/tech/mat.html) it is said:
Let it be clear! It isn't possible to do extreme carving efficiently with all equipment! Try to forget the freestyle and freeride boards, as well as the soft boots!

We don't pretend that it is impossible to lay down a turn with this kind of equipment, but the needed efforts are enormous and the riding speeds are miserable.
So this "impossible with old gear" statement seems to come from somewhere else than EC site. I have no doubt, that both you are top riders and can link laid turns on such gear, but for most of recreational riders it's probably beyond limits and thus "impossible"

[Phil]

Vahur,

They were answering the debate in this thread:

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5760

[philfell]

A quote from Nils: "The development of the EC technique took J&P 12+ years since the early 90's, and they basically trained and learned it all by themselves in that remote valley of Zinal, away from crowds, and well they are not claiming they invented something, only that they developped the LINKED LAID turns... and this, even Jean Nerva told me he never saw it before like this, (he told me the boards/boots/bindings and the riding level of his times could not allow it!)"

[kamran]

when he says :
even Jean Nerva told me he never saw it before like this

The emphasize could have been on "like this" as the extreme carving guys do it. This should not be taken out of context.

I believe everybody agrees that we are yet to see others do it as smooth, elegant and as "extreme" laid out linked turns as the extreme carving guys do.