Don't hate me

[gawdzira]

I tivo'd some generic show on snowsports on OLN this weekend. I caught about 7.45 minutes of the show (I have a 6 month old so time is a precious commodity) and they were covering some SL ski race.

Let me first say that I have been abstinent from skiing for over 12 years now except for one short run about 10 years ago. Prior to that, yes, skiing was a problem in my life but through therapy, drug science and about 3 years of K2 Snowboards being my primary client I have been rehabilitated and no longer crave the skiis at all. Now with 2 seasons of plates behind me I thought I was free of my demons.

Then along comes OLN and their damn broadcast of the SL race. I must say that seeing those guys crank on those tiny shaped sticks looks like a blast (for someone else, of course).

Honestly, I figure that I will need to strap on skiis in 2 - 3 seasons when I am starting to send my son down the hill but I am tempted to try a taste sooner.

Don' hate me.

[JoelP]

There are a few of us here in the mecca (Aspen) that ride the rail in the mornings and then strap the lil skis on for riding the 2 rails in the afternoons.

I picked up a pair of Volkl P50 SL's Race Stock 155's and they are a hoot. I'll tell you they compliment riding the boards so well it truly is super fun. I still spend most of my time on the snowboard but the SL sticks are a blast.

I can turn those lil sticks inside my snowboard arc's. I thiink the thrill of laying my cheeks down on the snowboard outdoes the ski's but changing up the muscle groups does nothing but help in both disciplines.

hell I may even pop them on for an afternoon at the SES just to go play with the boyz....

Joel

[Allee]

I'd never skied until this weekend, I always figured that a snowboard had to be easier to learn than all them sticks and poles (wrong!!!).

But I went for my first lesson on a blue/green run under lights at Kimberley last weekend, and I had a a total blast. To the point that I might even do it again.

I can't see that I'll be retiring the board any time soon, but ...

Is that wrong?

[Jeffrey Day]

I too have been thinking 'bout the dark side! I started snowboarding before the shaped ski revolution ( skiiers should thank us snowboarders for that one! ). I was a terminal intermidiate skiier! But now, with my confidence and knowledge of being on edge, skis intriuge me! I've been thinking about demoing some Volkl 5 Star, Atomic SX7 or Salomon Equipe 10SC!

To me, holding an edge is very impressive! Wether it's one edge or two :-) In the grand scheme of things, not many people out there, skiers or snowboarders, know how to use the tools that they have straped to their feet!

Anyways, that's my two cents! Happy trails!

[Hagen]

No hate here. For now I don't go snowboarding enough to try skis on the groomers. But I already started to put skis on for some backcountry sking (was cheaper than a split board...).

And I'm also planning to put on some carving skis once my son is old enough to learn to ski (hopefully in two years...).

Hagen.

[gawdzira]

<img src="http://tinypic.com/1ie4b7">

[oldvolvosrule]

Gawdzira, let me profess my love for the shaped skis. I too, was an alpine snowboard addict from 1995-2004. Before that I was a skiing fool. I raced SL on a pr of Olin 205 and GS on a pr of 212s.

After many years on the carving board and after much talk from my brother(who also rides an alpine setup), he finally convinced me to try a pr of shaped skis. I am so stoked to be skiing again. The feeling of carving on snow skis is not quite the same adrenaline rush that it is on a alpine board setup but it is damn close.

After riding the rental shaped skis a few times last year, I decided to splurge on shaped skis this year.

I went to my local hill(Snow Summit) the other night, after three runs on the single board setup I decided to switch out for the double board setup. I was grinnin the entire night. I hooked up with a local skier and we were playing the cat and mouse game till they kicked us out of there.

Shaped skis require a different technique from the old straight ski technology. If you watch the racers they get the skis way out to the side to allow the sidecut to take its effect. After learning this technique carving on skis is addicting.

If you are thinking about trying shaped skis, make sure you do not buy them too long. I was ready to plunk cash down on a set of 190s as I still had the long, straight ski mentality in my head. After much counsel from fellow skiers and my brother I finally decided on 180s, I'm 6'2 and 190 lbs. I thought that 180s werre way too short but they are perfect.

I now usually carve in the morning on the snowboard and swap out for skis for the afternoon session. I am now starting to hit the terrain parks too, never even thought about doing that on my snowboard set up. Hope this helps.

Send me an email if you ever head up locally and I would be more than happy to ride(skis or board) with you.

[Jack Michaud]

now that is a great shot. cute kid. let me guess, ISO1600, 20D? 50mm f/1.8?

[gawdzira]

The last skiis I owned were 200cm Atomic Arcs. They wieghed about 75#s each. They were purchased in about 1985. I think the new tech might feel a bit different. My brother gave me a set up and I hope they are not too long for me. If so I may try my wifes skiis.

Jack, I wish my lense went down to 1.8. When we got our camera I went with an all around lense to cover me untill I could have enough children to sell one to cover a better lense. I get lazy and rely on the auto settings too much but almost always try and override the flash. I hate those hot spots.

Probably more like iso200, f3.5, 60

I love the abiliity to shoot 50 frames and not worry about film. That is what I did this morning as my boy was trying bananas for the first time.

I promise not to start any more threads having to do with skiing and if I do I will include photos of scantily clad people in my hot tub.

[Baka Dasai]

I am also ski-curious. I have 20 years skiing experience, but it was all in the pre shaped-ski era.

My local resort has flocks of carving skiers nailing high-speed carves on the iciest of black slopes every morning. It's impressive. I'm gonna have to try it sometime, but the problem is equipment - I'm loathe to pay exaggerated rental prices for sloppy rental gear, but I'm even more loathe to spend even more to buy it.

One thing - although I feel a natural affinity with the carving skiers here due to the obvious similarities in the way we turn, they don't seem to share that feeling of affinity. I try and chat to them on the lift and suss out their feelings towards alpine snowboarding, but they seem to have a pretty dismissive attitude towards snowboarding without exception. Sad - I'd like to see them on an alpine snowboard - they'd pick it up quick.

[oldvolvosrule]

Baka, the guy that I was rippin on snow skis with on Saturday night, I mentioned to him that I ride an alpine board also and he started asking many questions about it. He also said that if he ever wanted to try snowboarding that an alpine set up would be his first choice. I have some extra gear that he can use when he wants to try it.

I left him my ph. # and he said he would call when he heads back to Big Bear Lake, can't wait to get another hardbooter on the slopes.

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

I am currently taking a ski class ;) Hanging around with ski racers has definately pulled me towards the dark side... A carve is a carve :D

[slopetool]

Those Elan SCX's are sweet. Stiffer the better with stack plates.

[Hagen]

Right now our little man can't really complain, so we took him on a short xcountry ski trip...

[skategoat]

I rented a pair of shaped skis this weekend. First time on skis in 4 years. While I enjoyed them, especially in the bumps, everytime I hit a groomed run or fresh, untracked snow, I was wishing for a snowboard.

The problem, if you switch between skis and snowboard is that you will suffer from switch-i-tis. When you're on skis, you'll wish you were on a board and vice versa. Do you really want to lug two sets of equipment each time?

[Rusty]

I borrowed some skis from the rental shop this weekend too!!

My girlfriend is in snowboard lessons right now so I figured if I have to just putt around...I'll go skiing. I was cracking my self up, it was really a lot of fun after not being on skis for 14-15 years or so. I may have to get a pair just for screwing around.

It did make me realize how nice it is not to have to carry all that equipment (2 skis and 2 poles) with me.

[ethanpt]

funny this thread was started as I have been thinking of giving it a go again- I have been impressed watching folks carve on skis. I was thinking it might be nice to switch to skis in the afternoon as I am so wiped after a few hours of carving. Also was thinking it might be nice to do when its crowded. This weekend as mount snow I was a bit scared with all the people. The other reason is the abundance and availablity of gear and I suspect it is easier to dial in the gear? Seems like its easy to get deals on skiis. My girlfriend bought last years stuff early this season and her skis, boots and bindings cost less than my board alone. Do folks find that it's pretty easy to re-learn skiing and pick up ski carving?

[jeremiah]

You guys HAD to go here didn't you. I promised my wife I would do one day on skis this year and ski with her. (I think she's hoping I'm terrible and she has to wait for me, but that's not gonna happen.) I skied for 20 years, but also got out before the shaped ski revolution (last pair of skis were LaCroix Mach Racing 207, big old GS ski).
If I were to dabble on the dark side, I would do a demo rather than a rental setup, soooo, what would be a good ski to demo, and can anyone recommend a good shop to use near either Mt Snow or Stratton? Finally, I assume I would need to rent boots too, right? No chance of using my Head Stratos Pros?

Jeremiah
thinking I should just buy another snowboard instead

[tpalka]

If you *really* want to go to a dark side, try the K2 Sno-Cycles (http://www.k2gravitytools.com/) instead. A friend convinced me to try one last weekend in Telluride, and they were a hoot. Realistically I wouldn't spend more than a few hours on them, but between a double-black-diamond bump run and carving on the grooms they were quite a bit of fun.

I especially enjoyed the carving, of course. Putting the feet (with outrigger short skis) on the front ski, off the ground, and then trying cross-unders was a blast.

They're surprisingly fast, carve really well, and are somewhat hard to stop. Finally something faster and more dangerous than a hardbooter... :)


tom.

[SWriverstone]

AESTHETICS! AESTHETICS!

Great thread! My cry for AESTHETICS! stems from a trend I've seen across many sports---the complete rejection of aesthetics in favor of new thrills and a new style/fad.

In kayaking, people are so taken with today's 5-foot-long kayaks that they've lost sight of just how STUPID the things look. (Seriously---there is nothing aesthetically redeeming about today's whitewater boats at all---they quite literally resemble clorox bottles more than anything else.)

Ditto with "blades." I've never seen anything so comically ridiculous-looking in all my life! LOL

Tiny kayaks and tiny skis may be a blast...and they may be easy to lug around. But for all our sakes...PLEASE remember that ART has VALUE! Aesthetics are important!

The ultimate sport and ultimate gear is that which is both incredibly beautiful *and* incredibly fun. Alas---things these days are rapidly swinging to the "incredibly fun" with nobody caring what it looks like.

Which is why I love carving!!! :) It gets big points on aesthetics *and* fun!

Scott

PS - If you doubt what I say, check out this photo of kayaks:
http://shadepine.com/kayak_d-evo.jpg

if you think the modern playboat looks as good as the longer slalom boat, I'd say you need some values adjustment! <grin>

[Allee]

I love my blades. They might look silly, but they are the best thing for if you just want to switch your brain off and go play.

And I have ALWAYS wanted to try a snowbike. And one of those lie down frontwards polystyrene skeleton things - they have them for sale in the local ski shop for $59.00 and they look like a BLAST. I might have to buy one so I can race the local kids down the ridge at the back of the park.

Theye're all toys. Who cares how ya look as long as ya havin' fun.:p

[skategoat]

The skiis I tried this weekend were Volkl 724 Pro (170cm). I thought I would have fun carving but they would not hold a carve even close to what I could do with my alpine board. When I tried to get deep into a carve, they just skidded out. I gained new appreciation for my board.

The fun I had was in quick slalom runs using the terrain for unweighting. This is something I cannot do on a snowboard.

So if I crave the carve, I will stick to the snowboard. If I want to jump around the bump runs, I'll rent the skiis.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Aesthetics - that's an interesting argument, which makes the case more for snowboarding or skiing as a "michi", a path to improvement of self through persuing perfection. I've often thought of it that way because these are what I think of as "life sports", something you can work at and improve at your whole life. To me that philosophy is not compatible with using a pair of snowblades to hack your way down the hill and declaring yourself expert.

My other love is kendo, Japanese fencing, where unlike olympic fencing the goal is not to simply cut the other guy, but to do it beautifully and perfectly. It seems unrelated to snowboarding but I take a lot of the same attitude into both.

Back semi-on-topic - my skis are also old straight ones, and my wife would have a conniption fit if I gave into the tempation to buy some new ones. But I buy the Ski Canada test guide every year and the various incarnations of the Atomic Beta Ride have been calling my name for quite some time.

[Miguel]

Hi...my name's Miguel and I'm a Carvaholic.

I'm feeling like I'm at an Alchoholics Anonymous meeting!

Actually...I admit to trying teli skiing last year....but only once...and I'm feeling darned guilty about it.:( Glad that's off my chest!

[Allee]

"To me that philosophy is not compatible with using a pair of snowblades to hack your way down the hill and declaring yourself expert."

Hee hee. The only thing I'm expert on with snowblades ... is falling on my ass. But it's still fun.

:)

[Jutta]

Just loved to read this!

Unlike most of you I've never given up skiing - I just started snowboarding a few years ago (and never used anything but hard boots and an alpine board), and I'm afraid to admit I'm still a better carver on my Volants than on my Alp - even though on a groomed run it's way more fun on a board. But in the end, a carve is a carve - no matter what gear is used.

And on the "aesthetics" subject - when I originally learned to ski in Europe decades ago, the "keep-your-skis-so-close-together-that-your-boot-buckles-get-caught" style was all the rage, it was considered "elegant" - but not anymore! Styles and tastes change; we can agree or disagree, but in the end aesthetics is purely subjective...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Jutta
Styles and tastes change; we can agree or disagree, but in the end aesthetics is purely subjective...
A butt-out, straight-legged, chattering, side-slipping, boarduroy-generating, lunch-tray "turn" is always ugly.

[Jutta]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
A butt-out, straight-legged, chattering, side-slipping, boarduroy-generating, lunch-tray "turn" is always ugly.

True, bad technique is never pretty. But that wasn't my point...

[kinpa]

Yeah, I still ski some. I'M NOT ASHAMED TO ADMIT IT!!! :) Over the past 10 years, I've mostly snowboarded, but I always had a pair of skiis just in case. (Since I was teaching it was a good thing that I could teach both!) There were many days I was faced with the decision of which equipment to get on in the morning. Usually it depended on what my plans were for the day and who I was going to be with. And yes, like others, there were more than a few times that I wished I was on the other from what I chose that morning. AND YES, it's a pain to lug stuff around and even more of a pain to run up those credit cards!!!! This year I got new skiis (Atomic SX-7) so my snowboard supply is going to have to do for now. (F2 Eliminator and Oxygen FR47)

My daughter is now 3 and has been skiing with me some this year. Last year she was mostly in the backpack. I was just not strong enough to get her up the rope tow, but when we went to a different place that had a chairlift in the beginner area, she skiied and did well at about 29 months. I used an "H-Bar" with her last year. (see www.kid-ski.com) My feeling is that I'd like her to learn to ski before she snowboards. And that's only and IF she wants too. I've seen many little kids on snowboards flying down the beginner hills totally out of control. I've seen other little kids get very frustrated and not have fun with it.

The picture I'm attaching is of me skiing with Clara on my old skiis. I don't want her skiing over the tops of my new ones just yet!

Kathy

[gawdzira]

Hello Kathy,

Are you a professional instructor?

I taught for 2 seasons when I was 17 and 18 yrs old (which was back before the great wars).
I see that you are using the tip locking device and it appears that your darling daughter has a harness on. Do you let her lead and hold onto cords to check her speed.
When I have seen people use this method it seemed to make sense to me because it forces the child to keep their weight forward. Are the tip locking devices a must?

Thanks,

alan

[Neil Gendzwill]

At that age it's been my experience (with my sample size of 2 kids) that the tip-locking device is a must, or at least a huge help.

[Jutta]

our little one (3) just started skiing- and like her big sister (now 8 and proficient on "easier" black runs) she's using "edgie-wedgies", the contraption that lock the tips of her skis together. She learned how to position her feet before she ever got on skis: feet apart - slow, feet together - fast , and by her second day on the slopes she was making turns.
Personally, I don't like all the other "aids" very much; leashes, H-bars etc. seem to give the kids a false sense of security while encouraging bad posture. I'm not saying they never work, but there's so many kids out there who are literally just hanging in..

[kinpa]

Yes, I've been teaching for about 13 years. I am AASI level II certified and PSIA level I. The tip lock that you saw in the picture is called a "Try-Ski". There are many different devices out there that pretty much do the same thing. "Edgie-Wedgies" are kind of the same, but it's just a short rubber cord that screws on to the tips of the skiis. There is a little more freedom with the edgie-wedgies than there is with the try-ski. The thing that looks like a harness on her is actually a vest type harness with a little handle on the back. It is for picking up a small child to get them on the chair lift safetly, but it has many other "pick-me-up!" uses as well. (We used it when my daughter was first starting on her pony... it was just nice to have a little handle to hold on to her!) All the teaching aids I've seen are great when USED PROPERLY! Many aren't.... the harness type thing that I'm sure you've seen in use is not designed for speed control as most often used. That does put a child in a bad position. It should be used to get a child to turn. All the teaching aids I use (except the try-ski) came from a website called www.kid-ski.com. And yes, the teaching aids can become a "crutch." That is why another instructor, and friend of mine, will be skiing with Clara on Sunday. She is just getting way to comfortable with mom doing all the work! She likes it when I'm holding on to her and won't have it any other way! She's never even had any crashes yet.... mom just can't let go! :) Anyway, check out that website and feel free to email me if you have any other questions.

Kathy

[k_t]

Originally posted by Miguel
Hi...my name's Miguel and I'm a Carvaholic.

I'm feeling like I'm at an Alchoholics Anonymous meeting!

Actually...I admit to trying teli skiing last year....but only once...and I'm feeling darned guilty about it.:( Glad that's off my chest!

I have to confess to splitting my season up this year to about 50/50 alpine snowboard carving/tele skiing. So which rehab program do I go to for these habits? None I hope. Actually I do not plan give up either especially now when Sean Martin (Donek) is turning out such a great product for both. OK Fin, you too.