View Full Version : ThermoFlex vs. Insoles
December 4th, 2003, 05:40 PM
Have a ? for all of you 70 plus day guys who work the hell out of a board. I'm coming out of my tried and true Raichles and going into a Burton boot I have riden the thermo flex in the past in a hard boot. And tons in deeluxe soft boots, I've never run insoles in my soft boots(or my thermo tele or ski boots) and always felt plenty supported. Always ran the regular blatter in my race boots because it was stiffer! I do how ever have many pairs of insoles avalible.
I have test molded an older softer set of thermo bladders into my Burtons and found there is just not room for my insole! I have a brand new set of liners that I am going to mold as well but they have even more volume then the test bladder(old black softey).
I'm sure the boot fit is going to be way to snug with the insole. and I am going to first try with out it.
Besides the abrasion issues (Duct tape fix?)
Does any one have good and bad info, or working beta to share.
Again, I don't want to exclued anyone but I will spend every day in my boots riding way harder then you think. I have not changed boots in over 6 years because my other boots were perfect in till they broke!(and Raichle gave me every part I ever needed)
Please reply only if you can relate to that much riding and at a very high level. Thanks for any help! :rolleyes:
December 5th, 2003, 07:25 AM
Jack and Kent, thanks for the replys.
Kent no offense about the ribbing but I do feel a need to reply.
I ride and have riden for surefoot since 97, I am lucky enough to have some of the best if not the best boot fitters in the Wasatch front keeping my feet comfy. We are all considering no insole as a option because when we ran the test fit I am posted perectly in the boot and after 7 days on the test bladder I am pleased with the results, but do not have enough data to make the comitment to mold a brand new pair of bladders just yet. Plus the new bladder is much stiffer and I am concerned about cramping. I am no longer Racing and feel as though the absorbsion I get from not having a stiff cork or synthetic insole may be great for the style of riding I now enjoy. And I feel it may even dampen some as well!
Of course I mean custom orthotic. I have the joy of walking into surefoot with only a smile and walking out with a set any time I would like to. Problem is there really is not enough room in the boot with out using their race stock, super thin, cool guy half insole.
As I mentioned I have thermo flex blatters in everything because Raichle was nice enough to give me a oven and tube heater as well as two bags of toe caps for home use.
I have molded 20 or 30 pairs of boots for myself or friends and am very familar with the process. But when it comes to my hard boots I inlist the help of the boys at Surefoot.
The post was writen the way it was to limit the "heres what you should do because I know" response down. I just know how most of the Kooks on this board like to respond with out enough real experience. And truley wanted just the response of my peers which is why I wrote the post the way I did.
Now heres were I start to get Cocky so hold on!
I totally love the response Brother And thank you for it.
It was nice of you to share with me. But I wrote the post looking for Input from people who had riden with or with out the insole. And their experances, not for a quick lesson on bootfitting or technices. (even though it was a great summary with valid info).
perhaps it was interpated incorrectly. Perhaps I wrote it wrong!
I have noticed all of your post tend to remind people of your back ground. Some time I feel as though I should do the same, sometimes, but I decided to post a thread twards peers at a location that I have few. This does sound cocky but if you have been coaching for ten years. Then you understand that there are some of us out there that do everything and anything we want to in hard boots. I have been pushing the indrustry standerds since 88 in a hard boot at the joyful age of 15, now some 16 years later I just want some bro bra input on Thermoflex bladders with out a insole. (which I was lucky enough to have some of the first pairs of) Since I have not had one in a hard(snowboard) boot since 96 or so because I like the stiffer bladder. I had hoped to get it here!
Now here comes my ribbing.
Insole, orthotic point is valid, But I used the term insole because thats what a orthotic is. And since I am not going to use one whether it is stock or custom, as a orthotic is, does not matter.
As for room.....I do have a problem as I stated hence the post. I have even test molded a lower volume bladder in the boot with a insole and cramp horribly even with brand new or old and comfy surefoot orthotics. My soultion may be a shaved half insole but even then the ball of my foot will rest on the thermo bladder.
Since you are a boot fitter perhaps you have some info about stiff vs spongy footbed duromitter. I would love some input twards the pros and cons of each from a boot fitters view. I have sat down over beers with several boot fitters in the area and have imput but would love more.
Here is the quick skinny, I ride in Utah so the snow is very soft and some times bumpy(chop). I can drive a edge into any surface on auto pilot , while chatting on my cell phone. Then jump in the park and go up side down(though not as much as i used to) I ride boards from 149 to 200 but mostly Race stock SG with 17m+ radius I am in a burton 25.5-26 shell and wear a 9-9.5 us size.
My shell fit is just less then a finger. It is the only shell size I have access to.
Again The boys at Surefoot are the **** and we have pondered the no insole thermo flex problem alot. These are the same guys who put almost all of the US athletes in boots because the US training center is here in Park City, they know whats up and were the first to offer the lets try it with out option.
Once again no offeanse takin about your post and in no way did i think it was a ribbing. If I was a less experianced guy it was a great reply with helpful info. But I'm a seasoned Pro for real!
As far as your Bill Enos assumtion I do know him. I never worked with him as a coach but I did train with him and race against him I also used to be his demo guy when he first started doing race camps in the mid 90's If you know or see him tell him Billy Bordy says hello. If you would like to "Check Refrances". Enos Know I am not being cocky, Everyone who does not know me thinks so because I talk the talk. Turns out I run the walk.
December 5th, 2003, 08:48 AM
Yea I have both. We have even guick fit liners on tour in condos strait out of a non convection oven.
Your right about insole vs orthotic differance. How ever the point of not using them was, well my point. So I did not want to go into detail. Or open the maybe you have the wrong "footbed" debate.
Jack and Kent, I hope you dont think I starting trouble. I;m just looking for hardcore rider beta. So i can make up my own mind
I really was not looking for advise, But experainced rider input.
perhaps I worded my post poorly.
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