Boy Survives Frightening Moments Dangling from Chairlift (includes video)

[Pat Donnelly]

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_344150443.html

[Fleaman]

sounds like a liability issue for the area. The liftees should of told him to take his pack off before loading. On the other hand, I find the lift rules lax in the western areas. In Ontario, you have to have the safety bar down and take all packs off and ride with it on your lap. Out here, anything goes.

[sic t 2]

Awesome video, poor kid, and thank god for that deep Utah base.

I was in Utah (5 resorts) for 8 days last year around XMAS and found the chair rules loose too (I'm from NY). Like noone ever put the bar down out there and when you ask they give you a weird look. I got on the lift once with 3 patrollers and waited until we were high off the ground before I requested to put it down. Again, the weird look. I told them I thought their rules were crazy loose out there. They said they think its safer without the bar down since kids don't have to fiddle with it when they get off. They said "you will get used to it". Well, I said, consider this: all over the east "its the law". And what you are probably not aware of is we get used to leaning forward into the bar to crank our front bindings down tighter for the exit ramp, then rock back and raise the bar. And let me tell you this, if I do that by mistake and there is no bar to catch me I will begin to fall out of the chair, and on my way out I will grab right and left in a blind panic and two of you are going to go out of the chair with me.

sic

[Gecko]

There are a lot of places that don't have a bar....I can only remember one resort I rode last year that had bars and that was only on 3-4 lifts (out of like 15)...what they are expecting is that YOU are smart enough not to fall out of the chair...if not??? then Natural Selection:D

[Fleaman]

It is a bit unnerving the first ride without the bar, especially with the higher lifts in the west. You do get used to it though, but its nice sometimes to put it down and rest your feet on the pegs.

I guess it will take just one winning lawsuit or a tragedy to change the rules. What ever happened to resorts being proactive.

It would not be hard to enforce either. At Beaver Valley in Ontario if you don't have the bar down by the first tower, they shut the lift off untill you do.

I wonder if there are gondolas or trams with no doors, or you have the option of keeping them open?

[mirror70]

This doesn't seem to be an issue with lift rules. If you read the article, you'll see that he couldn't get off at the top because of his pack, and he was actually headed back down when he fell off.

I want to know two things:
1) WTF didn' the liftee at the top stop the lift when he saw that the kid couldn't get off? It's a detachable quad, so it spends a very long time at each end travelling slowly.
2) Every lift I have seen in the east has a bar at the top that stops the lift if someone doesn't get off at the top and doesn't pick up their legs. WTF happened here?

[Fleaman]

I want to know two things:

snip



A: The liftees were Stoned out of their freakin' minds

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by sic t 2
They said they think its safer without the bar down since kids don't have to fiddle with it when they get off.<p>Yep, I've heard this too - that there are more accidents on lifts with safety bars than on lifts without, due to people falling off when putting the bar down or pulling it up. This would cause any lawsuit based on the supposed lack of safety of a bar-less lift to fail.

I can't remember where I heard this story, and I don't know whether it's true, but I quite like having a safety bar.

True story:
About 25 years ago I got on a chairlift in New Zealand with my mother, but the flat seat part of the chair had been flipped up to prevent snow accumulating. There was nothing to sit on except the frame of the chair. I managed to support my weight on my hands and on the bar that ran under my knees, but my mother was having more difficulty and starting to panic. In fact she started screaming, which made my 13-year old self terribly embarassed. I figured if she fell arse-first through the gap where the seat should have been her skis would prevent her from falling all the way to the ground, and as long as the lifty at the top saw the situation early enough, she'd be OK.

Well, she didn't fall through, and she was too embarassed and humiliated by the whole experience to complain to the mountain staff. 'Twas a pretty serious mistake from the lifty though!

[thomas_m]

Originally posted by Crave2carve
Can someone cooler or wiser explain to me the need to carry a backpack (READ: extra weight high off the ground) while snowboarding INSIDE the Ski resort boundary and riding the lifts? I know that they are NOT carrying beacons, shoes, skins and extendable avalanche poles so what gives?
I see the younger kids on the hill with huge backpacks and always wondered WHY? Is it cool or is it mimickry of the back country videos. I just dont get it and I am sure someone will explain it to me.......................Thanks.

Video camera, still camera, cell phone, food and drink because they don't have the bucks for the $5 cokes at the lodge?

T.

[thomas_m]

Originally posted by Fleaman
It is a bit unnerving the first ride without the bar, especially with the higher lifts in the west. You do get used to it though, but its nice sometimes to put it down and rest your feet on the pegs.

I guess it will take just one winning lawsuit or a tragedy to change the rules. What ever happened to resorts being proactive.

It would not be hard to enforce either. At Beaver Valley in Ontario if you don't have the bar down by the first tower, they shut the lift off untill you do.

I wonder if there are gondolas or trams with no doors, or you have the option of keeping them open?

At Baker, Crystal, Snoqualmie in WA the lifts without bars are as common or more common than those without. It's very rare that the ones with bars get pulled down. I was so used to no one pulling the bar, I almost got brained last year when a woman skier pulled it down without saying anything. If I hadn't had my helmet, it'd probably cracked my skull and I'd have fallen out of the lift for sure.

The only good thing about those damn bars is having somwhere to rest your foot. They are a PITA on a mixed 6-pack of skiers, goofy and reg foot boarders...

T.

[philfell]

I like the lax bar rules out here. Let me be responsible for me, who would be blamed if you forgot to put the bar down and went to buckle in and fell off? The government for not passing a law requiring you to use the provided safty equipment, the resort for making ski patrol stand under lifts yelling at customers for not putting their bar down, or you who didn't put the bar down and made a careless mistake?

I don't know how many times I've been banged in the knees or head by someone putting the bar down without letting everyone else know what their doing (on a chair that sits 6 people sometimes the bar comes totally unexpected).

Carve2carve the chair the kid fell from actually acesses the upper bowls and some areas you need to hike to. Some people do take lift to get to the backcountry. This probably wasn't the case here though the acess was closed due to avalanche conditions when this happened. He probably had random items like extra clothes, lunch, ect. becase he didn't want to spend the money on a locker and he looked pretty young so I don't think he had a car to stash his goods and mom was probably at the tanning bed or something. Remember when you were young, after mom droped you off at the resort you were kind of on you own.

[philfell]

lockers cost money putting it in a back pack dosen't.

If you are carrying a video camera it dosen't do much good in a locker.

[mirror70]

A locker also means you need to stop to get anything from it, and also means that you need to either go up or down to get to it. At places like Killington or Stowe with multiple bases, getting something from your locker could be a real pain in the butt.

Backpacks are useful and don't affect your riding much, unless you're carrying 40lbs of junk. The added weight can even be a good thing because it is up high where you can use it. Weight in your legs is much harder to use because its position is so closely connected with edge angle.

[philfell]

Mirror, I just read your upper post. That lift has an optical eye just beyond the unloading station. This eye is like what's on a garage door, or at the finish of a race course. I don't know why it took so long for the lift to stop. Maybe because the eye is located half way around the bull wheel and it take some time to stop the lift after it was activated. The slope drops away very fast from the top of this lift, he wasn't very far past the top station.

[bobdea]

I used to see this stuff all the time my question is why that the lift was stopped so far past the return
if the operator was watching his lift it would have been stopped long before that and the P.O. gate should have stopped it before he was so far out as well

at least once a day on a weekend you will see someone get hung up from either having their poles between their legs and out the back of the chair or from a pack that gets caught up

the board at the bottom of lifts with all the warnings is there for a reason
people need to use their heads
just take the bag off its that easy

[Steve Dold]

Crave2carve: I never liked carrying packs either, but lately I've started carrying a small Camelback backpack with water mixed with something like Gatorade or Cytomax. I HATE stopping and this thing makes riding a lot more fun, I don't know if it's the Placebo effect or not but I feel like I can go all day with this thing. It's also a handy place to stuff Cliff bars.

With my Camelback, and a pair of Depends, I'm good for all day

:p

[Fleaman]

I have a good analogy. I was at Lake Louise with my wife and her parents. We had our lunch in backpack in a locker in the main lodge. We slid most of the morning and went to the other side of the mountain where the woman wanted to go, but one problem, our lunch was at the main lodge. My father-in-law and I went back to the main lodge and rode 3 lifts to get to the other lodge to eat lunch. I rode the rest of the day with the pack because I could not leave it at the other lodge because I could not get it back at the end of the day. Also riding with a pack is harmless, you don't even notice it. Most people will take it off and put it in their lap while loading the chair. I do all the time.

Some kids smoke lots of weed and need daypacks for all their parphenalia and snacks.


Another story. My wife and I were at Sunshine and I lowered the safety bar but hit her on the head and she chipped the crown on her teeth. It cost us about 800 bucks to fix. Thank god for insurance.

[bumpyride]

You know it's really unnecessary to have bars on the lifts. I think for safety's sake you should never have bars on the lifts. Think of the ramifications and insurance concerns if you have bars on the lifts. I can't believe what I'm reading here that some resorts have bars on the lifts. It's an accident waiting to happen. It seems to me that the people involved with the safety issues would have broached this subject long before and banned bars on the lifts. Where are your brains people? Isn't it enough to have bars in the Chalets? Don't we have enough people getting drunk after skiing. Why would you have them get drunk when they are skiing. Don't you think that there's enough time after skiing to get drunk without starting early in the day on the bars on the lifts.






Oh! You were talking about safety restraints--Sorry

[Gecko]

Originally posted by Steve Dold
Crave2carve: I never liked carrying packs either, but lately I've started carrying a small Camelback backpack with water mixed with something like Gatorade or Cytomax. I HATE stopping and this thing makes riding a lot more fun, I don't know if it's the Placebo effect or not but I feel like I can go all day with this thing. It's also a handy place to stuff Cliff bars.

With my Camelback, and a pair of Depends, I'm good for all day

:p

Yeah last year I used a K2 Backcountry Systems backpack that carries a camelback bladder...it's only about 3-4 inches deep. I keep a days worth of food (you think food at american resorts is expensive???) my still camera set in a foam cube sits at the top. I can't think of any time I wouldn't want to be wearing my bag...that and I like being able to drink water all day without having to pay 300Y for 0.5L

[bobdea]

Originally posted by bumpyride
You know it's really unnecessary to have bars on the lifts. I think for safety's sake you should never have bars on the lifts. Think of the ramifications and insurance concerns if you have bars on the lifts. I can't believe what I'm reading here that some resorts have bars on the lifts. It's an accident waiting to happen. It seems to me that the people involved with the safety issues would have broached this subject long before and banned bars on the lifts. Where are your brains people? Isn't it enough to have bars in the Chalets? Don't we have enough people getting drunk after skiing. Why would you have them get drunk when they are skiing. Don't you think that there's enough time after skiing to get drunk without starting early in the day on the bars on the lifts.


Oh! You were talking about safety restraints--Sorry

two things with bars they make people feel a little more safe and when there is a E stop
I have slid nearly out of a seat on a windy day with a E stop they could potentialy save your ass
the idea of getting hit in the head with a bar is way better than dropping 60 feet onto ledge or ice

[bobdea]

and I just reread you post
yeah I need to spend less time at the bar before I post smug responses to humorus posts!

[Gecko]

there are bars on east coast lift chairs??? Lawyers...the reason there aren't on western chairs (or that they aren't used)??? There is a hunting season on lawyers in certain parts of Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Idaho:D All kidding aside Lawyers are the reason for the bars...people are stupid and lawyers protect stupid people.

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by Gecko
Lawyers are the reason for the bars...

If my memory is correct about the statistics showing bars cause more injuries than they prevent, lawyers will be the reason for all the bars to be removed.

[Gecko]

Injuries from the safety bars tend to be minor...injuries from stupid people falling because the bar wasn't there to stop them from falling???well those tend to be fatal. USA has more lawyers than engineers so every time something like this happens it stokes the flames for the a lawsuit...the resort is to blame because they don't have safety bars yada yada. Thank god Japan has more engineers than Lawyers...sadly I'm headed home to that lawsuit mentality next year

[Baka Dasai]

Again, my recollection could be faulty, but I think the bars caused more people to fall off the chair than if there were no bars.

Not related to my point, I once met a guy who claimed to have fallen off a chair when he was carrying a bunch of gates over his shoulder. He had turned around to look at something just as his chair was passing a lift tower, and the gates got snagged in the tower and levered him out of the chair.

[Gecko]

Stupid people (http://www.fwsa.wbees.com/page/page/689594.htm) always sue even when they are in a COMA

[philw]

I can't think of a European chair without a bar, and most of them have foot rests which are useful for those of us who fancy a rest. You're generally required to put the bar down, and there's absolutely no problem/ issue with getting out of it all at the top station.

I have noticed the whole "macho" thing in the US, which is kind of weird when you consider the US penchant for helmets, lawyers and stuff. I abuse your friendly hospitality and politely put the bar down... chairs can stop quickly and I don't want to have to even think about hanging onto them.

[Baka Dasai]

People in a coma can sue for lots of damages, whereas dead people get nothing. It's one of those things you learn in law school - if you're going to negligently injure somebody, make sure you kill them.

In the case you cited, the coma dude lost his case under Colorado common law, but won on appeal due to the specifics of some Colorado statutes. Without having read those statutes it's hard to know why he won.

The US is lawsuit crazy because there is minimal disincentive for filing a weak case. With nothing to lose people think they may as well roll the dice and see what they win. In Australia the loser usually has to pay the winner's legal costs, so people only file lawsuits if their case is strong.

[ARCrider]

but i do try to control it. I'll be the first to put a hand on it so i don't get it in the back of the head. Usually rest an arm on it for the ride and then take care of raising it to not lose teeth.

easy pattern to adopt and control can be relinquished or shared if another rider wants to be the bartender

I know there's a few sliders from my club that are thankful for mandatory bar use. We had a cable go between the counterweight and bottom bullwheel. Bullwheel collapsed narrowly missing 4people loading. The entire line then danced like a bungee cord. Nobody was ejected they all had bars down. No serious injuries that day, only some broken bones and bruises. Could easily have had several cases for the intensive care unit.

[nils]

Phil is right regarding euro lifts, and the first time i sat in Aspen on the buttermilk chair i looked around to see where the bar was, and it was nowhere to be found... I suffer vertigo pretty easy and even on this not too high chair, i had to grab the frame in order to feel comfy....The absence of feet rest is also a bummer, since hardboots are heavy, and the cantilever you have with a front foot and the board can be painful after a long day of riding!
So i'd like to see the stats of fatal injuries of chairlifts without protection vs chairlift equiped with them!! What is a bit weird on the kid accident, is that the chairlift alarm didn't stopped moving, since it usually has a small switch that catches legs crossing it after the 180° turn...

N.

[trailertrash]

i once went all the way arround on a chair, i was too short and couldnt get off the chair. then, since i was so short, my skiis didnt hit the bar that would have stopped the chair so i went down came back up and tried it again.

[thomas_m]

Originally posted by mirror70
A locker also means you need to stop to get anything from it, and also means that you need to either go up or down to get to it. At places like Killington or Stowe with multiple bases, getting something from your locker could be a real pain in the butt.



Mt Baker here is the same way. To get back to base from some areas means you have to take another chair up to some other part of the mountain then board over somewhere else and so on.

I'm going to start carrying a small backpack with a hydration bladder init myself.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by trailertrash
i once went all the way arround on a chair, i was too short and couldnt get off the chair. then, since i was so short, my skiis didnt hit the bar that would have stopped the chair so i went down came back up and tried it again. \



ha! serious?

[Jon G.]

Originally posted by Crave2carve
Can someone cooler or wiser ... extra weight high off the ground) ....Thanks.

IN addition to all the other good reasons, this is a big one for me. I spent at least as much time in the backcountry as on lifts, and I find it easier to be USED to that extra weight, at least some of it. Otherwise when I am out on a overnight trip with a bigger pack I am too off balance. A few years ago I had a 6000ft descent with a sopping wet, super full pack that felt like a 120 lb. monkey jumping around as I tried to ride down, and after that I always have a little pack at least when I ride.

And I love ducking into the woods for a quiet lunch of good healthy cheap food instead of waiting in line or sitting in the car for lunch.



As to the chairlift bars, a lot of my peers here in Washington call them sissy bars, and I have been knocked hard in the head (6'2") when someone just flipped one down more than once. That look some of you have seen when you ask to put it down means "this lift is short, that thing is a pain for tall people, are you kidding?" (but thanks for ASKING, instead of just doing!)

That said, it was a bit of an adjustment when I moved out from the Midwest, but I switched to hardboots at about the same time, and the lack of strap pressure, and comfy feet, allowed me to get used to the hanging board. Just ride more, your muscles can deal!

[philfell]

Crave2carve, if you viewed my post as a flame I'm sorry. I've been to Blue Mt. yeah not much of a reason to carry supplies for the whole day there. But in this case is about a person at Park City Mt. Resort, a place I've logged probably over 600 days and that might be a conservative number. It has over 3000 acres and over 3100 feet of vertical, and four lodges with cafaterias slattered on the mountain. This is what is base my reasoning for back packs. What you see at Blue is probably dumb kids trying to be cool, the same goes for why they wear their pants like that. As long as they are having fun and not interfering with your ability to have fun, who cares?

[trailertrash]

yep, i was about 5 or 6. it was on the mixing bowl chair at mt snow. i had red rossi wooden skiis with bear trap bindings. i was just glad to be on the lift, my parents made me hike until i could ski. i guess they figured why buy a ticket if he cant ski.
john




Originally posted by D-Sub
\



ha! serious?

[willywhit]

Originally posted by Jon G.




As to the chairlift bars, a lot of my peers here in Washington call them sissy bars, and I have been knocked hard in the head (6'2") when someone just flipped one down more than once. That look some of you have seen when you ask to put it down means "this lift is short, that thing is a pain for tall people, are you kidding?" (but thanks for ASKING, instead of just doing!)
I concur, If one more nervous novice yanks down the bar as soon as my feet leave the snow and I get tagged in the helmet...Grrrrr! I like to grab the bar first and provide some resistance as they kinda freak a little. "BAR DOWN!" Anyone ever jump off the lift into a low spot into some soft snow? I'm out....

[LeeW]

Darwinism award is in order!


Originally posted by Gecko
There are a lot of places that don't have a bar....I can only remember one resort I rode last year that had bars and that was only on 3-4 lifts (out of like 15)...what they are expecting is that YOU are smart enough not to fall out of the chair...if not??? then Natural Selection:D

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by willywhit
I like to grab the bar first and provide some resistance as they kinda freak a little. "BAR DOWN!"
Heh - totally.

Anyone ever jump off the lift into a low spot into some soft snow? I'm out....

I've heard this can bounce the chair and cause a derailment.

[Skully]

1) WTF didn' the liftee at the top stop the lift when he saw that the kid couldn't get off? It's a detachable quad, so it spends a very long time at each end travelling slowly.

I believe someone else already answered this question... (heh heh...)


2) Every lift I have seen in the east has a bar at the top that stops the lift if someone doesn't get off at the top and doesn't pick up their legs. WTF happened here?

As I understand what happened, when his backpack caught, he was at the very outer-end of the chair. He was drug around on the outside of the chair, and missed the bar (If there was one) because he was too far out. Next time you ride, check out the stop bars. Most of them are desiged to catch you if you are sitting on the chair, they don't reach beyond the end of the chair. maybe after this resorts will lengthen some them to catch situations like this.....