workout program - LEGS OF STEEL

[rikytheripster]

hey all

am gonna b off boarding soon and need some tough training to build legs of steel. anyone have any workout routines?
my upper body is good but need the legs built.

cheers

[Vahur]

Squats would be probably easiest and most effective way (although I try to avoid them due to my knee problems, instead uphill running on sand slope :P will build up legs and helps general/cardiovascular condition also)
Good source for exercises is:
http://together.net/~ronjav/sbtp/index.htm

[Neil Gendzwill]

Squats, deads, lunges, wall sits.

[Vahur]

As subject says....

[jason_watkins]

something I recently saw in a skiier mag:

Stand on one leg. Now, do a squat, making your chest/shoulder touch your knee. Bend your knee and waist as nessisary to do this, but keep your shin more or less upright and don't bend your ankle.

So do a few of those, then switch legs... repeat until you start to feel it. If you want something a little intensive, grab a dumbell and hold it straight up, arms over your head. Now do the same motion, holding that dumbell with your arms straight, so that at the bottom of the squat movement your arms are horizontal holding it straight out in front, your back is parellel to the floor, and your knee is touching your chest/shoulder.

I tried this with a 30 pounder the other day and man was that intense. Works all those little bits of muscle to keep your balance instead of just letting you power through each lift.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Sorry, should have said squats (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBSquat.html),deads (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBDeadlift.html), lunges (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBLunge.html), wall sits (http://www.skihealth.com/conditioning/wall-sit-5.htm). The wall sit link says try to hold for 30 seconds - if this is all you can do, your quads need more work for riding.

[Vahur]

Not being native English speaker, the understanding of specific terminology without explanations can be little difficult. Provided links provide enough explanation, thanks!

The wall sit link says try to hold for 30 seconds - if this is all you can do, your quads need more work for riding.
Damn, if skiing requires 30 sec. of wall sitting, then I will drop snowboarding and pick up skiing instead: last time I measured I got 3 minutes, but I'm not sure, that it will be sufficient for carving whole day :confused:

[Neil Gendzwill]

Yeah, 3 minutes is about my limit too. For comparison, I hear Canadian national ski team guys can do around 10 minutes.

[Vahur]

For comparison, I hear Canadian national ski team guys can do around 10 minutes.
Well, then more squats and sand slope running is in order. Tomorrow, promise :)
And 1 more post to become member, instead of junior one :D

[north east will]

this might be oriented more toward serious racers or maybe not. is anyone doing power cleans as part of a snowboard work out? i was taught they are good for building explosive power which isnt exactly what you need for snowboarding. just curious

will

[Chris]

I'm no expert but I think that in additon to strength training (squats etc.), and lactic acid tolerance? (wall sits), plyometrics really help. They give your muscles power, which is the ability to fire quickly while under load. Exactly what you need on the slopes. In the gym, your body is fairly static, and you isolate a muscle group. While riding, nothing is static (except the skiers you pass :D ) Strength is definitely necessary, but if your muscles can't fire when needed to keep edge pressure on rough terrain, or to regain balance when your edge starts to break loose, it won't matter how big those quads are. http://www.exrx.net has some examples.

[north east will]

so that sounds like a yes to power cleans

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Chris
In the gym, your body is fairly static, and you isolate a muscle group.
Depends on the exercise. Squats and deads don't isolate - they require coordination of a bunch of muscles with emphasis on the legs, and build a lot of core strength. Many people believe that if you do squats, deads and benches, you don't really need to do anything else for general strength. Those are the big 3 powerlifting exercises. Of course if you want hyoooge bis, tris delts etc then you have to add the isolation bits, but we're just talking about general strength for riding here.

This is all assuming you do these with free weights. If you use machines then there's more isolation going on.

Neil

PS Wallsits do isolate - it's all quad baby. Stay there until they jello-ize on ya!

[jason_watkins]

will: I read somewhere that skiing and snowboarding are supposedly an even mix of glycosis, anerobic and aerobic respiration. But in my own experience, my heart rate is rarely raised much boarding... so I think it's amost entirely anerobic. I think focusing on burst power and quick recovery might be just the ticket. After all, we've got the lift ride up to replace some ATP.

[mellowjonny]

Jason,
Very funny
If what you wrote were true i would be out of work instead of a endurance racer and coach. Carving is one of the ultimate muscular and cardiovascular endurance sports out there. I would have any of my clients who wanted to carve powerfully all day long do 6 weeks of aerobic base then start doing strength and aerobic strength exercise. One indoor machine that i use alot for carving is the Concept 2 erg--high damper setting 3 minutes hard 3 minutes rest.
Jason try wearing a HR monitor next time your on the mountain.
adios

[johann]

I'd reccommend some focused hamstring work with all that leg development. Sure there is some hamstring work going on with the Squats and Dead Lifts but If all one is doing is sqauts, deads and wall sits they're headed up the road to some muscle imbalance injuries.

Little extra balance things one can do are no weight squats on the swiss ball. One of the trainers at the gym I know had a personal record of those of around 47.

Don't forget the pilates or some other core work.

If you're interested in off season work, cycling and speed skating will really condition one aerobically while developing leg strength.

Don't forget the stretching. if you can try out bikram yoga, that'll keep the legs limber and develop some crazy balance muscles too.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you're worried about muscle imbalance, do some leg curls or stiff-legged deads for the hams. The stiff-legged deads scare me a little, so I do the curls.

[Steve Wood]

Originally posted by mellowjonny
One indoor machine that i use alot for carving is the Concept 2 erg--high damper setting 3 minutes hard 3 minutes rest.

Yes, the erg is great! I mostly do longer sessions. What kind of stroke rate / split times would you target for the 3 on/3 off sets? Right now I'm at around 1:50 / 500m on a low damper over 6K.

Thanks
Steve

[Mike T]

I spent a good chunk of time this summer and fall training for this season, and in the few days I've had on the snow I've noticed a huge difference. I've sessentially been rotating my gym days between lower body, upper body, and cardio.

Lower body:

Squats
Dead lifts
Leg Press

Leg extension
Leg curl
Adduction
Abduction
Calf raise


Upper body

Bench
Decline bench
Incline bench
Seated military
Dips
Lat pulldowns
Seated rows
Tricep extensions
Bicep curls
"standing dumbell raises" (bells at side, arms straight, lift up ad out keeping arms straight)
Shoulder shrugs

Cardio

1 hour on an elliptical trainer, vary the incline throughout, *no hands*


Much of the reason for the upper body workout is to reduce the chance of serious injury in a crash. Liftig improves bone strength as well as muscle strength - both are needed to ride away from a crash.

The adductions (or is it abductions? - the one where you push together as opposed to push apart) seem to be improving my knee stability greatly in addition to the groin area. Two seasons ago I was plagues with weak knees all season. Adding this exercise seems to have licked that problem.

I don't do a lot of weight on squats or deads, I really concentrate on form. I do as much weight as I can with leg presses.

Elliptical trainer w/ no hands is good for balance, posture, and lower back as well as cardio workout. I'm hoping that and the dead lifts will strength my glutes / lower back so I'll break at the waist less when carving.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Wow, that's more than I have time for. I devote two lunch hours a week to weight training. I do a circuit twice, each exercise is 10 reps to failure more or less (except for the crunches and deads where I do more due to not having enough weight available). I don't have access to barbells, only dumbells and machines so I've had to adapt. Here's the circuit:

Leg press (machine)
Dumbell military press
Dumbell deadlifts (sometimes I'll do lunges on the 2nd round)
Crunches (machine)
Dumbell bench press
Back extension (machine)
Leg curl (machine)
Triceps extension (sometimes sub dips)
Biceps curl

Haven't been on snow yet this year but this workout has sure helped my martial arts (kendo and judo).

[jason_watkins]

Originally posted by mellowjonny
[B]Jason,
Very funny
If what you wrote were true i would be out of work instead of a endurance racer and coach

Well of course racing is a whole different game. I didn't say "racing" or "carving like a banshee down the steepest longest trail on earth all day"... I said "boarding", just all around freeriding. What I'm saying is true in my experience, and I don't need to wear a heart monitor to know it. When I do a mostly aerobic activity, I can hear and feel my heartbeat quite clearly. When I'm boarding my heartbeat is elevated above what it would be sitting in the bar, for sure, but it's no where near where it is jogging in the city or even just walking uphill at the same altitude on the mountain.

Your 3 minutes hard, 3 minutes rest cycle on that machine sounds like lactate threshold training. I'm no trainer or coach, but that's exactly what I'd focus on if I was doing an exercise program to improve my boarding endurance.

[Skully]

I don't know if I would call this a workout or not, but I spent a lot of time on a Carveboard last year, and my time to get into boarding shape last year was much shorter than usual. Riding the Carveboard 2 to 3 days a week worked all the correct muscles for carving.... Plus - I think lugging the huge tank-of-a-board back up the hill after each run helped also.

I've also done the cycling, running, weight-lifting thing, but they just don't work the right muscles for me. The Carveboard (and I'm sure any other dry-land trainer like the T-board) and plain old laps on the hill have been my best forms of getting in carving shape.

My $.02:cool:

[johann]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
If you're worried about muscle imbalance, do some leg curls or stiff-legged deads for the hams. The stiff-legged deads scare me a little, so I do the curls.

Stiff legged deadlift are great for the hamstrings and lower back. Its a nice stretch then contraction movement. Why are you scared of them?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Just worried about my 42 year old back. I know done properly they're safe but I still am a little nervous, and I don't really have anyone to check my form when I'm working out. The leg curls work OK.

[johann]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
Just worried about my 42 year old back. I know done properly they're safe but I still am a little nervous, and I don't really have anyone to check my form when I'm working out. The leg curls work OK.

I can sympathize with back issues.
Personally I think stiff legged dead lifts are a much better lower back workout, and safer than say hyperextensions.

Biggest thing I see people doing wrong with stiff legged deadlifts: bending ones back. To really do them properly one needs to keep one's back straight as a board. Most people try to go all the way to the floor and end up rounding the back which is where the problems will happen.

But if you don't have someone to correct bad form, and you have a leg curl machine do leg curls.

My favorite is to superset the stiff-legged deads with leg curls.

[SirDoofus]

The best "exercise" I have found for riding endurance/strength.

I have tried just about everything in the weight room at one point or another either as a competetive bodybuilder, powerlifter or college strength coach, and I have found more than anything else, one form of leg training to significantly improve my performance on the slope.

Before I get into it though, I want to reiterate what has been previously posted about taking a balanced approach to strength development, it does you no good to have energizer bunny quads if your core can't handle the demands.

Basically what I am reccomending is a sort of dynamic variation on wall sits under load. Now I like to do this in a squat format with weight, however, probably any type of pressing movement can work as well. Now keep in mind that when I say "under load" I mean that relatively. It doesn't take a lot of weight to get a good effect, and in some cases it might be prudent not to use anything more than bodyweight. It just depends on the condition of the individual.

In any case, I would highly reccomend starting out with light weights and slowly increase the weight as your strength (especially lower back) develops.

The exercise. If you are using free bar squat equipment, I would suggest doing this inside a power rack or some other similar device that can support the weigh before you fall to the gound.

Using a LIGHT WEIGHT to start out with, get into the squat position like you normally would, get your watch in front of you so you can see it, and proceed to squat down to the lowest (most bent knee) position you are likely to encounter while you are in a high g turn. Then proceed to press back up to the highest postion you are likely to encounter while in that same high G turn/transition. Be sure not to extend so far up that you take the load off your quads, the idea is to maintain constant pressure on the muscles involved in a turn while moving up and down through the normal vertical range one would encounter on the hill (not including coasting, I am toalking about the range you would encounter while you are working your linked turns).

Now, do this as long as you can (I wouldn't suggest counting reps) and when you absolutely can't go any longer, check your time and make a note of it. The next time you do it, you want to try and either add a little weight and go for the same time, or add no weight and try to increase your interval by 5-10 seconds, or more if you can.

I like this a lot better than wall sits becuase I think it does several things wall sits don't.
1) You are actively lenghening and shortening the muscle under stress which is much more beneficial for functional strength than static contractions
2) you are more closely approximating the actions you go through on the hill, so it is more "sport specific" to carving than wall sits.
3) By adding weight you are emulating the effect of increased G forces encountered in a carved turn (with wall sits the fricition generated by your back and the wall decreases the load on the quads significantly)
4) and you are still getting the benefit of all that lovely lactic acid build up to make your day wonderful

Now of course, like anything, there are I am sure, more variations to this idea than there are riders on this board, and I am sure many of them would be quite good. A few I have tried and like include:

"Ball Sits" put workout ball in between you and the wall so you can easily move up and down, this is a good one if you don't want to use anything more than body weight, but you can certainly hold onto a weight as well.

Using a dip belt to hold wight between your legs instead of on your upper back as in squats.

Using a sissy squat rack

Using a Smith machine.

Varying the speed with which you move up and down. On a few reps I like to "freefall" into the lower postion and then stop myself abruptly, this emulates the sudden increase in G force encountered when you hit a bump or a sudden incline. NOTE!!!! PLEASE BE CAREFUL DOING THIS. Your lower back and knees are particularly vulnerable to injury if you don't use impeccable form. Do not 'freefall' into a position higher than about 60-65 Degrees, i.e. the tops of your quads should be no more than 2 inches or so above parallel to the floor. The reason being is that much above this the ligaments around the knee end up taking the brunt of the load which can be significant when speed is involved, even with a light weight. As you move past 45 degrees, the bulk of the load transfers to the quads, hips, glutes and hamstrings. Also, probably doesn't need to be said but I will anyway....you definitely do not want to drop into a postion much below parallel to the floor, as the knees again begin to progressively take up more of the load the farther past parallel you go.

I did for awhile try to make this movement even more sport specific by putting myelf into the general position I am in when I am riding. However its a bit awkward and I decided that it wasn't such a good idea, for me anyway, because I think it strenghened things in my trunk a bit unevenly. But it might be worth a try for you, just be careful.

As far as volume and frequency goes, I will leave it up to you to decide what will fit best with your schedule, days riding, etc. I will say that I have had great success doing one "set" 2-3 times per week pre-season along with regular leg training, and then
0-3 times per week in-season depending on how much riding I do that week.

There are many schools of though on this particlular subject and I won't get into it. However, for some interesting information on principles associated with training frequency and volume and overtraining you might check out a website www.thinkmuscle.com, click on the articles link, then under 'articles by topic' click on training, then click on the links to hypertrophy-specific training, frequency and endurance. Keep in mind this particular site is dedicated to bodybuilding training which doesn't necesarily correlate really well in some aspects to athletic training, however the principles and research to back them up are interesting. Another site on the same topic is www.hsnhst.com.

Just a quick comment on injuries. I was a strength coach for the OSU Athletic Dept for 3 years, and during the whole time I was there we never had an injury in the weight room that occured while someone was using training poundages. Every injury we had was during warm ups, when people were using light weights and not paying attention to their form or what they were doing. It really doesn't take much to hurt yourself if you are out of position, regardless of how easy or light the weight may feel. So please, take every load seriously and always pay attention to your form and position, no matter what.

Anyway, good luck if you try it, and I am sure you won't be dissapointed.

Cheers, M





:eek: :eek:

[north east will]

Originally posted by SirDoofus
Using a sissy squat rack

Using a Smith machine.

whats the difference between these two?

[SirDoofus]

A Smith Machine is basically a power rack with the bar locked in a guide system, see: http://newyorkbarbells.com/smithgyms.html

A sisy squat 'rack' (rack is kind of overdramatizing it) is a small shin/knee high piece of equipment that locks your feet in so you....well, take a look here: http://www.fit-senior.com/acatalog/Fit_Senior_Sissy_Squat_Platform_524.html

Hope that helps.

Cheers, Mike

[north east will]

ive used a smith machine before, i have never seen the sissy squat platform before

thanks for the info

will

[Tim W]

For those of you who want to work on your hamstrings this website has some great exercises and strentches along with other great sport medicine related information.

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0206b.htm

[johann]

Interesting Post sirDoofus, any chance of including your whole workout program on/off season. I'd be interested in seeing the whole thing.

[BoulderGeek]

FWIW, I went out yesterday at little Eldora, outside Boulder, CO.

Snow was dry, 5" fresh, clear blue sky.

I was on my 165 Salomon 550 general freeride board, with TD1 step-ins.

I had thought that my summer of active road cycling around Boulder and mountain biking deeper in the mountains would have prepared me. Perhaps the two weeks I was on my back with the flu caused massive muscle atrophy.

I could barely survive 1500 vetical feet before my quads locked up. I'd have to stop and massage and stretch before I could continue. And I drank creatine on the way up, to increase my intramuscular lactic acid threshold.

So, now I have been humbled. I need to do more prep and leg crunching. Good suggestions above.

I just replaced my 7 year old Raichle 124s (longest lasting $99 I ever spent). And so I am really anxious to take out the 174 prior 4WD with new boots. I need new skeletal muscles to bo with the package, I think.

Ride hard and keep the good chatter going!

[north east will]

if "my quads locked up" to mean you cramped up this is very likely a result of you taking creatine. i have known several athletes who have used it and had problems with dehydration and cramping

will

[BoulderGeek]

Well, it may be, however, creatine use is a normal part of my cycling and boarding at altitude. I find that it prolongs lactic acid saturation and allows a longer period of aerobic activity prior to the onset of cramping.

I find that when I move my exercise to elevations ~10,000 ft MSL, from my resting home of 5400 feet, my muscled tend to not get the oxygen delivery that they want. Creatine can help to at least allow the muscles to work with the available oxygen a little bit longer.

I'm pretty sure that my personal issues were with lack of strength training. However, you are most correct about the need for proper hysdration in all activities, especially when using supplements like creatine. Everyone's mileage may vary.

[SirDoofus]

Johann -- email me sir_doofus@hotmail.com