Advise and comparisons

[LambertoMI]

Hello All.

Need some gear advise as I am totally lost for a new purchase.

Please give me you reviews, thoughts and comparisions between the following.

Virus Tantalus Evo III - 175
Donek FCII -175+ ??
F2 SILBERPFEIL CARBON EDITION - 172
Coiler VSR FC - Tight radius? -177

I am a seasoned carver, 20+ yrs. Been mostly on off the shelf boards, 6' 200lbs, and I lean heavy on my gear (old school asym guy). I used to fold up the nose on the old burton burton ultra primes. I am mostly a midwest ice fake snow guy.

Just looking for thougths or suggestions as well.

Thanks!

L-

[Pat Donnelly]

I am 6' & 210 lbs and ride a lot in S.E. Mich.

My Coiler VSR XT is 169, Bruce steered me towards this after I explained what I wanted and it is a fun ride and all that Bruce said it would be.

If I were to consider another Donek FC it would be a 185. My former FC was a 179, but this was 10 years ago and Sean has improved upon this board since.

Suggest contacting Coiler and Donek and get their input.

[Gcarve]

My response would be somewhat partial :D. I'd say get a 175-180 Donek Metal FC. I'll assume you've already read my Donek Metal FC 171 review here on the Carve Specific Boards review section. If not, check it out.

[LambertoMI]

Pat,
Thanks for the info. I have emailed Virus, Frank was responsive and very positive. I have not heard back from Sean, he is probably very busy this time of year. I did not reach out to Coiler.

I considered a coiler, but a metal board concerns me. I want a really good "pop" board. I have an old Burton asym 7.0. This board is a factory mistake so the tail is over cambered. From the rear binding it bends down severly. This board rockets out of turns due to this "mistake". I bought this board new 12 yrs ago, and just christened it a couple yrs ago. Wow. Wish I had opened it earlier.

Would love to check out the coiler sometime. When the snow gets going, we should set up some ride time. I am based out of Brighton.

Gcarve,
I read your whole post on the FC. That is part of what made me rethink my next board endeavor. But as I mentioned above, I am concerned about the weight of metal boards. The older metal sheets were very heavy, extremely precise, and also a little on the dead side.

I have also been talking to a fellow at Thirst Snowboards. He seems very exact and scientific about his productions as well. Mark seems to have some revolutionary ideas about boards and board construction.

[ursle]

If you've got the cheese to grab the Virus do it, the Donek and Coiled are good boards but hands down the Virus is superior, the F2 if really new may have been made by Virus and would be a good choice if money were an issue and the Coiler and Donek weren't in the mix.

[Gcarve]

Gcarve,
I read your whole post on the FC. That is part of what made me rethink my next board endeavor. But as I mentioned above, I am concerned about the weight of metal boards. The older metal sheets were very heavy, extremely precise, and also a little on the dead side.

Talk to Sean (keep trying, you will eventually get in touch with him, he is probably extremely busy this time of year), he can add some CF to your Metal board, giving you that "pop" you're looking for. And for what it's worth, I didn't find the weight of my Metal FC to be of any consequence once on the snow.

[LambertoMI]

I know weight is not that much of an issue. I would like to hear back from Sean and discuss the FC more thouroughly.

I was leaning towards the non metal FC as it also had a CF option. So I guess that this would have some construction of ruber, titanal, and CF.

What I heard about the Virus, is that it is unbelievable in ride, free carve ability, and great for ICE and other terain. As I do not race, I do not need a super stiff board, but one that I can lay down on steep faces, on ice, and off piste on occasion.

In the past I have ridden my HEAVY FP's during my travels. Including some back country riding at Whistler, and north of 60 degree slopes and powder. It is work to move such a stiff and heavy board in those conditions. I figured todays boards would give me a nice carvable ride and the ability to be light enough to go out of bounds with. Maybe this is a pipe dream.....

I do have a soft boot set up for deep powder so this is not a boarder cross board that I am after....

[Gcarve]

Sounds like you've got some good choices, with a board from either Donek or Virus, how can you go wrong!

[Hans]

Definately a VIRUS Black Death EVO III (smaller width) or Gladiator (or Tantalus) EVO III.

[leeho730]

Hans, your opinion is too biased towards Virus.. Thus invalid! :nono: :D

I recon they are all great boards... As far as my experience tells me, both donek and virus are fantastic for icy slopes. I'm happy with both donek and virus. Sorry I have to say it's up to you! Gee, its like I have to choose between Denise Richards and Jennifer Aniston....

[Hans]

Hans, your opinion is too biased towards Virus.. Thus invalid! :nono: :D

I know. The last EVO III technology from Frank is the bomb, I can't help it :cool::eplus2::eplus2:

[Ladia]

I do not need a super stiff board, but one that I can lay down on steep faces, on ice, and off piste on occasion.


It seems to me you are talking about UFC.:biggthump

[LambertoMI]

As I ride 95% by myself, I am not sure what people would classify as UFC and FC and GS and Race.

I used to have a burton Ultra Prime. The board was great, but at 164, I used to fold the nose up on it. I think it was one of the first baords with carbon fiber in it. I rode this board everywhere, but I could not really push it do to length and soft nose.

I can lay down carves on Michigan ice and still jump off in deep powder with plates. So, a new board for me will need to match those worlds. I am afraid that a Kessler 185 race metal will br so stiff and long that I will never be able to use it for GS or high speeds. But my FP 178 is a great length, and so are my 171s. I think somewhere between those two with more carbon, titanal and so forth will bring the board to the speed demon 178 and with the fun of my 170 asym.

Suprised to see there is not many comments on the F2? Would be curious how it stacks up against the Virus.

L-

[leeho730]

Powder with plates...

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=29624

I used Virus UFC freecarve board in Japan. Nose never folded, did not sink in powder. Didn't try in trees, price too dear. Carves like crazy on icy slopes. Used with SW and it was a match made in heaven. Also has size 173.

But I've heard lately Frank's evo III boards with the new nose shape were good in powder...

[LambertoMI]

Thanks for the link to the UFC post. That is the kind of review I was looking for.

The Ultra Prime was fun in powder. But not on hardpack. I am going to see if I can catch sean this week to see what his take is as well. Aside from calling Frank, I see the Virus folks are deffinately pro virus. A ferrari is always a ferrari...

I appreciate everyone's help and insight....keep it comming

L-

[scrapster]

I've had most luck reaching Sean at Donek via phone. His wife advised after 4pm mtn time. Great guy and a master board-builder, but pretty busy.

PS- If you're looking for some dampness but wary of metal, Sean still has some of his Olympic construction cores in the shop from before metal became all the rage. (He's putting one in my new Razor.)

[LambertoMI]

What is an olympic core? i saw there were three boards, standard, olympic and carbon. What is the difference there??

[scrapster]

Sean actually has a few different cores which he pairs to specific models given their target flex and other desired characteristics.

As far as I understand, he developed the Olympic core as a way to increase dampness without employing a lot of rubber--which can affect durability. It uses a special mix of woods to reduce vibration, as the different harmonic frequencies of each wood species cancel each other out. Folks really liked their mix of quietness, dampness and pop, though the technology has been surpassed pretty thoroughly by metal. Still, it's a classic construction that probably has its place for some. It costs a few $ more than standard construction, but less than metal.

[frunobulax]

Guessing from your selection you're looking for board with more or less 18 cm waist width. So I'd say that the UFC narrow would be more suitable than the normal UFC. But keep in mind that the narrow version would probably not float in powder as good as the wide one.
The UFC is for sure the faster and more demanding board, compared to the Tantalus.
You know that there's a new Tantalus out, with a completely new shape? So the correct label would probably be "Tantalus II Evo III". I rode the new one last year, but cannot compare it to the old shape. As I was told the new shape is significantly faster, with a wider SCR. Great stuff for those who like narrow boards.

[LambertoMI]

Thanks Frunobulax,

Those are some good points about the Virus line. And yes I am after the Tant II. I think this is more towards what I am looking for. I am thinking that this is a great all mountain board, that carves like the devil himself. I have never ridden a Virus, but I hear they are catchy...:biggthump

Does anyone know what the SCR is for this board? I am guessing the nose is 22-24cm, waist is 18ish the tail might be around 19? I believe that this is also a VSR?? The site did not have many specs. Isn't the camber insane on them? I thought I read somewhere the camber is close to 3cm??!!??

Anyone confirm?

[LambertoMI]

Tantalus II Evolution III alpine carving

175 overall
22,7 nose
17,0 waist
21,0 tail
166 effective edge

Based on those calcs I come up with a 14.26m sidecut....anyone confirm this??

[Pat Donnelly]

What is your boot size? You may have to advance your angles to minimize boot drag.

Here's a review from Bola's site, but keep in mind your weight is nearly 50% greater than the writer and I would guess you may sport larger feet? You may want to consider a longer and wider board.

http://allboardssports.com/kessler-gs-coilernsr-and-virus-tantalus-ii-snowboard-review-by-rys-olsen/

[ursle]

As you have an email conversation going with frank you can ask him but we all know his answer, virus makes a continuously variable sidecut...
If you want to save time and money grab this one
http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34907&highlight=virus
but if it's gone buy directly from frank(virus,member here, cyrus the virus), faster, get exactly what you want and save a LOT of scratch.

[frunobulax]

That's true, Frank doesn't say anything about the SCR of his boards.
The Tantalus was always the allround-carver in his lineup, suitable for nearly everyone.
I have ridden the Tantalus II for a couple of hours, and I'd guess that the SCR is somewhere around 13-14 m but that's just a rough guess. It's a modern shape (some "NSR" features), not too much camber, a bit of decambered nose, variable sidecut.
I have to admit that it was not my kinda board, since I am a tall and heavy rider and prefer wider and faster boards. But the grip level is exactly what you expect of Virus boards. If you like narrow boards it could be just what you are looking for, and definitely top notch.
Virus alterntives:
If money is not important, you could also have a look at the Gladiator Zylon (same shape),
and a lot of people around here are very impressed by the new Black Death III, which is significantly narrower.
Faster: UFC narrow and Stingray.
Easier: Lightning.
Wider: UFC, Scalpel

[LambertoMI]

Thanks for the link. I spoke with Rys and he has a great board, but built for someone much lighter than me. If I was at 170 I would pick it up. :(

I ride high angles with a 27 MP. So I run 58-60 degrees depending on the board. I got into high angles and love it. Coin is not a problem if you are going for the right stuff. I really do not want to go much narrower than 18 or so. I would love to try a 15cm just for fun, but I think it will not be a great board for me to own in Michigan.

I spoke with Bola, seems like a nice guy. The costs are getting high for the tant, but is it worth twice the price of the F2?

[frunobulax]

I don't see any chance to run 58-60° on neither Tantalus (width 17) nor Silberpfeil (18). We're talking about 65-75 depending on your skills/inclination and shoetype/size.

Twice the price...what do you mean? Not enough? 1:4 would be more suitable?
You cannot compare the two.. If you're buying a Virus you pay the price and eradicate it from your memory immediately afterwards. You fall in love with it, and maybe after a couple of seasons you sell it for twice the price of a non-custom.
If it's worth it nobody can tell you because nobody has bought one for sensible reasons.

[kieran]

The costs are getting high for the tant, but is it worth twice the price of the F2?will you get twice the fun for twice the price?
do virus use metal in their boards, or is it exclusively exotic aramids these days?

[kieran]

I don't see any chance to run 58-60° on neither Tantalus (width 17) nor Silberpfeil (18). We're talking about 65-75 depending on your skills/inclination and shoetype/size.
i manage to run 60°r/65°f on a silberpfeil 172. m30 boots. pokkis' fuego alignment method. :biggthump

[frunobulax]

One of the unsolved enigmas in our sport.. how some of us can ride low angles without drag and some can't.

Talking about me: Size MP 29.5, I need 21 cm for the same angles.

One explanation could be that some (NSR) boards have a lot of taper and wider radii towards the tail.. therefore you have more trouble to run low angles on the rear foot than with classical shapes.

The Tant has some taper (specs above), more than the Silberpfeil with its more classical shape, so I'd say that on the SP which is also 1 cm wider you can run lower angles than on the Tantalus.

edit: metal, yes.

[kieran]

One of the unsolved enigmas in our sport.. how some of us can ride low angles without drag and some can't.

Talking about me: Size MP 29.5, I need 21 cm for the same angles.

One explanation could be that some (NSR) boards have a lot of taper and wider radii towards the tail.. therefore you have more trouble to run low angles on the rear foot than with classical shapes.

The Tant has some taper (specs above), more than the Silberpfeil with its more classical shape, so I'd say that on the SP which is also 1 cm wider you can run lower angles than on the Tantalus.

edit: metal, yes.yes. my f2 has a nice 12m radial sidecut. on my donek, which is 14-20m, i have pretty much the same angles, but it's 20cm wide in the middle.

[kieran]

as far as recommendations for a good board go, how about a nice carbon/kevlar build from donek? if you ask nicely, i'm sure he can build a board that will turn nicely and launch you into LEO during transitions.

oh. and make sure to get a herringbone/twill topsheet (http://bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=350457&postcount=120) for über-bling.

[LambertoMI]

pokkis' fuego alignment method - Can you explain this? I have not heard of this method....

I ride high angles, around 60, with a MP of 27. But, this is the old Burton wind/reactor boots that angle up on toe and heel. That with the race plates allow me get the board close to 90 degrees up without too much drag. Most of my boards are around 20cm waist and I have no issue with clearance. Actually, I almost have 1/2 - 3/4 clearance from the edge. I just parted with an F2 asym that had a 18.5 waist and had no issues with clearance. I won't know exaclty what I need until I drop bindings and boots on the deck.

As far as price goes, it more about what I pay out. Odds are, I will keep this board for a long time, so its more about what are you getting for your money.

For example, you buy a ferrari, its not the fastest car on the road, it may not be the best. But when you drive it, the feel is like no other. I would not mind to own a Ferrari, but I want to be sure this is the board that will feel right every time I ride it. With my small board exposure I am in very unfamiliar waters trying to figure out how to swim....

This is why I am asking so many obvious and silly questions. I am so far behind in technology and design that I am not sure where to start. If I lived in CO, this would be easy as I can go to a local shop and try all that I want.

[LambertoMI]

That is a beautiful donek! Love the weave and it looks like a carbon fiber?

[kieran]

it certainly is. as for the cost of importing a €uroboard, maybe you could take an alpine holiday, sample some f2, oxess and virus, then take one or two home with you ..

oh. fuego (http://www.extremecarving.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7172)method

[LambertoMI]

:lol: FEUGO METHOD!! Love it.....

I have debated the alpine holiday, but once you add $500 in trip costs to test a few boards, its almost better to buy one, ride it for a while, then buy another if you are unsatisfied....