Trouble switching to UPZ's?

[DiveBomber]

I just got my UPZs in, set them up and rode them today, and the boots fit fine, but something was off. I just couldnt get comfortable on the board.
Did anyone else have this issue?? Same board/set-up with my heads (bts, krypton liners) I was ripping, no problem.
With the UPZs I could never get a natural feeling on the board. Felt like my toe/rear hip was being pulled back. forcing me to open up and I couldnt square my hips (and therefore shoulders). I tried multiple settings (Cateks) and few even came close to being comfortable.
It felt like my stance wasnt wide enough, and kind of forced me to ride with my knees together, to be able to rotate, (but I felt really unbalanced)
It felt fine at home.

What am I missing here?
the 3 things that made a minor differnce
1. turning my front angle down one notch (didnt feel the way I like it but felt less like my hip was being pulled)
2. Putting the outer cant on the rear boot higher
3. a hair of toe lift on the front

I added more rear heel lift, to try and push my hip forward, but it didnt seem to help.

BTW the RC-10s felt just about the same as my heads, didnt notice much of any performance difference, so far; flex and fit were similar. (man, I really wish head would come out with a new boot for us!)

[kieran]

i read a comment by someone a while ago saying that UPZ boots had more heel lift built into them than other boots. maybe compare unbuckled foot angles on a flat surface?

[corey_dyck]

UPZs have a LOT more heel lift than Deeluxe or Head. Just look at them from the side and think about where your heels sit.

I had an easy transition from Deeluxe 700T to UPZ RC-10 - once I adjusted the liners to fit well. ;)

[0815-fahrer]

Due to the short sole, it might be that the boots are too far to the rear in the bindings. There is a small "center line" between heel and toe piece on the bottom of the boots, they should nearly match the binding middle.

Raichle / Deeluxe have that center line too.

[corey_dyck]

Bola's sarcasm aside: Note that the upper cuff/lean adjuster area sticks out further than you'd think. I was booting out the upper cuff at very high board angles when my toes and heels were centered over the edges. It's a slightly different feel than normal 'boot out' - took me a while to figure out. I now bias slightly towards the toe edge to avoid this.

[Transistor Rhythm]

Head boots are still available in Europe?


Raichle / Deeluxe have that center line too.

Had to check it to believe it, never noticed them before :) The middle of the binding should be in the middle of those two lines? I must confess I always set up my bindings just by watching how much boot out I want at the rear boot then add a little splay for the front foot, I never remember what the exact angles are, only how much boot is desireable.

[pow4ever]

Due to the short sole, it might be that the boots are too far to the rear in the bindings. There is a small "center line" between heel and toe piece on the bottom of the boots, they should nearly match the binding middle.

Raichle / Deeluxe have that center line too.

I learned somethign today!! Thanks!!

Very good to know.
--
David

[bobdea]

Thanks for pointing out basic fundamental principle of alpine setup that any proficient alpine rider should know. I think you nailed the problem.

learn more here
(http://www.allboardssports.com)

+1 but I must add that UPZ is a less user friendly boot than the other as far as getting them dialed in my experience and they are up high.

[ursle]

When setting up bindings one must use the center marks on the boots to measure distance between bindings...
I wonder what liner was in the heads, if it was intuition, there could be a bit of a difference between having a 1/2" of squishy foam underfoot vs having a nice solid platform to stand on, locked heel and no more squishiness underfoot were the big points for me when switching away from the foam liners, just sayin...
To me heads and upz's are very similar, heads need interior work to flex forward, but the spring assemblies are similar, you'd think they were almost made at the same place :cool:

[DiveBomber]

When setting up bindings one must use the center marks on the boots to measure distance between bindings...
I wonder what liner was in the heads, if it was intuition, there could be a bit of a difference between having a 1/2" of squishy foam underfoot vs having a nice solid platform to stand on, locked heel and no more squishiness underfoot were the big points for me when switching away from the foam liners, just sayin...
To me heads and upz's are very similar, heads need interior work to flex forward, but the spring assemblies are similar, you'd think they were almost made at the same place :cool:

Liners are out of Krypton Pros, with my SOLE footbeds. (i have cut the internal wings and added the BTS)

[DiveBomber]

Well I think i have it figured out.

The UPZ heel is NOT higher than other boots(at least Heads) and actually it feels like the toe on the the UPZ is higher.
I put one boot on each foot, and in the Head it feels like im standing on a slope and on the UPZ's my foot feels flat.

Now I should mention that I have a small heel wedge (for fit) under the foot bed in the rear Head. But I didnt think the difference would be so drastic.
Plus since I had assumed the UPZs were heel high, the difference would be made up.

(oh and I did adjust the bindings accordingly:rolleyes: )

[DiveBomber]

Damn, still no good. WTF is the deal??
how is it that I can feel like my stance is too narrow(21.75), and at the same time like my hips are being pulled open???

One thing Im thinking about, about the upper boot cuff. Im thinking maybe I can't rotate in the cuff.
In my heads I usually pull the tounge on the front boot to the inside (shift to the right) so I can lean into more, and can adjust my body to face forward more, while till having a more stable front foot angle.

Becuase one thing I notice , is that in the UPZs it feels like I want steeper front angle, but I know that would then make me less stable

how the heck can a boot cause this much trouble??

:(

[bjvircks]

... Note that the upper cuff/lean adjuster area sticks out further than you'd think...
I've wondered about this. If other hardboots and a UPZ all of comparable mondo were centered up using the mark each should have as their 'foot center' (boot center?) would the UPZ cuff/lean adjuster stick out any further than other boots, or other boots with BTS added?

[Ernie00]

got my upz last year and tongiht I had my first great evening with them. Took me a while to get used to them switching from deeluxe.. everyting I did didn't feel right and for some reason tonight it did. Not even sure what I did.. I didn't crank them down super tight and it felt awsome.

[DiveBomber]

I dont crank tight on them either, I'm on the first notch on the first 3 buckles, but id like to shoot the idiot that placed the 3rd buckle, I had to go to a shop and get a longer hookset, with the original one I was crushing my foot(with my foot bed in the boot)

however what I did do today (inside) is straighten the front boots upper cuff and lock it down, I think the natural lean of the boot is too forward and that was pulling my legs apart. ( at least I hope that helps)
and they I went to 22.0" stance. seems ok.

But I have to say overall, im not super enthralled with these, aside from the issues I have, I dont like the fact that you almost have to take the tounge off to pull the liners, I think the plastic toe peice sucks ass, im putting shoe goo on to make it have some traction. (why cant they make it like the burtons???)
I think the 5 buckles is a waste, and the ankle pivot should be lower, and the position of the middle buckle could be more around the ankle.
and Im starting to really not like the "shorter sole" because it now is a huge pain if i want to switch boots.

OH and I didnt think they were that stiff, my Heads with the stiffest tounges (i have 4 different ones) are stiffer


Grrr... money i could have put towards a custom prior BX

[Puddy Tat]

Funny I have a set of UPZ RTRs that I used last year for carving and AM riding. This year I bought a set of Track 225Ts for AM riding to get a softer surfier feel.

I thought the same thing but about the 225s. When I mounted up the board, with a 50/45 angles it felt like my hips were being pulled apart, and I couldn't align my body with the 225s just standing on the board on the carpet. I added a degree of inward canting to the bindings and this immediately went away. It was funny I didn't need this with the UPZs.

Perhaps the cuff canting is different between the UPZs and your other boots? If the UPZs had more outward cuff canting it could contribute to this.

Dave

[Bora20]

I dont crank tight on them either, I'm on the first notch on the first 3 buckles, but id like to shoot the idiot that placed the 3rd buckle, I had to go to a shop and get a longer hookset, with the original one I was crushing my foot(with my foot bed in the boot)



Mine were just like that. I changed the footbeds and went to a boot fitter. 30 minutes and $15 later they fit and feel like slippers.

Before I went I was on the first notch on each buckle with the 3rd buckle not done up. Now I am (in order from bottom to top) using 2,3,2,4,3 on both boots and they feel great.

I suggest you give that a try first. These are much better boots than the Burtons I was using last year.

And getting the liner out is super easy once you fold the tongue of the boot out of the way behind the cuff plastic. You can put the liner on first, they step in and flex the liner back. No issues at all.


I think I will get a thermo wrap liner for next year and see how they feel.

[DiveBomber]

I give up, its not working. :angryfire

I went one notch wider to 22.0" stance and it still feels to narrow, its not that it feels a little narrow, it feels like im riding a 17" stance, how can that be!?!?!?
I took one run and just said screw it.
What other possible difference could there be??

PS there may be a pair of barely used 29.5 Rc-10s for sale soon!

[Beckmann AG]

What other possible difference could there be??Any chance that the throttle response has changed, and your inputs have not?

[bobdea]

I give up, its not working. :angryfire

I went one notch wider to 22.0" stance and it still feels to narrow, its not that it feels a little narrow, it feels like im riding a 17" stance, how can that be!?!?!?
I took one run and just said screw it.
What other possible difference could there be??

PS there may be a pair of barely used 29.5 Rc-10s for sale soon!

did you mess with the cuff alignment at all?
the UPZs take awhile to get dialed, give it time. I had to adjust both my bindings and the alignment on the boot to make them useable

[DiveBomber]

Any chance that the throttle response has changed, and your inputs have not?

Nah, im pretty sure its all about body positioning, im having a hard time rotating my core.

[DiveBomber]

did you mess with the cuff alignment at all?
the UPZs take awhile to get dialed, give it time. I had to adjust both my bindings and the alignment on the boot to make them useable
Yes and no, I did actually "rotate" the front cuff by moving the outer pivot backwards, made no difference.

But I THINK I've narrowed it down, I tried switching my rear boots between the UPZs and heads, and for what ever reason the UPZ is making my rear leg feel like it wants to straighten. but as the same time its forcing me to ride with my knees together, which seems the opposite of what id expect.
Ive even maxed out the rear heel lift on the bindings (catek)

the boot flex seems comparable and enough.

im guessing its sorta like if you are trying to get in that "starting block position, but your heel is being held to the floor.

anyway I think this may be the issue, actually its what I thought before but the adjust ments i tried didnt seem to make much differnece

[DiveBomber]

Ok another thing I just fooled around with that seemed to make a difference:

I opened all the buckles except the very top on and the strap, and that seems to make a difference, it let me spread my knees especialy when I did both boots...

what does that say?


(these boots arent good enough to be this much trouble!)

[pow4ever]

I am having the opposite experience.

Went from

Head Stratos Pro
to
UPZ 10

Couldn't be happier(granted I only have one day on it). Didn't even mess with the boot much.

I did went from TD2.5 SI to TD3 SW.

The progressive flex of the boot make it work better for me.
It's also interesting that I feel the UPZ10 is much "softer".
I can flex the heck out of it; not like in the head where I feel I am locked in....

Sorry couldn't be of any help. Best of luck figure it out.

--
David

[John Gilmour]

...snipped

however what I did do today (inside) is straighten the front boots upper cuff and lock it down, I think the natural lean of the boot is too forward and that was pulling my legs apart. ( at least I hope that helps)
and they I went to 22.0" stance. seems ok.


That will help with overall Gilmour bias. it puts the tibia shaft more directly over the heel for more powerful pressuring.. IMHO

ymmv

[John Gilmour]

clean progressive softer flex????!!... I'm buying a set.

[DiveBomber]

I am having the opposite experience.

Went from

Head Stratos Pro
to
UPZ 10

Couldn't be happier(granted I only have one day on it). Didn't even mess with the boot much.

I did went from TD2.5 SI to TD3 SW.

The progressive flex of the boot make it work better for me.
It's also interesting that I feel the UPZ10 is much "softer".
I can flex the heck out of it; not like in the head where I feel I am locked in....

Sorry couldn't be of any help. Best of luck figure it out.

--
David
I do have the BTS on my Heads.
Ill bet you have a bit narrower stance, and are probably less affected by the differences.

[Alpinbogen]

I've been on UPZs for about 6 years. I really liked a pair of red 26M RSVs that I had, but they were a little too big. I downsized to a 25M RC10 this year for a tighter fit. I really like the boot and the super precision that the stock liner gives (zero heel lift, zero foot slop, much more control than before), but I can't stand that liner for more than 2 runs before I have to get out of the boots. So far, I've tried to make 3 liners work without success: the stock liners, new 25M red Speed liners, and my old 26M black Speed liners.

Noticing the stock liner discomfort when I bought the boots, I ordered a new pair of 25M red Speed liners, and took them straight to a bootfitter to heat mold before the season began. He said they are too high volume for the boot (they bulge from the shell somewhat), and didn't even try to heat mold them. He said to stick with the stock "racing" liners, so I took his word for it and put the new Speeds back in the box. At the time, the worst part about the stock liners was pain around my ankles, so he ground out some of the shell. (That hadn't even been an issue when I "rug" tested the boots with my old 26M black Speed liners.) He also made custom footbeds for me.

Now that the season has started, I've tried the stock liners on snow twice and have crazy pain in my arches, and something is up with my big toe that feels like it's sprained in that liner. Each time, I had to stop and throw my old 26M black Speed liners in to get through the day, which feels sloppy, but eliminates the pain. I need to do something, and I think the black Speed liners (even if got the proper size) are just too soft. I've love the have the stiffer red Speeds in there, but was told their volume would be an issue. Has anyone else used the red Speeds in UPZs?

[DiveBomber]

Ok, well I think the problem pretty much boils down to the UPZ's being more level than the heads.
I raised the heel of the catek to the point it would be unsafe to ride, as both the King pin, and rear set screws are only holding on by a couple threads. But just to get in position and see if it was the answer.

It seems like the UPZ's have approx. 3deg LESS heel height.
As I put my head boot on my front foot and the UPZ on the rear foot which has the footbed, and a 10mm dense foam heel wedge. and NOW they feel about level with each other.
SOOoooo, that would mean I need another 10mm wedge to make it like it was with the Head boot was naturally.

SHeesh.:smashfrea

any opinions on the best solution?? Because the problem is I can make it with work with the cateks (though I need to get an XL kingpin and set screws)
but other bindings wont work.

Then again how can I adjust the boot???

[zoltan]

I've love the have the stiffer red Speeds in there, but was told their volume would be an issue. Has anyone else used the red Speeds in UPZs?
If that's what you feel like you need, then why not just do it? Worst comes to worst it doesn't fit right, and you go back to having the original problem.

Forget having a shop do it, and just do it yourself at home. I've found I do much better job than the shop since I pay much closer attention to details. Here are a good set of instructions:
http://www.yyzcanuck.com/E_tech_cooking.htm

[corey_dyck]

It seems like the UPZ's have approx. 3deg LESS heel height.
Very interesting! Sorry, I was incorrect earlier.

What about a spacer placed between the baseplate and the heel block on the rear binding? Obviously you'd need longer screws.

[DiveBomber]

Very interesting! Sorry, I was incorrect earlier.

What about a spacer placed between the baseplate and the heel block on the rear binding? Obviously you'd need longer screws.

Maybe I should clarify, its actually the other way around, the UPZ's have a higher toe. SO its kind of like the difference between standing in sneakers and on your bare feet.

I actually do have a 1/4" rubber spacer on the rear intec receiver. but I have a plastic one i may switch to.

[DiveBomber]

OK well , I think im about to give up on these. I put 2 boards next to each other and then placed My head boot in the front bindning of one boards and the UPZ in the front binding of the other board. Then (with a Head boot on my rear foot) I put my front foot in the Head boot first, then as quickly as i could, pulled my foot out and put it in the upz on the other board.
Immediately noticed a difference. It was just the way the boot holds my lower leg( I think) it just holds me from rotating my waist I dont think it has to do with the flex, (at least not front to back).
It was making it hard to get low properley, I would get low but it made me open up, and screwed up my technique, and thus screwing up my heel sides, not to mention transitions were sloppy, and when it got sketchy, I felt like I didnt have near the amount of control.

I guess in a way to me they felt like i was wearing a cast, not due to the stiffness of the boot(again they didnt feel that stiff) but it was almost like not so much that I couldnt move the boot, but the boot wasnt letting me move.


Blahhh this sucks, wasted money, effort and a couple trips to the mtn..


Well, so its looking like theres going to be some White RC-10, 29.5 for sale. :(

[Flywalker]

l have only had two very short days in my 2011 RC10's so my experience is very limited. However, compared to my old Burton Reactors, something l notice is that the lateral flex of the boot is much different. l believe these boots have an asymmetric lateral flex pattern meaning that when pushing one's knees to the inside, there is a greater amount of resistance than pushing to the outside.

l'm running TD3 SW's so the lateral flex in the binding is masking this sensation somewhat. Still... l have been wondering whether messing with the boot canting would help the situation. Perhaps re-aligning the cuffs to allow more rotation...?

[BLOODTYPEZX10R]

well I would have to agree with his frustration. I spent about 6 runs yesterday trying to get set-up and at the very best is a compromise. A very uncomfortable compromise. I feel the boots are not that stiff, i get a ton of heel lift ( I can feel the liner moving up and down in the boot and I am cranked in) I went back, forward, together, apart, more angle, less angle, bla bla bla. I could not set an edge and when I did it felt wrong. I guess that is what you get after the same boots for 15 years. I really liked my Raichle boots. They were the warmest boots I have ever had even in sub 0 temps. I needed an up-grade and am confident I will get them set but was hoping it was not going to take 2 days to do it.
I don't agree that the bed is shorter though. I had to reset my bindings longer to make the fit and they are the same mondo size as my Raichles.

[zoltan]

...i get a ton of heel lift ( I can feel the liner moving up and down in the boot and I am cranked in)...I don't agree that the bed is shorter though. I had to reset my bindings longer to make the fit and they are the same mondo size as my Raichles.
It really sounds like either the Raichle boots are smaller than you think, or the UPZ boots are larger than you think.

[BLOODTYPEZX10R]

That does not explain more than one person is having troubles getting set-up. The size in comparable to the fit I feel with my old boots. Whatever; I am going to give a try again this friday.

[Ernie00]

don't give up on them. Took me a while but they do fell great. Same size for me 27 raichle and 27 UPZ.

They are COLD... I am thinking of trying them with my old raichle liner and if that works well either get a new one of dalbello.

[DiveBomber]

I have given up, maybe its my leg, maybe its the form of the boot, maybe its my style, I dont know. but it just feels wrong, and whats the point, if I ride 10X better in my old boots.
I notice there is this ON/OFF feeling on heelside turns, like as im going over the board goes from sketchy to too hard of a hook up, then im riding the tail and the transition is late, and that wont work in a race.

Im done, you can have em!

[b0ardski]

hey zx10, I'll be up friday, I'll look for ya.

Have you tried a molded liner?
I took a very well fitting stiff Nordica ski boot liner and it worked even better than my molded thermoflex.

[NateW]

I wish I had some useful insight here, but I'm just stumped. What positions are your forward lean adjusters set to? I have mine fully upright.

I :1luvu: UPZ

I went from Raichle 325/Lemans to UPZ and then bought a second pair of UPZs just in case. I use intuition liners, but it sounds like the issue here is with the boot geometry, not fit.

[LeeW]

Hmm. I have the older version of UPZ boots -- the red ones. I love them so much that I actually ski with them ALL THE TIME.

Uhm, a couple of insight that -might- be useful... when I switch to hardbooting from skiing, I leave the toe DIN on. And it does feel just -right- besides being extremely slippery with walking those around the place. It's lower. I'm able to lean forward on my Madd 158. With the hardboot toe Pads on, it feels too much of an "uppity." I like leaning foward as I charge down cranking some rails.

NOW, I do not know if it would be the same with the RC-10.

And

YES, those tongue liners are a B---H to deal with when inserting my feet in. -sigh-

[Flywalker]

l was feeling something very similar to you on my first day. l couldn't get my hip around on my heel side turn. l have just about eliminated the problem by sliding my rear binding sideways towards the toe side and then placing my toe as much on the edge as l can before boot out.

The recessed heel immediately biases the rider towards the heel edge. That little line on the bottom of my boots is way back of the center of the binding. l'm at the end of my adjustment within the bails to move my boot forward so by moving the whole binding sideways l managed to get my toe over the edge.

Seems to have done the trick.

[Skwalleur]

Interesting thread! Especially since I ordered a pair of UPZ ATB's yesterday and they will compliment (or replace?) my five year old Head Stratos Pro's.
I'll post my experiences once dialed in. ATB's are probably pretty different from the RC's though. Anyone with experience from the ATB's?

[DiveBomber]

well I think ive pretty much narrowed it down, and what it is,in my case anyway, is that the boot holds down my instep too much. Its like trying to run with out being able to lift up your heels.
maybe I have "tall" feet. I was able to slightly replicate it but tightening up the middle buckle on my Heads and though not to the same extent I did feel a similar sensation.
I guess I like to be able to stand on my toes when Im carving hard, and the UPZ's did not let me do that.

[zoltan]

Do you use footbeds?

[Skwalleur]

After a few days with my new ATB's on snow I've made some conclusions.

These new boots will evolve my riding. I never felt such "feel" for the boards compared to any boots I've ridden before (Burton Winds & Fires, Head Stratos, Stratos Pro).
The toebox was way too big for me out of the box though. An extra sole and the patches that came with the liner made things better, but I will probably have to go to a shop to make some more filling.
The ATB's are on the soft side of course, I had to struggle a bit more that I'm used to on the toeside. On the other hand my heelside was the other way around and I could angle the board and use the edges better than I've ever been able to.
Also riding switch on my #Two PB was never so easy.

[dmc]

First day out on new 2010/2011 UPZ RC-10—actually, my first day ever hardbooting period!

I was relieved to feel how roomy the toe box was. I have MP24.5 / US 7 EE wide feet and normally wear a US 8.5 or 9 street shoe to accommodate the width. My UPZ RC-10s are MP24. The wide toe/skinny heel definitely works well for my foot.

Getting the boot on and off is an absolute battle.

I can echo the sentiment above that I have been unable to center the boot on the binding (F2 INTEC Ti). With the medium F2 binding (supposedly good for MP 21.5 to 27.5) I have the heel bail adjusted all the way inboard and the boot's center marking is still a ways back. My HB experience is very limited though, so I will have to see if this becomes an issue.

So, a few questions to you UPZ owners:

- Are these Flo Liners actually heat moldable (aka Thermoflex, shove them in an oven)?

- And am I the only one that can't get the liner out without removing the tongue (and two screws)?

[Skwalleur]

I was relieved to feel how roomy the toe box was.

Getting the boot on and off is an absolute battle.



So, a few questions to you UPZ owners:

- Are these Flo Liners actually heat moldable (aka Thermoflex, shove them in an oven)?

- And am I the only one that can't get the liner out without removing the tongue (and two screws)?

That toebox was my nightmare since I have very narrow feet. I will mold new liners and see how it goes.

Actually these are the first boots I own that are easy to get in and out of and really ease to remove/insert the liners with.
Edit: Obviously the ATB and RC10 are very different concerning this.

[Flywalker]

Getting the boot on and off is an absolute battle.

I can echo the sentiment above that I have been unable to center the boot on the binding (F2 INTEC Ti). With the medium F2 binding (supposedly good for MP 21.5 to 27.5) I have the heel bail adjusted all the way inboard and the boot's center marking is still a ways back. My HB experience is very limited though, so I will have to see if this becomes an issue.

So, a few questions to you UPZ owners:

- Are these Flo Liners actually heat moldable (aka Thermoflex, shove them in an oven)?

- And am I the only one that can't get the liner out without removing the tongue (and two screws)?

First off... the boot is super easy to take off IF you unlock the rear mechanism BEFORE trying to tear the boot off your foot. Easy peazy lemon squeezy. Also... watch that the buckles don't re-fasten themselves as you are pulling off the boot.

As for the boot centering thing... forget it. Don't pay any attention to that arrow on the bottom of the boot. l tried to do that as well with my TD3 bindings and my Burton bindings and it just screwed everything up. Center your boot in your binding... meaning try to have the heel and toe bail equally adjusted. lf you want to try a toe forward bias on your back foot, move the whole binding towards the toe edge by turning the center disk sideways. l tried this and it DID help.... but l have since gone back to having my binding centered again and added a 6 degree heel lift instead. Your front foot will have a naturally occurring heel side bias anyway. l put a 3 degree toe lift on my front foot to neutralize the aggressive forward lean of the boot. Now, after 8 days my boots fit like they were built for me and perform very well.

The liners are NOT heat moldable like a Thermoflex. Just wear them around inside and they will take the shape of your foot. lf you want to speed up the process stick a hair dryer inside them for a while before putting them on but they'll get there without it. l have the same boot... anthracite RC10. They are more comfy with each day l wear them. Have patience (^_^)

[queequeg]

- Are these Flo Liners actually heat moldable (aka Thermoflex, shove them in an oven)?


Not really no, they're supposed to mold to your feet over several days of riding. I've heard of people speeding the process up with a bit blow dryer heat prior to riding. But they're not really heat moldable liners. For me they felt horrible enough on the first day that I decided to spare myself the break in period and get some thermo liners.

Regarding the difficulty you are having getting in and out: The Dalbello Gold ID liner has a satin-y material on the inside that makes slipping your foot in and out very easy. It is an awesome liner to boot. I slip on my UPZ like slippers now that I have that liner in there.



- And am I the only one that can't get the liner out without removing the tongue (and two screws)?


I didn't have that problem.

[corey_dyck]

I hate getting these boots on and off too! But they're so nice once on (for my foot shape) that it's worth it. When mine are cold (-10F and below) I just can't get them off. I sit in the lodge for a while to let them warm up, then try again. I didn't like the FLO liners either, I changed them for some Intuition Alpines that I already had.

I found a good way to remove the liners without pulling the tongue: I clip the boot into a board and stand on the board. Then pull the boot cuff mostly forwards and just a little bit upwards while wiggling side to side. It starts to walk out pretty quickly.

If you haven't already heard; apply some blue (temporary) loctite to all the screws. I also check the screws before every day of riding just in case.

[dmc]

Wow, lots of great info here.

I've also found that the included Flo Liner is quite thinly padded at the heel—right at the point where the Intec cable comes up through the pre-drilled hole.

It was creating a pressure point that became annoying after about 4-5h of continous hard riding. Despite my attempts to push it out of the way, i'm still stuck with where the cable comes up through the boot.

Anyone else have this issue? Ream the hole out perhaps? Pad the cable with something?

[Puddy Tat]

Pad the cable with something?

Pad the cable with a thermo liner. I replaced my FLOs with Deeuxe 141 themoliners. Super easy to take the boots on and off now as well.

Dave

[bobdea]

Wow, lots of great info here.

I've also found that the included Flo Liner is quite thinly padded at the heel—right at the point where the Intec cable comes up through the pre-drilled hole.

It was creating a pressure point that became annoying after about 4-5h of continous hard riding. Despite my attempts to push it out of the way, i'm still stuck with where the cable comes up through the boot.

Anyone else have this issue? Ream the hole out perhaps? Pad the cable with something?

yeah, I had to dremel a little to make the cable not hurt. be careful though there are some thin spots on that shell in that area if I remember correctly.

just a FYI the foam injection liners with the UPZs are pretty decent.

[LeGogoussier]

On the first two days with my RC10s I endured excruciating pain around the heels because the gel inside the Flo liner walls got packed at the bottom as I put the boots on. That would pinch my heels like a vise and it was evident that there was no way the gel could flow back UP against my weight and mold to my feet as they were really squished in there.

Solution: Now I put on the Flo liners first (OUTSIDE THE SHELL) then I slip my foot into the shell with the liner on. This can be done by opening the boot cuff sideways and pulling the plastic tongue OVER the cuff. It works like a charm; my boots now feel like slippers and hold my ankles just perfectly. To remove the boots I do the reverse procedure and pull my foot out WITH the liner.

I do get funny looks at times but it is a small price to pay for comfort.

[Race_Carver]

On the first two days with my RC10s I endured excruciating pain around the heels because the gel inside the Flo liner walls got packed at the bottom as I put the boots on. That would pinch my heels like a vise and it was evident that there was no way the gel could flow back UP against my weight and mold to my feet as they were really squished in there.

Solution: Now I put on the Flo liners first (OUTSIDE THE SHELL) then I slip my foot into the shell with the liner on. This can be done by opening the boot cuff sideways and pulling the plastic tongue OVER the cuff. It works like a charm; my boots now feel like slippers and hold my ankles just perfectly. To remove the boots I do the reverse procedure and pull my foot out WITH the liner.

I do get funny looks at times but it is a small price to pay for comfort.

That's what I do too. Actually, this is exactly what you need to do to get race plug ski boots on/off too, so inserting/removing the liner with your foot is really not that uncommon.

[dmc]

yeah, I had to dremel a little to make the cable not hurt. be careful though there are some thin spots on that shell in that area if I remember correctly.

Would you happen to have any photos of said modification?

I had a peek inside mine—you're right, the thinness of the shell makes me a little leery of Dremeling away.

[bobdea]

Would you happen to have any photos of said modification?

I had a peek inside mine—you're right, the thinness of the shell makes me a little leery of Dremeling away.

later today I can post a pic

[LeeW]

First off... the boot is super easy to take off IF you unlock the rear mechanism BEFORE trying to tear the boot off your foot. Easy peazy lemon squeezy.

Hmm, I think this is something I've _NOT_ done ever since I got my first red UPZ boots back in 2004. I'm gonna try this method.

[dmc]

Just resurrecting an old thread to add some more anecdotal information.

It's no secret that the RC-10 is a stiff boot. I am 175cm/65kg (5'9" 145lbs) and on cold days, the stiffness doesn't allow for very laid back riding.

So I got a set of the red tongues—apparently 100 flex index vs. the included black 110 flex.

http://i53.tinypic.com/o8f2mq.jpg

Aside from being a little funny looking, holy crap, what a huge difference! The boots are considerably easier to get on and off now. Flex in walk mode with loosened buckles seems almost soft enough to make these viable for the powder board.

I'd say these are almost mandatory for lighter weight riders.

Another issue I've been dealing with was the Intec cable pressuring my heel through the thin race-like liner. There isn't much material there in the UPZ liner, so no matter where I moved the cable, it hurt like hell after a few hours.

So following an idea I read somewhere on BOL, I put a piece of felt next to the cable. It protrudes about the same amount, but now distributes the pressure over a wider area and thus alleviates some of the concentrated pressure.

http://i53.tinypic.com/oqd25x.jpg

I can still feel the presence of the "lump" through the liner, especially when cranking the buckles down, but it's much more bearable.

[piusthedrcarve]

It seems like the UPZ's have approx. 3deg LESS heel height.
As I put my head boot on my front foot and the UPZ on the rear foot which has the footbed, and a 10mm dense foam heel wedge. and NOW they feel about level with each other.
SOOoooo, that would mean I need another 10mm wedge to make it like it was with the Head boot was naturally.

Today, I tried UPZ boots. Previously owned Raichle/Deeluxe & HSP. I usually ride 3 degree toe lift on front and 6 degree heel lift on rear with cants (for all other boots).

After reading your post last night, I took out lift/cant wedges (F2) of front binding on Madd and rode. My stance seemed little too wide (54cm) but other than that, it was right on.

For another deck, I left my normal setup alone (TD3, 3/6 lift). Couldn't dial in. Heelside was too much but couldn't do toeside like what I did on Madd 10 min. ago. I adjusted the front bindings to 3 heel lift on heel for front and left 6 degree heel lift on rear since I didn't carry 0 degree cant disk. then heelside suffered.

What's your bindings lift/cant setup on UPZ (RC-10)?

[Flywalker]

What's your bindings lift/cant setup on UPZ (RC-10)?

Burton bindings 7* wedge on the back foot flat up front with 2, 1 mm sheets of plastic under the toe block giving a slight lift. Works great. l run red tongues all the time for all conditions on the same grey boot as earlier pictured. Unlocked for pow and locked for groomed.

Perfect for me at a shade under 80kgs without gear.

[piusthedrcarve]

Burton bindings 7* wedge on the back foot flat up front with 2, 1 mm sheets of plastic under the toe block giving a slight lift. Works great. l run red tongues all the time for all conditions on the same grey boot as earlier pictured. Unlocked for pow and locked for groomed.

Perfect for me at a shade under 80kgs without gear.

Does the setup also work with other boots like Deeluxe/HSP, if you had?

[BLOODTYPEZX10R]

I must say that last year I had a very difficult time getting set up-to the point that I gave up and went back to an old board and boots (same bindings and same set on bindings) and worked my way though a few boards with my old Riachle boots. Everything was fine. I finished the season with that set up. Over the summer I has removed my bindings and on the shelf they sat until a few weeks ago. I grabbed my new board, hovered the bindings over the board and put them-right-there. It is perfect. I have never had such a good time. I hated the boots last year and was moving all over the place. I really hated my Riachle boots because in a hard carve the buckle would come undone. The stiffer UPz's are what I needed.
I wish I could say for sure what the difference was because I have made no changes to lift or cant. Initially I set the boots up on the center line of the boot and was forever changing position, angle. Set the boots up for center of the board-not center of the boot. I feel that my stance in a little closer that in past. I am 6'2' and my stance is 17.5". This past Saturday I was laying down the most extreme carves I have ever done. I know the set up with these boots can be frustrating-but there is hope.

[Flywalker]

Does the setup also work with other boots like Deeluxe/HSP, if you had?

No idea. Previous boots were Burtons and l had a 3* rear cant and no toe lift up front. My stance was also 48cm and now it's 51cm. l'm 5'10"(178cm).

[Flywalker]

Set the boots up for center of the board-not center of the boot. I feel that my stance in a little closer that in past. I am 6'2' and my stance is 17.5". This past Saturday I was laying down the most extreme carves I have ever done. I know the set up with these boots can be frustrating-but there is hope.

??????????

Dude my wife is 5'1" and her stance is 17" :eek: l am 5'10" and my stance is 20.5". You may want to look at that again. l just changed my stance this season by adding almost an inch and more rear cant and it is much better. Pay no attention whatsoever to the center marking on the boot. Center the binding on the board and center the toe/heel blocks on the binding and forget about whether or not the boot center mark lines up.

[BLOODTYPEZX10R]

17.5" center of binding to center of binding. if you are referring to me. I thought we were trying to help piusthedrcarve. Maybe that closer stance was what I needed. From last year to this I went from hating the UPZ's to liking them very much. If you want exact measurements I will get them. As I had said I have made no changes whatsoever in cant or lift from Raichle 123 to UPZ.

[piusthedrcarve]

??????????

Dude my wife is 5'1" and her stance is 17" :eek: l am 5'10" and my stance is 20.5". You may want to look at that again. l just changed my stance this season by adding almost an inch and more rear cant and it is much better. Pay no attention whatsoever to the center marking on the boot. Center the binding on the board and center the toe/heel blocks on the binding and forget about whether or not the boot center mark lines up.

As far as I know, widening stance is for riding bomber style which is critical to lower the center of mass to pressure edges. If one chooses surf style or extremecarving, widening stance doesn't help. it's preference. I do prefer bomber style and mine is at 54cm currently and happy with my stance width on most of decks but not Madd. I will shorten and see if it makes any better. As your recommendation, I will set them up and try center bindings next time and will report back to ya~.

Thanks for advice. Flywalker & BloodType

[Flywalker]

OK gotcha...

No need for exact measurements. lf that works for you then it's all good. l tried using my old stance l had with the Burton boots and my legs felt totally blocked in the UPZ's. lt may be due to being... or feeling... like there is more natural forward lean in the boot than my old Reactors. After l spread my feet and added the bigger cant everything improved.

l suppose it could be an interesting experiment to remove the cant altogether and bring my legs closer together. l'd get more flex out of the board, too.

[BLOODTYPEZX10R]

So I made some measurements just so you could make some comparisons.
Stance= 17" or 43.2cm
174 length board, Thirst 7 snowboard (I've made my own boards since 1980) been hardshelling since 1992.
164 effective edge
4.5cm set back to waist
16.7cm center of board to center of front binding
26.4cm center of board to center of rear binding
rear foot 67* rear foot heal lift 3/4" of 19mm
front foot 60* front foot toe lift 1/4" or 6mm
no cant at all on front or rear foot, when I ride I lock my front boot in the most upright position and rear foot in the forward most lean position.

I know you will get set up-I had serious doubts last season. I assure you I am having a blast now. Don't give up these boots are very good (a little cold though).
I hope these measurements will help-I think they will help me since I really have never recorded any of the particulars.