Carve

[Gecko]

I have a copy in my not so little very cold hands...After finding the things I was looking for I was assigned pack mule duty for my wife's 100yen shopping (it would take too long to explain) while waiting I noticed a Magazine shop up one escalator...I wandered to pass the time and what do I see???? One last copy of Carve Magazine on the shelf...some beautiful carving photos (I included one below). Its cool that there is a magazine like this available...even if it's in a language that I neither read nor understand...

[Gecko]

I'm gonna have my wife shoot some photos me like this

[LeeW]

Any chance I could subscribe to this particular magazine ? FWIW, Im in the USA.

[D-Sub]

that second one is badass!

and the snow in the first! hell yes:)

[Hans]

Nice action shot,
but I don't like that Albatros (arms) style. Typical Japanese,
I think.

Greets, Hans.

[D-Sub]

damn...knew someone was gonna say that.

[CarvCanada]

hehe I don't like when people try to lift off either :)

[D-Sub]

but do we have to comment each and every time?

that woman looks like she is totally in control, and making a technically sound turn

its not like she's flapping her arms around all over

oh, and btw...who says its in japan? she's certainly not japanese

[Baka Dasai]

I also like the second shot. Damn, gotta wait almost 2 months for snow here.


Originally posted by D-Sub
oh, and btw...who says its in japan? she's certainly not japanese

Really? How can you tell?

[Gecko]

It's so rare that carving would be in a magazine one would think that one could enjoy it

[thomas_m]

I was thinking the same thing. Can't be the blond hair. My wife's Japanese and her hair is purple half the time...

The day I rail a turn like that is the day I start criticising the spread arms (=probably never).

T.

[Gecko]

Can't wait for the season to begin...

On a side note there are no adds for nor is there a review of any R17's. I guess Burton has finally backed out of Alpine completely

[spy45c]

Originally posted by Hans
but I don't like that Albatros (arms) style. Typical Japanese,
I think.


Just wonder.. what's wrong for the arm style?

Spy

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Baka Dasai
I also like the second shot. Damn, gotta wait almost 2 months for snow here.



Really? How can you tell?

guess I cant, actually. doesnt her face look caucasian tho?

[tilledog]

It's the Deeluxe Indy team! Looks like summit county to me.

Davo

[tilledog]

I don't know what the hell I'm talkin' about. Too small for Co. prolly.


Blah blah blah stool blah

[stoked]

okay please post some contact info for that magazine!!

thanks

[rikytheripster]

Technically there is nothing wrong as long as the uphill hand is held high and downhill arm/hand low. It could be argued that as your arms are out you are reducing your effective mass that you are using to pressurize the edge-however this is minimal and people will argue balancve is improved with this posture.


With regards to style, thats personal, do it if you think it rocks and dont if you think it sucks, simple.

Seems to work for CMC and from what i've heard he's quite good

[Jack Michaud]

Someone please explain to me how one can reduce mass by putting your arms in a certain position. Atkins schmatkins, I'll be rich!!

[ARCrider]

if you move your arms up and down fast enough you will experience weightlessness. feathers help!!

or arms held out in glider fashion with aerofoil sleeves and go very,very fast!!

but you're right Jack, your mass still wouldn't change

[stoked]

sounds like the Red Bull air show where people fly their own way well actually they all fly the same way pretty much into the water if anyone knows what I'm talking about :)

[D-Sub]

heh. down and WET, huh!

Im still stickin to the argument that the person in the picture is in control and rockin it, and that as gecko said maybe some should be a little less analytical about things.

its badass that theres a magazine devoted to carving!

[Hans]

Originally posted by D-Sub
heh. down and WET, huh!

Im still stickin to the argument that the person in the picture is in control and rockin it, and that as gecko said maybe some should be a little less analytical about things.

its badass that theres a magazine devoted to carving!

I don't matter about the Albatros style which is shown here,
I just find it very ugly to see. Everybody his own style, push and pull with bodyrotation and arms along your body, I like the most.
Only using arms and hands to reach and straighten your body in the turn.
http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/03html/p02_03.html Nice there is a magazine addicted to carving!
Greets, Hans

[stoked]

surely the way my carving was all about I try to vary it as much as my skills permit now
but no Extremecarving like in the link picture yet :(

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Hans
I don't matter about the Albatros style which is shown here,
I just find it very ugly to see. Everybody his own style, push and pull with bodyrotation and arms along your body, I like the most.
Only using arms and hands to reach and straighten your body in the turn.
http://www.extremecarving.com/photos/03html/p02_03.html Nice there is a magazine addicted to carving!
Greets, Hans

hans

we all know what "you guys" think is "right" for carving

my point is, why do you feel it necessary to criticisize? It's not always necessary.

[stoked]

is there any 'right' carving I don't think so too

[Hans]

Originally posted by D-Sub
hans

we all know what "you guys" think is "right" for carving

my point is, why do you feel it necessary to criticisize? It's not always necessary.

Hi, D-sub

I didn't say that the style is wrong or right, I only said that I don't like this style shown at the picture. It looks just like some one is flying like an Albatros. You can see this style in many wmv.files of Japanese carvingsites. It looks very dynamic, but I don't like it. It's a very restless style, often used with body counterrotation. And you know that using bodycounterrotation is very hard to correct. Just asking ones opinion about this style, advantages - disadvantages. A forum is meant to open a discussion about a topic which intrests you or me. Meaning that you are sometimes critical about something or someone. It doesn't hurt. If there was no discussion I would be bored.

He, D-Sub ;) What are you meaning by "you guys", am I belonging to another sort of group or species, that's interesting, may be you can tell me more about this, may be in another topic.

Greets, Hans.

[D-Sub]

hans

you are missing my point entirely

my point is this:

why did you feel the need to even comment on the style? Gecko posted a couple pictures of someone riding and having fun, and your first comment was "I dont like the style"

why? why bother? no one asked if you or anyone else liked the style. I just cant understand the need to immediately criticize instead of just view. If someone said "what do you think of this style..?" then that would be different.

yes, its just me. I know.

in any case..."you guys" = EC proponents. I am in high admiration of that whole thing but there are other styles, other people who simply go out and have a blast doing it.

[Hans]

Originally posted by D-Sub
hans

you are missing my point entirely

my point is this:

why did you feel the need to even comment on the style? Gecko posted a couple pictures of someone riding and having fun, and your first comment was "I dont like the style"


My first reaction was that I liked the actionphoto, the action that was into, the freezing shot of the action. If you see a picture you like some things about it, other things you don't like. That's all what I was thinking and writing down. Because the second picture was without a comment, so I reacted on the picture just what was coming up when I saw it. No less, no more. But may be it's you who don't like people's first reactions when they saw and say things about .... What do you think of the style she is carving?
Trying to put in a discussion here, if you are interested. I am trying to use the push and pull but when I try to race I like the USbomber style a lot.

Greets, Hans.

[D-Sub]

hans, I think thats my point exactly tho...I dont have an opinion in this case. its just a picture or two, and like I said she looks like she's in control, including her arms even though they are elevated

I think the one you posted looks awesome, especially the way Fivat tucks his hand against his thigh! The person in this pic could probably do so but...I dont see it as that big of a deal

Ive seen the vids of some japanese riders, and yeah, they look like they flap their arms a lot which seems like it is a waste of motion and energy. I try to adhere to the concept of "economy of motion" in everything I do, whenever possible

It was just...in this situation...understand...I didnt see the need for critical comments. Im not trying to start a fight and neither are you, I know.

yes, the EC style is beautiful to watch, but to me the "bomber" style is more functional, so...I guess Id have a preference after all

[Neil Gendzwill]

I find keeping the hands low (like, on my thighs) is an excellent training exercise. But then, so is having them out in front of you and driving the back hand towards the nose on heelside and other such stuff. If conditions are less than perfect, I want them out in front helping me out.

[Hans]

Hi, D-sub

I had also a preference to the racing kind of style. Untill I saw the extremecarving site. The SWOARD wasn't even born yet, not even in production yet. I was just psyched and interested in the way of the physics of this style. Because I never used a recognicable style. I was always mixing things. I was always 'searching' for a physical style which feels fine and easy to use. Not a good of right style. When I learned myself the push and pull and bodyrotationstyle, it felt very comfortable after a few rides. I do some counterrotation with flapping arms now and then when I am tired at the end of the day, but I feel that this style cost me a lot of energy/strength to correct and is also very ineffective. When I think about the bodyrotationstyle everything seems to easen up. http://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html
You can even use this style in heavy conditions to keep everything under control.

Greets, Hans.

[Rodger Arnold]

Hi guys. I have been reading your comments on the carving style of the pics posted above. I think she looks great! As I'm relatively new to carving, I haven't really developed a "good style" yet. I hope to meet some of you carvers at SES05 this year and maybe you can show me first hand your preferred style. Thanks for converstation.:)

[boogieman]

i have also learnd it like that with the arms like an eagle but i keep em closer to me

the explanation of my instructor was that if you bend your upper body downhilside your center off mass does change, its not about the arms its your whole upper boddy including arms and shoulders
like if you stand up straight and you try to tuch the ground with one arm without bending forwards or backwards (then your center of gravity does change and it helpes)

he showed it to me with the arms streched to make it easy to see

[Randy S.]

In the words of this man:
http://www.courttv.com/graphics/ctv/trials/current/kingsmall.jpg
"Why can't we all just get along?"

Seriously though. Its fine to discuss and debate different styles, but why attack someone just because you don't like their style, or the way they express themselves.

I'd tend to say that you'll have an easier time controlling your edge and your carve if your shoulders are level to the snow (across the fall line), but what you do with your arms? Seems like personal style more than any definitive answer. I try to keep my hands in front of me so they don't get hooked on gates, but if the gates weren't there, would it matter? Dunno.

Yours truly,
Rodney King Salzman

[Gecko]

Originally posted by stoked
okay please post some contact info for that magazine!!

thanks

I'm sure there is some however I can't read it...there are at least two others on here that also live here in Japan...with luck one of them can read Japanese

[Ray]

I agree with Randy.

We are all doing this to have fun! Let's get along.
Everyone's style is somewhat unique.
... and so far we all got lucky to be able to choose from many different equipment options
out there, so it will (hopefully) fit or help to develop your personal style... my opinion.

[Tommy D]

Originally posted by Ray

Everyone's style is somewhat unique.


Yup.

My style is a blend of styles, resulting in what has been described as a rather fluid dynamic. I combine the style found here (http://www.extremecarving.com/tech/tech.html) with the USbomber style (Hands in front, facing tip of board). I use the EC technique of rotation for turn initiation, and the US style for control and balance to drive through the turn.

The best part about my style is adaptability; cross-over/under/through turns are not a problem, and adapting to changing conditions is a snap.

A friend of mine looks like a drunken-albatross when he rides, but it works for him, and he has just as much fun as I do.

[boogieman]

thats what its all about having fun
but on the other hand having everyone turn their head when you fly by is a pretty good feeling to and its a part of my having fun
i pay a lot of attention to style and making it look good in everything i do but thats just me,

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

Originally posted by Gecko
Can't wait for the season to begin...

On a side note there are no adds for nor is there a review of any R17's. I guess Burton has finally backed out of Alpine completely

According to KlugRiding.com there is an '05 R17..... I guess there is also a line of bindings too.

[Gecko]

however I walked through Ochanamizu/Jimbo-cho about a week ago and none of the alpine shops had R-17's. Also the R-17 website has't been updated since last year. As for what the store did have??The new F2's in force and every local board...this years Grey's are foul colored, Moss are subtle and elegant (IMHO) and Yonex boards look awesome, very FC... pictures don't do them justice.

[pokkis]

According my info atleast in Europe, one could find new this season Burton alpines.

[stoked]

Hi pokkis Burton doesn't sell alpine gear in Finland do they?

@Gecko thanks I thought there might be an email or website adress somewhere

I just noticed that at least at Bomber the F2 boards are a lot cheaper than in Europe this is a little surprising to me right now (?)

http://stoked.at/freecarving_boards.html

[pokkis]

They (or importer) dont sell anything directly, but my trusted snowboard shop informed that they could get them if i want.
I did not asked more details or sizes even i was suprised but it looks that they have made certain ammount those for sale too.
But they told that they are new ones done for this season and i believe them :D

[stoked]

that's great well maybe Burton doesn't know about this concept called marketing :)

[pokkis]

Or they dont want spoil their reputation by telling that they have also alpine stuff :D

[patmoore]

While we're on the subject of hands and criticism, I'm open to constructive criticism. I seem to always have my arms outstretched like airplane wings. I know it's not proper but I'm not sure what the ideal position is. See photo below and the little shot in my avatar. My background is gymnastics and I have a healthy respect for balance. My arms are always out when I'm doing distance rides on one of my uni's (see other photo). It's just second nature to me but I'd like to learn the proper style.

http://tinypic.com/elcuc
http://tinypic.com/eld1k
Pat
"When you're over the hill, you pick up speed..."

[Hans]

Untill two years ago I flied like an Albatros at my snowboards. Then I did some practicing on easy slopes to keep my hands and arms fully at my back. It helped me a lot to control my board and my balance better. Another practice is to keep a pole in front of you and keep it balanced at the horizon. On steeper or bumpier slopes I try to go slow at first and keep my hands and arms at my back also. When I go faster I practice to keep my arms and hands just near the side of my upperbody. I just got these tips from a snowboardinstructor of www.blue-tomato.at. at Haus im Ennstal and Schladming.

May be this helps.

Greets, Hans.

[patmoore]

I visited the site you mentioned. Everything helps.

Viele dank für die Vorschlägen!

Pat

[Jack Michaud]

Pat, I would say you should do whatever you <i>need</i> to do to maintain balance. However, you may find that you don't need to have your arms out like that. For example, It is common that many newb's think that they need to bend over at the waist and reach for the snow to maintain balance. Then they learn otherwise.

Beyond a certain point, if you are having fun and are happy with your abilities, then there's no point in fixing what isn't broken. But if you suspect you could be riding with a cleaner style, then it's time to examine yourself. I think The Norm is a good practice tool to get back to basics and realize/remember what is really necessary for carving.

I like this picture (http://bomberonline.com/JackM/jm_profile/heelside.jpg) because it's a pretty deep carve, but my upper body is pretty relaxed. In your picture, your downhill hand is really high. Believe it or not, this can throw off your balance. Even the EC guys don't do this. I prefer a "pencil pinching" technique for the east coast ice, where you try to keep your shoulders more level with the slope of the hill - it feels like you could hold a pencil in the crease that forms at your hip.
-Jack

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by patmoore
While we're on the subject of hands...

My take on the hands thing is that it isn't such a big deal - it doesn't affect balance as much as you might think. The important thing for balance is the angle of your spine/upper body.

As a drill, I like to ride easy slopes with my hands behind my back, and try and make each turn deeper than the last. It takes away reliance on the hands, and makes you realise the importance of keeping your spine/upper body upright. Look at the pic that Jack posted - his spine is vertical, but his legs are almost parallel with the snow.

[Gecko]

Originally posted by D-Sub
but do we have to comment each and every time?

that woman looks like she is totally in control, and making a technically sound turn

its not like she's flapping her arms around all over

oh, and btw...who says its in japan? she's certainly not japanese


Originally posted by Baka Dasai
I also like the second shot. Damn, gotta wait almost 2 months for snow here.



Really? How can you tell?

BTW the rider is the same in the first two photos and his name is Hiroki Tozaki...so much for the "she's not japanese"

[patmoore]

Thanks to all who have shared their expertise.

Jack, that's a great shot of you. I've always tended to angulate on both skis and board. The shot below was taken the same day at Telluride. Arms are almost identical.

http://tinypic.com/eodjb

The angulation is less pronounced in this shot at the finish of a GS course. At least the hands aren't flailing!

http://tinypic.com/eodjr

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Gecko
BTW the rider is the same in the first two photos and his name is Hiroki Tozaki...so much for the "she's not japanese"

ha! totally looks like a girl!

OK. I lose, on all counts:)

[thomas_m]

Originally posted by D-Sub
ha! totally looks like a girl!

OK. I lose, on all counts:)

Yeah, I wonder if his bros call him "hiroko" to take the piss.

T.

[ah870]

Ah, good old carve magazine (free alpen style). Published by marine planning co, ltd. once a year... started out... oh.. maybe 5 or 6 years ago? Good to see they haven't gone under. (the editer was complaining abut the lack of funds, decline of alpine population etc) If you walk in to most big book stores you can have them order if for you. Albiet it takes 1 month to do so. I have some mags from past seasons.. and I just happen to have a 2003 magazine right beside me :X (left the rest at my parents house) the magazine has a couple articles from top demonstrators.. some tips, reviews and stuff on upcoming new models... some reports from different areas. All in all a great magazine.

Now, I guess we shouldn't be doing this, but if someone wants to scan those pages I can take a shot at translating the words. Also, if theres someone with a scanner and free time I can lend my older mag's out. Also, if there are people who are interested I have a JSBA Snowboarding Instructional Video I plucked off the net. When I was back with #anime-kraze, I was going to sub that thing but alas, lack of time, motivation and just plain time meant it just sat and rotted away on my hd.

Also, a comment on that person's riding on the first riding, imo looks like she's about to lay out... it's that or its the good old "demonstrator" way of boarding... from what I rembmer when I was in Japan, that was more main-stream then the racing scene. (over extended arms, over exagerated rotation, alot of up and down movement... all in the name of demonstrating proper style better)

Anywho, that's all I have to say for now... good to finally get this post off my chest. I've been meaning to post about carve magazine for 4 seasons now :X just me being lazy and all (altho I think i did before I left Japan) -moop