USASA Alpine @ Buck

[BobD]

Is that right?

[Gerg]

On calendar for 1/29/2011, followed on 1/30/2011 by USASA Double Half-pipe competition.

[Scott.Creer]

According to this site http://www.altbikeboard.com/pointseries.asp

the half pipe event is on the 29th and the alpine is on the 30th.

[Scuff]

Yeah. You guys going to show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6q4z6xAyjs)up & throw down?

Dec 18 - SL & GS Welch Village
Dec 19 - SL & GS Welch Village
Jan 30 - SL & GS Buck Hill
Feb 26 - SL & GS Giants Ridge

Feb 13th - 2 x SBX - Hyland Hills
Feb 27th - 2 x SBX Giants Ridge

Save $10 on USASA (http://www.usasa.org/)membership by signing up before Oct 31st.

[Scott.Creer]

I signed up for USASA a few weeks ago. I will be there.

[Futahaguro]

I plan on entering a few disiplines for the first time ever. I've been boarding for a while though so I hope I don't embarass myself too much.

[Scuff]

Futahaguro: Great profile pic! See you there!

Most riders who compete at these regional events are alpine riders 16 years old and under, and
Most (usually all) of these competitors also belong to the local snowboard club "The G-Team."
Have fun - don't be embarassed. There are some wicked-fast 16 year old kids on the team. Who also train gates 4 days a week.

USASA races are divided into fairly small age brackets.
Since few adult racers show up to these events, you may be the only one in your age group = instant win.
The side-competition for 'who has the fastest run of the day' is more challenging.

Try to get out and practice some NASTAR race training, SBX or HP a few times before the competition day.

Here's some video:
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[Futahaguro]

Wee! I think this may make boarding in Minnesota kind of fun again! That video was cool, nice to see the kids doing it and the regular to fakie catch was nice! I just got a Burton Alp 169 from a dude on this forum in Duluth as well as some Stratos Pro and TD-2s from another guy on this board here in the cities. I'm not a piper but I could get 1st in my Masters class most of the time according to last years results:)

I'm stoked!

**Edit** Do they usually have the courses set up before race day for people to practice on? Even SBX? Any rules that I should watch out for that are not covered in the rules book? I read the whole thing but I just want to make sure there is nothing hiding in there, like what the helmet certification needs to be for BDX or whatever. Thanks.

[Scuff]

No. Courses are not generally "up" for the public before race day.

For the SBX races, you will get a chance to run the course immediately before the comp as part of the inspection process.

With alpine, you need to abide by the rules for side slipping/inspecting the course, as racing/carving the course before the competition starts will surely get you disqualified.

(Just follow what everyone else is doing and listen during the race meetings, and you should be fine. )

FIS and USASA both have regulations on approved helmets - For our regional races - you need to have your head protected with an appropriate snowboarding or winter sports certified helmet. A bicycle helmet or football helmet is not gonna work.
(Please refer to the rulebook (http://www.usasa.org/images/stories/rulebook/2011rulebook.pdf) under 151.02 if you have any questions)

[Scuff]

Races at Welch this weekend!

[Futahaguro]

I will definitely be at one of the days. I can't believe Welch charges $47/day though!

[Scott.Creer]

i will be there.

[Scott.Creer]

it looks like you can buy the pass for cheaper on the website.

[Futahaguro]

it looks like you can buy the pass for cheaper on the website.

Thanks! I just looked at it and you can get them for $39/day. It does not apply for the "flex" credit but I don't want a gift card anyway, I would much rather just get the dough back.

[Mr. T]

Throw up and show down!!! :D

[Corduroy Artisan]

Just booked my flight to the Nationals. $205 round trip to denver and two of my old Montana roomies reside in summit county so I got lodging covered.

I wanna know if anyone can provide some challenging training opportunities. Slalom on Chicken at Welch, or the run next to chair 9(?) at afton and maybe some high speed GS at Spirit or Giants Ridge or anywhere with some Length and speed.

Its been 13 years since I competed and it woke up a sleeping demon. I dont want the open class (yet), but I wanna destroy the 30-39 & a little training could really boost my confidence out west.

God Im looking forward to this~:D

[Futahaguro]

...but I wanna destroy the 30-39 & a little training could really boost my confidence out west.

I'm glad I'm not really trying hard to win my group because I think I would lose now:)

[Scott.Creer]

corduroy, we will set GS at Afton where ever and when ever we can get lane space. Most of the time it will probably be on 1,2, or 7. Although I would like to set on 12,16,17 as well. I am trying to get something going for Sat or Sunday morning this weekend, but am waiting for a call back. I will post on the afton thread once I know for sure.

[Call me jack]

corduroy, we will set GS at Afton where ever and when ever we can get lane space. Most of the time it will probably be on 1,2, or 7. Although I would like to set on 12,16,17 as well. I am trying to get something going for Sat or Sunday morning this weekend, but am waiting for a call back. I will post on the afton thread once I know for sure.

12 doesn't sound dangerous to you, at all?

[Scott.Creer]

not right under 12. that would be impossible.

[Scuff]

Futahaguro - Shut your mouth! You did great! (Light was better - easier to see for the Sunday race...)

Corduroy - I don't know of much other snowboard training going on in the midwest that fits your requirements of speed and length.
Buck and Spirit have NASTAR.. it's a cheap way to get some speed, but the turn shape is more like downhill. Not bad for, what, $2 a timed run.

Glad you are jazzed for Nationals! It's a good time!
Just FYI - Last year there were 8-10 men in the Masters (http://www.usasa.org/index.php?option=com_rokdownloads&view=folder&Itemid=270&id=281:group-2)30-39 division) and some of them are quite fast! You'll do fine.

"Copperopolis" is the race hill out at Copper.. It's wide enough for dual SL on skiiers right, and Dual GS on the Left.

The SL course
http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=22177&d=1269875285
is not terribly steep, but does have a drop half way through that will build speed quick. Often the knoll gets icy/rutted and sketchy.
The GS course
http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=24156&d=1290537155
has a dog-leg left which often incorporates a delay gate.

Here's a video for reference: G-Team - Meghan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5h2zjf3GE8)
SL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHPE-CsxIuo&NR=1) - skip ahead to 6:20 for the big final - G-Team Alum - Mimi
GS - Here's some Nor-Am footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6i7xGDDcYo) but its on the same run.

[Mr. T]

It's way more intimidating when you are in the start gate. :eek:

[Call me jack]

not right under 12. that would be impossible.

apparently trent can carve it...

but right side twelve actually sounds like it might be a fun place to set up gates.

[trent]

apparently trent can carve it...



only if the snow is perfect, i'm on the right board, and the stars have aligned... but i'd be skidding every turn if there were gates! :eek:

-trent

[Corduroy Artisan]

Thanks Karl, and no disrespect to the other 30-39 men. I just think with training and a more zen philosophy of riding it will be fun to compete again. It will be more fun to take home gold.

Please keep me up to date on training opportunities. I really appreciate it!

[Futahaguro]

...and no disrespect to the other 30-39 men.

:) None inferred. I'm racing for the fun of it so if I can beat some peeps, great, but I have more fun chatting with all of the racers when we are waiting for our turn! Maybe I will see you at Buck or this Sunday at Afton for training.

[Speedzilla]

Unfortunately for this mostly unemployed dude, USASA fees are too damn high. I'll be there to cheer and take photos.

[ncermak]

FIS has regulations on approved helmets, but for these usasa races you just need to have your head protected with an appropriate helmet.
A bicycle helmet or football helmet is not gonna work.

check your rulebook Carl...

[BobD]

Unfortunately for this mostly unemployed dude, USASA fees are too damn high. I'll be there to cheer and take photos.

That's how I feel. If you could just pay per event, I'm sure there would be a lot more participation.

[Futahaguro]

That's how I feel. If you could just pay per event, I'm sure there would be a lot more participation.

You do pay per event. You can be a full member for $75/year or you can pay $30 (I think) at the event if you only want to run that day. However, the $75/year isn't what gets me, it is the $25/event and you only get 2 runs per event! So for example, at Welch, if I were to buy 2 lift tickets, and race in the SL and GS on both days, it would be $39 x 2, and $25 x 4 for a total of $178 with no food and gas! Ouch! I might do a GS at Buck but mostly what I want to do is Boardercross:) It sucks that one of the races is up at Giant's Ridge though:( I like Giant's Ridge but it is 3 hours away.

**Threadjack a bit** I think they would get more participation if they would host the events at 1 place and offer discounted season passes to the 1 place. I'm sure there has been a lot of research on this by the USASA already but if they were to do that, the host "area" would get the racers buying more food and drinks because they would be there more often. I would probably be more inclined to enter more events to boot.

[Scott.Creer]

USASA is not about the adults, it is about the kids. I don't mind paying to the local USASA org. cause it allows the organization to function for the kids. And when you take into account the costs, $25 per event seems pretty reasonable to me.

I think what I would really like is for another organization or ski area to host a "for fun adult league" that would be more affordable. The problem there is lack of interest. I have set stubby courses on two separate nights now with only 2-3 people showing up (including myself), and that is totally free (other than the afton pass).

[Scuff]

check your rulebook Carl...

Rulebook checked and post (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=320158&postcount=9)updated.

Thanks Noa

Cheers,
~Karl

[Scuff]

:( I like Giant's Ridge but it is 3 hours away.


Giants Ridge is a great venue for racing Alpine and SBX as it has more vertical, and
allows for the longest courses in our series.
It's unfortunate that it is such a drive, and has such limited (and expensive) lodging.
(Tip - If you're looking to save $ - seek hotels in town -other than the main lodge.)



I think they would get more participation if they would host the events at 1 place and offer discounted season passes to the 1 place.

This is an interesting idea, but I don't know if it's a realistic option.
What you are suggesting is that one area support all 5 disciplines of the USASA events -
(currently some travel is necessary as there are only a few Halfpipes in the state - Buck, Spirit, and Giants)
Sometimes it's a scheduling issue - don't forget that
there are a couple ski-race related events out there as well.)

Traveling to other venues also allows for a variety of terrain, and in the case of SBX,
it allows for different courses and spreads out the requirements of park crews
who would be charged with constructing two or three unique courses each year.
(The Hyland crew does a good job with the SBX course -
but there's only so many features you can fit into 172' of vertical. You'll see..)

I highly encourage you to share these ideas with both the Series Director -
E-mails can be found here (http://www.usasa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=61)
And also the G-Team director, Jessica. (Currently, the overwhelming majority of USASA competitors are also members of The G-Team (http://www.thegteam.net/).)

[Futahaguro]

Yah, that all makes sense. I think the important thing is that it is designed to give the majority of racers the best experience, and I am not the demographic of the majority of the racers. It seems that I am more of a whiner :rolleyes:.

Hopefully I will quit the whining and see allz you out at Buck.

[Scuff]

It seems that I am more of a whiner :rolleyes:..

I think the term you are looking for is "Frugal" :)

Buck is going to be a fun race!!

[Scott.Creer]

Karl,

Do you have any idea out of the week of nationals which day will be the alpine events?

[Scuff]

$25 per event seems pretty reasonable to me.

The USASA competitions are currently the only outlet in our area for someone interested in snowboard racing.
It's a great organization and they do put on a quality event, but I continue to hear many riders who
stay away from racing because 'it's an expensive way just to try it out.'
And I can fully understand - I still remember my first USASA race wrought with frustration.
I had the wrong board, and with my inexperience in racing on icy rutted course conditions I got
completely trounced by the experienced racers (and most of the 12 year olds.) With limited funds, I left feeling
like I had spent my money unwisely at the rate of about $2 per competition second.
Lesson learned - This is not an inexpensive sport.



I think what I would really like is for another organization or ski area to host a "for fun adult league" that would be more affordable.

Great idea partner! I've actually heard tell that there there used to be one of them, 'round these
parts... back before I moved to Minnesota in ought one. Speedzillia and Kent know more than I 'bout
our glory days in MN carving history. What do you guys reckon? Was it Thursday nights at Buck?)
{Cowboy mode off.} *ahem* Sorry for that..

I know some guys have found inexpensive race time by independently joining an existing league,
like Ski Challenge or just planning a couple NASTAR nights a week.

Scott: I'd love to help you out, and reap the benefits of more time running gates, and help grow
interest in the sport, - but I can't justify paying for an Afton pass when I'm already out 4 times a
week coaching/riding with my Hyland/Buck passes.

Maybe we should look into starting something up with Buck?
What do we need? - Permission/Space, Gates, Panels, Drill?



The problem there is lack of interest.


I disagree.. There is loads of interest in Minnesota, but with very, very few people.
And those few are already busy pursuing racing on a more advance level.

(Big congrats to Jack and his 11th place in Slalom at the Steamboat Nor-Am, and
to former G-Team riders Garrett, Meghan and Mimi for qualifying for the Telluride World Cup.
Also congrats to Mimi who landed her first Top 30th placing at the World Cup in Austria!!)

This year we are up to 25 kids training gates on hardboots with the G-Team - which
I would bet account for (almost) every Junior/Youth alpine rider under 18 in the State.
We have Alpine Gate Training Monday, Wednesday, & Thursday evenings, and Saturday
mornings at Hyland Hills (where riders have a season's pass.)
Some kids also do freestyle and SBX training on the other days. Competitions on weekends.
The rest of the time is probably filled with homework.

We do have a larger alpine carving community in the Twin Cities than most of the midwest,
and on any given Sunday morning, we may get up to 12 adult riders out for a social
ride at Buck Hill. Of those carvers, maybe 3-5 would be interested in running gates if they
were available - and of those maybe 1-2 would be willing to actually travel (& pay) for the (Training / Race)
Not all hardbooters have BOL accounts, and even less are interested in racing.
(This poll example is not in any way official..just my Spidey-sense.)
http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/icons/spider_man.gif



I have set stubby courses on two separate nights now with only 2-3 people showing up
(including myself), and that is totally free (other than the afton pass).

That's a GREAT turnout!
(The number of participants you saw in at the Dec race did not happen overnight..
Back in 2003 we only had 3-4 kids showing up to our weekly alpine practice.)
I think it's great that you're setting up a course and getting interest without really any
team affiliation or marketing other than one website forum, and by word of mouth...
You already have 20% of your target (available) demographics.

Remember, it does take time to attract new riders to an unfamiliar niche sport. (Even with social media..)

On a side note - I would send your Afton Race Director a care package - a 6-pack, or fruit basket, or flowers,
and thank them for allowing you FREE lane space.
It's quite a bit more expensive to rent lane space at other areas - especially out West.

....Wow.. that was a lot of words....
If you got this far, I hope you find some of this.. um... helpful?..inspirational?..moderately worth while?..
or not a complete waste of time..

Peace-out Brotha!
If you need anything, you've got my e-mail.
Hope to see you rippin it up out at Buck on the 29th.
Zoom!

[Scuff]

Karl,
Do you have any idea out of the week of nationals which day will be the alpine events?

There are all 5 disciplines (SL, GS, SBX, HP, SS) competing each day.
So every day is alpine day!!! :)
Sorry man.. no.. I don't yet know which will be YOUR comp days.

All of the many age groups are categorized into 5 big competition groups and these groups are scheduled to rotate across each discipline venue each day.
(Some riders qualify and compete in EVERY single event.)
You may compete two days in a row, or the first, and last days of the week.

(Check out the 2010 schedule, start lists and Results on the USASA site - it will make more sense..)

These 5 competition groups (consisting of various age groups) vary a bit, and will probably be decided based on # of riders who qualify, and actually register to attend nationals from each region... It may be a while for all of that to get sorted out.

[Scott.Creer]

thanks Karl. Michelle and I are using nationals as an excuse to go to CO (I assume I qualify as I was the only guy in my age group). But we were hoping to be able to plan it a little better and spend some time not at Copper, and limit the time needed to take off of work.

Also, I think you guys do an amazing job with the G-Team Kids. My statement about interest was in regards to the adults. I would love to be wrong about that though.


maybe 3-5 would be interested in running gates if they
were available - and of those maybe 1-2 would be willing to actually travel (& pay) for the (Training / Race)
Not all hardbooters have BOL accounts, and even less are interested in racing.

I think your spidey sense is right.

I would buy a pass anywhere if they had a once a week adult alpine race league.

[Speedzilla]

Karl mentioned last night that the race was going to be on Warner's Way and I did confirm that. Should be interesting and will make for a longer run. The trick will be to keep the speed from the steep part of the hill through the whole run.

Wish I could be there!

[Scuff]

Event Update -
Just got word from the USASA event director that the alpine
events will be starting from the ramp on Olympic Dreams, then passing onto Warners Way. (attached image)

The direction change will be a great opportunity for incorporating a delay gate into the course.
Will be fun for the spectators - as they seldom get a chance to see both the competitor's starting gate, and finish corral.

[ncermak]

wow...thats a big hill!

[Scott.Creer]

wow...thats a big hill!

It is no mighty Bousquet Noah, but it holds its own.

[thebionicman]

Glad to hear you are getting the start from Olympic. A full run down Warners would not be fun for racing on. I'll be out rooting everyone on!

[Scott.Creer]

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[Scott.Creer]

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[Scuff]

Great vids Scott - Thanks for posting!

One of our young racers asked me -
"Karl - Did you see that guy out freecarving with full face helmet? ....He's a really good!"

[Speedzilla]

"Karl - Did you see that guy out freecarving with full face helmet? ....He's a really good!"

The Bionic Man was seriously ripping as well, could have been him?

[bobble]

The Bionic Man was seriously ripping as well, could have been him?

nice picture! :biggthump

should look good in the 2011/12 buck hill brochure.

[trent]

whoa! holy smokes erik!! :biggthump great shot dave!

i'm sure you crashed right after though... as it seemed at MES that you'd taken over the camera curse from bob! ;)

-trent

[thebionicman]

Wow Dave great shot!! Trent the curse is only there when you are around :freak3:

Scott and I had a great time ripping that line below the chair.

[Speedzilla]

The pics from the races are online at http://buckhill.smugmug.com

I've got a few of Erik and Scott that I took while walking up the hill, I'll get around to posting them soon.

[Scuff]

Yeah - they were talking about Erick.

Sweet Photos Dave!! Thanks much!!
(Glad Ma Nature could provide some light)

[Scott.Creer]

Scott and I had a great time ripping that line below the chair.

Yeah that run was awesome, even after there were some gates set on it. I have to say I was impressed for my first time at Buck. You all will have to let me know when you are going to do the carving cup. I would love another excuse to ride Buck with you all.

[trent]

The pics from the races are online at http://buckhill.smugmug.com

great picts in there dave! some good ones from the half pipe too.

i see "coach joe" has had a fashion influence on the g-team kids. ;)