OT. Engagement ring cost and balance in life

[C5 Golfer]

I was wondering how y'all feel about an engagement ring cost -- like 10,000 to 25,000 bucks and we buy this showing our love and giving it to her and we get nothing in monetary value in return. If she is working why can't we ask for a golf club membership or car or something.. why can't we get equal treatment here specially if she works and makes good money. What is the deal here, can it ever change?

I'd be willing to bet if we as men asked for something in return of equal value there would be less marriages. :D :D

[knoch]

it's just like, the final bribe, you might think they have something to gain from marriage, but do they?

[Randy S.]

Originally posted by C5 Golfer


I'd be willing to bet if we as men asked for something in return of equal value there would be less marriages. :D :D

And way fewer divorces!

[Art]

AAAAHHHHH the sanctity of mariage.

[D-Sub]

**** like that is ridiculous. $10k? $25k? more?

man...Im lucky in a lot of ways to have the girl I do

[ncermak]

don't worry D -

she'll want one some day too...they always do

[fishrising]

Some guys I know, have been lucky enough to recieve a watch from their future wives...sometimes in return for the ring, and sometimes as a wedding gift...these have ranged from $900 to over $10k...

Rolex
Cartier
Baume & Mercier
Tags
Patek Philippe

All my wife gave me was her unconditional love, and now a beautiful baby girl! I don't need anything more...it's funny how life changes after getting married, and then it changes again with the first child...changes for the better that is...

[ARCrider]

I'm very happy with my wife's priorities. Her "jewels" are made of titanium, scandium, carbon fibre or some other exotic material.

20yrs married

I spent more money on her windsurfing gear than an engagement ring 20+ yrs ago.

perhaps that set precedent
We both enjoy using our toys not wearing them.

[Enzo]

Two words.....Cubic Zirconium!!

Just kidding. :)

Shop online at bluenile.com. You'll get more for your money. At the local jewelery store, my wife's diamond and wedding band both appraised for more than double what I originally paid for online at bluenile.

The way I look at it, over the years I've definitely spent about as much money on toys...snowboards, stereo & pc equipment, and other misc. gadgets. So we're even and both very happy.

C5...you should bump up that engagement ring price to $50k and try to squeak out a new C6 in the deal. :D

nzo

[Erik J]

It's a shiny frickin rock. I was amazed at the effort that the whole diamond industry goes through to make you believe that diamonds really are the most amazing thing in the world. It made me sick.
I'm very lucky to be with my wife - she's not into the whole big "rock" on her finger. I got her one anyway out of tradition. She'd rather get a new board or go on a trip somewhere - or just spend the money on something useful.
I like the gift in return idea, though - down payment on a new motorcycle would be cool.

[Fleaman]

I am the real lucky one here, I discussed this with my wife before we got married, she doesnt wear much jewelery, so we skipped on the engagement ring and bought a nice custom wedding ring for around 600 (CND). Her uncle is a goldsmith, so it was a sweet deal. I didn't even get a wedding band because I cannot wear rings at work (Powerlineman) and never have worn anything on my fingers. We feel that rings and such are superficial and do not bind the marriage, its trust and loyalty and a healthy amount of sex :D . Plus we saved lots of money for free beer at the wedding!

[Mike T]

I bought my wife an engagement ring, actually we picked it out together. We were both still paying off college loans and she was about to go to grad school, so she had a complete and total understanding that if I bought her an expensive ring, it was goingto have a very direct impact on both of our lives for the next few years.

So I think we spent about 3 grand, which was pushing the limits of what I could afford at the time.

Now we talk about selling it, because neither of us wear our wedding bands and she doesn't wear her engagement ring. Well, except for certain dress-up events. Neither of us like having rings on our fingers and she gets hit on my more sleezy guys with her wedding jewelry than without it... so why bother?

In any case, my salary wound up paying off all of her student loans in addition to all of mine, so she scored well in that regard... and oh yeah, half the family quiver is boards that are too small for me :D

[Jack Michaud]

Wow. I bought my bride a beautiful ring, but spent a fraction of that. She gave me a nice Tag-Heuer as a wedding present. I love it, even though it cost a fraction of her ring.

What is the deal if you get divorced? Can you demand the ring back??

My wife and I look at it as an investment, and as a bit of an insurance policy. Unlike any toy, it will never lose its value, and may actually increase. We can hock it at any time if we really need to. If we never have to do that, we can give it to our grandchild someday. In those senses, it's anything but a waste.

[Tommy D]

Originally posted by fishrising
Some guys I know, have been lucky enough to recieve a watch from their future wives...sometimes in return for the ring, and sometimes as a wedding gift...these have ranged from $900 to over $10k...

Rolex
Cartier
Baume & Mercier
Tags
Patek Philippe


I got a TAG for xmas from my girlfriend, but there was no proposal attached, so I'm in the clear! :D

[Neil Gendzwill]

25K???? And here I thought people went overboard with the "two month's salary" guideline. Unless that really is two month's salary for you, in which case can I be your special friend?

I spent more like two week's salary, and she thought it was great, but then she never liked the big rocks anyways.

[Derf]

My girlfriend is not into jewelry, and the little she has is the cheap kind because sometimes, she loses some. If I spent money on an expensive ring, I think she would get mad at me for waisting money on something so futile. So lucky me. Unlucky me though because in the same line, I don't spend much on boarding equipment. Bottom line: I'm happy with what I have and with the girl I am with.

Derf

[bumpyride]

I've always absolutly hated the Diamond Industry and all they stand for. The fact that so much of it relates to materialsim and much of it involves human suffering and makes the symbol of wealth the symbol of commitment. If you have to place the value of a relationship on a baubble that says: "Look at how much a man is willing to pay for me" that relationship could be (and I'm not saying for sure) off to a rocky start (pun intended). I'm surprised the Feminist movement did not take issue with the idea that it could be construed as "Look how much my Hooker is worth"

I can't quite equate the worth of a rock with love, and all the things that go with it. Someone told me that when a woman is young and has the beauty of youth, that would carry her over, but when she starts to age she needed jewelry to maintain her self image of beauty. This in turn leads to the whole of advertising and its persistant goal of making women and men feeling inadequate. Women with aging and makeup, wrinkle remover, and diamonds, and men with Viagra and supercharged vehicles.

Don't you think that the perfect advertising partnership would be Viagra and Hummer commercials. Think of the possibilites? A guy driving with his symbol of his manhood and a pill to make it a reality.

And with all that in mind, I took her to the jewelry store and let her pick out her own ring after having looked at diamonds for days, and when it went on her finger she stood in the middle of the store and cried in front of everyone, without any regards of being embarrassed. It made her that happy.

With that, I guess the crap that I got from everyone for breaking with my views, was worth it. She picked out the one that she thought looked the best on her hand, not the largest one.

We're both over 50.

[joecarve]

from this day on
my lovely dear
i prove my love
with outdoor gear

those raichle boots
and bomber plates
you wear for our
alpine dates

a CF rig
with x-ply sail
i'll gladly buy
for stronger gale

all to lead
a vig'rous life
come play with me
and be my wife

[thomas_m]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
If we never have to do that, we can give it to our grandchild someday. In those senses, it's anything but a waste.

Yeah! My wife wears my grandmother's wedding set that my mother passed on to us when we got married. No way we would have been able to afford anything like it, then or now. We basically only wear our wedding rings when dressed up for some occassion - she's afraid of losing her's due to the $$ and sentimental value, I just hate wearing rings...

T.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by joecarve
from this day on
my lovely dear
i prove my love
with outdoor gear

those raichle boots
and bomber plates
you wear for our
alpine dates

a CF rig
with x-ply sail
i'll gladly buy
for stronger gale

all to lead
a vig'rous life
come play with me
and be my wife

nice one, Joe

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by bumpyride
much of it involves human suffering and makes the symbol of wealth the symbol of commitment.

this is the thing that NO ONE ever takes into consideration. Hell, with any product, whatsoever, especially in america

good point, bumpyride.

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by Fleaman
We feel that rings and such are superficial and do not bind the marriage

I'd go one further and say that a marriage certificate is superficial and doesn't bind the relationship.

[C5 Golfer]

Originally posted by Enzo
C5...you should bump up that engagement ring price to $50k and try to squeak out a new C6 in the deal. :D

nzo
Enzo i like the way you think... a 2006 model is already in my plans. Don't think it is a good idea to buy the first model year. My girlfriend wants my red C5 when I buy the C6. I do not think it fits her finger. .:D :D

Re: the other posts.. I am so suprised with the feedback... I am impressed with all the positive comments about their wives. Would it not make a great show like an Ophra W show to have us on there. Common interest plus everyone loves their wives/girlfriends.
It does make sense to divert the ring $$$ into a house or 401(k) and throttle back on the cost of the ring.

Bumpyride-- I cry out in joy too if my girlfriend took me to the Chevy dealer - her jewelry store equiv. - and let me get fitted for a C6 and bought it for me.

[kjl]

Originally posted by Enzo
Two words.....Cubic Zirconium!!

Just kidding.

No... you really should buy cubic zirconium :)

The diamond industry is one of those really, really evil, things in this world. Supposedly 15% of the diamonds in the US are blood diamonds or conflict diamonds (diamonds mined and sold to back insurgent/rebel war efforts). In addition, the prices of diamonds are basically being illegally manipulated by the De Beers company, who essentially have a monopoly on the market and keep supplies low to keep the price artificially high.

And before you say that the price is all worth it since the symbol of the diamond is your everlasting love... understand that the idea that diamonds==everlasting, true love was essentially the result of a marketing campaign in the 30s by, you guessed it, De Beers.

Supposedly De Beers no longer sells blood diamonds, so if you buy a diamond here, you are either paying a hugely inflated price to the company that has violated all sorts of antitrust laws to inflate that price, or you may be funding truly cruel wars in Africa.

See: The Straight Dope on diamond prices (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040903.html)
and: De Beers entry in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers)
and: Blood Diamond entry in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_diamond)
and: Revolutionary United Front entry in wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_United_Front)

Heh, I feel a little like Debbie Downer, but really... buy anything but a diamond :) Cubic Zirconium will do, or those artificial diamonds made from real carbon (indistinguishable from real diamonds... except that the artificial ones have fewer imperfections...) :p

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by Baka Dasai
I'd go one further and say that a marriage certificate is superficial and doesn't bind the relationship.

You're right, a marriage certificate alone does not, however having your wedding witnessed by the people you love and care about does.

[C5 Golfer]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
You're right, a marriage certificate alone does not, however having your wedding witnessed by the people you love and care about does.

Jack, one of the few times I have to disagree with you. In my opinion it comes down to what the word commitment means to the husband and wife. That begins with how each one was broght up and thus defining the meaning of commitment. I know some guys who even if it was witnessed by 100 of thier friends he'd turn his back in a heartbeat if there was something better in that moment. :(

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Baka Dasai
I'd go one further and say that a marriage certificate is superficial and doesn't bind the relationship.
It may be superficial, but it's a commitment with legal implications. But to me the real commitment is having kids together. I think you need to take a harder look at your relationship before taking that plunge than when you decide to get married. Splitting up without kids is tough, but you're both adults, you'll deal. Splitting up with kids is a whole different ball game. I've got friends in their 40s still carrying baggage from their parents' divorces when they were 8 or 10.

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by C5 Golfer
Jack, one of the few times I have to disagree with you. In my opinion it comes down to what the word commitment means to the husband and wife. That begins with how each one was broght up and thus defining the meaning of commitment. I know some guys who even if it was witnessed by 100 of thier friends he'd turn his back in a heartbeat if there was something better in that moment. :(

No, I agree, but I would argue those guys either don't really care that much about the people around them and their blessing, or they aren't really committed to the woman and are just going through the motions.

I think the difference is that when your event is witnessed and celebrated by everyone you care about, it can simply help make it more real and binding for you if you think it does. Tree falling in the forest type thing. This applies to many events - graduations, awards, sports, etc.

If you don't care about anybody witnessing or recognizing or blessing your commitment, then yeah, may as well do it in city hall by yourself. Which only has meaning if you give it meaning. Like Baka, I think it's pretty pointless, aside from securing whatever legal rights married people have for yourself if you want them. Chances are, if you don't care about having your loved ones witnessing your commitment, then you are truly an island and you don't care about the state witnessing it either.

Personally I don't believe anyone is an island, at least not by choice. If you don't want your loved ones witnessing your marriage, I'd bet you're not that sure about the commitment.

And like Neil says, the even-more-real binding moment is having a child together. Before that point, there are really no major consequences to divorce. After a baby, you are in each other's lives forever regardless of divorce, unless you're total scum.

[Michelle]

Congratulations! You boys have succesfully brought up a subject totally unrelated to snowboarding, and somehow surround it by snowboarding and cars.... I guess women love men because we are so different.

As a female reading all of this talk, I have to say that all women/men are different and that's what makes the world go round. I personally feel that an engagement ring is a Traditional Symbol of a commitment the man gives the women to say he is married to her, and now they will spend this time planning their big celebration. Whether you agree with this or have it as part of your life is up to you, but traditionally that is what it means.

I would much rather have a house or a dependable car than a ring on my finger, but that's just me, I don't feel as though I am very materiialistic. However, the ring is a GIFT from one person to another, and just as accepting any gift you must respect the giver and their decision to buy it, and give it to you. If you know this person well enough to accept their gift, they should know you well enough to buy you a gift you will like, use, and appreciate. It's all about the commitment in your heart, and you can have a ring, car, house, even marriage but if you don't have that you have nothing. I know lots of people who aren't married, but are committed to each other for many years, and people who are married for a few months and cheat, lie, just being asses. We all know what money and material things do to people, just look at any of our Hollywood's finest.

So as a female, it's nice to be surprised by the ring, and even more surprised by the "question", but any gift would suffice (your love and commitment can be here instead of something you physically buy) here as long as it is from the heart, and you mean it.

[Ray]

Michelle, I like your view of this a lot!

Another interesting point is that this typical engagement ring thing, is mostly common here in the US. In Germany, where my wife and I (am married over 16 years now) from, nobody of the regular people would even think about to buy a ring of the value of three monthly salaries (as nicely advertised)! This has absolutely nothing to do with money, but just with a tradition more common in Europe. The exchange of a plain wedding/engagement band does at the work. No major diamond ring, no disappointment about a diamond maybe to small... Sure, if you want to buy your wife some nice jewelry, feel free anytime. I guess no wife would object. There are many opportunities to do so. Anniversary, Birthday, maybe her first child, or maybe just a regular day during the week.
Love does not know money, nor can money/jewelry buy Love.

But one thing I have to say, very well done by the industry...;)

[D-Sub]

if I ever get married Im just gonna get a simple but sleek lookin platinum band for me and my woman. maybe engraved with some sort of celtic pattern to symbolize the interleaving of our lives.

diamonds are a joke. sorry, but its true. just another marketing ploy bought hook line and sinker.

the symbolism of the ring, though...I think that means something

[Michelle]

My Bavarian friend just got engaged, and I had to coach him on the whole engagement ring procedure. He had never heard of this! The biggest thing is that he is marrying a Southern girl, and they are all about showing it off (I am also Southern, so I have LOTS of room to talk! - no recourse please!). I told him the 2 things she will be asked is
1. How did he propose?
2. Let me see the ring!

As I said, every woman is different and I am proof. A Cajun girl who couldn't care less about jewlery and materialistic foofy stuff.

I agree with D-Sub, the symbolism of the ring is priceless (as well as the question - asking someone to spend the rest of their life with you is HUGE), but I could never wear a huge thing on my hand. It puts a damper on wearing gloves (snowboarding, biking, weight lifting, dog sledding, etc......). Some things have to be sacrificed, and I would be happy to have it be the rings!

[bschurman]

Originally posted by D-Sub


the symbolism of the ring, though...I think that means something

Yea, the worlds smallest pair of handcuffs :D

I kid, I kid.

Seriously though, it's the most fun you never want to have again!

Alright, I'll stop.

I love my wife and marriage is great and I also didn't need to buy any diamonds for her. Just a <a href ="http://www.hammondcastle.org/">castle</a> to get married in!

->Ben

[D-Sub]

heh. a cynic!

yeah...the money thing...I just dont get that part. again, Im lucky to have the girl Im with for many of these reasons. She's definitely not materialistic.

I have to wonder...for instance...Michelles friend's woman...if he didnt buy her the right ring...would she not marry? not be happy?

ick.

[Aisling]

some people want diamond rings
some just want everything
but everything means nothin
if i ain't got you


;)


that's how i feel. in the right relationship, if the guy asked me to marry him and handed me a lifesaver candy as a ring i'd be happy

[joecarve]

Nothing says "I love you" like diamonds (http://www.dmtsharp.com/products/ski.htm) ...

:D

[johann]

A couple years ago some friends at work were talking about the whole engagment ring thing. One of them was asking about what happens to the ring if the engagemnt is broken off.

THe one guy said he had researched that a bunch. Basically according to the laws that he had looked up, if one performs the engagment on a holiday, like x-mas or a birthday or whatever, the ring can be considered a gift/present, and if things are broken off, the girl gets to keep the ring. However, if the act is performed not on a holiday, so the ring can't be considered a gift, its considered part of a binding contract, so if things don't work out, the contract is broken and the man gets the ring back.

Moral of the story is, don't propose on a holiday, even though it could be considered more romantic.

[Michelle]

That's BS. The ring is a gift, no matter who gives it to whom. Would you feel the same if the girl gave you a car? or Watch? It's a gift, the receiver gets to keep it. The contract is binding when you sign the marriage certificate.

[Tommy D]

Originally posted by bschurman
Yea, the worlds smallest pair of handcuffs :D



I was thinking along the lines of 'the worlds smallest dog collar ...' but handcuffs is another good analogy. Kinky too. :p

[Aisling]

Originally posted by Michelle
That's BS. The ring is a gift, no matter who gives it to whom. Would you feel the same if the girl gave you a car? or Watch? It's a gift, the receiver gets to keep it. The contract is binding when you sign the marriage certificate.


hm i think that if you're not getting married you should give the ring back. and if by chance you gave him a car as an engagement present, you get that back :p

[C5 Golfer]

Originally posted by Aisling
hm i think that if you're not getting married you should give the ring back. and if by chance you gave him a car as an engagement present, you get that back :p

I have to agree with Michelle here.. you do not need to or should give any gift back. maybe the only reason a ring should be given back is a situation where a woman only said yes to get the ring and then a few days later told him to take a hike. But good luck on that one since her reason was to con him out of a ring.

[Michelle]

Personally, I wouldn't want to keep the ring unless he was a total idiot and cheated on me, or tried to kill me or something. Then I'd be taking a lot more than the ring ;) I would probably give it back if the wedding was called off, but I don't feel as if it should be EXPECTED to be given back (is that correct English?). If it's a gift, you give it to the person because you want them to have it, not with conditions on it. Is it the same for Christmas or Birthday presents? Where do you draw the line?

[garyj]

Michelle for President! If only more females had the same character. I am lucky to have sharred the last 16+ years with a gal who comes from the same camp (characterwise). Additionally she is an awsome,wife, mom, loves to board, rarely hastles about surf time, and she just gave me Subaru WRX STi. Now I carve the commute to work. Life is good and is getting better with Mammoth opening this week. :D