Skwal riders?

[mikel45]

Any skwal riders here to start discussion?

[skwalann]

There are a few of us with a few screws loose, a few cards short of a full deck.... oh wait, that wasn't the question.

Yeah, there are some skwal riders here :eplus2:

[tufty]

You'll get more mileage at http://skwalzone.org/forums3/index.php and http://www.skwalzone.org/technique1.php, I suspect. you might want some translation via google, a lot of the posts are in French

[skwalann]

I'd just ask and see if we can steer you in the wrong direction :eek: eerrrrrrr, I mean, right direction.

[wantok]

Still figuring things out myself. Depends on your question,...

[mikel45]

Great .... here are a few questions for starters:

- BTS system on boots, is it also advantageous for skwaling?
- skwal board limited to groomed slopes, true / false?
- what is approx. binding distance between front foot and back?

[Steve Prokopiw]

I had one long ago(a Lacroix 180) that I rode all over Copper mountain when I worked there.I jumped it off cornices,spun 3's on it...I did not ride it backwards much but a turned up tail would have made that more possible:)

[mikel45]

entertaining the idea of mounting skiboard bindings on regular parabolic ski and / or snowboard - how crazy is that?

[tufty]

- BTS system on boots, is it also advantageous for skwaling?
Dunno. RAB doesn't seem to hurt, but doesn't help much either.

- skwal board limited to groomed slopes, true / false?
false. Some skwals ride better offpiste and in the crud, though.

- what is approx. binding distance between front foot and back?
4cm (about an inch and three quarters) rear toe to front heel.

[skwalann]

entertaining the idea of mounting skiboard bindings on regular parabolic ski and / or snowboard - how crazy is that?

VERY... I seriously doubt that those options would be stiff enough.

My skwal eats the crud and lumpy runs for a late afternoon snack... It also tears the groom up too.

BTS?!? I didn't like it on my boots, but that was on my boards, not the skwal... so I don't know.

[wantok]

I didn't notice any advantage with the BTS on skwal. What was good was trying downhill boots which were more responsive with greater edging power. It wasn't weird like using them on an alpine board.

I find the Volkl and mPride too stiff off the groomers. In powder I eventually nose down and get launched, but they are great in corn snow.

39cm (15 1/4 to 15 1/2 inches) between binding centres. Much closer is the norm, which I will try. The Volkl came mounted (no inserts) and I am set up the same on the mPride until I get used to it.

[mikel45]

http://i47.tinypic.com/28iyftc.jpg

I'm still thinking about mounting these bindings on 193 cm twin-tip freestyle ski. Not so much to do carving, but to start to get the feel of skiing on one single board. A proper skwal and binding are planned for the future. Anyways, any suggestions how to position the bindings on the board. I do have a "centre of sidecut" marking on the ski. Should I position the binding equally on either side of this line or position my body centre of gravity?

by-the-way, thanks for all the great input

[wantok]

Not a bad idea. Mine are equally spaced from the midpoint. You might want to glue your binding screws in since they will likely be outside any binding plate reinforcement. You could also drill through and put inserts in more than one position. What are the bindings?

[tufty]

Oddly enough, I was thinking along the same lines (just for laffs); I have a bunch of hard, hard, hard skis lying about that I never use. Unfortunately, they are also old, and have sidecuts in the 50-70m range, so that plan's kiboshed.

[mikel45]

you might want to glue your binding screws in since they will likely be outside any binding plate reinforcement. You could also drill through and put inserts in more than one position. What are the bindings?

Whoa ..... thanks for the heads up Wantok. It was just last night that I observed the plate under the base (lighting was just right), thing was I couldn't figure it's purpose. You're right on, inserts would be placed outside of plate. You just saved me some headache or worst. Thanks again.

[mikel45]

What are the bindings?

The bindings I savaged off a pair of short skiboards (skate ski). I was using my Raichle flexon comp ski boots while attempting to carve on these skiboards.

[mikel45]

Gee, I think these binding might be early 90's "Cateks". They were supplying Jason Levinthal's "Line" boards back then. Which by the way are the skis I'm thinking of using as a skwal – a pair of "Line" 193cm Ostness Dragon. Probably one of the first twin tip ski ever on the market.

[mikel45]

Ostness Dragon

Dimensions: 193cm, 110-76-101

[photodad2001]

Take this to "Off-Topic".

This is a snowboard forum.

Not to be a Dic% but Snowman made me do it. (sorry I've had a few)

[Alaskan Rover]

Ummm....yeah. I DO have a question. A very simple one, at that:

What the heck is a "Skwal"??? I've never heard of it...not that that means anything...but seriously, what the dickens is it???

From the name alone, I picture in my mind some sort of mono-ski with a swallow tail ("Sk" + "wal" )...but I'm sure that can't be right. Is it like some new fangled "Snurfer" except with a binding??? I have never even seen a picture of one. What is it....please....the suspense is killing me!!

Gravity IS Life.

[mikel45]

re: What the heck is a "Skwal"?

Nice photo & skwal description on the alpine carving website:
http://www.alpinecarving.com/board_models.html#skwal

[mikel45]

Take this to "Off-Topic".This is a snowboard forum.

Respectfully, this thread doesn't seem to be "off-topic" – presently a few of us are discussing alpine carving using hardboots on a skwal board. I'm assuming you are taking offence to the mention of the Ostness Dragon ski. An interesting factoid about this ski is that it contains the best assets of a snowboard. Equal height tip and tail, center mounting, symmetric forgiving flex, deep sidecut and even uses snowboard dimensions. Kind of sounds like the characteristics of a skwal (http://www.alpinecarving.com/board_models.html#skwal) to me.

[photodad2001]

Respectfully, this thread doesn't seem to be "off-topic" – presently a few of us are discussing alpine carving using hardboots on a skwal board. I'm assuming you are taking offence to the mention of the Ostness Dragon ski. An interesting factoid about this board is that it contains the best assets of a snowboard. Equal height tip and tail, center mounting, symmetric forgiving flex, deep sidecut and even use snowboard dimensions. Kind of sounds like the characteristics of a skwal (http://www.alpinecarving.com/board_models.html#skwal) to me. I have my fingers crossed that there will still be decent snow here next week [March break] for planned trip. Glad to hear snowman is still with ya – raise another!

Sorry, and I do agree this topic is not "OT". Actually I was a bit pissed about another thread after getting back from the bar last night and took it out on here. Others would argue that SB carving is "OT" and I was trying to bring the attention that this is a carving forum and gear doesn't change that unless for somereason you are on a Soft setup. Sorry for the unexpected surprise. But while I am here and it is up for discussion. The fact that the "hardboot" seems to over-ride and even negate the presence of a board according to those who've been hear longer. I'm a bit confused when it comes to the "mission statement" because this should be (just by on slope percentages and what the statement claims) primarily a skiers forum since of the hardboot community skiers way out number boarders.

I personally don't consider a skwal to be a snowboard (or mono ski) anymore than I would a slalom water ski to be a wakeboard (no offense, just basing it on the full on forward stance rather than the number of planks). [Notice I didn't say, "a skwal is not a board", but I consider it equal to the comparison of a wakeboard vs. a slalom waterski] I guess my question is this. "is this a hardboot forum or a carving forum?" If it is based on the boots I think I'll start a Boxers carving forum and if you wear Briefs it's off topic because you aren't wearing the gear.;) Again, my bad on pissing on your thread.:o

[kjl]

Sorry, and I do agree... blah
meaningless
spewage
noise


Jesus Christ will you put a damn filter between your brain and your fingers? God.

AlaskanRover: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=skwal

You people. Seriously. W T F.

[tex1230]

You are a dip **** of epic porportions. Put down the cocktail and go back and reread exactly what I said about Skwal. Then, pick up your cocktail and choke on it.:)

Think Snow!

you owe me a new keyboard. just spit coffee all over this one. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[photodad2001]

You are a dip **** of epic porportions. Put down the cocktail and go back and reread exactly what I said about Skwal. Then, pick up your cocktail and choke on it.:)

Think Snow!

Hey Skiman!!! It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy knowing I mean so much to you that you would go through all this and get so emotional over little ol' me. You think about me all the time don't you. I know you do, I'm in your head and hard booters with your oppinions are just a bunch of dirty skiers.:p

Edit: Tell Tex to man up and delete his ignore "list" (what a pussy)

[photodad2001]

Jesus Christ will you put a damn filter between your brain and your fingers? God.

I had no idea you were so religious!:lol::lol::lol:

[Buell]

I had no idea you were so religious!:lol::lol::lol:

Why are you F'in up another thread that has nothing to do with you?

Can we get rid of this guy and his drive for negative attention yet? He offers nothing but headaches.

[Buell]

You could PM monodude (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=1451), since he is not posting here yet. He might be able to offer some help.

[Sultan Guy]

Saw my first ever Skwal today at my local mountain. Real nice guy and he was carving some nice turns, very similar to mine. Impressive stuff!

Call it what you want but he was definitely carving.

[wantok]

I am not sure where the boundary is (I ride both in some manner) but I prefer angled bindings on my skwal setup. I found the most difficult adjustment to be getting used to 60 degrees and hard boots on an alpine board, not increasing angles above that.

[tex1230]

I am not sure where the boundary is (I ride both in some manner) but I prefer angled bindings on my skwal setup. I found the most difficult adjustment to be getting used to 60 degrees and hard boots on an alpine board, not increasing angles above that.

I think the dividing line is around 14cm waist. I loved riding the couple that I have been on, but couldn't get used to riding them on anything but cord. I'll get another when I have seasons longer than 10 days (hopefully in the near future!)

riding 87/90 takes some real getting used to. best comparison I could make is a slalom waterski.

[wantok]

Roger that. I should add, somedays I can ride one but not the other, some days neither (safely).

[photodad2001]

photodad-what exactly is your reason for being here on BOL? You have been a bit of a **** show since you showed up and there seems to be no end. Do you have any actual interest in the things this site has to offer or just here to piss in the soup? Inquiring minds want to know. Sorry to salt up the Skwal thread.

Think Snow!

I carve therefore I am. It must have been my mistake for thinking this was a snowboard carving forum. I still believe it is but there are a handfull of intolerant people that think this spot is "all about the shoes". FYI, I have played golf in flip-flops before, I didn't have the spiky shoes. Shhhh. :ices_ange

[Buell]

Hey Skiman!!! It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy knowing I mean so much to you that you would go through all this and get so emotional over little ol' me. You think about me all the time don't you. I know you do, I'm in your head and hard booters with your oppinions are just a bunch of dirty skiers.:p

Edit: Tell Tex to man up and delete his ignore "list" (what a pussy)



Can we get rid of this guy and his drive for negative attention yet? He offers nothing but headaches.

[mikel45]

definitely carving.

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[mikel45]

What was good was trying downhill boots which were more responsive with greater edging power.


Very interesting ... two questions:

1) what model of downhill boots were you wearing, by-chance, flexon comps?
2) did you have heat mould liners?

[wantok]

Salomon Falcon 10. Not at all like the Raichle but quite smooth flexing. I normally use thermofit liners but these had a race fit liner.

[*Ace*]

Some skwal tips from someone that has put around 80 days on them this season alone.

Boards: vary, pick your poison if you can find it.
Custom is THE way to go though...

Bindings: TD3 SKWAL!('nuf said!)
Upgrade to step-in if you have the boots for it.

Boots: I personally use an alpine snowboard boot.
This allows you to have a shorter sole length than ski boots, allowing for lower angles(if you angle at all).
This also allows you to utilize the Fintec step-in heel assembly.
GO STEP-IN!
Thermofit liners are also widely available.
This is also HIGHLY recommended.
I use UPZ RTRs with Fintecs. Thermofitted!


Riding tips: practice, practice, practice!
It feels really odd at first, but once you get hooked you won't want to go back!

Ripping on a Thias Easy Jungle 165 8mSCR. :1luvu:

http://www.chrischabot.net/rip.jpg

[Alexx]

What's the difference of tails on the skwals
what can give square tail and what can do rounded one?
I am thinking which of tails can be chosen to make on custom skwal for GS.

[skwalann]

Riding tips: practice, practice, practice!
It feels really odd at first, but once you get hooked you won't want to go back!



I 2nd that, it's crazy weird at first but once you get it there is no undoing it. The carving boards are just a gateway drug to THIS!!! :eplus2::freak3::eplus2:

I won't be giving up my board quiver any time soon, but it will NOT be growing either, skwal maddness has gotten to my brain.

[Alexx]

Confirm! Skwal IS an addiction! Fast easy and needle like!

[wantok]

Wish I found out about you guys long time ago. What's your take on distance between bindings? And base bevel?

[JakeW.]

entertaining the idea of mounting skiboard bindings on regular parabolic ski and / or snowboard - how crazy is that?

If you are going to try it, I would use T-nuts for mounting the bindings. I don't know how you are planning on doing it, but I would not drill and screw the same way you mount ski bindings. There are very few things in life that suck more than losing your front binding to board connection at a high rate of speed!

[Alexx]

The distance between is 7cm. Based a little back from the center of the base.
I've got Phiokka standart(not intec) bindings.Angles (85/80)

[*Ace*]

Distance between bindings for me is 40-46cm depending on board length.
I like to run 3* cants on each foot.
Angles between 75-85.

I like to run 0 bevel on the base, 1 on the side of my carving skwal.
1/1 on my 'every day' skwal.

[b0ardski]

I ride occasionally with a sit skier who rips, but his gear limits him on the steeps. I've suggested ditching the standard ski (breaks them often) with a swal for better edge on steep piste and better float in pow.
Tim's a big guy and with the wieght of his rig is pushing 250#. We're thinking a skwal around 12-13 x 180cm would fit the bill. Any of you skwallers think that'd work, and maybe have a board to fit the bill?

[monodude]

I've got a 2001 era Volkl Monocarver (Skwal) that I might part with. It's a metal board and very rare in the U.S. It rips. 14.5 M SCR. I think with weight/pressure it turns down further, (sharper). 16.5 CM tip/11.5 CM waist/15.3 CM tail. The stance width is around 14" - 16 1/2" . It's in good shape. I bought it new last year and rode it around 40 half days. (more like 3 hour days). I weigh 225#.
It looks to be slightly bent in front of the front binding area. Barely noticable and no evidence in the topsheet or base to suggest any damage. Very minor, just being full discloser. If anything it helps with turn initiation. It has a ton of camber. The inserts are odd, but a 4X4 works when twisted 45* I ran Catek OS 2'S. I think with cut down Catek Polycarbonate Plates this would work with the extra weight. I put some on my Donek Custom Skwall FC and it stiffened it some and increased the "pop" alot.
$550 with the stock/original Volkl "bail" bindings. PM me if interested and I could send some pics.

Don

Feed the addiction...:eplus2:

[b0ardski]

Might be interested, thanks Don. Your email thru BOL is not enabled. Send me a couple pics to tmoore at gotsky dot com, not sure how soon I'll talk to Tim again about it, some time this coming week.
The sit ski will mount directly through a nylon block so the bindings won't be necessary but if you want to sell as a package I'll put them to use.

ps what's the length?

[mikel45]

Distance between bindings 40-46cm, angles 75-85, 1/1 bevel on every day' skwal.


Ace, thanks for previous suggestions re: boot & binding set-up.
I assume you mean 4-6 cm between bindings?
I'm clueless regarding bevel, what is that?

[mikel45]

Bindings: TD3 SKWAL!('nuf said!)


For anyone interested, found Ace's previous (year ago) review (opinion) of TD3 skwal bindings.
There is also some skwal photos, video, and explanation of DIY safety leash.

Here is the link:
http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=23456

[mikel45]

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[mikel45]

http://carving.grewu.org/ojankaivajat/2009/oppdal/thu/dsc_6044_std.jpg Source: Vahur (see previous bomber thread (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25277&highlight=thias))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Skwal.jpg/796px-Skwal.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons

[mikel45]

PSA ...
Skwal description and european manufacturers (http://www.alpinecarving.com/board_models.html#skwal).
Missing from list above, RAD (http://www.r-a-d.se/) based out of Sweden (see #40 above to view RAD stick in action).
So far Donek (http://www.donek.com/) Snowboards is only US-based source.
Possible to have Canada's Prior (http://www.priorsnowboards.com/) snowboards produce a custom build.

[Alexx]

Mikel45, thanks for the chance of seing Rabbit one more time. He rides on Donek 179 with 17 SCR, his riding looks very smooth free and effortless. I'm looking forward to get my order of my second skwal from Donek. My 200 lbs need rather stiff stick I'd say AStiffAP ( length-180, 13 SCR.) It's gonna be speed and stable machine.

[mikel45]

I'm looking forward to get my order of my second skwal from Donek. My 200 lbs need rather stiff stick (length-180, 13 SCR)

Hello Alexx, gee a timely reply indeed. Lately been contemplating ordering a Donek stick also. Was wondering what board specs would best suit my 200 lbs - thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[Alexx]

You are welcome! Very glad of this coincidence!
I need these very specs because of Moscow slopes are quite short, narrow and full of people, but at the same time 13m SCR is optimum.

[mikel45]

13m SCR is optimum.
Anyone care to guess what the SCR is on this board? ... (see video)
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[mikel45]

Impressive quiver ...

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z96/specialyblended/10_skwals.jpg
Notice second stick from the right, front and rear bindings are offset from each other.
Anyone familiar with this configuration?

[Badger]

That weird offset configuration is a two axis skwal by Thias. None of those in my skwal wagon

[Alexx]

[quote=mikel45;300596]
Anyone care to guess what the SCR is on this board? ...I can't see what's the board on this trailer. SCR choice depends on your purposes. What do you gonna get from riding. If you like doing the same things as in this trailer SCR should be (10m(quite unstable and snappy) -17m(very stable,but needs wide slopes and begin to work only at speed). For example Pink Banny's skwal has 17m SCR

[skwal]

Anyone care to guess what the SCR is on this board? ... (see video)
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sometimes 15m, sometimes 8m and sometimes 10m
minimum three differnet skwals (lacrois183, lacroix1650, thias180 or 173)
all three cheap foam skwals.....

[mikel45]

I can't see any good reason why a teleboard couldn't be used as a skwal - am I missing anything?

[*Ace*]

Ace, thanks for previous suggestions re: boot & binding set-up.


I assume you mean 4-6 cm between bindings?


I'm clueless regarding bevel, what is that?


No, I mean what I said.
Between 40-46CM!
So like ~17in.
Tried the super narrow stance, not for me.

Bevel is the angle on the edge of the skwal.
Higher the bevel, the sharper the edge.
No need to go extreme on a skwal.

[Badger]

I can't see any good reason why a teleboard couldn't be used as a skwal - am I missing anything?

I had a King Carve teleboard 190 and had extra inserts fitted so I could bolt on hardbood bindings. It worked OK, but the small SCR ( 8 m I recall) and the length of the board did not quite match and I got the feeling that teleboad was too soft as a skwal. I put the telemark bindings back on the board and sold it away.

[mikel45]

Attempting to build a skwal, at the moment design stage, stats are 180 - 110 - 156 mm (12m radius) @ 180 cm, just wondering what effect nose width has on performance? Wider nose width for deeper snow, narrow nose width for hard pack, or am I off-base completely - appreciate any and all insights.

[Alexx]

Attempting to build a skwal, at the moment design stage, stats are 180 - 110 - 156 mm (12m radius) @ 180 cm, just wondering what effect nose width has on performance? Wider nose width for deeper snow, narrow nose width for hard pack, or am I off-base completely - appreciate any and all insights.
I suppouse, the width of nose in skwal's issue is not quite important. My Donek skwal has 17 cm nose,Lagriffe 18 cm nose. It's OK.
The narrower the nose,the easier turn initiation, but at the same time its less stable.

[mikel45]

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On mpride (http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.mpride.net/&ei=-uzqTK7wKsinnQfRp_W7DQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CB8Q7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dx%2Brace%2Bskwal%26hl%3Den%26client%3 Dsafari%26rls%3Den) XRace board

[mikel45]

Hi all, how cool is this . . . I got myself a skwal (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=31723) (thanks two_ravens :biggthump) . . . but, pressure is now on . . . seems I need to provide two_ravens with photographic evidence of me ripping monster carves on the Volkl. Problem is that I need to first learn how to ride a darn skwal, in particular, a Volkl. Understand it requires lots of speed to initiate carves. Prudent to start off using ski poles - any other suggestions for a skwal beginner would greatly be appreciated - photos pending.

[*Ace*]

Welcome to the club!

Monodude on a Volkl Monocarver
http://www.chrischabot.net/donrip.jpg

Me on my Virus Chimera. (props to Sean Martin for the photo!)
http://www.chrischabot.net/chimerarip.jpg

[sabestian]

I got myself a skwal, too. An old Lacroix, just to try. Can't wait!!! :eek: Excited as hell, no clue how to ride that thing. Plenty of resources, very little in English, though.

I already figured you need speed, most start with poles first. But whether it is possible to apply push-pull plus rotation technique (extremecarving-esque) remains mistery to me. On most videos you can see counter rotation, which I am trying to un-learn, but some carvers do it like I would like to.

Ohhhh, I wish I was on the piste right now! Will have to wait.

[mikel45]

Hmmm . . . "Skwal USA" . . . coming soon
http://www.skwalskis.com/

[two_ravens]

Hi all, how cool is this . . . I got myself a skwal (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=31723) (thanks two_ravens :biggthump) . . . but, pressure is now on . . . seems I need to provide two_ravens with photographic evidence of me ripping monster carves on the Volkl. Problem is that I need to first learn how to ride a darn skwal, in particular, a Volkl. Understand it requires lots of speed to initiate carves. Prudent to start off using ski poles - any other suggestions for a skwal beginner would greatly be appreciated - photos pending.

That's right, patiently awaiting photographic proof of you having FUN with your new Volkl! :):lurk:

[zarkod]

false. Some skwals ride better offpiste and in the crud, though.


Most skwals are extreme carving oriented

But there are also several skwal board designed for powder.
The Thias TS176 with soft boots :
http://www.skwalzone.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2479&g2_serialNumber=2

and the Fall'US :
http://shop.skwal.eu/img/p/40-169-large.jpg

and here in action:
http://www.skwalzone.org/gfx/illus/shama_seracs.jpg


Some are fine for both offpist and slopes : the Thias FC180
and the new Lagriffe board coming this season codename "white ambiance 180".

[zarkod]

I got myself a skwal, too. An old Lacroix, just to try. ...

But whether it is possible to apply push-pull plus rotation technique (extremecarving-esque) remains mistery to me. ...

Yes you can apply push-pull in skwal also.

There is a small tutorial in english to learn skwal on a new italian resource :
http://www.skwalclubitalia.it/ see "Tecnica-skwal"
and "english version". Some videos are provided.

[Skwalleur]

http://carving.grewu.org/ojankaivajat/2009/oppdal/thu/dsc_6044_std.jpg Source: Vahur (see previous bomber thread (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25277&highlight=thias))
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Skwal.jpg/796px-Skwal.jpg
Source: Wikimedia Commons

But hey! That's me! Both images too, but a few years and boards in between. First shot is two years ago testing r-a-d boards. Second one is way older on
a Völkl I think.

[zarkod]

Looks like the R-A-D is much more efficient ;)

[Skwalleur]

Looks like the R-A-D is much more efficient ;)

Yeah, a few years improved things too.

[mikel45]

All in a week here in bomber land - Lacroix 180 (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33343), Plazma (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33287) and radical skwal carving (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33287) video - feeling the vibe yet?

[two_ravens]

mikel45, how's your skwal vibe? :) Made friends with that Volkl yet? :biggthump

[obi one]

All in a week here in bomber land - Lacroix 180 (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33343), Plazma (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33287) and radical skwal carving (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33287) video - feeling the vibe yet?

...together with the skwal vibe ... some news to the interested skwalers in skwal technique...

The english version of Tecnica-Skwal for advanced level is on-line: go to <!-- w -->www.skwalclubitalia.it (http://www.skwalclubitalia.it/)<!-- w --> , select "Tecnica-Skwal" and select "english version" under "Livello Avanzato"...

this is my effort and proposition to intermediate advanced carvers...

let's the skwal vibe begin in us

ps-looking forward for the US Skwal site.....


Obi One

[obi one]

All in a week here in bomber land - Lacroix 180 (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33343), Plazma (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33287) and radical skwal carving (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33287) video - feeling the vibe yet?

even the skwal race vibe if you wish......(me in switzerland a month ago...)

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1359.snc4/163192_136306533097681_100001550056310_215481_4156 19_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=215482&id=100001550056310)

[mikel45]

Made friends with that Volkl yet? :biggthump

Dear Two Ravens . . . Oh Ya . . . today was the day . . . this old-poke officially diagnosed with chronic volkl vibe (addiction).

[two_ravens]

Sweet!!!!!! :biggthump

[mikel45]

For those that might be interested . . . from a non-boarder, solely a skier - first day ever on a skwal. Started off on magic carpet (bunny hill) to learn how to point and track the board under limited speed. Move to tow rope (larger bunny hill) to increase speed. Moved to triple chair, learned mighty quick how to depart chair, initiate turns and more importantly how to stop!! Ski poles used throughout. Also, let be known, all was not accomplished without a few rolling windmills. All before noon. Overall conclusion, skwals are a blast - highly recommended!!

[mikel45]

Prefer to tune my own board. Anyone know what the bevel angle for base and side edge on Volkl monocarver might be?

[Jon Dahl]

Anyone have something here stateside that a newb could try?

[obi one]

Prefer to tune my own board. Anyone know what the bevel angle for base and side edge on Volkl monocarver might be?


1 base and 2 side,

more aggressive (for real hardpack snow): 0.5 base and 3 side

[mikel45]

1 base and 2 side, more aggressive (for real hardpack snow): 0.5 base and 3 side

We surely have hardpack around these neck of woods, but I think I'll stick with the standard 1 base, 2 side - thanks much.

Instruction: Obi One videos
Obi One, I really enjoying watching your videos (Shadows at Pila (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgEgGScjnAg) & skwaliverse, a skwal on the white walls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42qzv5v5PQ)).
When twinned with your english instruction sheet (http://www.skwalclubitalia.it/English%20Tecnica-Skwal%20ADVANCED%20OK.pdf) they provide a beginner a good starting point to learn how to skwal.

I particularly found the start of the 2:59 minute mark of skwaliverse video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42qzv5v5PQ) to be very insightful.
A great example of tilting of the arms, compression and shift of body weight. Again, thanks much!

What size is the Xrace?

[obi one]

We surely have hardpack around these neck of woods, but I think I'll stick with the standard 1 base, 2 side - thanks much.



Instruction: Obi One videos


Obi One, I really enjoying watching your videos (Shadows at Pila (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgEgGScjnAg) & skwaliverse, a skwal on the white walls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42qzv5v5PQ)).


When twinned with your english instruction sheet (http://www.skwalclubitalia.it/English%20Tecnica-Skwal%20ADVANCED%20OK.pdf) they provide a beginner a good starting point to learn how to skwal.



I particularly found the start of the 2:59 minute mark of skwaliverse video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I42qzv5v5PQ) to be very insightful.


A great example of tilting of the arms, compression and shift of body weight. Again, thanks much!



What size is the Xrace?


Hi!
remember this question:
"how do you perform a turn with a bike at a moderate speed?"

...think about the natural positioning of your body to ride the bike and... there you go!...a skwal turn is the same : )


xrace skwals:
the xrace skwals come in two sizes: 173cm or 183cm

I ride the 183, but even the 173 is real fun...the former is "for real work" to latter is a "wonderful carving toy"

obi one

[tufty]

Finally! Mubarak has gone, and I have a 3-axis skwal. And it's a palindromic date.

1 pretty much spanking new 178 Panther, 100€

[sabestian]

Where? How?! I mean the Panther, not Mubarak.

[tufty]

Being based in France helps, there seem to be more here than anywhere else. Could have got myself a second SK200 as well, but the guy wanted more for that than the Panther... http://www.leboncoin.fr is the place to look.

Had to wait for 2 years before one came up at the right price, though. Took it out this morning. Most amusing.

[sabestian]

Today was my first two hour day on SK200, first time on a skwal, too. This thing is a fekkkkin rocket! Absolutely love it. After 1 hour of trying to figure out how to step in these bloody Elfgens and how to stand without tripping over I suddenly got it and I can carve all the blue and red slopes in the resort. :1luvu: Now I need something with smaller SCR, the snow's on fire! :eplus2:

tufty, thanks for the link. Too much of a hassle to try to translate it for me.

[tufty]

tufty, thanks for the link. Too much of a hassle to try to translate it for me.
If you're in Poland like your profile says, your best bet is probably ebay or the polish equivalent of leboncoin (which is a French free ads site *not* linked to frickin' paypal, but most people don't wanna ship, so you have to look locally). Or, if you can afford to pay for a new plank, there's a few online shops dealing with skwals (http://shop.skwal.eu/ is the european skwal association's shop, they sell Lagriffe boards direct - if I had the money that's where I would have gone, the Lagriffe boards rule).

There's always a few chancers out there, there's one guy on leboncoin who regularly advertises a "snow-skwal" at ~150€ which is, in reality, a fat, straight, 1980s ski with elfgen snowboard bindings screwed to it (it has a radius of >50m, but he doesn't advertise that).

If you're up for trying to organise shipping, here's an auto translated (french-polish, change the "tl=pl" to "tl=en" for french-english) link to leboncoin : http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=pl&u=http://www.leboncoin.fr/annonces/offres/rhone_alpes/occasions/%3Ff%3Da%26th%3D1%26q%3Dskwal

the other option is the skwalzone.org forum personal ads.

The SK200 is a fantastic board, but massively fast with a big radius. Like you say, a rocket. To learn on, you might do better with a 173°F or 183°F, although carving at Mach 10 on the SK200 is insanely addictive once you've got a handle on it.

[mikel45]

Sabestian, thanks for sharing.

Yesterday, my second day out on skwal - one run without poles was a bit of disaster balance-wise. Finding being shot out like slingshot at the ends of carves a bit un-nerving. I've decided more comfortable with walking mode boot flex for slope entrance into carve. Presently experimenting with stance distance and back boot angulation.

What are people using for back foot angulation? Never even thought of this possible variation:

http://www.snowgo.com/images/cour03.jpg
Source: Snowgo (http://www.snowgo.com/): Riding the Skwal in Courchevel (http://www.snowgo.com/archives/2000/02/23/riding_the_skwal_in_courchevel.php)

[tufty]

I'm running 90/89 or thereabouts. The two in that photo appear to be goofy, but with the panther set up "wrong footed". That's just plain wierd, but whatever works, I guess.

[sabestian]

The SK200 is a fantastic board, but massively fast with a big radius. Like you say, a rocket. To learn on, you might do better with a 173°F or 183°F, although carving at Mach 10 on the SK200 is insanely addictive once you've got a handle on it.

I *think* :eek: I can handle it. Perhaps I shouldn't have written that actually :boxing_sm , now it will probably kick my arse! I am being thrown in the air between curves, all that with control (after 90 minutes on skwal). All the ObiOne's teachings clicked into place. Awesome feeling, I think I'm in love. If this is what an oldie like that is capable of doing, I can't even start to imagine what a modern skwal can???

Thanks for being so helpfull, this is really encouraging. I am thinking of buying the Lagriffe RS176 Titanal with Piokka bindings of the shop.skwal.eu. This, I believe, would be a slower, tamier and more versatile skwal. Perhaps I could even throw some extremecarving into it? :confused: Question is, is it going to be stiff enough for my 90kg (with gear, boots etc) and 180cm?

[mikel45]

After a long drought there have been 2 or 3 skwals recently sold right here in bomber land. Alternatively, retail options within North America are the following:

- Donek (http://www.donek.com/specs_hard.html) [scroll to bottom]
- CODA (http://codaboards.com/skwall.php)
- SkwalUSA (http://www.skwalskis.com/) (to be determeined)

[mikel45]

Recommendation: Go the extra mile and get a Pozidrive screwdriver for your skwal needs.

[tufty]

I am being thrown in the air between curves, all that with control (after 90 minutes on skwal).
You're doing fine, then.


Question is, is it going to be stiff enough for my 90kg (with gear, boots etc) and 180cm?
The RS176 should be fine, but it might be worth finding out if you can get to any of the skwal association's tryout days first.

[zarkod]

Without doubt we can say that the angulations shown below on the left skwal are wrong : 3 degrees on the front foot and more than 5° the back foot is not right.

The front foot should always be at 0° and for the back foot, it should range between 0° to 4° max (especially on a board like an easy jungle with very short SCR).




What are people using for back foot angulation? Never even thought of this possible variation:

http://www.snowgo.com/images/cour03.jpg
Source: Snowgo (http://www.snowgo.com/): Riding the Skwal in Courchevel (http://www.snowgo.com/archives/2000/02/23/riding_the_skwal_in_courchevel.php)

[Alexx]

For me I'm 92 kg, it was a bit soft, and I had to get rid of it and ordered Donek custom 180 fiberglass 13m SCR, stiff 8,5 (Donek's scale). Custom fits me PERFECT!

[*Ace*]

Virus makes one of the best custom Skwals money can buy.

He has a few models that inculde the UFC Skwal and the Speed Skwal.

I had a custom twin tip Skwal made a year and a half ago called the 'Chimera'. It is 175cm in length, titanal carbon kevlar construction, decambered nose and tail, 18cm nose/12cm waist/17.5cm tail, ~9.5m sidecut. Mine was built with a medium flex for a 175lb rider. I would highly recommend this shape to anyone that is looking to go custom.

http://www.chrischabot.net/chimera.jpg

In action:

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JcWqxmAdCfo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[davekempmeister]

That is beautiful Ace! How long did you wait from time of order to get it?, if you don't mind me asking. btw, riding not too shabby either.

[obi one]

...for those of you that could make it...come to the european skwal events organised by the European Skwal Association (ESA): come, test and ride (for free) most of the modern skwals and skwal equipments available today.

http://www.skwal.eu/public/index.php/

Skwal tests are regularly provided by ESA with their Skwal Masters and Facilitators that will help you skwaling around and giving free advice. These events are held during the Euro Skwal Tour (every Sundays as in the leaflet here below)
(e.g., 27 February in San Bernardino (Swisse)).


http://skwal.eu/public/themes/theme2011/img/mnsaison.jpg (http://aes.skwalzone.org/public/index.php/post/2009/11/04/Calendrier-2010)


... give it a try! skwal in group!...

Obi One

[mikel45]

I'm using a pair of Raichle SB324 boots. Trying to figure what is the best flex, walk mode or locked? Or a variation, e.g., locked front boot with back boot in walk mode. I realize this probably based on personal preference but interested in your opinion to provide a starting point. So, here are the options:

- both boots in walk mode;
- both boots in locked mode;
- front/back boot mix;
- unthought variation;
- or, prefer the BTS (yellow, blue, red) spring kit

Interested in all thoughts on what works best.

[bobdea]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/You-Are-In_The_Wrong_Forum.jpg

[bobdea]

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/03/500x_offtopic.jpg

[mikel45]

Bobdea meet Photodad

[b0ardski]

Don't get why flex preferences of hardboots on 12-14 wide alpine carving boards is off topic.:confused:
you sound like one of those that think square tails aren't snowboards.

[bobdea]

Bobdea (dic% #2) meet Photodad2001 (http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=295946#post295946) (dic% #1)

well, at least he was half right being here, it being a alpine SNOWBOARD forum

[bobdea]

Don't get why flex preferences of hardboots on 12-14 wide alpine carving boards is off topic.:confused:
you sound like one of those that think square tails aren't snowboards.

says the guy who uses ski poles.

[tufty]

Bob, get off the computer and onto the snow.

[bobdea]

not saying it's not cool or anything but it's the same as if I went roller derby forum and started pimping inline skates or to TDIclub.com and started a thread about awesome 1996 gmc sierra 6.5 turbo in the main forum.

[Jack Michaud]

It's hardboots... it's one foot in front of the other... it's carving...

[tufty]

not saying it's not cool or anything but it's the same as if I went roller derby forum and started pimping inline skates or to TDIclub.com and started a thread about awesome 1996 gmc sierra 6.5 turbo in the main forum.
OK, I'll bite. I know I shouldn't. IHBT.

A skwal *is* an alpine snowboard. The only difference is width. Its even more "pure" than an alpine board, in many senses - the *only* thing that makes sense is carving, to do anything else requires unnatural movements. Its hard to "scarve", let alone skid the ****ing thing. Technique is the same, cross over/under/through is the same, weight transfer in carves is the same. You need to be a better ride to do it right, though. Riding a skwal for the first time is like going from a soft rig to hardboots for the first time - it all feels wrong and you get ejected a lot. In the same way that I doubt there is a single rider here who couldn't ride the piss out of the average softboot rig, though, when you go back to a more "conventional" board you will find your riding has improved. You will have a calmer upper body, more precise weight transfer, and so on.

There's even "modern" shaped skwals with metal construction, if you want to get all "if it's not decambered" about things. And fin makes bindings for 'em.

Like I said, get out on the snow. Try a skwal, if you can. It's even more fun than "classic" alpine, but you may need to spend some time waxing your ears.

[b0ardski]

says the guy who uses ski poles.
Can't you tell the difference between ski poles and snowboard poles? Why do some of you disdain my ability to use tools in my hands? They enhance my riding on a skwal, alpine board, powder board just as much as alpine skis, tele skis, xc skis and mono skis.
I can ride/ski w/out them but why should I have to:confused:
Closed minds blow mine.



Sorry for the thread jack... and now back to your regularly skinnied program

[bobdea]

It's hardboots... it's one foot in front of the other... it's carving...

some of them use ski bindings for god's sake.

[corey_dyck]

Come on Bob, would you say this stuff to someone's face? Having just been through the overwhelmingly positive and acceptive vibe of SES, I find this discussion to be silly. Carve ANYTHING at SES and you'll get cheers. We were cheering on the ski guides railing it at first tracks. Dick (forget his last name) is well into retirement age and rides with poles. He got lots of cheers!

The average jibber kid has the same negative attitude towards us, we all find it annoying or at least funny in a pitiful way for their lack of experience. Why perpetuate the hate?

[bobdea]

Come on Bob, would you say this stuff to someone's face? Having just been through the overwhelmingly positive and acceptive vibe of SES, I find this discussion to be silly. Carve ANYTHING at SES and you'll get cheers. We were cheering on the ski guides railing it at first tracks. Dick (forget his last name) is well into retirement age and rides with poles. He got lots of cheers!

The average jibber kid has the same negative attitude towards us, we all find it annoying or at least funny in a pitiful way for their lack of experience. Why perpetuate the hate?

I said nothing negative, just that it's not, by it's own name, a snowboard.

no disdain or anything. given that even softboot content gets moved, that at least is a type of snowboarding.

a teleboard is not a snowboard either.....

[Jack Michaud]

a teleboard is not a snowboard either.....

Well that's a little different because a Teleboard is just wrong. ;) :p ;)

[bobdea]

And fin makes bindings for 'em.



fin also makes "skiboard" bindings and telemark bindings, do you have a point?

[bobdea]

Well that's a little different because a Teleboard is just wrong. ;) ;) ;)

teleboards are awesome under the right rider.

[*Ace*]

That is beautiful Ace! How long did you wait from time of order to get it?, if you don't mind me asking. btw, riding not too shabby either.

That was the first board, unfortunately it broke, now on number two. The only difference is in the graphics, new board has a matte finish with black Virus logos.

The turn around between order placement and shipment was remarkbly fast. I would say it was around 2-4 weeks. Frank doesn't mess around.

I appreciate the compliment.:biggthump



Bob, don't you have anything better to do than trolling around the Skwal thread?

[bobdea]

Bob, don't you have anything better to do than trolling around the Skwal thread?

nope, just bored and figured I'd have a bit of fun and make a point too.

[mikel45]

just bored and figured I'd have a bit of fun and make a point too.


This thread is not a dumping ground for the intoxicated, aggressive, bored, or semantic fun seekers.

[bobdea]

Forgive me, but I've lost my patience . . . this thread is not a dumping ground for the intoxicated, aggressive, bored, or semantic fun seekers.

says the guy who's talking skwals on a snowboard site.
:biggthump

[tufty]

Grow the **** up, man.

[mikel45]

For the carving community . . .

http://www.skwalzone.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=2858&g2_serialNumber=1
Source: Nommam

[obi one]

I'm using a pair of Raichle SB324 boots. Trying to figure what is the best flex, walk mode or locked? Or a variation, e.g., locked front boot with back boot in walk mode. I realize this probably based on personal preference but interested in your opinion to provide a starting point. So, here are the options:


- both boots in walk mode;
- both boots in locked mode;
- front/back boot mix;
- unthought variation;
- or, prefer the BTS (yellow, blue, red) spring kit


Interested in all thoughts on what works best.


bearing in mind that boot configuration is personal I would suggest:

1) both in locked mode
2) the back boot would have a few more locked flex degrees than the front boot (test: put your feet in-line and check visually the anckle flex differences, no stance between feet...respect that flex on boot locking)
3) use a cant (6 degrees) to rise up the tip of the front foot and a cant to rise the heel of the back foot)

obi one

[obi one]

Can't you tell the difference between ski poles and snowboard poles? Why do some of you disdain my ability to use tools in my hands? They enhance my riding on a skwal, alpine board, powder board just as much as alpine skis, tele skis, xc skis and mono skis.
I can ride/ski w/out them but why should I have to:confused:
Closed minds blow mine.



Sorry for the thread jack... and now back to your regularly skinnied program


yep,
ski poles to skwal are cool...and when you skwal powder they help a lot...

[mikel45]

I would suggest: 1) both in locked mode; 2) the back boot would have a few more locked flex degrees than the front boot (test: put your feet in-line and check visually the anckle flex differences, no stance between feet...respect that flex on boot locking); 3) use a cant (6 degrees) to rise up the tip of the front foot and a cant to rise the heel of the back foot)


Great stuff, again, thanks a bunch Obi One!

[skwalguy]

Thanks Ace! Hope you are enjoying my Donek! Here is a shot of your board from the weekend!
http://bigmtnphoto.smugmug.com/Whitefish-Mtn-Resort-February/feb/PM-snowboarders/Ptar-Bowl-PM-3247/1194180858_mkbkQ-L.jpg

[*Ace*]

You certainly seem like you are infeceted. :eplus2:

http://bigmtnphoto.smugmug.com/Whitefish-Mtn-Resort-February/feb/PM-snowboarders/Ptar-Bowl-PM-3247/1194180858_mkbkQ-L.jpg

[skwalann]

I'm having withdrawals... I ripped threads out of the inserts under my front binding. Carving on a board isn't the same... I feel like I am riding a mac truck down the hill instead of a ferrari :(

I hope I get it back from the shop soon.

[sabestian]

I feel like I am riding a mac truck down the hill instead of a ferrari :(

Well said! :)

[skwalann]

I think I need to buy another skwal so that things like this don't take me out of commission. :|

Has anybody here ridden one of the Donek Skwals? I am sure they are great since he makes such great boards. Just wondering as compared to a Lacroix Skwal or similar.

[Alexx]

It is can be 100% custom.
Donek'd made one for me due to my data.
180 cm,SCR 13m, waist 11cm, stiffness 8,5 (one of the stiffest, special for my 92kg). I ordered the speed and stable machine for aggresive carving with good icehold ability. And I got it!

[mikel45]

Wondering if others noticed that they are stronger (more comfortable) with a preferred direction of carve. Seems a right leaning carve is okay for me, having trouble feeling comfortable leaning into left sided carve.

[skwalann]

Wondering if others noticed that they are stronger (more comfortable) with a preferred direction of carve. Seems a right leaning carve is okay for me, having trouble feeling comfortable leaning into left sided carve.

I used to have that problem a lot... Now it's an occasional problem and my heel side is the strong one when it happens.

[obi one]

Wondering if others noticed that they are stronger (more comfortable) with a preferred direction of carve. Seems a right leaning carve is okay for me, having trouble feeling comfortable leaning into left sided carve.


Hi mikel45,
which foot is the front foot for you, left? which part/phase of the left turn you are not comnfortable with? engaging the turn? the leading phase?, or the final part, the disengagement?

general exercise:
1) increase the right turn (end the right turn with the skwal nose facing the full side of the slope...or even more ..that is nose going over the side of the slope)
2) close the left turn earlier (to get more confortable) ...and lock the nose of the skwal below the side of the slope.

do 1) and 2) in sequence

obi one

[mikel45]

which foot is the front foot for you, left? which part/phase of the left turn you are not comnfortable with? engaging the turn?


Hi Obi,

Yes and yes - left foot and engaging into turn.

I suspect it might be associated with back foot being offset 5 degrees - as an experiment, I've re-adjusted the back foot so that it's inline with front foot, let' see if that makes a difference.

I also noticed that as the day progressed I was getting more comfortable, not crouching, instead standing tall, which seemed to lessen the apprehension into the turn. Your previous suggestion, "imagine leaning into bicycle turn" helped immensely. I'm thrilled with my progress, thanks much for your continued support - much appreciated.

CHEERS!

Mike

[*Ace*]

Everyone should read "The Inner Glide: The Tao of Skiing, Snowboarding, and Skwalling (http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Glide-Skiing-Snowboarding-Skwalling/dp/159477160X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1299345277&sr=8-1#_)" by Patrick Thias Balmain. Lots of good technique discussed.

[obi one]

Everyone should read "The Inner Glide: The Tao of Skiing, Snowboarding, and Skwalling (http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Glide-Skiing-Snowboarding-Skwalling/dp/159477160X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1299345277&sr=8-1#_)" by Patrick Thias Balmain. Lots of good technique discussed.


yes Ace! that's the book to have...to me, any skwaler or skwalinette should have read it once at least :) ...Thias explains also when and why skwal was born in the the early '90ies

[*Ace*]

Skwal USA (http://www.skwalskis.com/) is online and from what I gathered from their Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Skwal-USA/152742964779406) page they are currently testing two prototypes in Aspen.

Looks like good stuff!

[queequeg]

Skwal USA (http://www.skwalskis.com/) is online and from what I gathered from their Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Skwal-USA/152742964779406) page they are currently testing two prototypes in Aspen.

Looks like good stuff!

Nice site, and some nice photos of you in there. The freeride video is pretty cool too.

One of the things that I've never understood about (most) skwal riders is the extremely narrow stance. Why is it that so many skwalleurs (sp?) prefer these insanely narrow stances over something a bit wider that would distribute pressure further out and more evenly out to the tip and tail of the skwal? In a lot of the videos I see the tip and tail of the boards are bouncing around like crazy and I often wonder if the comination of a very long deck + a very narrow stance is the culprit. All of that noisy bouncing around of the tip and tail seems like it would destabilize the board and make for a louder ride.

I've noticed that you ride a much wider stance than most skwalleurs (though seemingly not as wide as people riding "regular" carving decks and lower angles), and I also notice that the tip and tail of your board do not flail around the same way that I see in many of the skwal videos, and that you are a *WAY* smoother rider than other skwalleurs that I see in videos (err or pretty much anyone I see on the mountain). That really makes it hard for me to understand the preference for such narrow stances amont skwalleurs.

My initial guess is that maybe a lot of skwalleurs come from a skiing background or a monoski background, and thus have a natural preference for narrow stances, whereas you come from an alpine snowboarding background so a wider stance makes sense? I assume all the guys with the narrow stances are on ski boots?

It just seems to me that such narrow stances rob the rider of stability and the ability to pressure the tip and tail so they seem odd to me.

I of course, know nothing about skwalling, though back when I was riding super narrow boards in the 90's I did ride some really high 70+ degree angles ... and super narrow stances were de rigeur back then.

(This is not an attempt to start a poop-flinging contest, I am genuinely curious).

[Dan]

Nice site, and some nice photos of you in there. The freeride video is pretty cool too.

One of the things that I've never understood about (most) skwal riders is the extremely narrow stance.

I have very little skwalling experience, but I did acquire one and play around with it for a few hours about 3 years ago. It was a fun ride -- very fast edge-to-edge -- but it made my knees ache, so I couldn't stick with it.

On that particular board (I think it was one of the Thias skwals with the panther topsheet), the bindings didn't offer enough heel/toe lift to get a wider stance. I think the bindings were screwed in (ski style) rather than inserted, so I didn't have the option of trying a different stance even if the toe/heel lift had accommodated it.

[RobertAlexander]

I will be trying skwal for the first time this week. The board is presently in the press. Stats are 172/10.7/18/14/18. Much thought went into insert placement. I ride alpine. I mounted the skwall bindings on a 2x4 and tried different dims to see what it felt like on the rug. of course everything kind of feels ok on the rug, but ended up choosing a 15.5"/17" adjustability.I think I will try 16.5 to start. That leaves about 4.5" of space in between my 27 mondo boots. I will post pics of the board as soon as I can.

[*Ace*]

Thanks Jose. :biggthump

I have to talk to the guy about that photo actually. It was taken by Sean Martin and therefore might have some legal copyright issues...

I tried that really narrow stance when I first started to Skwal and I had to change it after the very first run! Without a doubt it helps with stability, and I think is a major reason why you see most people in the videos that look like they are just along for the ride, not balanced or comfortable. A wider stance also makes it SO much easier to get lower, way easier to bend your knees. Canting is another big reason why people don't go wide. I like to be canted 3* on each foot when I am spread out, being flat doesn't work so well for me with a wide stance. Thats why I ride Bombers. The older Thias SnoPro bindings had no cant adjustments, and like Dan said, the earlier ones were screwed in like ski bindings.



I will be trying skwal for the first time this week. The board is presently in the press. Stats are 172/10.7/18/14/18. Much thought went into insert placement. I ride alpine. I mounted the skwall bindings on a 2x4 and tried different dims to see what it felt like on the rug.

NICE! I am in the process of building a press myself so I can start pressing my own ideas. The dimensions of that board sound great. *MIGHT* be a little hooky, a very small ammount of taper will help that, so maybe like 17.5cm in the tail. Interested to see what you turn out.

*my custom is a 175/9 18/12/17.5 Twin-tip with decambered nose and tail, metal. All that new alpine tech, ie: metal, decambered nose, etc works just as good on the Skwals...just to let you know when you are designing your new boards.

[tufty]

I spent the afternoon cutting the core for my new board today. 180, 9.5-13m radius, 12cm underfoot, decambered nose.

Personally, I have the "standard" 4cm between boots stance, possibly because that's what I started with (and my SK200 wasn't inserted, so I had to stick with what I had), but I have tried the widest possible stance on my Panther and didn't like it. A wider stance might be more forgiving, but if you wanted an easy ride you wouldn't be on a skwal, right?

I rode for a bit with a colleague the day before yesterday, I don't think he's a fan. Roughly translated, what he said was "that thing runs like a high-speed train and carves harder than anything I've ever seen, but you still look like a spastic riding it"

:)

Simon

[trailertrash]

...but if you wanted an easy ride you wouldn't be on a skwal, right?

Why does one actually ride a skwal? What is the point? What is the device good at?

I am curious.

[tex1230]

Why does one actually ride a skwal? What is the point? What is the device good at?

I am curious.

They are actually pretty fun. I don't think I would do it every day, but it will teach you to commit to your carve. In my experience, it's very difficult to skid.

If you ride high angles, going from 60+ degrees to 87.5-90 isn't that big of a switch. The tough part for me was Thias skwals (the one I had) are set for pretty narrow stances.

Plus, you get to ride Deer Valley - unlike on an alpine snowboard.

[queequeg]

Why does one actually ride a skwal? What is the point? What is the device good at?

I am curious.

They are extremely fast edge-to-edge. They also seem like they would be pretty good in the bumps.

[tufty]

Why does one actually ride a skwal? What is the point? What is the device good at?
Why does one ride a skwal? Why not?
What is the point? It's the bit at the front.
What is the device good at? Carving.

Seriously? an excerpt of what I posted on the skwalzone forums:


Elegance. A turn is it's own justification. A skidded turn is a wasted opportunity. It's not enough to "get down" a slope, perfect lines are a must. Speed is irrelevant. Jumps are pointless. Rubbing the snow is not a goal, but it happens. Beauty, simplicity is everything. When people say "I want to be able to do that", you have won.

...

Last year a friend's father (no slouch on skis) said of my boarding, "That was beautiful. It looked effortless". The greatest compliment I've ever had, especially as it was after a 1000m descent through late march fresh snow / chop at the end of the day on a slalom board - it may have looked effortless, but I could hardly stand at the end of it :)

So now I'm back to searching for nirvana, purity of carve, on a skwal. It's hard, and it hurts. Which is why it's wortwhile.

The skwal is pure carving. Totally committed, almost totally pure, little "backside and frontside" to consider, no wimping out. It's hard to do. It's harder to skid than to carve. It's like the switch from softboots to hardboots. Once you've tried it, you run the risk of not wanting to go back.

They're pretty damn good in the powder, too.

[RobertAlexander]

If I may politely ask and explain my take on skwal vs alpine stance. i ride a 20.75" stance using 3 degree front and rear, with about 1.5" setback from midpoint. From looking at many skwals I conclude that the rear binding position is about the same as an alpineboard in relation to midpoint, however the front bindings are anywhere from 3" to 4" further to the rear(at or just in front of midpoint) as alpines are. Is this because as your angles climb to 80/85/or above, it is more comfortable to move your front foot back. Why not move both bindings inward equally? Has anyone tried this? curios, Thank you

[obi one]

if you can make it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM-xXowOX7Q

come and see

obi one

[Dan]

Why does one actually ride a skwal? What is the point? What is the device good at?

I am curious.

You know how your alpine board is much quicker edge to edge than your freeride board? Well...edge changes on a skwal are that much faster -- feels really quick/nimble and it's definitely a lot of fun.

And remember, boards were trending skinny just a few years ago, so the skwal fits that progression well -- it was just a few steps further down the path. I think that anyone who rides alpine would have fun trying out a skwal, even if they don't adopt it as their primary sliding mode.

[mikel45]

Why a skwal? . . . titanal + alpine speed + progressive (slingshot) sidecut = big smile wicked carves

[*Ace*]

More fun than alpine snowboarding!

:AR15firin

[Jack Michaud]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM-xXowOX7Q

That guy looks very tippy and unbalanced. He reaches for the snow a lot. Not something I'd want to emulate.


You know how your alpine board is much quicker edge to edge than your freeride board? Well...edge changes on a skwal are that much faster -- feels really quick/nimble and it's definitely a lot of fun.

I haven't ridden a skwal, but super quick edge-to-edge speed has never been a big draw for me. Do you honestly get to the bottom of a run and think "man, those were some sick edge changes!"? I don't. I'm loving my 21cm wide Stubby 171. I have no complaints about the edge changes, I can do them as quick as I want to. Whenever I get on an 18cm wide board I feel like I'm on a balance beam. Meh.


And remember, boards were trending skinny just a few years ago,

If by a few years ago you mean like 16.


I think that anyone who rides alpine would have fun trying out a skwal, even if they don't adopt it as their primary sliding mode.

It looks like it would be a gas to try, but I don't see any mechanical advantage to them, so I'm sure I wouldn't make it my primary ride. The ability to make strong fore/aft weight adjustments is one of the biggest advantages we have over skis. It looks like you'd give a lot of that up on a skwal.

[sabestian]

I haven't ridden a skwal, but super quick edge-to-edge speed has never been a big draw for me. Do you honestly get to the bottom of a run and think "man, those were some sick edge changes!"?


Actually... yes, I do! But that's not the thing that makes me pick up the skwal over my board almost every time. It is rather their immense edge grip.



It looks like it would be a gas to try, but I don't see any mechanical advantage to them, so I'm sure I wouldn't make it my primary ride. The ability to make strong fore/aft weight adjustments is one of the biggest advantages we have over skis. It looks like you'd give a lot of that up on a skwal.

Erm... no. And the mechanical advantages become quite obvious when you start riding them. For one, the way you can dumpen the bumps with your knees without disturbing the edge grip or becoming unbalanced is absolutely unbelievable.

Sorry for stating the obvious, but you just have to try a skwal for a few days (just enough to get some control over it ;) ) to understand. The rest is just speculating. Simple as that.

[RobertAlexander]

first time out for an hour on skwal, conditions were sad as I looked for spots that had snow to lay it over, stability was fine once I got some speed, I need more time with it in good snow. I did switch back to my alpine board for the second hour to get a better comparison with the conditions that prevailed, like I said , i need some carving snow to make a better judgement, quick question, how many days do I put in on this 16.75" stance at 80/80 w 3 and 3 degrees, before I realize that something must change, or will I start to feel comfortable after a while?? Thank You

[RobertAlexander]

172/10.7/20/14/20

[*Ace*]

Nice!
Who made it?

Took me a good 3 days to feel comfortable on my first Skwal. The first day was a lot of experimenting with the stance.

[RobertAlexander]

me,myself,I(message to short)

[*Ace*]

Any more pics?

Are you starting a company or just pressing your own boards?

[Jack Michaud]

when is it a skwal and when is it a skinny alpine snowboard? Seems like angles of 80/80 still give you a heelside and a toeside. that seems antithetical to the skwal thing, no? I also thought stance width was supposed to be a lot narrower, if not heel-to-toe...?

[tex1230]

when is it a skwal and when is it a skinny alpine snowboard? Seems like angles of 80/80 still give you a heelside and a toeside. that seems antithetical to the skwal thing, no? I also thought stance width was supposed to be a lot narrower, if not heel-to-toe...?

I think the cutoff is around 14cm... I think the skinny virus boards are questionable.

[sabestian]

I don't think you'd be able to ride that board like it was a skwal with these settings. Too wide stance and alpine angles.

But I've heard about riders that use wide stances on a skwal. Also, there are wide skwals for powder and softboots.

The Virus has both narrow alpine boards and skwals in the offer. Perhaps we should ask them what they think is the difference?

I was actually well surprised how large was the difference in riding with this couple of centimetres missing. Much bigger than I anticipated. There must be some kind of a treshold, a border to your setting, crossing which changes the way you ride a board from alpine to skwal technique. It's a small adjustment (i.e. front binding at 0deg(90deg)? I donno) that changes everything.

[KingCrimson]

My 21 cm Tomahawk feels faster edge to edge than my 20 cm Coiler because it's so much more balanced. Having the additional stability of 7-8* lower angles more than makes up for whatever sluggishness could be attributed to the wider waist.

[zarkod]

I don't think you'd be able to ride that board like it was a skwal with these settings. Too wide stance and alpine angles.

You are right.
But the stance is not really the point, the real difference resides in the angles.
The skwal technique requires 0° on the front foot (and from 0 to some degrees on the back foot).
There is theorically no "front" and "back" turns, both should be similar.

[sabestian]

If the stance is not a problem for you (I find a wide stance on a skwal awkward and tiring, plus they require lots of heel/toe lift) than there should be no problems with setting these bindings to zero... I think it is your obligation to try this as a skwal. It is the right thing to do. :eplus2:

[KingCrimson]

I think the reason there is no front and back is because your heelside isn't afforded the mobility...It becomes as intrinsically weak as a toeside.

[tex1230]

I think the reason there is no front and back is because your heelside isn't afforded the mobility...It becomes as intrinsically weak as a toeside.

Have you ridden one? If you had, I would bet that you wouldn't make that comment. I found "heelside" to be much easier on a skwal...in fact, after riding a skwal in the morning and switching to my 19cm wide board in the afternoon, I found my heelside turns improving.

[*Ace*]

Its like the Swoard guys saying you need a certain stance and a certain board and a certain technique to EC, when that clearly isn't the case.

The stance, wide or narrow, is really meant to face the body more forward. There is no toeside or heelside because of your body in relation to the board. On an apline board or any regular snowboard you are limited to the amount of upper body heelside rotation due to the stance angles on your board. It becomes easier to rotate as the angles get higher. The Skwal eliminates this giving you equal upper body rotation to board sides of the board. I find that I still have a favorite edge to be on.

Slight angles and cants are signs of the progression of the sport I think. A wider range of equipment that suits an individual's personal style.

[KingCrimson]

Have you ridden one? If you had, I would bet that you wouldn't make that comment. I found "heelside" to be much easier on a skwal...in fact, after riding a skwal in the morning and switching to my 19cm wide board in the afternoon, I found my heelside turns improving.

Yup. Thias Easy Jungle. It felt very toesidey on heelside. Maybe this effect would be diminished if I spent more time on one.

[sabestian]

Mate, you have to be able to ride the skwal, to actually say that you have tried it. Again, sorry for stating the obvious. :freak3:

[KingCrimson]

Mate, you have to be able to ride the skwal, to actually say that you have tried it. Again, sorry for stating the obvious. :freak3:

Burning ten runs on one was enough for me to find it wasn't my cup of tea.

Rocking the 8m sidecut or whatever the Easy Jungle had was fun but the stance just didn't work for me.

Riding 90/90 angles was still not symmetrical from what I experienced.

[BlueB]

I've got an Easy Jungle too. It's been about 2 years since I rode it last, but this is what I remember of-hand:
It has lots of offset, I rode it forward or ref. stance.
I rode wider stance then ref. stance suggested, with toe/heel lift.
It hooked wicked turns. I was able to put my heelside hip to the snow right away, on a green run.
Toe and heel side differed a lot in initiation. Heel was easy, just drop the hip and it hooks in. Toe was struggle, I had to dive into the turns. That was with 0 front and about 85 back.
Later I backed angles a bit, somthing like 85 / 80 and toe side became a bit easier to initiate.
It worked in softer snow too and on mini-bumps on mild blue run. Didn't ride it on anything very steep...
Thias bindings that came with it are actually Skwal version of Snowpros. Came with lots of shimms.

Now I'm getting inspired to scrape it and give a go again. Well, after this period of rains and pow has gone...

[sabestian]

Toe sides more difficult than heel sides... That's our alpine habits playing up. You're trying to initiate the turns like it was an alpine board. Which it is not.

I think the problem is that the skwal is percieved as an alpine board because it looks similar. Your body does not necessarely recognize it as something different and tries to adapt to it with a known technique. And that creates missunderstandings and errors. One should start from scratch and forget most of the alpine technique.

Try to follow these excellent explanations by ObiOne: http://www.skwalzone.org/forums3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3396

[zarkod]

Yup. Thias Easy Jungle

The easy jungle is a limitated board especially if you are used to alpine boards.
According to me it is not well balanced, turns are not natural and personnaly I had great difficulties to ride it and I would not recommend it.
I did not experienced such problems with other skwal boards I tried (FC180, Sk200, contest, Mpride, Oxess, 173°F, RS176, ...)

[obi one]

when is it a skwal and when is it a skinny alpine snowboard? Seems like angles of 80/80 still give you a heelside and a toeside. that seems antithetical to the skwal thing, no? I also thought stance width was supposed to be a lot narrower, if not heel-to-toe...?

correct Jack!

what is a skwal?

From an "equipment" point of view (considering the actual major skwal manufacturers in the world e.g., M-pride, Lagriffe, Lacroix etc...) a skwal width "at the foot" ranges between 11cm and 13.5cm approx...wider width is ideal for skwal powder.

Modern skwal lenghts ranges between 173cm and 183cm (we are testing even 190cm with some manufacturers, but just for GS races...). Stance is approximately 4 cm or less...why?...you should ask to our friend Thias (one of the two skwal inventors in the early 90'ies) ...but as I said elsewhere, stance is highly personal. In any case if you stand up and put your feet perfectly in-line (90/90) with a very large stance, look at the angle/degrees between your ankle and calf of the front foot...no hard-boot is designed for that positioning - even in the walking mode... To respect phisiologically the lower body joints cants (from 3 to 6) are applied. The "heel-to-toe" stance makes you converge your weight and spread it into the smallest possible single place (possibly the smallest one) over the skwal base in order to absorb the maximum energy and to unleash it thanks to the camber-flex dynamics (the "bow and arrow" dynamic if you like). Short stance is the most used stance as far as we skwal in Europe...but Ace could be right to enrich skwal community with wider stances...why not? in fact nothing is written on stone to me...

mm...the only stone I would put is this one:
From a "technical" point of you it is skwal when you do not have angles on the front foot (0 degrees) and no or some angles (generally 3-5 max) for the back foot, as perfectly described by Zarkod before...I generally use 0/0 and I am happy...to clarify..."when you master a skwal you are lined up and you do not feel any strange pressure or traction heelside or toeside..." all turns are simmetrical except for style".

From a "ride" point of view it is skwal when you feel you are making a turn and you feel like you are making that turn as you would be riding a street motorbike into the turn...if you do not have a bike ...a bicycle is the same.


Combining "equimpment", "technical" and "ride" elements you might get the response on what a skwal is with respect a skinny board...

but, all in all, we are first carvers, bloody carvers...being either soft, moderate or nasty carvers...(and from here skwal and snowboard are the same)

to me...skwal is a frontal mind for a frontal turn

obi one:ices_ange

[mikel45]

Any suggestions to stop snow sticking to top sheet?

[zarkod]

Any suggestions to stop snow sticking to top sheet?

Perhaps you should go faster? :freak3:

[Andrew]

Any suggestions to stop snow sticking to top sheet?

I think I read once about lemon pledge working

[xy9ine]

pam. extra vigin olive oil.

[mikel45]

Pam
Extra vigin olive oil
Lemon pledge
Go faster :rolleyes:


Thanks all!

[mikel45]

Hey guys (Tufty, RobertAlexander and Ace), have been meaning to make a connection, we have a common interest - building our own boards.

Just wondering what kind of press you've built or are building?

[corey_dyck]

Pam
Extra vigin olive oil
Lemon pledge
Go faster :rolleyes:


Thanks all!
The best method I've found:
Let the board cool down in the rack while you put your boots on. I found that putting a warm board in the snow means the snow sticks on the topsheet very well, which means more can stick on top. If it's the same temp as the snow then that first layer has a harder time sticking.

[RobertAlexander]

I tried my first real day on skwal today. After a cautious few runs, trying this and that, i started to feel good and then turned the heat up several notches. I was throwing it around like it was a toothpick. I like it and want to do more. I used the same cut and flex as my alpine and it performed as expected. Front=85/3 deg rear=80/3 deg with a 16.75" stance, felt strange at first but after a bit I was ok w/ it. It forces you to ride with a forward stance all the time and turn by angulation, both hands over the board on turns, no back seating it here, pumping on turns where I could. The next one will be a 12 cm waist, I have got to see how narrow I can go.

[kieran]

I have got to see how narrow I can go.buy a ski and t-nut it.

[*Ace*]

12cm is pretty much the limit if you are using the Bomber TD3 Skwal bindings.







Hey guys (Tufty, RobertAlexander and Ace), have been meaning to make a connection, we have a common interest - building our own boards.



Just wondering what kind of press you've built or are building?

I am building my press out of I beams that I was able to recycle. My press will be similar to this one...
http://resource.grafsnowboards.com/images/press_anim.gif

The paint is drying on the press as I type. Still a while until the first board is built. A learning process for sure. Should be able to squeeze up to a 210cm board! I have a lot of shapes I want to experiment with. A great excuse to travel to South America this summer, R&D.
:biggthump

What do you have up your sleeve Mikel?

[RobertAlexander]

about that press in the pic, P1/V1=P2/V2

[tufty]

I'm using a screw press.

[*Ace*]

about that press in the pic, P1/V1=P2/V2



...and that means? Something about pressure and volume, but what about it?

[tufty]

...and that means? Something about pressure and volume, but what about it?
Boyle's Law, innit. Although quite what that has to do with the gif above I don't really see; it only applies to a fixed quantity of ideal gas at a constant temperature - pneumatic presses deal with varying amounts of real gas, and don't worry too much about temperature except in terms of heating the epoxy to cure it.

[mikel45]

What do you have up your sleeve Mikel?

Ace - Experimentation with vacuum pressed maple veneers as core. - Mike

[tufty]

Ah, horizontally laminated cores. You'll get flamed for mentioning those around here, of course, but the results are pretty good, if the "pop" remaining in my 2003 Hot Blast is anything to go by. I was considering that approach, but to get full benefit, you really need to laminate in the camber form, which makes subsequent core machining a bugger to do unless you happen to have a 5 axis CNC "lying about" doing nothing.

I'm doing "standard" vertically laminated cores that I steam-form to the camber shape before layup.

[obi one]

skwal USA is going big! :biggthump

one of them is a skwal legend, the other a big champion ...we need a "europe-usa" skwal event next year...asap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8ViXxEmtGU

obi one

[mikel45]

2011 Lineup: Carver & FreeRide (http://www.skwalusa.com/products/)
Here is SkwalUSA first run video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-5ykhjzQ8w) with final production prototype @ Buttermilk - Aspen, Colorado.
Thanks for heads up Obi.

[mikel45]

2011 Skwal Free Session
nice youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQGIF_37ZLk) footage

[RobertAlexander]

Over a few days I slowly bumped up to Front= 0 and Rear= 87, feels great

[zarkod]

Now ou are part of the fight club! ;)

[obi one]

Over a few days I slowly bumped up to Front= 0 and Rear= 87, feels great

stance?

[RobertAlexander]

16.75"c-c, 3 degree front/3degree rear

[obi one]

a clip of what we are up to in Europe when we come down to skwal as a community...

download and enjoy

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aschmann-gmbh.ch%2FVideos%2FPila%25202011.wmv&h=5a940


obi one

[sabestian]

Downloading the video... cannot wait!

BTW What is the common knowledge on heel/toe lift? I am using 3deg both feet, but I have been thinking of changing to 6 deg (both), but that means that I have to fabricate the wedges myself.

Obi One, have you experimented with this? Is 3deg toe front and 6deg heel back beneficial in any way?

[*Ace*]

Bomber makes a 6 degree Skwal cant for the TD3.

[monodude]

I ride in ski boots. I really like Catek OS 2's. I'm running around 10* rear and around 3* in front. (ski boots don't have the forward lean like an Alpine boot) If you can get them I highly recomend the Catek's. You can dial in anything you want.

Don

Feed the addiction...

[obi one]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lijvft85yGc

Obi One

[mikel45]

I really like Catek OS 2's. If you can get them I highly recomend the Catek's. You can dial in anything you want.


Don - did you have to modify the Catek to fit skwal waist width, if so, how? It pains me to even think of cutting my Catek base plates. - Mike

[obi one]

Downloading the video... cannot wait!

BTW What is the common knowledge on heel/toe lift? I am using 3deg both feet, but I have been thinking of changing to 6 deg (both), but that means that I have to fabricate the wedges myself.

Obi One, have you experimented with this? Is 3deg toe front and 6deg heel back beneficial in any way?

Hi Sebastian

Common knowledge on heel/toe list is 6 deg (both). Ace is right, go to bomber and buy them there, or go to PHK (http://www.phksnow.com/uk/home_uk.html based in Italy) and buy them there saying to Fulvio that Obio One suggested you this...he is a good friend of mine...

all experimentations with deg toe and heel are the proof that nothing is written on stone...except the 0 deg angles for the front foot :ices_ange

obi one

[sabestian]

Hi Sebastian

Common knowledge on heel/toe list is 6 deg (both). Ace is right, go to bomber and buy them there, or go to PHK (http://www.phksnow.com/uk/home_uk.html based in Italy) and buy them there saying to Fulvio that Obio One suggested you this...he is a good friend of mine...

all experimentations with deg toe and heel are the proof that nothing is written on stone...except the 0 deg angles for the front foot :ices_ange

obi one

Thanks, that is what I heard. On the other hand, on my SK200 I have 3deg front and back and all is comfortable.

I fabricated a wedge like the one here: http://www.phksnow.com/uk/skwa_uk.html (I believe it's you, isn't it?) but in 3deg flavour, I made it from polyethylene. If this technology proves itself, I will post how I did that. I like doing things myself...

[obi one]

Thanks, that is what I heard. On the other hand, on my SK200 I have 3deg front and back and all is comfortable.

I fabricated a wedge like the one here: http://www.phksnow.com/uk/skwa_uk.html (I believe it's you, isn't it?) but in 3deg flavour, I made it from polyethylene. If this technology proves itself, I will post how I did that. I like doing things myself...


yeah it's me ....

cool for 3deg both front and back or even less (have you ever tried flat?) flat will make you feel more "direct" on the skwal as far as the front boot has a certain degree of freedom to flex the calf backwards. If not, you feel to be constatly pushed (your weight I mean) forwards too much...
In any case,...the riding feel will tell your body if you are too radical or not, too extreme or not...

[sabestian]

It may all depend on boots' setup as well. Some time ago you mentioned that you prefer stiff boots, and I ride my Raichles with ACSS spring system.
The softer flex the boot is, the more tollerant to the lifts it becomes, perhaps? :D

[obi one]

It may all depend on boots' setup as well. Some time ago you mentioned that you prefer stiff boots, and I ride my Raichles with ACSS spring system.
The softer flex the boot is, the more tollerant to the lifts it becomes, perhaps? :D

think about water monoski...they do not use lifts because they use very soft boots...the harder the boot ... the more difficult is to play with the lifts...

I am experimenting ski boots and a complete step-in set up (i.e., step-in system front and back of the foot ... :ices_ange similar to the old burton 4x4 binding.....)


obi one

[*Ace*]

Bombers and Fintecs are ALL you need! Its a match made in heaven.

[tufty]

It is, I am reliably informed, quite possible to superglue jelly[1] to a plate. Doing so does not, however, make the jelly any less wobbly.

Simon

[1] Jell-O, for those living on the other side of the Atlantic

[sabestian]

You lost me there, mate. :freak3:

[monodude]

Don - did you have to modify the Catek to fit skwal waist width, if so, how? It pains me to even think of cutting my Catek base plates. - Mike

My Volkl Monocarver has an 11.5 waist and the cateks are 12 or 12.5 My Donek Skwal is just a tiny bit wider than the Cateks. I think a little overhang would be fine. Most people won't be getting it layed over to 90* so it shouldn't be an issue. Besides if they work and you don't like the overhang cut them.

Don

Feed the addiction...:eplus2:

[tufty]

You lost me there, mate. :freak3:
What I was trying to say is that if you're looking for rigidity, the first thing to do is remove your snowboard boots from the equation, not blow the best part of 500 bucks on stiffer bindings.

The "stepin" question for skwals is made more interesting by the fact that a good number of people ride with a ski boot up front and a snowboard boot in the rear.

[sabestian]

Not that I am an expert, but I think you get boot-out (at 0 deg) sooner than a binding-out. The first clasp on my Raichle would catch before anything else.

[sabestian]

What I was trying to say is that if you're looking for rigidity, the first thing to do is remove your snowboard boots from the equation, not blow the best part of 500 bucks on stiffer bindings.

The "stepin" question for skwals is made more interesting by the fact that a good number of people ride with a ski boot up front and a snowboard boot in the rear.

Is really stiffer - better?

[tufty]

Is stiffer better? Hell yes.

Can you imagine running a stiff alpine board with softboots and rental bindings, even if you could magically disappear the boot out problems?

Or, nearer to the point, riding a pair of top-end skis, as fast as you possibly can, wearing a pair of TR9s? Or Raichle / Deeluxe snowboard boots? Even my AF700s are less stiff than my work-supplied Adrenalines, which are, in themselves, way too floppy to be put near any sort of performance ski.

I hate to say it, but snowboard boots are woeful. they work for snowboarding due to short sole length, but when boot out is removed from the equation, as it is with skwal, I don't see any advantage over ski boots.

[BlueB]

You are right!
I tried my friend's Xennon skis today (soft titanal/carbon recreational carver). However, I was in my Dalbellos, softened and BTSed for snbowbaording. While they worked great on the flatter runs and slow speed, I was all over the place on stepper and choppier... I even got worried that I might tweek the ankles.

______


On the side note, reading this thread, I got inspired to pull my Easy Jungle from storage and take it for a spin after 2 or 3 years. What a hoot!
I pretty much forgot how to set it and ride it and it took couple of runs... I changed binding setup every few runs. I established that it could be ridden in about 3 distinct techniques:
- Wider stance, small angle in front, splay at the back, bindings somewhat forward of the sweet spot, led to a "snowboardish" type of ride. Efficient, yet unconfortable for the rear hip and groin.
- Narrower stance, 90 front, 85 back, knee behind the knee, ahead of sweet spot, was pretty usable and didn't feel like a snowboard. Still some discomfort in the rear groin.
- Narrower stance, 90 front, 90 back, rear knee to the side of the front knee, on the sweet spot, didn't lead to any discomfort, pretty efficient (but I need to explore it more). Felt a bit like, ummm, skiing.

Some funny comments from people in the lift lines... See the "Heard in..." thread.

Stepping back onto a (wider) snowboard right afer, was a bit commical - I almost killed myself. It took me almost 2 runs to "relearn" the alpine.

Anyhow, it was fun, I'll ride it more often next year, I promisse :D

[sabestian]

I don't see any advantage over ski boots.
Well, it is more a problem than disadvantage, but ski boots' sole length is just inapropriate for most skwal bindings if your leg is big enough. I am right on the edge (28.5 mondo) with most bindings I tried.

Anyway, I am so used to snowboarding with ACSS that I can't really tell if stiffening the boots would be beneficial for me. I like the way I can move front to back and absorb bumps using ankles. I guess I will have to try to remove the spring system and see if it feels any better (I can't really see how it could be more stable at speed - my SK200 is rock solid upto mach 3).

Interesting food for thought. :biggthump

[obi one]

You are right!
I tried my friend's Xennon skis today (soft titanal/carbon recreational carver). However, I was in my Dalbellos, softened and BTSed for snbowbaording. While they worked great on the flatter runs and slow speed, I was all over the place on stepper and choppier... I even got worried that I might tweek the ankles.

______


On the side note, reading this thread, I got inspired to pull my Easy Jungle from storage and take it for a spin after 2 or 3 years. What a hoot!
I pretty much forgot how to set it and ride it and it took couple of runs... I changed binding setup every few runs. I established that it could be ridden in about 3 distinct techniques:
- Wider stance, small angle in front, splay at the back, bindings somewhat forward of the sweet spot, led to a "snowboardish" type of ride. Efficient, yet unconfortable for the rear hip and groin.
- Narrower stance, 90 front, 85 back, knee behind the knee, ahead of sweet spot, was pretty usable and didn't feel like a snowboard. Still some discomfort in the rear groin.
- Narrower stance, 90 front, 90 back, rear knee to the side of the front knee, on the sweet spot, didn't lead to any discomfort, pretty efficient (but I need to explore it more). Felt a bit like, ummm, skiing.

Some funny comments from people in the lift lines... See the "Heard in..." thread.

Stepping back onto a (wider) snowboard right afer, was a bit commical - I almost killed myself. It took me almost 2 runs to "relearn" the alpine.

Anyhow, it was fun, I'll ride it more often next year, I promisse :D

BlueB,
thanks for sharing your skwal tests and trials with different set-ups...very interesting indeed!...If I might add a comment is to try some modern skwals next year...do not care about brands or types...if you get a chance try some modern ones and compare with your Easy Jungle...you will be surprised "positively", I suppose.

Obi One
PS-this thread has hit on something very good...hope this trend would increase next year....

[zarkod]

try some modern ones and compare with your Easy Jungle...

The easy jungle would end up directly thrown in the bin i bet :AR15firin

These boards were not too bad 10 years ago to learn skwal but now the should be forbidden, they don't really show what a skwal can be (the SK200 was already a better one) ! :)

For those in the area you should consider next week event :
http://www.skwalusa.com/blog/

A bit too far from France unfortunately ;)

[BlueB]

Or maybe?
.

[BlueB]

I'm sure it's a "Burton Alp" of Skwals. Yet, Alp has very important rolle in alpine - it's great for learning, then it serves as ok all-mountain board later...
I was actually impressed that Jungle wasn't too upset by choppy conditions I rode it in. It plowed through happily and didn't bounce around.
.

[*Ace*]

Ya, the Easy Jungle is still a go to board for me. Rode it today and it was super fun! Love riding that thing in the spring slop.

If you are going to get rid of an Easy Jungle please let me know, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

Nice pics Boris!

[obi one]

I'm sure it's a "Burton Alp" of Skwals. Yet, Alp has very important rolle in alpine - it's great for learning, then it serves as ok all-mountain board later...
I was actually impressed that Jungle wasn't too upset by choppy conditions I rode it in. It plowed through happily and didn't bounce around.
.


I like the last picture, really cool... other skwal pictures around? or clips obviously?

obi one

[zarkod]

Yes very nice last picture, if you can do that with a lamy jungle what would it be with a radical skwal board!

[BlueB]

Thanks for the kind words, guys!


I like the last picture, really cool... other skwal pictures around? or clips obviously?
Yeah, the pics are clipped from 2 clips. However, my riding is so grotesque at this stage, that I'll rather show only the few momments of glory ;)

[obi one]

Thanks for the kind words, guys!


Yeah, the pics are clipped from 2 clips. However, my riding is so grotesque at this stage, that I'll rather show only the few momments of glory ;)

BlueB,
the way you disengage (exit) the turns in the pictures shows that your weight is in the back...and the dynamics of it is clear by the pressure of the tail and the forward part of your skwal going up with no contact with the snow...good...most of the time you keep your arms simmetrical ...(except a single picture where you did not lined up)....arms are pushed forward...et the end of the turns...good. I just need a picture of the way you "engage" the next turn. In fact, one of the most diffcult processes is to move from your backward position (in the end of the turn) to enter the next turn...if you do it nicely ...well...then Zarkod is totally right ;)...and you might need to think to test and ride a modern skwal...but keep the easy jungle :ices_ange...

if you are interested go to skwal zone web site and check out the info about technique...you are on the right track...

also if you like go to my site "skwal club italia" and download this http://www.skwalclubitalia.it/English%20Tecnica-Skwal%20ADVANCED%20OK.pdf

PS - send around the clips! c'mon! we, skwalers, need more evidence!!!!

[BlueB]

I just need a picture of the way you "engage" the next turn.
I knom, I know, arms flying, upper boddy inclination...
On the heel side I tend to have counter-rotation, in lot of turns...
.

[Hilux]

Hey B, are you skwalin' with your Dalbello's or are you in Head's now? From the pics it looks like Head buckles... (I recognize the Head's are like CarveX/CRX and are the same shell minus din soles...just picked up a pair of CRX Freeride's cheap too). Anyway, great pics above! I have yet to try a skwal but is on my list...:D

[BlueB]

Dalbellos, always.

[obi one]

I knom, I know, arms flying, upper boddy inclination...
On the heel side I tend to have counter-rotation, in lot of turns...
.


yes! your pics sequence are important!! and informative...to avoid counter-rotation (either heel or toe side) think "motorbike turns"...think where are the arms when you turn with a street-motorbike...think about your body posture while turning with a bike...and counter rotation will progressively disappear...also, "charge" the skwal nose before your turn is completed...this will prevent counter rotation as well...

here are some of my pics about the arms positioning in the "lead" and
"disengagement" phases of skwal turns.

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/200396_153012211427113_100001550056310_303618_5290 881_n.jpg


http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/190474_153012184760449_100001550056310_303617_1865 738_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/198342_153012161427118_100001550056310_303616_3980 876_n.jpg


http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/190498_153012141427120_100001550056310_303615_3810 716_n.jpg


Also check out this clip and verify how I "exit" (or disengage) all turns...every time my right arm is not symmetrical with the left one...I loose balance and make errors...

http://youtu.be/_z0Gc1yFoAY



Obi One

[johnasmo]

For those who haven't seen many Sqwals in action before, I recently edited some follow-cam video of our resident Sqwal guy, Eric, from the local mountain (Whitefish, MT, USA). First one is from Feb, carving groomers on a Donek Sqwal replica; second is from May 8th hiking for late season turns on his "powder" sqwal.

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/y7Lf8OzGlcM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4PWs-n7UFOA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[obi one]

thanks for posting it :) ...nice footage.
Also the "spring skwal" clip shows also one of the first non in-line bindings... very interesting...
obi one

[Tatoos]

what are you doing with this board????? Spring???

[obi one]

I've watched "michelle 2010" and "first turns"...I whish I could feel and represent that freedom in my future skwal clips....thanks for your you tube memories... obi one
PS - skwal...not sqwal :)...but it does not matter that much...

[mikel45]

Sure would be nice to have the Skwal USA folks attend ECES 2012 event - would appreciate having demo opportunity.

[*Ace*]

It would be nice to have them come to both SES and ECES.

Hopefully by next year I will have some skwals for people to demo!
:lurk:

[mikel45]

YouTube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKz3kzUawRM) featuring Patrick Thias
Source: SkwalUSA

[obi one]

Philippe (orange suit) and Thias (with ski-poles) in action for Skwal USA again...:ices_ange

<IFRAME height=345 src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qRwT8LrRMyw" frameBorder=0 width=560 allowfullscreen></IFRAME>

[*Ace*]

Who is actually running Skwal USA? Thias?

Philippe RIPS!

[obi one]

Who is actually running Skwal USA? Thias?

Philippe RIPS!

no, Thias is just supporting them in different ways...


PS- my good friend Phil is pure magic when he skwals free...