15 Year Old wants to start on an Alpine setup

[Thomas_S]

Hi.

I'm fifteen and have been snowboarding on for about 4 seasons. Anyhow, I really want to get into carving so heres some information about me:

Height - 5'4"
Weight - 106
Shoe size: 10 <<<---- I'm an over-pronator.

I could really use some advice on this. Like what kind of board is best for someone my size. Oh yeah, and on a budget, too. That can last for a few seasons, not just one or two.

I'm not too fond of the snowboard parks. Not my cup of tea. Like I'll just say scew it, and go out with some of my friends on skiers when everyone wants to go to the park for hours on end. IMHO, it's just plain boring.

I've read the welcome center articles a few times each, and am really excited about this.

Also, last year I started to ride with my bindings at more extreme angles. Something like 30 and 25, or similair. \ \ Type thing.


Thanks for the help, and I'm sorry about the jumbled mess of a message.

[Derf]

Try to find either used gear or unused gear from previous years, you can often get some with good rebates. And also, focus primarely on the boots, because if your feet are uncomfortable, you won't have a good time snowboarding. As for the board, I'd say between 155 and 160 cm for your size and height. And a board not too stiff, it will be easier to make the transition. If later on the equipment you bough does not correspond to your style or preferences, sell it and get something else. But like I said, good boots first, I cannot stress this too much.

Derf

[Baka Dasai]

Because you only weigh 106 lbs, you're gonna have trouble bending most alpine boards. You'll need something a fair bit softer than the average to match your lighter weight. Perhaps a hard-boot oriented "all-mountain" board, or even a boardercross board.

If you want to ease your way into the carving side of things (both financially and in terms of technique), you could just buy hard boots and bindings and mount them to whatever board you're currently riding, at angles of about 45 degrees.

And like Derf says, get good boots that fit well.

[AlpentalRider]

If you can, try and pick up a Burton Speed 160 they are selling on ebay. Those aren't too stiff and work real well. Plus you should be able to pick one up for around $100-$150 shipped.

[Jim Callen]

I think the Osygen SX series would be pretty good for you as well. It's a boardercross board that is a nice medium-stiff flex for me, but for you would probably be a decently stiff setup. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I've got a 157 I'm considering selling, so if you're interested, e-mail me at jcallen_iv@yahoo.com

[wally sipes]

baka has your best idea. get some hard boots that are not too stiff, plates and put them on your current deck. i ride longer carving boards in the morning and switch to a freedide hardboot setup in the afternoon. large fun. good luck, wally

[trikerdad]

I tried the slow angle change when I went from freeriding to carving and found an area of about 35 to 50 degrees that was kind of a no mans land. I could heel and toe it up to about 35/15 and side to side it at 50/50 and beyond, but had a lot of probs in between. Is there anyone who rides at 45/45 degrees or in that range?

[joecarve]

Originally posted by trikerdad
I tried the slow angle change when I went from freeriding to carving and found an area of about 35 to 50 degrees that was kind of a no mans land. I could heel and toe it up to about 35/15 and side to side it at 50/50 and beyond, but had a lot of probs in between. Is there anyone who rides at 45/45 degrees or in that range?

Don't stop heeling and toeing...or rather, "toes down" on toeside, "toes up" (lift them up) on heelside. I'll catch myself not doing this, even at 63/60, and realize how much of a difference it makes.

Thomas - I'll chime in here on the boots as well...good fitting boots are a must. There are plenty of used boards and bindings out there. Make the boots your first priority. Oh, and welcome - you're gonna love digging arcs around your friends and turning heads on the lift. :D

joe...

[Kirk]

Have a '99 Alp 157 excellent/like-new condition (I know, need to get it back on the classifieds) - selling for $100.00 including ship in lower 48. The flex and length of this board would be ideal IMO. A very nice entry level, all mountain carving deck. Unfortunately, don't have bindings with 3D disks to sell (sold my race plates earlier this year). Lots of stuff out there. Like other posters have said, check classifieds here or ebay. Good luck and welcome!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by trikerdad
Is there anyone who rides at 45/45 degrees or in that range?
[waves hand] Me. 45 front, 40 rear. I like it a lot, but I'm an all-mountain hardbooter, not a pure groomer guy.

[FTA2R]

Hi,

definitely check out raceboarders.com ebay link. then you can save the search in ebay and be emailed everytime there is something new on ebay. ebay and the classified board here are great starts. alternatives are teh classifieds of other carving sites. you can try all the local shops, but unless you're sorta lucky or close to a decent mountain, I highly doubt you'll find anything. good luck.


Kirk, others,

just curious about something you said. Isn't the Burton alp you are selling considered more of an entry- level freecarver than an all mountain alpine board? I believe its lack of stiffness (and 200mm width?) make it more versatile than a raceboard or more advanced freecarve board, but I am under the impression it does not have the same functionality (ignore quality for a sec) as say, the Donek Axis...


---
Barry

[outsider]

eh man, just do what i did. compile a quiver out of what you can get on ebay.

[Thomas_S]

A few questions here:

The Oxygen SX Jim offered to sell: What are you views on that board, and my size etc. Also, Oxygen's site listed it as a freestyle/freeride board. What is the difference between freeride and boardercross? Same with the Burton Alp Kirk offered. Preferably, I'd like to have the ability to board in different terrain. Groomed, powder, etc.

Another question: What are 3d disks?

Also, what is best to look for in boots and bindings? I see step in and bail-types. In the soft boot world, step ins are really frowned upon. What about in hard boots? Do you also have to worry about compatible boots?

I'm sorry about all of these questions. But you know what, I have to start somewhere....

On another note: What is it like? For instance, does it take long to adjust to the equipment? I know I will have to scale back from the diamonds, but how much, or long?

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it.

[Mike T]

Difference between freeride and BX:

Others may give you a better, more technical answer.... but generaly speaking, a BX deck is usually stiffer, has slightly more effective edge given the same length, slightly bigger sidecut radius, and is slightly more directional. Many companies don't market a specific BX model but their top-end freeride board makes a good BX board.

3D disks:

Binding disks that ft the Burton 3D pattern, a.k.a. 3-hole or my favorite, A-hole pattern. Applies equally to soft gear.

Step-ins:

I believe most of us would agree that the Intec standard for step ins is widely accepted by freecarvers and by casual racers; you don't see too many serious racers using them, due to the fact that racers often prefer a little give in their binding and step-ins are often a stiffer interface than bails. (Others, feel free to refine or correct that statement.) I personally use TD2 step-ins and Catek step-ins; I love 'em.

I last used softie step-ins in 2000; when K2 started to pahse out the HB clickers, I jumped ship to straps. (I ride both softies and plates nowadays).

How long does it take to get going:

That varies widely by rider, and by whether you have access to good instruction, formal or otherwise, and finally by how well suited your gear is to you. My first two years on plates, I didn;t get very far mostly because my boots were a size too big and that screwed me up - and because I was not committing to the carve enough. A pair of boots that fit better and a couple of days riding with some very helpful individuals made a huge difference. I love riding with people who can kick my @$$, because I learn so much from them. On the whole, I've found other hard booters on the hill to be incredibly helpful and eager to share their knowledge and opinions, there are a few exceptions of course.

It is good to see some young-uns taking up plates. The sport needs new blood! Welcome!

[bobdea]

your boots make sure they are not too big
too small is okay as long as its not more than 3/4 of a size a good boot tech can add allot of room to a boot
go for somthing that is a little soft at this point a true race boot would not be ideal

burton 3D most bindings support it both bomber and catek will work fine with 3D
no worries there
stepins I like them intec is the best!

the mighty alp is a good board to start riding alpine on they are forgiving and are just dandy for most freeride conditions I had the 169 and it went everywhere with me, they trench alright too


personally I think that hardboots on boards that are meant for softboots rarely works well but that could just be me

[Kirk]

In answer to Barry's question, yes, it is a freecarve board that is versatile enough to ride on and off piste. As far as the "all mountain" category, probably not in the technical sense from the most contemporary (nose/tail & waist width, flex, etc.), but I think it kinda depends on the rider's perspective as well. I've ridden that little alp on hard-packed cord, thigh deep powder, crud, trees, and even some bumps and it performed well (managing to stay clear of rocks, etc - that's why she's still cherry!). Not much terrain park. I have yet to ride an Axis, 4X4 or Coiler AM (would LOVE the opportunity), so I cannot make a side-by-side comparison. From what I can tell, the alp probably would not handle the varying conditions as well as the Axis, 4X4, etc. But, it still holds an edge well on easy/moderate terrain at slow/medium speeds, forgiving enough to relax a bit once you've initiated an edge, and wide enough to enjoy the powder some. I had some old asym alps (157 & 164) that were stiffer than the newer generations. Those were fun too! The only Burton that I would guess to be similar to the function of those listed above (quality aside) would be the Coil (formerly e-deck), which I've ridden as well. Bottom line, the alp is still a good choice for a first carving deck. The other mentioned "all mountain" sticks would probably work great too!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Kirk
The only Burton that I would guess to be similar to the function of those listed above (quality aside) would be the Coil (formerly e-deck), which I've ridden as well.
Friend of mine has a Wire, which is similar in proportions and flex to my older ('99 I think) 4X4. The newer 4X4s (and AMs and Axis) are stiffer by quite a bit I understand.

[Kirk]

Oh yeah Neil, I forgot about the "Wire" being the third generation of those boards.

[Thomas_S]

Kent,

One board. Very little switch riding. I'm not sure about the turns. I'd like to be able to ride on varying terrain. Powder, groomed snow, etc.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Kent

But, I'm a firm believer is that hardboots are for hardcore carving/racing and recommend softies for all-mountain riding.....

Bah, I'm the opposite: softies are specialised equipment for freestyle. If you just want to ride the mountain, hard boots and an all-mountain board are what you want. At your light weight, maybe the Prior 4X4 in the 159 length, but talk to them first. Your other choices in that style are the Donek Axis (maybe too stiff for your weight) and the Coiler AM (Bruce can detune it for you but I think he's all booked this season).

[Derf]

There's one thing you guys (Kent, Neil...)seem to be overlooking when suggesting "Prior 4x4, Donek Axis and/or Coiler AM". If you read the original question, you will see he is on a budget, that means not able to afford a 550$US or 680$CAN board! And he also said he is starting.

In my opinion, when starting alpine snowboarding, any general alpine board will do, be it a soft slalom board or an all mountain board like a Burton Alp, it will do, then you can make up your mind on what you like and what you don't like. It's what I did, my first alpine board was too short and too stiff, I sold it and bought another board after 2 seasons and now I am happy.

Derf

[D-Sub]

you know what...one of those boards yyzcanuck has for sale might do good to start you off

that oxygen 158...maybe a little short, but with your weight the flex might be right, and its a little wider for a more all mountain ride...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Chris Houghton sometimes has used Prior 4X4s for reasonable money kicking around. There's deals to be had in the classifieds here. Prior's website usually has a few discounted/demo ones, although still a little pricy ($CDN575 for a 159 currently, that's about $US455). Older Burton Wire/Coil/Alps would work fine, probably great at his weight.

[Kent]

Originally posted by Derf
There's one thing you guys (Kent, Neil...)seem to be overlooking when suggesting "Prior 4x4, Donek Axis and/or Coiler AM". If you read the original question, you will see he is on a budget, that means not able to afford a 550$US or 680$CAN board! And he also said he is starting.



Nope, didn't overlook that. Budget is a relative term.....no parameters given. Check the used market.

Sounds to me that your advise is that any POS will do the trick. I'm offering a targetted solution.

A CHEAP snowboard is RARELY the least expensive option. For the price of your 2 POS boards, you could have upgraded from the start.....

I only recommended the Prior. Takes tooooo long to get a Donek or Coiler. I'm not saying the Prior is "better"....but it seems that Chris is the guy who is ramping up production to meet demand. It's a balance b/w quality and ability to ride sooner. Kudos to his efforts!

Kent

P.s. - Neil....I do admire your "hardboot" dedication, but let's be honest. Hardboots are for cord and gates!

[Thomas_S]

First things first....you need a diet full of whole milk and protein! 106...is that right?
Not really. I already eat well. I am also a long distance runner, which is an endurance sport. You lose whatever is too much in your training. Running sixty(60) miles a week at a good pace will do that.

Yeah, I do see where you were coming from though. For most, thats pretty bad. Okay for a long distance runner though. :D


Kent: Your right. Budget is a relative term.

For me, I feel that I could *possibly* afford an Axis or 4x4. However, that could mean making cuts in other areas. If I could find one used that would make life a lot easier. However, if a new board was a better route, and could last a while, I might be able to make ends meet. Another question. On Donek's website, they also have the FreeCarve, which is shorter than the Axis, and the same price. Would this board also be good, or no? I realize they are different styles of board, but would either be good as my first Alpine board?

Again, thank you for all your help. No doubt some of you are probably fed up with me. :D

[Mike T]

Originally posted by Thomas_S
Another question. On Donek's website, they also have the FreeCarve, which is shorter than the Axis, and the same price. Would this board also be good, or no? I realize they are different styles of board, but would either be good as my first Alpine board?

The Freecarve, especually in the narrower widths, is more if a groomer-only board. The freecarves are also noticably stiffer than the Axis 167 and 172 which will be a huge thing for a light guy such as yourself.

I have the Axis 172 and I'm in the high 190s, and I think the flex is right on. I am guessing it would be way stiff for you.

[thomas_m]

When I first started loking for an all mountain board for my wife (100lbs) I called Prior since I have a 4WD that I like. They told me the standard 4WD 159 is made for someone weighing around 150lbs. So, I'm guessing it will be be too stiff for you.

You should probably look at teh Oxygen SX boardercross board mentioned above. The 157cm is rated from 40kg -75kg. Also the smaller sized F2 Speedcross starts around 40kg.

I think the Speedcross looks like a great option.

Thomas_M

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Kent
Neil....I do admire your "hardboot" dedication, but let's be honest. Hardboots are for cord and gates!
I'm never in the gates and I prefer bumps, powder or trees to the cord. I don't own soft boots.

[Kent]

Originally posted by Thomas_S
Not really. I already eat well. I am also a long distance runner, which is an endurance sport. You lose whatever is too much in your training. Running sixty(60) miles a week at a good pace will do that.


I admire young distance runners. Keep yourself healthy and I'll see you at an Ironman some year. I'm 90% certain I'll run the Badwater Ultra next year.....

Alright, I'll be blunt again.

If you can't get the Axis or the 4x4 on the used market, there are several "boardercross" boards that might do the trick. Start an ebay search and try to track down a older Volkl Cross. But...this really opens another can of worms b/c the width starts getting pretty wide....and you'll lose that lovin carvin feelin. This is the part where you might be better served on (2) different boards. As Derf mentions, older alpine decks are nearly given away and stiff freestyle decks have turned into a comodity.

My guess of budget

Carve----
ebay Burton FP board - $100
ebay Snowpro bindings - $75
Fin's Rachel 413 boots - $150

Freeride----
ebay Rossi Seone or Levitation - $75
ebay Burton Freestyle bindings - $75
www.the-house.com any POS boot - $75

total Budget - $550

[D-Sub]

Kent

you kinda throw that "POS" term around a bit much. Just because a board isnt brand new, didnt cost full price, etc, doesnt mean its a piece of poo. The way you used that term in your first response was a bit abrasive dontcha think?

what about a burton speed then? those seem like theyd be a fairly good all around board, and they routinely show up on ebay...too stiff?

[Derf]

Originally posted by D-Sub
Kent

you kinda throw that "POS" term around a bit much. Just because a board isnt brand new, didnt cost full price, etc, doesnt mean its a piece of poo. The way you used that term in your first response was a bit abrasive dontcha think?

what about a burton speed then? those seem like theyd be a fairly good all around board, and they routinely show up on ebay...too stiff?

I agree with the first paragraph, with a small distinction: I think POS to him is a Burton Alp/Wire/Coil or any other that is not popular here. My first board was a Freesurf Highlander that I paid 100$CAN new, not a POS in my opinion, just not for me. I sold it and then bought a Nitro GTX, other brand/model unpopular here, but I am very satisfied. Several people here like Rossignol, but I personnaly would never trust a board with a foam core (if they are still like this). And about the Oxygen Dave is selling, I'm not sure if it has one. I know the older FR series had wood cores (but were too soft), and I read on their site that the ones replacing them had foam cores (or something similar).

About the second paragraph, I never rode a Speed, I though it was like a FP, but after reading several posts, I think it is a little more like a UP. Maybe a bit stiff for someone who weights 106 lbs.

[D-Sub]

yeah, maybe a bit stiff

[Kent]

Originally posted by D-Sub
Kent

you kinda throw that "POS" term around a bit much. Just because a board isnt brand new, didnt cost full price, etc, doesnt mean its a piece of poo. The way you used that term in your first response was a bit abrasive dontcha think?

what about a burton speed then? those seem like theyd be a fairly good all around board, and they routinely show up on ebay...too stiff?


You're making assumptions. I never said cost or being brand new had anything to do with it.

Burton Speed? Good for newbie racer/carver, bad for all around board.

[D-Sub]

ok...you didnt say it directly but you seemed to imply it in a way, and using the POS in conjunction seemed to lean even further in that direction

[Thomas_S]

Ok, I've been looking around, and reading up on some of the boards recommended here.

Over at klugriding.com, they have a brand new '98 Burton Alp 151, 157, and 164 for $160.

I guess my question is, would it be wise to purchase an Alp, use it, and get started carving? Then, sell it later, after I have managed to get carving for a while?

Also, I will be keeping my current soft boot setup for other terrain, etc.

Kent: You ultra-marathoners are insane. Good luck to you though. Maybe one day I'll have gotten the ultra bug. :D

For now though, the 5000m and 10000m will have to do. Sad though that HS doesn't run the 10k in XC, or either in track. :(

[D-Sub]

the one thing to think about with Burton is that youre limited in your binding selection. Burton only. Catek will fit 3 hole, too, but thats about it as far as I know.

man...where's that guy from last year that was selling all the Oxygen boards? dude had MANY boards on ebay!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Yeah, but he can get some Race Plates cheap off ebay or somewhere and they won't be a problem at all with his weight. I think the alp/race plate setup would be a fine choice.

[sic t 2]

Thomas,

Consider that there is absolutely no reason why you can't carve on soft boots and a freeride board. In fact you should be able to put down gorgeous arcs in the snow on any burton freeride/freestyle board with soft boots on. And in many ways its more rewarding since it takes a very deft touch to do it. Granted you can't do it on plate ice (can't bust through) nor can you get as "low" on regular groomed slopes). Which is a bit of a mute point anyway for few on hardbooters can do that for very long (get rad bomber low) before their legs turn to rubber and they are back in the lodge. Yes, there is the extreme carving style, which does not load your legs as heavily, but noone here accepts that style of riding and they put great effort into discreditting it every chance they get (even if it takes bogus board reviews to do it). Probably because of the very high skill level required to do it.

So if you don't have the bucks just go back onto the slopes next month believing that "it can be done" on softboots. All you really need to do is read this article. That's all you need for now. And if you find you carve and you carve damn well, then make the investment later on because this game is definitely for you.

http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/feel_the_carve.cfm

Sic

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
Yeah, but he can get some Race Plates cheap off ebay or somewhere and they won't be a problem at all with his weight. I think the alp/race plate setup would be a fine choice.

not like it matters what I say, but, agreed:)

its just...finding a 4hole board/binding combo would be more convenient due to interchangeability. thats all.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by sic t 2
Thomas,

Consider that there is absolutely no reason why you can't carve on soft boots and a freeride board.

he's got an absolute point.

Im gonna ignore the other crap, because its just that...crap. no one here tries to discredit anything, and the board review in question had NOTHING to do with bomber

[Thomas_S]

I did spend the majority of last years season working up to making the full switch to hardboots. I could probably recite "The Norm I and II" in my sleep.

Do not try and make me look like a fool sic t 2. I understand the costs involved, both financially and time, in switching over to a hardboot setup. Believe me, I would not be doing this if I did not.

It is a challenge that I am ready, and willing to accept. Although this only occured after my understanding the sacrifices to be made.

Yet do not think I don't appreciate your thoughs on this matter, because I do. Everyone's. I thank you all for helping me, even though I am no doubt starting to annoy you all.

[D-Sub]

youre not annoying anyone, man

the dude had a point tho...with a proper "regular" board and good soft boots one _can_ certainly lay some damn good carves

but...Id be willing to be that youre already there?

as for putting together an all alpine setup and "sacrifices"...if you look at a hard setup as a specialized tool, and apply it in proper situations, no real sacrifice is being made.

in any case...I think I sent you an email about the boots I have for sale...theyre not the newest bestest but for your size and weight theyd probably work great. I didnt hear back from you but maybe you took a look at the auction.

[Thomas_S]

Thanks D-Sub. I thought I replied back. But, after looking through my sent messages, it turns out I didn't. Sorry! I accidentally hit save. Anyhow, I don't know how good those would be for me. Do they offer a lot of support, as my ankles are kind of weak?

On another note: I talked to Sean over at Donek. He was very helpful, and we considered a few possibilities. One was a 153 McMillen Slalom. He feels that it would be a nice board to start on for an alpine setup, and it will be able to serve me well if I ever decide to start racing(which would not be this year, thats for sure).

Sean's eMail:

[Given your weight and size, I actually wouldn't recommend either of the
boards you selected. We've had most luck putting young riders like yourself
into slalom setups for a first board. Many of these riders wind up racing
or freecarving on a slalom board until they gain a bit more weight and
become very comfident with the new stance and controling their edge. There
are a number of boards in the 153cm to 160cm size range that should be
excellent choices for you. If you give me a call we can discuss your needs
and experience and find one that will help you make the transition smoothly
and be a board you'll enjoy riding for a long time.

Note: Just plucked out the relevant part.

Now, heres the kicker. $550. Whoa. Now, if I were to go with this, some things would have to be done. For instance, I'd have to go with some used bindings, and definitely used boots. Although, after a quick search I found:

D-Sub's Burton Earth boots on eBay. Need to find out about how much support they offer, though.

Bindings? Looking for a used pair of Cateks or Trench Diggers. Quick question. What are the major quality differences between the two manufacturers?

[D-Sub]

hmmm...support...well...theyre hard boots, so...ankles are pretty much taken out of the equation for the most part, no?

those boots I have would be considered "soft" compared to modern hardboots. Not soft like soft boots but not as stiff and rigid as say Raichle AFs...

but...honestly...I rode in them and got by, and I weigh 200

BUT...they are NOT stepin compatible, so...if you wanted Intec or FAST stepins, these wont work

theyd work with the burton rat trap types though...

[Kent]

Originally posted by Thomas_S
Looking for a used pair of Cateks or Trench Diggers. Quick question. What are the major quality differences between the two manufacturers?

Thomas, Thomas, Thomas....

You must stay the course here! Fin and Jeff make great products, but have NO business being on someone your size. If you love Fin (like we all do), just buy some of his X-Bones. Just too stiff.

The binding choice is easy...Burton Race or SnowPro Race. That's it, don't consider anything else w/o prior approval from your elders. ;)

Back to the board. Dude...you're making this purchase waaaaay too difficult on yourself. It now seems that you're more concerned about a race deck than a all-mountain stick. Which, BTW, is fine. Personally, I'd buy a "nice" SL deck and call it a day.....

Heck, here's your board....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21250&item=7105582699&rd=1

[D-Sub]

yeah...heh...you dont need those bindings yet, nor the donek really. seem to be damn fine boards though!

Kent...you reckon on that nitro?

[Thomas_S]

Kent, Kent, Kent

I never said I was going to race, thats just the board recommended to be by Sean Martin over at Donek. I also said "If I were to ever" :D Thats just whay he told me. Five hundred though? Nah. Thats just way too expensive. I just wanted to get some opinions regarding that. Re-reading my post, my thoughts are definitaly slanted against the Donek.

My original intentions haven't changed, they just became more informed.

Now, the Bindings: The reason I jumped to that was because I wasn't too impressed with the craftsmanship on the Burtons, from just looking at the pictures of them over at klugriding.com

Look at it this way:

Running 90 miles a week while building a base in the summer is insane on a pair of shoes, when most last only for about 300-400miles, unless you stumble upon a good pair. So I decide to go to K-Mart and get four pairs of $20 shoes instead of 1 $100+ pair. Cheaper in the long run, right? They'll last the same amount of time, too! So I go out on a ten miler and find out, half way through when it starts raining that the glue is water-soluble! (Stolen from Running with the Buffalos, paraphrased, of course).

I really hadn't looked past that quality viewpoint, especially not on the stiffness part.

That, and from what I've read, the Carriers are prone to breaking. Some Races were also recalled for breaking, too. So the quality control kind of scared me away from their bindings. Thoughts?

Ok, with an Alp:

What length? 151, 157, or 164? Narrowed down. $160. I can take that.

[D-Sub]

I think the issue with burtons breaking was with heavier people. At your weight and size, the forces you will be imparting on this board will be nowhere near the forces I would impart, or even less so than someone my size who rides extremely aggressively

note:

when I first started carving, I rode a burton PJ7, with standard burton plates.

I had that board for 8 years. I rode it a LOT the first season, and then moderately after that, always hitting as hard as my skills allowed, and I even spent a lot of time in the air, trees, riding rainbows, etc

the bindings never broke on me! I had a release or two, but that was when I kept the toe bails lifted for easy release. my bad.

BUT:

If you choose an ALP...your choices for bindings are limited to TWO. Burton or Catek

oh..and..those alps at klugriding are from what...98 was it? 97? Personally I think you should be patient (no snow til december really anyway!) and hold out for another board with a 4hole pattern.

and if you dont like burton bindings...check out the SnowPro Kent mentioned. They have a decent reputation.

[thomas_m]

Thomas_S,

I have an Oxygen Proton 147(an SL board) that you can have for $50 including shipping if you want it. The weight range is about 90-140lbs.

The topsheet is a little scuffed but the board has never been ridden. I originally got it for my wife who weighs about the same as you but she ended up wanting a wider all-mountain ride.

Thomas_M

[corey_dyck]

Originally posted by D-Sub
If you choose an ALP...your choices for bindings are limited to TWO. Burton or Catek
That's not true. My Bomber TD1's seem to stay attached to my Alp 169 pretty well. ;) You've just got to make sure they have the disks that look like this: http://www.bomberonline.com/store/bindings/parts_td1_disk.cfm

I got them from the classifieds here for around $150 shipped - cheaper than many new bindings of lesser quality. You don't have as many stance width choices with TD1's and the Burton 3D pattern as you do with a 4x4 pattern.

[FTA2R]

Thomas_S,

I'm also very light (although heavier than you) and I have an Alp 57 w/ Race bindings. I got the whole thing on ebay toward the middle of the season. I feel quite secure in them. I think most pepole agree that they are fine for lighter riders. Now the Burton Universal cant sort of stinks. I'm not sure if Burton only has a universal cant or if they have fixed cants. And the Burton Race, generally speaking, isnt' even in the same league as Catek or TDs, but I personally don't need to start off on the highest quality stuff, not while I'm still a carving newb anyway. I'd rather ride the hell out of my board now, usually a person knows when they're ready to move up.


I don't know when your season starts, but if you order the board from klugriding, it'll be there in a few days. The Alps aren't expensive, but personally I would try to go with something used for your first setup, as long as it is in decent condition. Inevitably, like everyone here, you will fall in love with carving and want to upgrade. Pay particular attention to the boots, though. Boots that dont' fit properly really stink. Of all the things to buy new, I would go with the boots. They have a very reasonable return policy here on Bomber, too.

Check raceboarders.com ebay link frequently for at least a few more weeks. Also, though the chances of success on this are likely limited, try your local shops to see if they have any old boards lying around.

good luck!


---
Barry

[Derf]

As for Burton bindins, it really depends on wich model. I would stay away from carriers (all plastic), but I think the Race would be OK since it has an aluminium plate underneath the plastic. I ride Burton Performance bindings with an aluminium baseplate under the plastic and never had any problems with them (and I weigh ~175 lbs).

As for the board Kent suggested, it is a nice board, the same I ride but in a different lenght. The seller says it's a race board, but I personnaly think it's more of a freecarve board.

Derf

[bobdea]

and factory prime are the same boards different years at least in the shape its seem that speeds are a bit softer than the FP but not incredibly
any of the smaller primes/speeds are are either youth decks or womens both would suit you just fine I think

I have a new prime 151 with stepin performance plate bindings(they are usable but I would recomend some cateks or bombers) here if I dont give it to my ex I will sell it for $130 shipped
not sure if thats what I want to do yet though but on ebay you can find them with bindings for the same price
one thing with the SL decks that is great is that the sidecut is close to that of your average soft setup so they can be turned at lower speeds with little effort
the burton earth boot is decent the only thing I dont like about it is that is does not work with intec

I recomend boots being the first priority as well its important

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by corey_dyck
That's not true. My Bomber TD1's seem to stay attached to my Alp 169 pretty well. ;) You've just got to make sure they have the disks that look like this: http://www.bomberonline.com/store/bindings/parts_td1_disk.cfm

I got them from the classifieds here for around $150 shipped - cheaper than many new bindings of lesser quality. You don't have as many stance width choices with TD1's and the Burton 3D pattern as you do with a 4x4 pattern.


DOH!!!!

whoops. totally forgot about that!

:)

[Thomas_S]

Ok, I'm going to go through these posts real quick:

D-Sub = Thanks for clearing that stuff up for me. Glad to know my binding won't rip off anytime soon.

thomas_m = Ok, I'm kind of interested in the Oxygen Proton 147 your offering. However, is that long enough? It seems a bit on the short side. Just want to make a good purchase, thats all.

Barry - Thanks for all the help. I'll try some local shops, too. Thanks for the link to raceboarders.com also.

corey - thanks for the tip about the choices you can make with a 3d pattern compared to the 4x4.

Derf - Stay away from carriers. Got it. Thanks for the tips.

Ok, another question.

I've pretty much narrowed my boots down. The Raichle 413's. Size 28 mondo. Same with bindings. Leave the TD's and Cateks for the future. Not now. Too stiff. So, its probably a pair of SnowPro Race bindings. Anyone know where to find a pair? None on eBay right now.

Just the board left......

Thanks everyone. Again.

[Kirk]

Here is the link to Dan Yoja's site. He is THE rep for snowpro bindings in North America:

http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~yoja/index.html

I don't remember seeing 3D disk options for the Snowpros though. If they aren't available, you'll have to stick with 4X4 insert boards (meaning no Burtons). Good luck!

[D-Sub]

I dont think SnowPro has a 3D disk!

plus..yoja wants $200/pr for the snowpros...almost hte price of catek or bombers...

Id be patient, find em on ebay. you still have time til snow

[bobdea]

Burton plates as long as they are the race plate or the physics are just as good look for some used plates when it comes to anything other than the real bindings out there
I really think anything that has plastic is not worth your time when as even dated stuff like a TD1 or catek WC would be fine in the long run(does not shatter on when it gets nasty)
the ghetto binders are great to learn on but you will replace them once you feel comfy with hard boots so I would recomend going with a decent pair in the first place
3d ? welll if snopro does not work with it its a good reason not to use their binders anyway

[Thomas_S]

Originally posted by thomas_m
Thomas_S,

I have an Oxygen Proton 147(an SL board) that you can have for $50 including shipping if you want it. The weight range is about 90-140lbs.

The topsheet is a little scuffed but the board has never been ridden. I originally got it for my wife who weighs about the same as you but she ended up wanting a wider all-mountain ride.

Thomas_M

I'm sorry, but another question.

What do you guys think of this board? Length? Stiffness? I'm really interested in it. Now I just have to email thomas_m about it.

Thanks a lot guys!!! Another nice thing is that I could upgrade the bindings a bit, since I will save a large sum of money with this. Same with boots.

So....

The Oxygen Proton 147
Snowpro Race LTD Bindings (No Step-In
Raichle 413 SB Boots

Thanks for all the help guys, and I can't wait to get out on the slopes....

Although it's gonna be a long month and a half.....

[Randy S.]

Buy it before I do. $50? Thomas_M, If T_S doesn't take it, I'll buy it for my 10 year-olds next board (he probably won't be big enough for 2 more years, but how could I go wrong?)

All the people I've known who had that board liked it.

Randy

[thomas_m]

Yep - My thought is I'd rather give it away to a young carver for basically shipping and handling rather than pitching it on eBay...

If my son was a little older I'd hang onto it but he's got lots of time yet. My wife saw the sharp corners and basically said "nowayinhell, get me an all mountain like yours..."

T.

[D-Sub]

ahahahhahahahahahahha!!!!!