TD3 Sidewinder SI mod ready to test

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I plan to test my first mod to allow use of my Fin-Tec Stepin boots on a TD3SW binding this coming week.

A few details:

Only Bomber binding parts were used.
Mods can be undone without any major damages to the components used.
Alignment of the axis of the "sidewinder" pivots is maintained.
Maintain the main features of TD3 step-in bindings with the additional benefits
of the Sidewinder design.

I took photos during the process / changes. I will post photos after I have tried the mods out.

These mods are NOT recommended nor approved by anyone associated with Bomber Industries.

Bryan

[Fastskiguy]

Can't wait to see this!

[Hans]

So Snowman deleted his thread about the Sidewinders SI (FIN caught him on his embargo :eplus2::eplus2:).

Hey, Bryan good job. You can send me the pics, can't wait to see them. Happy testing!:cool::cool:

I am waiting for those kneesavers.....

[Snowman]

Who me? Don't know what your talking about. :eplus2:

Think Snow!

[Hans]

May be a solution could be a thinner plate between the e-pads and the intecreceiver for mounting it to each other (instead of the normal soleblock). Can't be that hard to design with the right software and machinery. We'll see.

[Hans]

Who me? Don't know what your talking about. :eplus2:

Think Snow!
I saw you Snowman. You are just hiding around the corner with those SW SI's.

[Galen]

Cool! My lazy ass cant wait to see them!:)

[nekdut]

I NEED to see this. I like what SWs do for my riding, but I want step ins! :)

[D.T.]

I NEED to see this. I like what SWs do for my riding, but I want step ins! :)
I was talking to Fin yesterday regarding the Sidewinders; he misses his SI's also. I would bet it is just a matter of time before Bomber releases the SW-SI.

[heroshmero]

Well Bryan? Did you get a chance to test it out?

We're waiting.....

[Hans]

Well Bryan? Did you get a chance to test it out?

We're waiting.....

He is just testing it now this very day!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

USE THIS INFORMATION AT YOUR OWN RISK!! This is a mod NOT tested nor indorsed by BOMBER or even myself for that matter.

The test was done at MHM today. My mods worked well, allowed me to step in and still benefit from the new Sidewinder pivots. I will download some photos and post them here shortly. I do NOT recommend you do this.
I have chosen to do this mod on my own for my own benefit not anyone else's.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Well Bryan? Did you get a chance to test it out?

We're waiting.....

Yes SIR!! Coming up.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

This mod is not recommended by anyone including myself or BOMBER Industries.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Photos of a mod that is NOT recommended by anyone including myself or Bomber Industries.

Fin or moderators, any issue with this posting at all? Feel free to delete it.


I used a TD2 Cant to lower the total height.
I think it is actually easier to step into that the Std TD3 SI

The parts are simply the toe and heel blocks from a TD3 SI. NO other parts used.
The rest you can see/ or figure out.

Use of this mod may result in death or serious injury. It is untested by anyone with much sense, just a old fat guy that doesn't want to bend over.

[Snowman]

Most excellent work Bryan! Tell us why you used a TD2 base plate and bumper instead of a TD3.

Think Snow!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Most excellent work Bryan! Tell us why you used a TD2 base plate and bumper instead of a TD3, please.

Think Snow!
Thanks , glad you asked!
I found the height of the mod'd binding to be taller than I like. Plus, I am getting plenty of movement without the TD3 Cant. In fact I am looking to install stiffer elastomers in the SW to stiffen them up a bit more. I may also put a red elastomer in the front Std TD3 bindings to help with this.

Other tid bits:
Turning the toe plate around provides clearance for the main mounting bolt
and minimizes the cantilever effect of leaving it the normal direction.
It also helps to keep the boot more centered.
The result of this stacking (even with the use of the TD2 cant plate) is slightly taller than the std TD3 SW binding.
My boot is a AF600 M29/ This mod limits the adjustment range considerably.
Don't you dare right click and save as these photos, I will know if you do :nono:
This is a good way to make one untested risky binding out of two perfectly safe and trusted bindings :smashfrea

[nekdut]

Nice work Bryan! How did you actually attach the pieces to the SW lowers?

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Nice work Bryan! How did you actually attach the pieces to the SW lowers?

I drilled and tapped the orginal SW plate for the two original bolts from the TD3 SI. Funny, there are dimples machined into the SW toe and heal blocks EXACTLY were I drilled. They line up perfectly with the original parts. Four holes total.
How they are attached exactly is a little more tricky. To get enough meat
to feel completely comfortable you need to .................

[heroshmero]

Did you drill and tap the toe and heel block in order to add the second toe block and the heel receiver? Or was there enough clearance to just drill and nut it?

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Did you drill and tap the toe and heel block in order to add the second toe block and the heel receiver? Or was there enough clearance to just drill and nut it?

I guess you were still typing? Beat you to it :)

If a person was to drill clear through, the nut would hit when you flexed the bindings. We wouldn't want that!!!:eek:

[heroshmero]

Looks like I was a moment too late on that question. Thanks for answering that Bryan.

[heroshmero]

To get enough meat
to feel completely comfortable you need to .................

Are you trying to get us to guess?

:o

[Fastskiguy]

could you go over the disclaimer just one more time? :)

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

could you go over the disclaimer just one more time? :)Sure, glad you asked.

DON'T DO THIS. It may cause serious injury or death. NO one including myself or Bomber Industries is suggesting you turn two perfectly good bindings into one untested one that will surely KILL you. Just turn and walk away before you die. NOW!!!!!!!

[Fastskiguy]

Man, that is one hell of a disclaimer. I turning around right now. But not before I say.....AWESOME!!!!!

[martyagt4]

Heli-Coiled?

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Heli-Coiled?No, basically just drilled and tapped.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Man, that is one hell of a disclaimer. I turning around right now. But not before I say.....AWESOME!!!!!

PS. I ran it up to 57.9 mph just to make sure today!! No, really!!!

[lowrider]

If it can't be tinkered with it wasn't worth making in the first place ! Could a plate be attached to make heal and toe work in unison ?? :biggthump

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

If it can't be tinkered with it wasn't worth making in the first place ! Could a plate be attached to make heal and toe work in unison ?? :biggthump

Thought about this. Very possible. You would need to address covering up the center? Possibly the mounting bolts too. I was concerned that they pivot on the same axis. I was/am concerned about possibly independent action causing release. So far I have not had an issue.

[nekdut]

Would it be possible to use the SW heel block as the toe piece, saving a little customization work, as well as stack height?

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Would it be possible to use the SW heel block as the toe piece, saving a little customization work, as well as stack height?

Do you mean use it as the toe block? Yes, if you change out the bale. Then you have to deal with the nearly 1/2" height difference. That is one of the things I worked through. You end up shimming it , poor toe bale alignment, blah, blah, easier to use the TD3 SI toe block. Much easier. The TD3 SI heel raises the boot up allot, probably more than most folks notice.

[bobdea]

Bryan, you need to delete this thread right now!
you're making me want to pull the trigger on a set of sidewinders real bad and that can't be tolerated.

good work!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Bryan, you need to delete this thread right now!
you're making me want to pull the trigger on a set of sidewinders real bad and that can't be tolerated.

good work!

Thanks Bob, yes, I had to bite the bullet and get a set with the hopes of something like this mod making them more useable for me. 462.50$ delivered. They are indeed very well built and a huge step forward in the evolution.

I should mention a hot tip another BOL member pointed out to me. If you have the Fin-Tec heel and buy the TD3 SW bindings, you will find it somewhat more difficult to slide the heel into the heel bale. If you are a Std user with the normal soft heel, no issue. I watched Tinkler get in his like, well and young guy, I noticed he had the non Fin Tech / Intec heal.

So if you commit to using only the Std TD3 bindings, change to the standard boot heel to make life easier.

[nekdut]

I should mention a hot tip another BOL member pointed out to me. If you have the Fin-Tec heel and buy the TD3 SW bindings, you will find it somewhat more difficult to slide the heel into the heel bale. If you are a Std user with the normal soft heel, no issue. I watched Tinkler get in his like, well and young guy, I noticed he had the non Fin Tech / Intec heal.

So if you commit to using only the Std TD3 bindings, change to the standard boot heel to make life easier.

That might have explained some of the difficulties I had. I thought I just was not used to using standard clip ins. I also had a ton of ice build up on my heel, and didn't have a fintec receiver to kick on.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

That might have explained some of the difficulties I had. I thought I just was not used to using standard clip ins. I also had a ton of ice build up on my heel, and didn't have a fintec receiver to kick on.

Yep, with the heel being just a bit taller and squarer (is that a word?:o) it tends to hit the bale and push it down. Lifting the toe helps of course, but also adds to the difficulty when you are standing on a slipery angle etc.

It is not just you! ;)

Good stomp pad rules in the PNW. A slight bummer is the Fin Tec heel grip is so sharp and ridgid it can cut the tops right off my Dakine Spike stomp pads.:mad:

[Dave ESPI]

OSB, nice work!

I felt the yellows on the TD3 were too soft for my taste. Having put them on the td2 blues and bases I'd imagine they were really nice and responsive. * (considering you are heavier than myself) did you have any delay in response, or did it just soften the ride the perfect amount and allow you to cantilever the board with your legs and still have it react as it would without the sidewinders but just a softer elastomer set of TD3 bases? any canting, or are your bases both zero ?

I had mentioned how I thought using just one sidewinder on the back foot had merit for overall movement. Perhaps a stiffer setup in the front and soft in the rear would be more accurate use of such in this case?

curious about your thoughts on it since you have been tinkering with them more than most of us at this point. :biggthump

[digger jr]

Bryan,
Just was wondering how your experiment was going?

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!!!!!!!!


Great!! I am so happy with my simple mod that I went ahead and converted the other binding. Currently my new default is using the modded bindings on the back foot and a TD3 SI plate in front. I use a yellow TD3 cant in front and a yellow TD2 cant in back or any mix of elastomers. The TD2 cant is lower and almost makes up for the added height the mod creates. Photos shortly.

I found that all though I did like forgiveness of the TD3 Std (w blue) , After a dozen days I determined I did not like the timing and board angle that I gave up to get it. I know it is small, but I found it was very noticeable on really good firm chalky days. On icy, mixed or soft snow days it was still a good thing. PS. I really don't care for the "Standard" bindings.

Two additional developments:

1) I have added a grade #5 5/16th bolt in the original shaft hole and drilled and tapped it M6 to create additional threads , then used the longer M6 bolts to extend the thread distance.

2) Looking at modding the SW plate to allow a "Stop" set screw. This would allow me to change the range of travel on either side of the pivot point. Currently no photos available.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Use At Your Own Risk!!!!!!!!!!

[digger jr]

So you changed your front bindings from TD3SW with blue toe/heel pads to TD3 step ins?

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

So you changed your front bindings from TD3SW with blue toe/heel pads to TD3 step ins? Yes, correct.

[digger jr]

Have you tried them on the Tanker/powder? What do you think the difference in flex between the SW and F2's? Full of questions today I am.

[b0ardski]

Thanks for the pioneering efforts Bryan I will be putting some Nitro heels on SW next season.:biggthump

[Michael Pukas]

Use At Your Own Risk!!!!!!!!!!
What's the purpose of the bolt you added that runs perpendicular to the SW pivot, where the original heel bail through-pivot-bolt was? I didn't see that in you earlier photos.

[KingCrimson]

It works like Ikea furniture, he drilled and tapped it.

[kjl]

Seems sketchy to have those bolts going through that part of the sidewinder, no? With all the material missing for the heel-bail right on line with the bolts...

That extra "Ikea-style bolt" with threads tapped looks like it helps but it seems like that bolt can't be that much wider than the ones holding the heel receiver on (so drilling it would leave it with really thin edges)

Or am I reading it wrong?

Anybody know if/when an official bomber sidewinder SI version is coming out? I've heard only good things about the standard sidewinder but I'm not giving up my SI's...

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Seems sketchy to have those bolts going through that part of the sidewinder, no? With all the material missing for the heel-bail right on line with the bolts...

That extra "Ikea-style bolt" with threads tapped looks like it helps but it seems like that bolt can't be that much wider than the ones holding the heel receiver on (so drilling it would leave it with really thin edges)

Or am I reading it wrong?

...

Grade 5 bolt , save the Ikea bull$hit , ok? If anything it strengthens the binding. Not that it is needed.

The Grade 5 bolt replaces the shaft Bomber TD3 SW comes with. The original aluminum hollow shaft is what the Standard bale turnbuckle bolts to.
Only material removed during the mod is the M6 holes to bolt the TD3 SI components to. It does require careful use of the drill and tap. The bolt provides allot of thread purchase and the GRADE 5 Bolt fits very close in the original hole. In other words, the tolerance allow little room for it to go anywhere. Another day today of a 250lber travelling fast and hard. No issues.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

What's the purpose of the bolt you added that runs perpendicular to the SW pivot, where the original heel bail through-pivot-bolt was? I didn't see that in you earlier photos.

[QUOTE]1) I have added a grade #5 5/16th bolt in the original shaft hole and drilled and tapped it M6 to create additional threads , then used the longer M6 bolts to extend the thread distance

[kjl]

Grade 5 bolt , save the Ikea bull$hit , ok? If anything it strengthens the binding. Not that it is needed.

Hey, hey, Bryan, the "ikea" comment wasn't meant as a dig at the quality - just as a descriptor of how (I think) it is going together: The "standard" 90 degree connection on ikea's wooden furniture has 1) a little cylindrical plug which has a threaded hole drilled sideways through the side of the plug. You stick this plug into a little hole in the side of one piece of furniture. Then 2) the real bolt goes in from the side into the threaded hole in the plug. I think they do that so they can get metal threads inside a particle board surface where it would normally not be easy to stick a t-nut or something else.

It sounds like you did the same thing? Just trying to figure out exactly how you modded it...

I don't know anything about machining or woodworking, so I have no idea what the real name for that connection is called.

[lowrider]

Excellent idea but you may have to explain it a few more times for the engineers to understand it. The longer bale bolts give more meat for the heel reciever bolts. The ones comming in from the top. Good tinkering :biggthump:biggthump:biggthump:biggthump:biggthump

[kjl]

I don't know anything about machining or woodworking, so I have no idea what the real name for that connection is called.

Ah, they are called cross dowels:
http://www.woodpeck.com/media/crossdowels.jpg

Seems like the mod is more accessible for somebody like me if I used some 5/16" cross dowels since I do not have the equipment to tap a bolt like yours precisely (or at all), assuming the cross dowel hole is the right size. Also, it would make it so you would not have to tap any threads in the heel sidewinder heel block either - you could rely solely on the cross dowel...?

Would be a pain in the butt to remove and reinstall the heel block, though - the cross dowels would wander around in there and you'd have to line them up again. I guess you don't do that very often, though...

[BlueB]

... is also the thingy that you see in the centre of the F2/Blax/Proflex toe/heel blocks. Also on the underside of the Snowpro toe/heel.
It is funny how the people not familliar with the F2s always go for that bolt in attempt to change the binding length and then they are bewildered by the fact that it won't turn :D

[b0ardski]

Hey Bryan, why are you only using SW on the rear? Just for testing?

[robert tucker]

i had the oppertunity to ride with bryan for a bit at mhm last wensday on his new td3sw mods. this guy knows what the f he is doing! smooth perfect carving through all conditions!! good job bryan

[pow4ever]

Can one use grade 8 bolt? If it's good enough for my engine :)
or is there some concern for grade 8 bolt being brittle?

i don't have the balls to drill/mod pair of $350 binding; but awesome mod!!! backyard tinkering at it's best.

Come on Bomberonline TD3 SW SI.

--
David

[corey_dyck]

Anybody know if/when an official bomber sidewinder SI version is coming out? I've heard only good things about the standard sidewinder but I'm not giving up my SI's...
I was one of about 1 thousand* people that asked Fin about that at SES. I get the feeling he's working on it but it's a challenge. If you're comfortable going higher off the board and adding weight like Bryan did it's not too hard. Knowing Fin he wants to optimize things to be lighter and lower while still allowing for a full range of easy adjustment.

* A thousand inquiries might be a little high. Almost any time anyone was talking about the Sidewinder someone piped up to request a step-in version.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Hey Bryan, why are you only using SW on the rear? Just for testing?

I currently have modified bindings, this means taking 4 perfectly good TD3 bindings and making TWO modded TD3 SW SI bindings. As a result I am using them were I find they work the best for me. Yes, I am trying numerious combinations to find the optimum for my needs. After using the original TD3 SW in front and my modded SI in back. I felt like I was giving up a bit more board angle than I cared to do on the better condition days. This likely being the combination of the Std bindings, SW, TD3 Cant plate with blue elastomer providing a bit more "Give" than I wanted under some conditions. Add to this I still had sever pair of TD3 SI (non SW) bindings to use. Long answer to a short question. ;)

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Would be a pain in the butt to remove and reinstall the heel block, though - the cross dowels would wander around in there and you'd have to line them up again. I guess you don't do that very often, though...

Not when it is a solid bolt traversing the toe/heel block. The "halved" bolt head acts as a knob so to speak. It can be removed easily if the modded bindings is returned to it's original configuration.

I have not been in a IKEA store yet, although there is one a mile from work. I have gotten the impression it is good value , yet perhaps lower quality furniture? That paired with "Sketchy" doesn't sound like what I am typically associated with. Fair and healthy critical thinking is welcome. Anything less, is well, gone. Thanks for your explaination.

[kjl]

Not when it is a solid bolt traversing the toe/heel block. The "halved" bolt head acts as a knob so to speak. It can be removed easily if the modded bindings is returned to it's original configuration.

I have not been in a IKEA store yet, although there is one a mile from work. I have gotten the impression it is good value , yet perhaps lower quality furniture? That paired with "Sketchy" doesn't sound like what I am typically associated with. Fair and healthy critical thinking is welcome. Anything less, is well, gone. Thanks for your explaination.

Oh, I didn't even notice I wrote "sketchy" :) It looks like before you added the cross bolt the bolts holding the heel receiver down would only get ~2 thread turns in the Sidewinder before it encountered open air (the hole for the heel bail) and then ~2 turns on the other end. I thought that looked "sketchy" since it looks like ~3-4 turns in what is the thinnest section of the sidewinder heel block. But with those 3-4 turns PLUS the threads in the cross bolt it should be even stronger than the original bail configuration.

Yeah, I have no doubt it is easy to line up the crossbolt on your mod - I was just pondering: if I did this mod myself, I would probably buy 2 crossdowels per binding since I don't have the ability to tap a bolt precisely like you, in which case I would have the problem of wandering crossdowels if I ever removed the heel block.

Heh, having seen your boards and your riding, I'm sure whatever you do is overkill for me - I don't put nearly as much power in the board and I weigh probably ~60% of you :)

[lowrider]

Do you notice or feel flex in your boots between heel and toe ?? Do you think independent flex between these two points could create issues with boot failure??

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Do you notice or feel flex in your boots between heel and toe ?? Do you think independent flex between these two points could create issues with boot failure??

No, I don't. This of course doesn't mean there isn't any. However, I do not see, feel or hear any sign of movement in the boots.

Related side note. I DO however notice that getting in is even smoother. I believe this is due to the SW flex. As I put my toe in and step down, the heel movement helps in fact to make up for any miss-alignment I have created while stepping in.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I will probably restore one pair of these to their original configuration and sell them. Look for this in the sale thread soon?

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Have you tried them on the Tanker/powder? What do you think the difference in flex between the SW and F2's? Full of questions today I am.

This is an excellent question. I can say now that the modded TD3 has a similar , maybe not quite as much range of motion as the F2 binding. The TD3s lateral flex is similar however the toe /heel is non existent in comparison. I think the F2 probably will continue to be my choice for the powder setups.
I am ready to build the next mod of the TD3SW SI . This will be lower and more work. I did not like the added height of my first version. I would prefer to not have two different binding systems. It would be ideal if all my boards had the cants mounted and I could just swap the top plates around. This is what I have been doing on my alpine gear for years. Nearing a point where I can simply swap my plate around with bindings already mounted and ready.
This would be sweet.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

I wonder how close Fin is to producing an official TD3 SW SI???

[Puddy Tat]

I wonder how close Fin is to producing an official TD3 SW SI???

OMG OMG OMG. I'm hoping for next season.

I still think these would be amazing for AM riding.

[Terryw]

Crossed fingers here as well!!!!