Good carving freestyle??

[NS Racer]

Just want to hear some opinions as to what people are using when they are not hard booting. I am looking for a soft boot set up for play days away from my 184PR, But I still don't want to be skidding my turns all the time. All comments and ideas welcome

Thanks

[D-Sub]

Id bet a Donek Incline would suffice

or the axis, but...thats still more of an alpine board

[Mike T]

... or Wide or Sasquatch depending on your boot size and softioe stance. I have the Wide 161 and it's very carve-friendly.

Other options:

Salomon Fastback, or older Salomon models - 550 or FRS.

That's all I have personal experience with that I'd recommend, but here's a list of other boards that have been recommended to me:

Rad Air Tanker
Rad Air LSD
Prior MFR
F2 Eliminator
Voelkl Cross

[D-Sub]

man I just went and checked the donek site...now I want a **** incline.

heh. funny **** innit

[Matt D]

I don't know about the doneks... you guys in the USA love em cause the price is far more reasonable for you than it is for a canadian.

NS racer... I assume you ride at wentworth or martock right? I would suggest a prior. If you have you instructor cert, you can get an awesome deal on 1, and if not, they are still reasonably priced for canadians.

I am ordering an AMF for my "play days" when I just want to go for a fun ride, with nothing to serious going on. I like to carve too, so I know where your coming from. I discussed my idea with Chris Prior at ECES last year. I was having so much fun on my burton dominant, but I found it lacking in the edge hold department. Chris told me he could put together an AMF with a soft flex along the length while keeping torsional stiffness, and overall carvability.

do you have a budget?

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Matt D
I don't know about the doneks... you guys in the USA love em cause the price is far more reasonable for you than it is for a canadian.


I have a Donek Incline right now and it's very good as people have said. I definitely wanted to look at some Prior freeride/freestyle boards though, but the prices for the new boards are tad high for us in the States (higher than almost any board you can buy here). Are there sales or something (aside from used/demo equipment... which is what I might do for my next board). Will Prior send you a demo board to try out for free?

I'm a little confused though... a Donek is $360USD, even with a 1.5 exchange rate that's still only $550CAD... Priors are selling for $700 CAD. Are there a lot more taxes in involved? Even with GST, it should be less (but I'm not a Canadian so I've purchased stuff in that direction).

[Flash]

I ride a Palmer Carbon Circle when I ride soft boots - great all around board and still very carvable. Has alot of pop. The Catek Freeride set-up is sweet.

Donek is also coming out with their new Phoenix line - same usual super Donek edge hold, but a bit softer with more sidecut that the Incline. Better for bumps and pow.

Flash

[AMWOOD]

Lets all have a look outside the box, shall we...


http://www.steepwatersnowboards.com/

http://www.glissadesnowboards.com/home.htm

[LeeW]

Been a long time fan of Lib Tech Emma Peel 157/159 (depending which plates they decide to use for the year). they're consistently 8.0 meter sidecut which I so dearly love -- squirrely style of turning/carving, esp in halfpipe riding.

Recently ordered 159 Scotty model of 04/05 Lib Tech. 8.2 sidecut radius should satisfy my cravings for squirrely turns.

Debating on whether to get a Burton P1 Carbon bindings or Catek Freeride bindings or both for 04/05. Burton's big plus is the adjustment of the highback to parallel to the edges regardless of the angle it's tilted towards (I ride duckfeet). Catek's is of course, a nice hard carve esp can be used on alpine with 3rd strap or booster straps. Minus of Burton would be the angles for use on race boards, as well as Catek's feasibility to use on halfpipe riding.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by AMWOOD
Lets all have a look outside the box, shall we...


http://www.steepwatersnowboards.com/

http://www.glissadesnowboards.com/home.htm

actually just signed back on to mention glissade

Ive always wanted one...back when they made the connosieur board with the character holdin the big ol' bud...

I was up at wave rave in august, and they had I think three Glissades (that I saw...) 175, 185, and 195 I believe.

they also had a Klassen custom Prior at around 176...and a few of them steepwaters (Klassen's company I believe)

all were on sale for very good prices. almost walked out with a glissade or two:)

man...if I didnt have a little self-control Id go broke buying snowboards

[Bubba]

I have a Forum 157 with Ride Team binders that I use for teaching. Carves excellent and is a fun, smooth board to ride. Worth a look.

[rick ferguson]

Small toy's for little boy's What is up with the pinner boards? So many "MEN" riding short boards in a forum of railing. Just curious , who rides a board that short and claims to be a carver? I've seen so many people looking to buy sub-160 boards! Is this a crew of the midget militia? Get off the green and step into the black!Go big or go home!! Just an opinion , don't get your panties in a bunch:)

[AlpentalRider]

geez guys, do you even freeride in softboot setups? Most of the recommendations given are just like the hardboot setup rofl. If your gonna softboot, then why ride something just like your hardboot setup?

If you're looking for a good softies setup for freeriding and backcountry I would recommend the following boards in a length between 162-167 for a 160-220 pound rider:

Burton Raven 163/166 (Johan Replacement for 05)
Option Signature Series SM (Stiff Motha)
Head Intelligence (excellent board with microfiber tech)
Ride Timeless (soul carving)

For bindings, I would personally stick with the Burton P1 Carbons. Gonna be hard to find a better fitting and performing binding out there.

For boots, buy what fits your foot. Fit is #1 when it comes to them. Try on Salomon Malamutes, Burton DriverX, and Nothwave, those 3 are sweet freeride boots.

[D-Sub]

glissades, donek inclines, and the steepwater boards arent anything like alpine boards. some of them are definitely directional, but...a bit of an exaggeration there

and about the short boards...I have a 161 for SoCal days and 178 oxygen somethin or other for powder, so yeah, i have some "mens" boards:)

[NateW]

Just want to hear some opinions as to what people are using when they are not hard booting.

Converse Chuck Taylors, the best sneakers money can buy.

More seriously, I'm pleased to see the > 10m sidecuts on the steepwater boards. If by some terrible circumstance I had to ride in soft boots, I'd look for something like that. I'd still be yearning for hard boots and a good all-mountain alpine board though. :)

[lonerider]

Originally posted by AlpentalRider
geez guys, do you even freeride in softboot setups? Most of the recommendations given are just like the hardboot setup rofl. If your gonna softboot, then why ride something just like your hardboot setup?


I agree in general... that the whole point is to get something that is NOT like a hardboot setup... so if you are hesistant to ride in a "normal" setup (which is softboots for 99% of the world), you hardbooter purist opinions are kind of at odds with the purpose of this post. I'm still mainly a softbooter myself (60/40 split).

The Donek Axis is still a hardboot board in my opinion (yes blah blah blah Catek Freerides, blah blah Nidecker, blah...), but the Incline is not - is a little stiffer and crisper than the Ride Timeless (which was also a nice board). Still a little carve-centric, but not bad in the park/pipe. Definitely mediocre on rails, in the the trees, in powder in my opinion.

The Prior AMF is a freestyle board that is meant for the whole mountain (different from the MFR). I haven't tried it, but I would like to.

Salomon boards that Mike T mentioned at definitely in the freeride/carving end, The Definition is a true carver, but the Forecast is more versatile. But again... they are nothing like an alpine board to my limit hardbooting experience

What else... well I don't like Forum boards in general (even for freestyle). I have a Neversummer Evo for freestyle, which is great for park and pipe... very mediocre for anything else the Premier or SL would be better for an all-around board. I've never ridden a LibTech so that's a (?) for me as I don't have an opinion. I don't like Burton boards in general either... BUT the Custom is a decent board according to my friend. Dragon is a nice board that I've ridden... good carver, lightweight... just some question of them breaking easily.

AlpentalRider, have you actually demo'd the Head board? I mean the K2 Electra had a similar "general" idea a couple of year ago... but most people (including myself) couldn't really feel much of a difference.

I would avoid the Voekl Cross or F2 Eliminator as they are BX boards (again not in the full spirit of softboots). I'm not sure about the Steepwaters and the Rad Airs either.

Here is my current board selection (I'm 5'8" 150 lbs)

Alpine: Madd 170 with TD2 Stepins (hopefully)
Freeride: Donek Incline 155 with Catek Freerides
Freestyle: Neversummer Evo 155
Powder: Burton Fish with Burton P1MD bindings

On the two ends... I feel like the Madd and the Fish are exactly the type of boards I want for those disciplines. In the middle, while I like the Incline and the Evo... I wouldn't be against replacing them with one or two boards in the future if I find something better.

[ncermak]

Hayes Brothers....

[$trider]

I still freeride in my soft setup quite a bit, but prefer a really stiff board torsionally and in the tail so I can still rip with it. My all time favorite was a Salomon Freeride 164. I currently have an Atomic 167 that I really like a lot as well. They changed all the names for this years boards so I'm not sure which model it is now(was the one with the mugshots on it), but I can say that it has a lot of snap, good balance in the air and didn't cost all that much. I rode a Nidecker the year before based on my happiness with my race board, but it lost its camber after a half season and then was like riding on a wet noodle. Hope some of this helps.

[bobdea]

173 and 181 were primo in the pow and held up very well everywhere else and my 173 took a insane amount of beating and still held up just fine

donek sasquatch 170 great at speed decent in the pow but a terror to land on if you are not perfectly lined up
this board is stiff and requires allot of input to be ridden well but is rewarding if you put enough into it

Ride yukon 169? killer deck if you weigh under 230 or so I loved mine but at moderate speed it was a little floppy at high speed it was scary
killer in the park though I now wish I had not dumped it because it was so easy to ride and it was soft and nimble good for the eastcoast trees

lib tech dough boy 193 killer for those wide open pow runs hell in the bumps I wish it was not so turny for its length a board that long should be expected to be more stable at high speeds
it was rather nice to land on as well

if I had to choose a softboot setup to do it all it would be the never summer legacy 170 or 174 they are not too stiff ,super damp,easy riding,well built and will trench as well as any freeride setup out there

a legacy could not replace a longboard or my donek Sasquatch though

if I had smaller feet I would suggest a Burton Johan those boards are great

[johann]

f2 eliminator. woot!
164

[LeeW]

Originally posted by bobdea

lib tech dough boy 193 killer for those wide open pow runs hell in the bumps I wish it was not so turny for its length a board that long should be expected to be more stable at high speeds
it was rather nice to land on as well



Oh you got those? Ive consider gettin' those boards. Just a bit wee-bit too long for me. Im 5'10" and 200 lbs. I know that Mike Olson rides 'em considering how tall he is (HE IS TALL!) and he says he loves to ride on 'em. Im debating whether to get Dough Boy 193 or Grocer 180. We'll see.

Turny-- 11 to 9 sidecut progressive. That's a bit turny. Is it still turny when youre carving on them ?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by LeeW
Oh you got those? Ive consider gettin' those boards. Just a bit wee-bit too long for me. Im 5'10" and 200 lbs. I know that Mike Olson rides 'em considering how tall he is (HE IS TALL!) and he says he loves to ride on 'em. Im debating whether to get Dough Boy 193 or Grocer 180. We'll see.

Lots of love here for the Rad-Air Tankers which come in similar lengths. I've got a used 200 I picked up at the end of last season that I can't wait to try out. I think it's an 11 m sidecut. If you do a search you'll find lots of posts about them.

[rick ferguson]

Nice to see some freeride post's in the OVER 160 range!

[Hugh]

Good discussion, good ideas.

My last true freeride board was the 159 LibTech Emma Peel. I could carve frontside, but backside would not come around with the angles that I was using. I was 70% carving and 30% freeride (three years ago). Problem was: whenever I got on my freeride setup on the groomed, I wanted the carving sensation.

Fast forward a few years: I now own a Prior 4x4 174cm (awesome board) and I still have my freeride powder board Santa Cruz Flame 164cm wide (old standby). Then, I had to score a Burton Fish 156cm cause it was on sale (159cm was not available). Again, after seeing Rick Ferguson carving on his O'Sin 4807 178cm, I had to buy one too (only $150 for new in the wrapper).

The long and short of it is I no longer enjoy softbooting. Plus, with a quiver like mine, there is no reason to softboot.

My 0.02...

Hugh

[philw]

I guess I can't really answer the original question as although I've ridden soft boots they, well, just too soft.

I don't know what the "free" word means - it's used and abused by any marketer who wants a positive word. For powder I just clip the boots in a Fish and get on with it.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Hugh
The long and short of it is I no longer enjoy softbooting. Plus, with a quiver like mine, there is no reason to softboot.
Hugh


Originally posted by PhilW - NOT Hugh... I was lazy and copy and pasted but forgot to edit
I guess I can't really answer the original question as although I've ridden soft boots they, well, just too soft.

Hardbooting is awesome, and I don't mind it if some people want to become hardbooting specialists, but could we not rag on someone who wants a freeride board? I would like to repeat AlpentalRider's request to actually try and help the author find a freeride board (and not just powder specialist board like the Fish). I know Rick carves it up on a 4807 in all conditions, but he could carve it up on a 2x4, us mere mortals need more versatile gear.

You are welcome say you opinion anytime you want, but that doesn't mean you opinion is always helpful... and do you think telling the author that you can't see why you would ever ride softboots again your as a very inclusive, welcoming and tolerant post for hardbooters.

It would be like vegetarians commenting on a request for a meat loaf recipe. (my apologies if I offended any herbivores).

[Hugh]

I'll leave my above post unedited, so you can read what I wrote.

The first quote by Hugh that you posted: states my current snowboard belief. I first began snowboading in 1996 with my Santa Cruz friend, Jim Farr. In 1999, I bought a Burton Coil and hooked up with Hiroshi and the Bay Area Carvers. Jim and I also met Kirk McClure at Dave's in Tahoe City. Kirk (Squaw Valley) is the BEST carver that I know, very humble guy and awesome symetrical continous carving lines...unreal. My point: in 1999, Kirk told Jim and I to switch over to hardbooting/carving fulltime to learn it. I didn't, I crossed back and forth. sometimes too much softbooting and sometimes too much hardbooting, oh well live and learn. I finally realized (for me) that carving gear for groomed runs and softboots for powder. Then, I bought the 4X4 and 4807 for hardbooting. I wanted a Fish too, so I bought it.

My post yesterday states that I used to ride the Emma Peel (like others have posted), good board for interested freeriders, no? And my 164 SC Flame, good for power and freeriding, no?

As far as the second quote that you stated that I said, that isn't me that said that, it was philw, so please don't hold me to what others have said.

I hope others don't see me as ragging on anyone, we are all free to choose what and when to ride. I look forward to riding with you this coming season.

my 0.04...

Hugh

p.s. Lonerider, please don't post another question for me to answer, I want my reply to rest here, thanks.

[Matt D]

I think this thread has gone a little off track.

The original question was a freestyle deck, that can carve too. Then people started talking about the Prior 4WD, the Donek Axis, and boards in the high 170's and 180's.

Sorry people, but I believe most of that to be way off topic. Who is going to hit the park, spin 3's, butter, and play like that on a carving oriented board? Not I!

Not sure where NS Racer has disappeared to, but it would be nice for him to clarify this a little bit.

My thoughts would be a board in the 150-160cm range depending on his size. Also a non-directional shape makes for better switch riding and landings. Soft enough to butter and manual, but stiff enough to hold an edge well and provide stable landings.

Rossi (Premier), Atomic (Albin), Burton (Dominant, Uninc), Flow, Head... etc all make boards that would fit this description.

IMO these are more what he's looking for.

[lonerider]

Sorry Hugh, I wasn't trying to direct the answer directly at you, just the very noticeable trend to drag the subject back towards hardboots. You mention directing a question at you, but I never did ask you a question. My main line was



I would like to repeat AlpentalRider's request to actually try and help the author find a freeride board (and not just powder specialist board like the Fish).


I'm was trying to keep the topic on target - your post did start off by suggesting a nice freeride board for softboots and that was fine. But then you kind of went off topic on a kind of anti-topic tangent that PhilW placed an even stronger emphasis on. I apologize for the second quote, that was me being lazy trying to quote someone and I copy and pasted the line, but forgot to edit it. (I have since corrected it).


Originally posted by Matt D
I think this thread has gone a little off track.

The original question was a freestyle deck, that can carve too. Then people started talking about the Prior 4WD, the Donek Axis, and boards in the high 170's and 180's.

Sorry people, but I believe most of that to be way off topic. Who is going to hit the park, spin 3's, butter, and play like that on a carving oriented board? Not I!

Not sure where NS Racer has disappeared to, but it would be nice for him to clarify this a little bit.

My thoughts would be a board in the 150-160cm range depending on his size. Also a non-directional shape makes for better switch riding and landings. Soft enough to butter and manual, but stiff enough to hold an edge well and provide stable landings.

Rossi (Premier), Atomic (Albin), Burton (Dominant, Uninc), Flow, Head... etc all make boards that would fit this description.

IMO these are more what he's looking for.

Yes, Matt D basically stated what I was trying to say. Again, I understand and a handful of people can freeride/freestyle extremely well in hardbooters, but they are exceptions to the rule. The author wants something that is different an alpine/hardboot setup, but not a completely lunch tray either.

[northcoast]

I LOVE to carve. I also love to butter, hit the rails, launch of booters, and spin until I'm dizzy. I need something that does all of the above. Obviously I'm biased but the board for me that is the new Donek Twin 161. The twin is one of two new models coming out this year. (Phoenix is the other.) Same Donek quality and performance but in a more flexible true twin tipped package. It is completely symmetrical making switch riding much easier.
________
REVIEWS OF PORTABLE VAPORIZERS (http://vaporizer.org)

[NS Racer]

Sorry guys I was away with work. Wow what a lot of responses. I realize it started to get a little confusing without any clarification. However there is still alot of useful information which is what really matters!!
After hearing everyones opinions I find myself wondering if soft boots is what I really want. Maybe I just need a free carve board and soft shell boots. The more I thought about it the more I found myself only wanting the soft set up for Powder and geral "off-trail" riding. I think I may find my self in the same boat as most of you guys in that I would spend most of my time wishing I had a carving set-up below me. I think my choice will be the Coiler 172 All Mountain.

Thanks for all the input. But I think I owe it to Bruce to stick with him after the quality and workmanship that went into my 2004 Pure Race 184. Not to mention his hooking me up with 2005 top sheet graphics just cause it happened to arrive the day he was putting my top sheet on and he figured I'd like to be the only one with it for the entire season :D . So thanks again and have a great season and play safe!

[bobdea]

Originally posted by LeeW
Oh you got those? Ive consider gettin' those boards. Just a bit wee-bit too long for me. Im 5'10" and 200 lbs. I know that Mike Olson rides 'em considering how tall he is (HE IS TALL!) and he says he loves to ride on 'em. Im debating whether to get Dough Boy 193 or Grocer 180. We'll see.

Turny-- 11 to 9 sidecut progressive. That's a bit turny. Is it still turny when youre carving on them ?
I prefer other longboards, I liked the glissade a little better
and the tanker is better as well.

the Grocer is a great board and it feels more "natural"(turns the way a board its size should) than a doughboy
one issue with the doughboy might be that if it does have a pregressive sidecut that could be one reason I felt it being too turny and kind of nervous at the end of my turns
this only bothered me on good groom so as long as you have a quiver it will have its place

I never have really liked the ride of most of the boards with progressive sidecut I guess its just a preference though

[thomas_m]

Originally posted by LeeW
Oh you got those? Ive consider gettin' those boards. Just a bit wee-bit too long for me. Im 5'10" and 200 lbs. I know that Mike Olson rides 'em considering how tall he is (HE IS TALL!) and he says he loves to ride on 'em. Im debating whether to get Dough Boy 193 or Grocer 180. We'll see.

Turny-- 11 to 9 sidecut progressive. That's a bit turny. Is it still turny when youre carving on them ?

Yep, he's pretty tall. So is his wife. Pics 1, 2 and 6 are Mike Olson.

http://www.crowmountain.net/Surfing/WIP/05-17-03/index.html

I've talked to his wife a couple times since we're often surfing the same breaks up in the Strait. They seem like really nice folks.

T.

[LeeW]

Originally posted by bobdea
I prefer other longboards, I liked the glissade a little better
and the tanker is better as well.

the Grocer is a great board and it feels more "natural"(turns the way a board its size should) than a doughboy
one issue with the doughboy might be that if it does have a pregressive sidecut that could be one reason I felt it being too turny and kind of nervous at the end of my turns
this only bothered me on good groom so as long as you have a quiver it will have its place

I never have really liked the ride of most of the boards with progressive sidecut I guess its just a preference though

only long board I have is the litigator 172, minus my rossi 184 WC. Ill check out the Grocer and see what it feels like. :) I just ordered a Scotty '05 board 159. its not progressive--8.2 only .2 difference from Emma Peel 8.0 and i hope its not that noticeable. Im not sure if I can remember what it feels like to ride on progressive boards, even tho I have had own some of 'em in the past. THanks for the input.

[LeeW]

Originally posted by thomas_m
Yep, he's pretty tall. So is his wife. Pics 1, 2 and 6 are Mike Olson.

http://www.crowmountain.net/Surfing/WIP/05-17-03/index.html

I've talked to his wife a couple times since we're often surfing the same breaks up in the Strait. They seem like really nice folks.

T.

OOo, nice photos. 002 and 006's mike, right? his bowleg's a dead give-away. ive only seen his wife at mervin mfg christmas party some time back. i was busy gettin' ****ed up with the crew. hehe Mike Olson's got a big thumbs up from me, with his kindness! I think Im gonna tell him about this forum. :)

[2010]

RIDE CLICKERS AT 48/35 ON A STIFF LONG BOARD (167+), NEVER LOOK WHERE YOU ARE NOT GOING, AND THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. CARVING ON CLICKERS AT SOMEWHAT STEEPER ANGLES, ON A TORTIONALLY STIFF BOARD WITH SOME CARBON AND ALL THAT, AND THEN CHARGING TREES, DROPS, AND EVERYTHING WHEN IT SNOWS, WILL OPEN YOUR MIND.

YOU MIGHT EVEN MELT YOUR HARD BOOTS, BUT I AM NOT HOLDING MY BREATH.

JUST KEEP YOUR MIND OPEN.

LOVEITALL.

CANTWEALLJUSTGETALONG?

[D-Sub]

sure we can, if you quit yelling maybe!

[mick]

Good call Matt D

I recently got back into riding softie setups fot teaching after 8 years on nothing but hards, carving or freeride. I got an Alibi 159 last year and loved it,super flexy but torsionally rigid enough to get on edge and have some fun.

mick

[slopetool]

My boards for soft snow all have the Palmer Pro-Link plates under the binding for better edge control. And I use the 04' K2 transformer boots and SST clicker bindings

Morrow 176 matt goodwill
Rad-Air Tankers 200, 192

How about those apples? Rick F?:D