Dave Scott Hangs it up

[ddr35]

This article is courtesy of Denver Post:

National title winner hangs up his boots
Forum Snowboarding rider retires at age 21
By Richard Penn
Denver Post Staff Writer

Forum Snowboards publicist announced today that national team rider David Scott had officially retired. The announcement comes after a near two year absence due to an ankle injury that he acquired back in December of 2002.

Scott has ridden for Forum since he was 14 years old, staring at the local level in Wisconsin and eventually going national in Colorado. Shortly after winning two national titles, Scott was ranked in the top ten nationally by Transworld Snowboarding Magazine.

Scott is currently attending New York University in New York City where he is focusing on premedical studies. “My ankle injury was just the tip of the iceberg in my decision to retire. I am pursing new passions in New York, but snowboarding and the Forum family will always play a big part in my life. I couldn’t have asked for a better team to start and end my career with,” Scott stated.

Teammate and 2006 Olympic hopeful Chris Forston has ridden with Scott since age seven. “Dave and I started ridding together on nothing but a frozen hill in Wisconsin and have ridden together ever since. I was hopeful that he would be joining me at the Olympic trials in Torino, but we stand by his decision and wish him the best,” said Forston.

Scott says that he does plan to go to the 2006 games, just without a Snowboard. “I plan to meet up with the team in the near future, but this time I’ll be a fan screaming at the bottom of the mountain.”

[dragon fly jones]

Umm okay....

[D-Sub]

yeah..who?

I can never help but find it funny when folks insist on posting stuff about jibbers when this clearly isnt a jibber site

no offense to jibbers, of course:)

[kjl]

I wonder how many Forum boards are owned by bomberonline members :p

We have a number of jibbers here, but I wonder if they are more likely to buy boutique or smaller-company freestyle boards... (i.e. get a Donek or Never Summer or something).

[lonerider]

Originally posted by D-Sub
yeah..who?

I can never help but find it funny when folks insist on posting stuff about jibbers when this clearly isnt a jibber site

no offense to jibbers, of course:)

More like who is ddr35? Odd for a first post? I have no idea who he is, and I don't think he is actually a big name prorider, but power to him to finish college and possible go to med school.

I agree with D-Sub's comment on BOL member's unhealthy obsession with freestylers (jibbers is an subcategory, but hardbooters like to use the term as a derogatory generalization of the entire group). More so, it is often the people who DON'T do freestyle much or at all that focus on it...

Look this isn't a freestyle site, most of you don't do freestyle, those of us who DO do freestyle don't post stuff about it here, so why are you so preoccupied with it. I sense some Freudian transference going on here :)

Forums are crappy boards in my opinion, even when they first came out, most "real" freestylers (not posers) knew that it was the pro-team that was awesome and not the snowboards. Our local store sold lots of them to kids, but whenever I bought a friend in... they (very freestyle oriented crew) would always set them up with some other brand (salomon, nitro, oxygen, etc).

[Jack Michaud]

What's the matter with talking freestyle here every now and then? If we want freestylers/softbooters to regard alpine as a part of the sport of snowboarding, shouldn't we acknowlege that freestyle/softbooting is snowboarding too? Or are we really doing two different sports?

I dunno, but I don't think that the Bomber forum is in any danger of being overrun by freestyle/softboot posts!

[ncermak]

heck for that matter, Maybe we should open up to softbooters...put in another form dedicated to softbooting...for the mature adults out there who can't bear the TWS drivel...

[gawdzira]

I am bored at work.

There is no snow.

I have a newborn and will be lucky to get 10 days in this year.

I don't care what you guys/gal(Aisling) post.
Just keep posting so that I can live vicariously through your exploits this winter as I await the day that I can toss my son down on the snow with some ptex under his feet.

To ease my pain I will instill other pain and run in the PF Changs Rock and Roll Marathon in January. If all goes well my wife will do the half marathon.

In totally unrelated news, here I am somewhere on the bike course of the LA Triathlon (my first olympic distance race).

<img src="http://tinypic.com/5tbfq">

[D-Sub]

theres definitely a difference between soft boot riding and jibbers:)

I was just messin anyway

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
What's the matter with talking freestyle here every now and then? If we want freestylers/softbooters to regard alpine as a part of the sport of snowboarding, shouldn't we acknowlege that freestyle/softbooting is snowboarding too? Or are we really doing two different sports?

I dunno, but I don't think that the Bomber forum is in any danger of being overrun by freestyle/softboot posts!

It's not freestyler/softboot posts that are the issue, it is freestyle bashing that is the issue. Like you said, if we want people to accept and respect alpine snowboarding, we must be the first to be respectful and accepting of freestyle/softboot snowboarding... I don't see that happening with the general tone of the posts here - the reactions I've seen are a general shaking head "I don't get them" to complete dismissal of freestyler softbooters "a lunch-tray riding jib monkeys" as the author of one recent thread stated.

When Transworld magazine is discussed, no one bothers to mention about the aerial grace of some freestylers, they just grumble and rant about the lack of "on the ground" carving pics - this is a valid complaint in some sense, but just because alpine snowboarding is being ignored, does not mean hardbooters should do the same and treat freestyle with a degree of respect. Else, you will drive away potential hardbooters who are riding freestyle setups now.

[D-Sub]

I see your point, but...Id have to modify it.

there _is_ a good percentage of modern snowboarding that is truly all about airs and spins and crap. I guess they call it "technical"...(altho..damn..if anything is technical its fckin jack and fin talkin about G-force and the lack of centrifugal force:))

theres definitely a lot of old men here who seem to have NO idea whatsoever that "jibbing" is a part of snowboarding. In all honesty, some of the people here act the same way skiers always have toward snowboarders...noses up, attitudes out, assumptions at the ready. I cant help but get my hackles up at this, as I have dealt with it plenty comin from 2 plankers, since 1990 when I started riding.

but at the same time, I certainly dont identify with 20 year olds with saggy pants acting like "gangsters," living the rock star life, and..heh...going to the backcountry to build a fcking JUMP and hit that 500000 times in a row

I think most of us are right in the middle, no? I admire dudes like Tom Burt who have pretty much all around skills, and I certainly dont look at "them" ("freestyle") as the enemy. But the hoardes...the trendsters...the huckers...I couldnt care less if that sort of attitude stayed the hell away from alpine.

_caught in the middle here_

[Neil Gendzwill]

I don't have a problem with freestyle. When I see someone go big with style and control, I'm very impressed. I'm just not much a fan of the jibbing part of it. It's artificial and destructive. Nothing seems weirder to me than sticking some pipe into the snow and spending your day wrecking your board on it.

[ncermak]

and nothing seems weirder than these guys than "wasting time waxing your board and sharpening your edges"...

If you watched the US Open rail Jam, the jibbing is very impressive...especially if you've evre tried it.

Now don't get me wrong, I am a tuner, not a jibber, But I am tolerant of all and have tried all aspects of sliding down a hill, and have tried to to find the fun it...

[Neil Gendzwill]

It must be harder than it looks. I've seen some world-level slopestyle contests on TV, and the rail sections always get a big "meh" out of me. It's one of those things they stole from skating that will never ever be as cool as when the skaters do it.

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
It must be harder than it looks. I've seen some world-level slopestyle contests on TV, and the rail sections always get a big "meh" out of me. It's one of those things they stole from skating that will never ever be as cool as when the skaters do it.

heh. cant help but agree. always felt that way about the half pipe, too.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by D-Sub
I see your point, but...Id have to modify it.

there _is_ a good percentage of modern snowboarding that is truly all about airs and spins and crap. I guess they call it "technical"...(altho..damn..if anything is technical its fckin jack and fin talkin about G-force and the lack of centrifugal force:))

theres definitely a lot of old men here who seem to have NO idea whatsoever that "jibbing" is a part of snowboarding. In all honesty, some of the people here act the same way skiers always have toward snowboarders...noses up, attitudes out, assumptions at the ready. I cant help but get my hackles up at this, as I have dealt with it plenty comin from 2 plankers, since 1990 when I started riding.

but at the same time, I certainly dont identify with 20 year olds with saggy pants acting like "gangsters," living the rock star life, and..heh...going to the backcountry to build a fcking JUMP and hit that 500000 times in a row

I think most of us are right in the middle, no? I admire dudes like Tom Burt who have pretty much all around skills, and I certainly dont look at "them" ("freestyle") as the enemy. But the hoardes...the trendsters...the huckers...I couldnt care less if that sort of attitude stayed the hell away from alpine.

_caught in the middle here_

Yes, the term "technical" and "progressive" when used by snowboard announcers are terrible. And Jack is very precise and technical when he talks about the physics of carving (http://www.bomberonline.com//articles/physics.cfm). However the mechanics of a irregular object rotating on two axes with a changing moment of inertia isn't trivial. I'm sure it can get much more complex, but Jack's basic article on carving only requires a good understand of scalars and vectors - stuff you learn in high school physics. Diagramming non-degenerate rotating objects requires more knowledge such as tensors (http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae168.cfm) (scalar is to vector as vector is to tensor). Even if you ignore the math, can you even mentally visualize an object spinning off-axis 540 inverted through its entire motion? Heck pick up any oblong object... like a book, and try and make it spin 540 while going inverted (rodeo flip) in a single smooth motion. I doubt you can... now imaging "being" the book and trying to visual the landing while you are spinning and inverted... if that isn't technical, I don't know what is.

Yes, I too have noticed that Bomber people tend to be older (and male) in general and a few do have the feel of the "old school" skiier vs (freestyle) snowboarder mentality. Now its a very small few, but it's also a very vocal few. And it is this type of sentiment that I think pushes people away from alpine snowboarders as being this weird cult where you are welcome so long as you believe in almost everything their say and just give up any beliefs you had before and "join the cause" in the oncoming "alpine revolution that shall one day sweep across the world and cleanse it" of the misguided (this is a super exaggeration, but I think it demonstrates my point better).

I agree most people are in the middle. It just seems like people (in general) like extremes... like pro freestyle riders are extreme in their end since most people don't get more than 2 inches of air - and on the flip side I feel like hardbooters try to balance this out by going on the opposite extreme. In reality I feel like hardbooters people should move towards the center, since that's where most people are anyways... but I guess they see that as moving towards the freestyle end or even worse... the mainstream end.

[D-Sub]

yes, definitely worse..the mainstream part. its a joke

and...Im certainly not downplaying the difficulty of some of the airs those cats do

just the relevance:)

Id rather watch Burt or Basich or someone...cruise an entire slope, throwin spins and flips and huge turns all in one run.

hucking is for show. no question about it.

hell...I dont even like racing!:)

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
It must be harder than it looks. I've seen some world-level slopestyle contests on TV, and the rail sections always get a big "meh" out of me. It's one of those things they stole from skating that will never ever be as cool as when the skaters do it.

Totally. I also think rails and jibbing is artificial, contrived, and destructive. But I can see how a skater might want to get that same rush in the winter when he can't skate the streets.

I used to think the same thing about Halfpipe, that it was stolen from skating and would never be as cool or require as much skill. I think the Pipe-dragon has fixed that situation. I don't think inverted 900s 15 feet above the lip are possible without bindings...?

[D-Sub]

anyway...back to the original...I just dont see what caused this cat to register and post something that has ZILCH to do with this particular site. that seemed odd to me

[lonerider]

Originally posted by D-Sub
anyway...back to the original...I just dont see what caused this cat to register and post something that has ZILCH to do with this particular site. that seemed odd to me

Most definitely, what a weird first post.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
I used to think the same thing about Halfpipe, that it was stolen from skating and would never be as cool or require as much skill. I think the Pipe-dragon has fixed that situation. I don't think inverted 900s 15 feet above the lip are possible without bindings...?
I think pipe is cool to watch, and those guys certainly go huge. But the skaters still kick their asses. There's a lot more variety, as they can flip the board and play with the lip, whereas the snowboarders are pretty much restricted to spinning or straight airs. You can't even throw a handplant in competition anymore, it burns up too much speed when all you've got is a half-dozen hits to make an impression on the judges.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Jack Michaud
Totally. I also think rails and jibbing is artificial, contrived, and destructive. But I can see how a skater might want to get that same rush in the winter when he can't skate the streets.

I used to think the same thing about Halfpipe, that it was stolen from skating and would never be as cool or require as much skill. I think the Pipe-dragon has fixed that situation. I don't think inverted 900s 15 feet above the lip are possible without bindings...?

I see your point about rails and jibbing and I agree to an extent that is is artificial, but so are cut slopes, groomed trails, and chairlifts - they all are designed to make the experience more convenient controlled and regulated. I've railed fallen tree trunks, stumps, and the occasionally snow boulder and they are all a lot more fun to do than the synthetic park versions... but they are harder to find as well. Oh yea, I also grew up in the pipe-dragon era, so my experiences might different from the old-school and "pre-school" riders (dude I just figured out what that meant) :) I wouldn't ride a hand built halfpipe.

Wasn't surfer/skater-in-the-winter explanation really popular among skiiers in the 80's as they dismissed snowboarding as a passing fad and not a legitimate sport on its own? I feel like this type of thinking is outdated now a days.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
I think pipe is cool to watch, and those guys certainly go huge. But the skaters still kick their asses. There's a lot more variety, as they can flip the board and play with the lip, whereas the snowboarders are pretty much restricted to spinning or straight airs. You can't even throw a handplant in competition anymore, it burns up too much speed when all you've got is a half-dozen hits to make an impression on the judges.

That's true, but there's something to be said about the sheer power and gracee with which they carve up the wall and blast into the air... of course I'm not a shortboard skateboarder (I believe you mentioned that you've skateboarded a bit back in the day) so my viewpoint is very snowboard-biased.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by lonerider
I also grew up in the pipe-dragon era, so my experiences might different from the old-school and "pre-school" riders (dude I just figured out what that meant) :) I wouldn't ride a hand built halfpipe.
First time I saw a half-pipe comp was when Kidwell won at Sunshine in 1986. I think they used to call that contest the North American Championships or something. Anyways, it was a lumpy, not even vertical most places, hand-built pipe that was maybe 7 or 8 feet deep, and the fact that he was able to get 3 or 4 feet out and be stylish was amazing. His signature model with Sims those days was basically a big chunk of plywood.

So yeah, I guess you can call me old school.


I believe you mentioned that you've skateboarded a bit back in the day
Yup, started in '76 and still ride from time to time. Skateboarding on snow never interested me that much, if I want to ride a pipe or bowl I'll do it on wheels. Riding the mountain is what fascinates me, the whole mountain, at speeds I'd never dare on a skateboard.

[lonerider]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
First time I saw a half-pipe comp was when Kidwell won at Sunshine in 1986. I think they used to call that contest the North American Championships or something. Anyways, it was a lumpy, not even vertical most places, hand-built pipe that was maybe 7 or 8 feet deep, and the fact that he was able to get 3 or 4 feet out and be stylish was amazing. His signature model with Sims those days was basically a big chunk of plywood.

So yeah, I guess you can call me old school.


Yup, started in '76 and still ride from time to time. Skateboarding on snow never interested me that much, if I want to ride a pipe or bowl I'll do it on wheels. Riding the mountain is what fascinates me, the whole mountain, at speeds I'd never dare on a skateboard.

Ah yes... as I don't shortboard at all, I don't have that secondary outlet of expression as you do - so snowboarding has to support both tendencies for me. I think this is why we have that difference opinions since I can't be like "if I wanted to do rails, I'd just ride my skateboard at home." I actually rollerbladed when I was younger as I found it better adapted to the foresty hills where I grew up.

[Gecko]

oh I remember those 1/2 pipes...and for that matter those snowboards, my first 2-3 boards were horizontal lamination boards...life certainly was differant then...then again lip tricks were a big deal then not just airs (most of us could barely air anyway). These days I still skateboard, halfpipe, pools and downhill...though on completely different setups for each...I spent friday teaching some newschool skaters to skate ramp, they didn't understand the whole bend you knees, pump the tranny thing

[FTA2R]

I am 26 and I have very mixed feelings 'bout the freestylers (which would probably include some of my riding buddies). I will try to be as objective as possible, though.


The facts:

1. vast vast majority of freestyle riders are kids or early twenties and male. Teenagers are frequently obnoxious, we were all teens once. All trying to impress each other, hormones flowing, etc. So can we hold this against them? yes and no. Don't dislike them for their clothing style (baggy pants are very comfortable and functional), piercings, etc. --unless the pants are hanging off their asses and have lost their function. Do dislike them b/c they may be extremely obnoxious, inconsiderate, or hostile to hardbooters (even though they may will have no clue about our discipline).


I admire:

1. The guts it takes to hit some of these huge jumps. The possibility of pain, significant injury, or death (read Loon Mtn.) is definitely there, I think a bit more than carving. Being older doesn't heheh.

2. The perservarance (some would argue stupidity) a lot of them have to keep on falling (frequently hard) and keep going until they land the jump.

I can't stand:

1. The "I don't need to take a lesson" attitude even though a signifcant # of them (around here at least, I'm convinced) couldn't ride a moderate blue condidently or carve decently. Learn the fundamentals first.

2. The recklessness/ lack of courtesy some of these guys have. (we all make mistakes but some of these guys don't know what right of way is, etc).

3. Complete disregard for basic equipment maintenance some them have (waxing? nah, I never do that)

4. virtually no alpine coverage marketed within or industry or to public. I think we could take a lesson from the freestylers and be a little more vocal. lots of non riders know what a half pipe is, but "alpine snowboarding?" (hey, there's one of those skiboot plate board thingies) ;)

In college I used to hit some jumps and I admit, it was pretty damn fun. Most I didn't land, but landing them is a great feeling So I suspect that some in here are perhaps a little jealous of the air-obsessed youth, as their bodies can generally handle the "abuse" that frequently comes with honing freestyle skills---- much better than that of a 40 year old. We are the supposed speed freaks, and falling at speed isn't nice either. Still, falling at speed distributes the force more evenly than missing a jump, which sends all impact to a single impact (or 2). I will take a high speed wipeout over a high single point of impact wipeout (unless it's pow, etc.)

I once read that freeriding is the essence of this sport- and I agree (as it draws from all disciplines).

I admit I wouldn't even think of hitting some of those kickers, and most of the 'zines these days are just ridiculous, but if you really look at it objetively, I think it's hard to not be sorta stoked to see a rider hit a nice jump on a trail - or at least respect the ability/guts. Watching warren miller style big mountain riding is truly awesome, too.

But let's face it, most of us are older and wiser than they are, and don't have much in common with these kids. Try talking to the freestyler next to you on the lift though, you may be pleasantly surprised.

in closing,

performance > (free)style


ps hopefully I dont' offend too many with this, but can we get a poll on who still wears a one piece, high neons, etc. LOL? that is definitely worthy of a chuckle. Line up next to Mr. Camo Wearer.



---
Barry

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by Barry
...can we get a poll on who <i>still</i> wears a one piece, high neons, etc. LOL?

What do you mean by "still"? Get with the times, <a href="http://www.doco.net/one-piece/index.html">the wan-pisu is back</a>!

They have been super-popular over the last couple of years in Japan, and are usually worn by the young fashionable freestylers.

They're a lot baggier than the 70's version, and usually in fairly dark, earthy colours, but I have seen a few in bling-bling all-white.

[philw]

I've seen a fair bit of aerial ballet on snowboards, as that's mostly the fashion here at the moment. FWIW skiers are actually rather better at it, and as someone alluded above, they have a bit more flexibility which helps with some of the contortions. Calling it "free"-something is kind of strange, but I guess the kids wouldn't feel so butch if they thought of it as what it is. How about synchronized aerial snowboard ballet for an olympic sport? Ok, you'd have to be on drugs too..

There's nothing at all wrong with the flat land stuff of course. Personally I'd like as many people as possible to do it, especially those who can't turn. Do I know or care about the boy-band-teen heart throbs who help brand the gear? No.