broke a Virus!!

[Ear dragger]

I destroyed the Team Tantalus 175!! It happened during normal carving. No crashes, no improper setup, bindings were tight, No user mistakes. I do ride pretty hard but it should not matter!! It was a sweet carving board:(. I'm gonna talk to mr. Virus tommorow and see what to do. I doubt it will be replaced. Probably gonna buy a new one but a custom that can handle what I dish out to it! Pretty surprising that it delaminated. You can see inside and the core is split! the pics probably won't show it but, it's definately cracked. Guess the board is going to carving heaven:ices_ange

[bobdea]

cateks are known for point loading on metal boards

[CarvingScooby]

About your board, good thing u r ok.

Is that CATEK binding?

Roy

[Ear dragger]

it's not a metal board

[Ear dragger]

scratch that, I have no idea. I don't think the bindings did that

[*Ace*]

DUDE!
That blows...
That was a pretty board, I remember it well.
My Coiler X4 Arrow would make a nice replacement and is well suited for Stratton.:biggthump
Maybe I could let go one of my personal favorites, the Virus Gladiator Ultra Carbon.
Give me a call bud.

[Keyser Soze]

cateks are known for point loading on metal boards

Really? Any model in particular?

[John H]

I don't think the Team Tantalus is metal.

[Ear dragger]

Yeah I went to the virus website, They don't use metal in that board. Ace I'll give you a shout about the virus

[Thor VonRippington]

Not what you want to hear but...

I've seen that type of binding destroy several boards... one just a few weeks ago (non-metal)

It's too stiff with very little dampening... especially for someone that puts a lot of torque on the board

Think about how boards were constructed when that binding was being made. They were beefy, thick, and stiff...able to withstand more pressure in a small area. There were still breaks and inserts getting ripped out back then... but just a bad idea to put old stiff bindings on a newer/lighter board

[John H]

Those bindings aren't that old. They're OS 2's with the D3 elastomer. They are probably about the same stiffness as TD2's with the yellow elastomer. Did the board that you saw broken have OS 2's or the older really stiff Cateks? Just curious 'cause I'm using OS2's on my metal Priors.

[twelsch42]

Catek makes a clear thin riser plate for those who want extra protection on their metal boards.

Now should I be worried about my Tanker and Catek FR2's? Unless I'm railing really hard I wouldn't think so.

[bobdea]

it's the OS2s and the fr2s that are a issue.
even with the D3, Bruce of coiler mentioned it as well as prior people and it's come up here.

very small surface area smaller in fact than the older cateks similar to the td1
put a lexan plate under it and you're good to go.
I ride a lexan plate under my fr2s even.

[colintkemp]

Ear Dragger,

Very sorry to hear. I've experienced that problem before. I don't think it is a Virus thing or a Catek thing - it's just bad timing of a lot of different circumstances, including slope, snow type, pressure angle, gear etc.

Indeed, contact Frank at Virus. He was very helpful to me in a similar situation.

Colin

[Bullwings]

it's the OS2s and the fr2s that are a issue.
even with the D3, Bruce of coiler mentioned it as well as prior people and it's come up here.

very small surface area smaller in fact than the older cateks similar to the td1
put a lexan plate under it and you're good to go.
I ride a lexan plate under my fr2s even.

That makes sense. I broke a Tanker 182 07-08 model (white top sheet) while riding FR2s on it. The break was similar to the one seen on my 04-05 192 model - base was all cracked and raised up along the p-tex designs. Granted, that board saw much harsher riding and had a collision with another boarder earlier in the season 2 riding days before the break.

[Tramp]

scratch that, I have no idea. I don't think the bindings did that

the problem is Catek bindings!

we have many board have broken by them!

Not good bindings! Only good like a modern constriction and no more!

[Ear dragger]

If cateks were the problem, I would have busted my coiler a long time ago!! Yes the lexan plate is to disperse the "point loading" but I highly doubt the board would have stayed together with those plates. I think it is just a imperfection that was in the board from when it was built. I will talk to virus, and other virus owners, because I plan on riding another one with os2's. Again The coiler I have would have done the same thing if the bindings were the case, cause I have been beating on that board for a while. of course I'm open to all opinions on the matter (why i posted the break).

[ursle]

Was it the same foot(binding) as the boot that was busted?
Also at least a 7 year old board ridden by many...

[Sultan Guy]

Hard to tell for sure from your pictures but it might be fixable with epoxy and clamps. Otherwise you can always make a cool bench out of it :)

[Bruce Varsava]

That type of break looks like it was caused by the inserts pulling up through the core and then ripping the top off. If you cut the board open it would give you a good idea of whats up. A lot of boards I have opened up with that type of damage just have the inserts put right into the wood with no additional reinforcement. This is usually a recipe for disappointment in the long run as the wood will only take so much. Its a very good time saver to do it that way but it does not hold up in the long run with stiff bindings. If you think about wanting to build a tool to pull inserts out of a board, you would support it on the perimeter and then put a big nut in the middle to pull up on the inserts to see how strong they are, get the picture;)
My glass and metal boards all have reinforcement and for heavy dudes or stiff bindings I even add more to help protect.
I am totally unaware of how that board was built but opening it up would give you some idea as to whats up. Its just a combination of the small things that usually add up to failure and eliminating as many of them as possible is the best cure.
Yes I am still alive

[lowrider]

Was that an offer of a free postmortem on that board??? pictures to follow??? ship to Bruce and make a huge contribution to Bomber continuing education.:biggthump just ship the foot or so around inserts (cheaper$$$)

[Cyrus the virus]

That type of break looks like it was caused by the inserts pulling up through the core and then ripping the top off. If you cut the board open it would give you a good idea of whats up. A lot of boards I have opened up with that type of damage just have the inserts put right into the wood with no additional reinforcement. This is usually a recipe for disappointment in the long run as the wood will only take so much. Its a very good time saver to do it that way but it does not hold up in the long run with stiff bindings. If you think about wanting to build a tool to pull inserts out of a board, you would support it on the perimeter and then put a big nut in the middle to pull up on the inserts to see how strong they are, get the picture;)
My glass and metal boards all have reinforcement and for heavy dudes or stiff bindings I even add more to help protect.
I am totally unaware of how that board was built but opening it up would give you some idea as to whats up. Its just a combination of the small things that usually add up to failure and eliminating as many of them as possible is the best cure.
Yes I am still alive

Hi Bruce, nice to hear that you are still alive!
For your info, the board is from 2003/2004 season and was bought used!
What the first user did with that board nobody knows!

I didn´t know what you did at that time 2003 / 2004( rumours I heard: You worked as a nurse!?)
So please let us know more from your innovations!
All new boards I saw from you are innovated by a well known guy making all the competition boards for worldcup riders from Switzerland.

What´s your news and innovations!? rocker nose and tail? Titanal with carbon stripes? A woodcore? A running base!?
Ahhh now I know !!!!
Tatatata! Here it comes: :lurk:"A CUSTOM PRINTED TOP SHEET":lurk:

Congrats!:biggthump

Sorry but you should now it best, every board could be damaged!

[Jack Michaud]

Ear Dragger, I'm not sure why you would call out Virus like this in public without discussing this with them first.....?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Ha ha ha

[KingCrimson]

you should mention your innovation concerns to Apple, some of their folks made a visit to Xerox years ago.

[skategoat]

In the interests of international goodwill, I suggest the immediate deletion of this thread.

[Bruce Varsava]

Just stating facts fellas. I am not calling out anyone and just took the info given and applied my knowledge. If bindings are ripping out of boards is somewhat of a safety issue and knowing the facts can help to reduce the problem. Sure it was an older board but there are lots of old boards out there and if there is a compatibility concern, it should be addressed. I'd be the first to recommend that any of my boards form the 90s were not reinforced enough to be reliable with stiff bindings. It was the evolution period for binding and board compatability.
Frank, I have no hesitation about utilizing proven designs even if I did not come up with it first. Its more fun for me and my customers. Certain things work well and if they do why not use them? Mr Kessler is one guy I fully respect and would love to meet him someday. He seems to understand board dynamics more than anyone else that I have dealt with.
You are also correct that I did work in a Hospital until I finally decided to do the boards full time. I was at a huge disadvantage only being able to do it part time so please bear with me until I get caught up with all the latest and then maybe, just maybe could come up with an original idea or maybe a successful race design to compete with the big guys.

[Bobby Buggs]

Damn Nurse built a pretty good and durable board for me and many others back in 2004:)

[Jack Michaud]

Just stating facts fellas. I am not calling out anyone

Sorry, I was referring to Ear Dragger.

[kevbo]

I just bought a used ford with a huge lift kit from a teenager. It turns out the engine is shot. Man that FORD company really builds a SH^&y automobile. It has 100k + miles, I wonder if they will replace it?.......HMMMM

Give me a figgin break!

kr:barf:

[queequeg]

I just bought a used ford with a huge lift kit from a teenager. It turns out the engine is shot. Man that FORD company really builds a SH^&y automobile. It has 100k + miles, I wonder if they will replace it?.......HMMMM

Give me a figgin break!

kr:barf:

Dude, give ME a break.

At no point did the OP suggest that Virus builds ****ty boards. He did say, that it was a sweet carving board, that he wasn't expecting Frank to replace it for him, and that he was planning on buying another Virus to replace it with.

Getting bummed about at having a beloved ride break on you and sharing the story on line is not the same as getting online and claiming that virus makes crappy boards.

Boards break, we all know this. If somebody breaks a board, gets bummed and turns right around with plans to replace it with something from the same builder ... that's gotta tell you it must have been one hell of a kick ass ride. If anything happened to my main squeeze right now I know I'd be on the phone placing an order for the same thing the very next day ... and that's far from a disparaging remark.

[Buell]

Dude, give ME a break.

At no point did the OP suggest that Virus builds ****ty boards. He did say, that it was a sweet carving board, that he wasn't expecting Frank to replace it for him, and that he was planning on buying another Virus to replace it with.

Getting bummed about at having a beloved ride break on you and sharing the story on line is not the same as getting online and claiming that virus makes crappy boards.



+1

I never considered he was upset with Virus or implying the construction was poor quality either.

Personally I think it is good for us to know about broken equipment. There is no good reason to keep this secret. Especially if, like this, it can be done with respect toward the manufacturer.

[Keyser Soze]

I could only dream of ever being as calm and composed as you.


In the interests of international goodwill, I suggest the immediate deletion of this thread.

Second the motion. :boxing_sm

[Ernie00]

the guy is just posting about a board he broke like any of us would do... nothing more nothing less.

some people are making a mountain out of a mole.

[Sultan Guy]

Personally I think it is good for us to know about broken equipment. There is no good reason to keep this secret. Especially if, like this, it can be done with respect toward the manufacturer.

Second this thought! We have all broken outdoor gear through hard use that was designed properly but just wore out or finally gave in to extreme stress. Sharing stories of broken equipment when done properly can be a learning experience for everyone including the manufacturer. Even better is if the original poster can post an update after the manufacturer had a chance to examine the failure with their response.

I design kayak paddles for a company and we receive broken stuff back. Some of these are repaired for free and others we charge the customer a reasonable fee. We get rave reviews for our customer service response and high quality product.

[kevbo]

I destroyed the Team Tantalus 175!! It happened during normal carving. No crashes, no improper setup, bindings were tight, No user mistakes. I do ride pretty hard but it should not matter!!

Would this statement not conclude that the product is in some way is inferior? Just one opinion. The board maker is not a relevant point, this could apply to any board maker. The dig was implied.

I remember all the back and forth regarding the law suit with bomber. I take this sport as with any sport as a risk. S----happens with used equipment. If this was a new board I would consider the story. Maybe the author did not imply the dig but it stands as I read it.

:argue:

[Neil Gendzwill]

I could only dream of ever being as calm and composed as you.+1. Cyrus sure came out guns-a-blazin' for what was a pretty innocuous comment by Bruce.

[Ear dragger]

first off I've gotta say it is amazing to see 2 board builders posting. I loved that virus. It was a fantastic ride, and I've contacted frank and it looks like I'm gonna get another tantalus but an evolution series. He says it has some more beef to it and of course all of their cutting edge technology. I find the warranty he offers to be very attractive!! We talked about my board.He thinks that the board got a crack prior to me owning it, and after that it was just a matter of time.
Bruce builds a fantastic board as well. My 178 FC is awesome to ride. It has been alot of fun for me, I just want something a little different which the virus offered to me. I would get another board from bruce but the waiting list is very long, and eces is not this month!

Ursle, My back boot was the one that broke, the board broke under the front binding and I was on my other board during that impact. Bruce, I would send you the board if you want it. And Jack I'm sorry you see this thread as a way to bash or call out. That is not my intention, I just wanted people to see what happened and wanted feedback.

[kevbo]

That type of break looks like it was caused by the inserts pulling up through the core and then ripping the top off. This is usually a recipe for disappointment in the long run as the wood will only take so much. Its a very good time saver to do it that way but it does not hold up in the long run with stiff bindings.


I am totally unaware of how that board was built but opening it up would give you some idea as to whats up. Its just a combination of the small things that usually add up to failure and eliminating as many of them as possible is the best cure.


:argue: these threads featuring Virus seem to ALWAYS revolve around... Are they worth it? Who would pay that much? Why would you use that material? Some fluke situation happens and the haters jump to these lame questions. If there is a true problem with the manufacturing process then that is one thing but this strikes me as another lame bash session. Even the title provokes animosity. Cirus had every right to quip back with his sarcasm.

[Bobby Buggs]

I too agree about posting equipment failure. People send back Evil softballs and Bats back to me when they fail in a time frame that could be considered early. I want to see this so we can tell if our process is flawed or did the item just reach its failure point.

Oh yeah, I dont see people posting about Nursypoo's boards breaking. Wonder why?

[Buell]

this strikes me as another lame bash session. Even the title provokes animosity. Cirus had every right to quip back with his sarcasm.

Defensive a bit? I really must have missed the Virus bashing. Seems to me the only negative opinions expressed were about Catek. I think the reputation of Virus quality is solid.

How does the title "broke a Virus!!" provoke animosity?

Cirus had no reason to respond to Bruce like he did. I definitely agree with those that think Bruce responded gracefully to Cirus though.

[bjvircks]

Who wants to see Nursypoo and the Virus go at each other?? Mud or Jello?:eek:

C'mon folks... lighten up!

[Bruce Varsava]

Bruce, I would send you the board if you want it.

Its a pretty easy autopsy as you just have to cut it open ( sawzall works well as the blades seem to handle edges best) and take a peek around the inserts or any signs of the wood cracking and distorting. Frank didn't mention anything in regards to reinforcing but so you can look to see if there is any type of fiber reinforcement that the inserts are pushed through as this is a very effective way to eliminate insert pulls. If no sign of injury appears around the inserts, the top lamination just let go as it must have hit its life cycle and there are a ton of factors that influence that and many I am surely not even aware of.
Do this and you are a good way to becoming a certified board disassembler.
The putting together part is a bit more tricky;)

[Wun]

add your board to the BENT or BROKEN archives; it needs some growth. badly. :)

[Ear dragger]

Bruce, I set the board up in such a way that I could flex the crap out of the board. With a flashlight, I was able to see the inserts. They were not pulled thru. The core splintered some but only a small area. It's pretty interesting, I've never seen the inside of a board before. It kind of looks like many sheets of plywood stood on edge and glued all together (i guess)

[Dave ESPI]

Sucks!

Welcome to the club of BoardBusters!

As was said to me in my thread of a broken board with similar circumstances.... I had to laugh because no one has said it here yet:


"Maybe you should stop buying junk garbage boards and get a quality new board with modern technology"...... :rolleyes:

(kidding :eplus2:)

I think you will be best to just clean it up nice, reglue it and make a wall hanging with it, cauz, It's Done. Seen its last hard carve.

If you come to the Demotents, I'm sure there would be something U could find to like ;) (shameless plug for multiple vendors) hehehee.

[Ray]

Geez, guys, get over it, ride on, you are making a fuzz about a board, which is about 6-7 years old and was riddin the way it was suppose to!!! HARD!
Btw. Any idea how many Kesslers break? Ha HA! Every board can break!


Cirus had no reason to respond to Bruce like he did.
Wow, but was it really Bruce's place to add his "senf" here? Not professional IMHO. I have to assume if this would have been a broken Coiler that Cyrus would not have given his S**t to it... anyway, this thread is a total waste of ink :o

Cheers!

[carvedog]

I have never purchased a Virus or Coiler.

I have not met Bruce, Cyrus, Bobby or Frank.

I still want to meet Bruce and Frank.
I would still like to purchase a Virus or a Coiler. Or both.

Our carving community is too small for anyone to start peeing in the pool. No matter how bad they think they need to. :eek:

[Buell]

Geez, guys, get over it, ride on, you are making a fuzz about a board, which is about 6-7 years old and was riddin the way it was suppose to!!! HARD!
Btw. Any idea how many Kesslers break? Ha HA! Every board can break!


Wow, but was it really Bruce's place to add his "senf" here? Not professional IMHO. I have to assume if this would have been a broken Coiler that Cyrus would not have given his S**t to it... anyway, this thread is a total waste of ink :o

Cheers!

So confused. :confused:

Can a Virus defender please tell me who said anything negative in this thread about Virus boards, their construction, or their warranty?

[nekdut]

I'm still not seeing anything in Bruce's language where he even slightly attacks Virus construction. He was giving his (very knowledgeable) perspective on how or why the board may have broken from his experience with his materials and testing. I did not see any insinuation that the construction was poor. I'm not sure why everyone is getting all riled up here. Can't we all just get along? :1luvu: Go out and riiiiide maaaan......

[Dan]

I've contacted frank and it looks like I'm gonna get another tantalus but an evolution series. He says it has some more beef to it and of course all of their cutting edge technology. I find the warranty he offers to be very attractive!!

Sounds like there's going to be some warranty coverage, maybe a discount on a new board? That's pretty awesome -- how many other companies in any industry will honor a warranty claim from someone other than the original purchaser? Thumbs up to Frank for standing behind his products.

[Ray]

Go out and riiiiide maaaan......
Exactly!!! Hard! Break a board :D

[bobdea]

Geez, guys, get over it, ride on, you are making a fuzz about a board, which is about 6-7 years old and was riddin the way it was suppose to!!! HARD!
Btw. Any idea how many Kesslers break? Ha HA! Every board can break!


Wow, but was it really Bruce's place to add his "senf" here? Not professional IMHO. I have to assume if this would have been a broken Coiler that Cyrus would not have given his S**t to it... anyway, this thread is a total waste of ink :o

Cheers!

no, unprofessional is this http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24007&highlight=bruce orhttp://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=24296&page=2

Bruce said nothing ill of said deck just was stating how to find out what the issue was and why some boards fail.
my question is why does Frank seem to have a axe to grind?

[Paulk]

Sounds like there's going to be some warranty coverage, maybe a discount on a new board? That's pretty awesome -- how many other companies in any industry will honor a warranty claim from someone other than the original purchaser? Thumbs up to Frank for standing behind his products.

before this gets out of hand....
I believe Eardragger's intention was, that he is thinking of buying a new Virus, and likes the warranty that is being offered on the NEW board..
I also don't believe there was any offer to honor a warranty claim on the old board.

Frank vs. Bruce?!?!!?!?! I thought these two got along?
gotta love the internet sometimes.

Looking forward to riding the offering from both of these guys out in Aspen!
Long live the SES:)

[Jack Michaud]

I never considered he was upset with Virus or implying the construction was poor quality either.

"I destroyed the Team Tantalus 175!! It happened during normal carving. No crashes, no improper setup, bindings were tight, No user mistakes. I do ride pretty hard but it should not matter!!"

I dunno, I read that as upset and implying poor construction.

[nekdut]

"I destroyed the Team Tantalus 175!! It happened during normal carving. No crashes, no improper setup, bindings were tight, No user mistakes. I do ride pretty hard but it should not matter!!"

I dunno, I read that as upset and implying poor construction.

To me that sounded more like he was proud of the hard riding he was able to deal to the stick.

Written language, especially over the internet, is a tricky thing. :)

[Thor VonRippington]

"I destroyed the Team Tantalus 175!! It happened during normal carving. No crashes, no improper setup, bindings were tight, No user mistakes. I do ride pretty hard but it should not matter!!"

I dunno, I read that as upset and implying poor construction.

+1 ... and it was the reason I was compelled to comment. I've owned many Virus boards and found them to be very well constructed... ditto on Coiler.

And yes... breaks happen... lots of unknown variables possible here

[nekdut]

I own both Coiler and Virus (among others), and both of them are absolutely top notch. I am certain that the actual construction techniques or materials used did not contribute to the issue that was reported here. Either manufacturer's boards will eventually give out after hard and long-term use. And both manufacturer's boards are absolutely mind-blowing to ride too! :D

[skategoat]

Guys, I broke a Coiler two seasons ago and I consider it a badge of honour. I stuffed it into a bank of fresh, man made snow. It was right under the chairlift and I readily admit I was trying to show off with a big, rooster-spraying surfy turn. Instead, I ate it bad.

I showed it to Bruce and I was especially proud when he told me that was the first time he had seen one of his boards break in that manner. And no, I didn't expect him to cover the cost of my stupidity.

My point - every board breaks given the right (or wrong) conditions. No manufacturer is immune.

[nils]

"I didn´t know what you did at that time 2003 / 2004( rumours I heard: You worked as a nurse!?)"

such an elegant attack!
seems no one seems to notice anymore...
there is even "lawyers" that think it's right to defend that way....( did not notice any reason why..)
I'm sorry Jack but I would have stand out as a moderator at a point there...

Anyway, few eyebrows raised only, the vibes are cool right..?

N.

[NateW]

"I destroyed the Team Tantalus 175!! It happened during normal carving. No crashes, no improper setup, bindings were tight, No user mistakes. I do ride pretty hard but it should not matter!!"

I dunno, I read that as upset and implying poor construction.

But not too upset to put blame on himself, and not too poor to stop him from buying another Virus:

"I doubt it will be replaced. Probably gonna buy a new one but a custom that can handle what I dish out to it!"

Somebody get that man a Sawzall. I want to see the gory details. :)

[Cyrus the virus]

Just my 5 cents!
After 23 years of building more than 15.000 custommade snowboards, I think we have learned how to build a board. I think I know good enough to use materials and custommade inserts to prevent inserts from pulling out of the woodcore. Or prevent breaking titanal boards from breaking. At that time the most titanal boards broke, ours lasted! why?
The board was from 2003/2004 it was bought used. we built most of the board for riders weigth, so what happens if now a 250 lbs rider uses a board which was made for a 160 lbs rider.
Our most important aim is that the riders have a safe long lasting board with excellent riding qualities. We use the most exotic materials,which are higly expensive and then we calculate a price.
I have studied mechanical engineering with chemical and composite construction. I worked in different ski and snowboard companies and did engineering and scientifical research in one of the biggest high tech fiber manufaturers worldwide.
So why should I need help from anybody?
Fact is in some circumstances a board can break, a bail of a binding can break and also a baseplate of a binding can break!
The dynamic loads kill the material and sometimes unexperienced riders!
So Mister Varsava, please excuse my sarcasm! But its not your turn to comment others in any way!
Built your boards in your way and let the customers choose!

[Cyrus the virus]

"I didn´t know what you did at that time 2003 / 2004( rumours I heard: You worked as a nurse!?)"

such an elegant attack!
seems no one seems to notice anymore...
there is even "lawyers" that think it's right to defend that way....( did not notice any reason why..)
I'm sorry Jack but I would have stand out as a moderator at a point there...

Anyway, few eyebrows raised only, the vibes are cool right..?

N.

As long as as I´m banned from your homepage, stay there with all your friends and fans and please keep concentrated on your new superduper brandnew hyper innovative "DUAL" supercarvingpowderextremcarveboard! :biggthump
The whole world waited very long for such an innovative unique product!

[dantheman0177]

Written language, especially over the internet, is a tricky thing. :)

Written language is a very tricky thing. We all take for granted the different tones of voice we can adopt but forget that how it sounds in our head when we write it might not be how it comes out at the other end when someone else reads it. Especially with different cultures and their different expectations of their use of the English language.

[skategoat]

Cyrus, I'm a marketing consultant and work with companies to manage and influence their online sentiment. Here is an excerpt from one of my seminars. I don't presume to give you advice. I'm just throwing this out there for your consideration.

1) Address the issue, not the person.
2) Ask for clarification from the original poster.
3) Respect the person's right to have an opinion.
4) Don't engage in a tit-for-tat exchange with negative posters.
5) Avoid emotional language.
6) Remember the Internet is Forever.

[Cyrus the virus]

Cyrus, I'm a marketing consultant and work with companies to manage and influence their online sentiment. Here is an excerpt from one of my seminars. I don't presume to give you advice. I'm just throwing this out there for your consideration.

1) Address the issue, not the person.
2) Ask for clarification from the original poster.
3) Respect the person's right to have an opinion.
4) Don't engage in a tit-for-tat exchange with negative posters.
5) Avoid emotional language.
6) Remember the Internet is Forever.

Thank you, I will try to respect for the future!:biggthump

[skategoat]

Thank you, I will try to respect for the future!:biggthump

My pleasure. The final thing I should have said is that you don't have to respond at all. Sometimes the best course of action is to reply to the poster via private message. Deal with the issue directly and then he posts back on the forum about what great customer service you offered and calls himself out for not treating the product correctly.

Glad to have you posting on BOL and really glad that you are building a superb product. I just wish I could sell more seminars so I could afford a Virus.

[Bruce Varsava]

So Mister Varsava, please excuse my sarcasm! But its not your turn to comment others in any way!
Well IMO it is my turn to comment as the owner asked for an opinion and I do have more experience than most who have never even seen the inside of a snowboard. So far he has looked and it appears not to be an insert issue but then states you mentioned it was probably started by a crack from a previous owner? I would think that a crack would cause a fracture in that immediate area and not allow a big piece of the top to peel off. To me that would appear to now be a bonding issue.
Just my 2.5 cents as I have been building boards for only half as long as you.

[tex1230]

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712487.jpg

[felix]

For people understanding German...

Here is another nice thread how Frank Dietzel (User snowstorm 13) treats his own customers if they tell their opinion about how a Virus broke.

http://www.frozen-backside.de/thread.php?threadid=1665&threadview=0&hilight=&hilightuser=0&page=1

[tommaso2k]

@Felix,

flame wars doesnt really help in this case, you should know this as moderator.

Instead i suggest the guy with the broken board is calling Virus to discuss the issue and i am sure they will find a solution.

I highly recommend to close this threat and enjoy snowboarding instead - so lets get out on the slopes and calm down

Thanks
THomas

[McFussel]

Felix,
Do not use our forum to re-start a flame-war! :smashfrea

[Ladia]

Well guy broke 7 years old USED board. Mr. Varsava probably had to jump to conversation maybe just to say something from experience with his own boards. Maybe Ear dragger can exchange the broken Tantalus for something new. You know what I mean. Schutbby and hungry need some life. I have not ridden anything so boring for long time.:sleep:
To want to be French censor. How to make a new board? Take some 15 years dead bird paint it red and you have 3rd generation.:eplus2:

[Helmut Karvlow]

what thin skin you all have, remember what is intended to be said looses everything when it's typed on a computer. take a breath,what are you going to do when you meet face to face?? have a modern day throw-down?? :boxing_sm
bottom line is everything fails some time or another, even us!!!!!!!
It has been very entertaining though!!!! so if you want to keep attacking each other by all meen's keep it up.

[fin]

As Mr. Karvlow just said "what is intended to be said looses everything when it's typed on a computer" is what I believe happened here and now it has taken on a life of it's own. And not in the best of ways. If we could stop the personal references and finger pointing and stick to the topic at hand, that would be good for this thread. Hate to close this one down.

And don't forget, the starter of a thread can delete the thread at any time. So if it does disappear, it is not always the Mods.

[0815-fahrer]

Good thing Fin,

case is closed since post #38 anyways....


........., and I've contacted frank and it looks like I'm gonna get another tantalus but an evolution series. He says it has some more beef to it and of course all of their cutting edge technology. .

[valsam]

I can break any board and all board break and that's a fact!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have already broken 7 boards (in 12 years)and i could have broken all of my other boards too if i didn't start beeing carefull!

[corey_dyck]

I find the failure analysis stuff fascinating even if it is just speculation from one photo. One can offer their opinion of the failure without necessaril implying that the original product is garbage. I'd say Bruce's analysis is far from saying anything negative, it only listed options.

I'd love to cut that failed board up to diagnose it! And to see what cool tricks Frank used in its construction!

[leeho730]

In a way, I think it is a good thing. This must happen so rarely that if someone breaks a virus board it makes a news!

Imagine someone breaking a burton or k2 or any other mass-produced freeride board. We wouldn't make a big deal out of it.

And the warranty provided was more than super!

It's also good to see that the board builders themselves are interacting with the community.



:biggthump

[stewart Hodgins]

I have had the opportunity to see Bruce build a board and have seen the amount of thought and care he puts in solving small problems and improving his build process. I know that Bruce was not a nurse but worked at a hospital. Personally I think the nurse comment was sexist as I have met male nurses and they work hard and do a valuable job. I do not know Virus, but would like to think that, like any manufacture, he is interested in improving his designs. Good engineering only happens by examining ways that a product does break. Boards break as they have a life expectancy as they are meant to be used. I would like to know how a board is made and why it would fail. As for the issue of being innovative, engineers only improve designs by small degrees each time they redesign a product. I would like to think that all board builders use feedback from customers and test their own designs by riding them to improve their product. I am only 16 but it’s clear that both builders care about their product that is the real issue.

[Ear dragger]

Well, this is quite a thread. I had no idea it could get so many responses! Frank is building me a new board! Tantalus evolution 175, in beatiful Black!! The tantalus has to be the perfect shape for me. I really like the sidecut, and waist width. It was truly amazing what the edge would hold on.
As far as the break, I think it was either the board made it's last turn and gave out, due to use. Or that board was made for a much lighter person, and I took that thing over it's limit. I was sad to break it, but look at the stink I created!!!!
Nobody needs to get upset over this. I am kind of a heavy dude. 215, plus I do try to get low and pressure those edges. The more I think about it, the more I think the board was made for a lighter person. We can only speculate:freak3:

[kevbo]

enjoy your new ride! Stay infected. :1luvu:

[Hotbeans]

If anyone would like to part with their cateks (short plate) due to any concern, please let me know. I'd be happy to take them off your hands! (I'd also really enjoy having a Gladiator or coiler AM)

[frunobulax]

@Ear Dragger: the outcome couldn't be better for you. The Tantalus Evolution, from all I've heard, seems to be a very very fine board. A friend of mine is very pleased with it, and lays big trenches with it.
Evo construction seems to be absolute cutting edge technology in all the words meanings. My Spartan's got Evo construction as well. :1luvu:
Have a look at this quickly cut vid (shot this weekend on Katschberg/Austria) in which you can see 4 Evo Boards (all of them Spartans) at work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uEkB5W6bm8

[Tramp]

My Spartan's got Evo construction as well.
Have a look at this quickly cut vid (shot this weekend on Katschberg/Austria) in which you can see 4 Evo Boards (all of them Spartans) at work http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uEkB5W6bm8
I think boards V-Spartan is better then I sow this video!

[*Ace*]

Evo construction is awesome!!!
That is the same construction as my Skwal.
Hands down the best board I have ridden.

[bobdea]

Evo construction is awesome!!!
That is the same construction as my Skwal.
Hands down the best board I have ridden.

makes sense, lots of those boards are as much skwal as snowboard

[Thor VonRippington]

Evo construction is awesome!!!
That is the same construction as my Skwal.
Hands down the best board I have ridden.

Ace had a custom Virus skwal built for this season
an absolutely beautiful piece of work by Frank

... and Ace is just KILLING it on that thing! Fun to watch! :biggthump

[Hans]

makes sense, lots of those boards are as much skwal as snowboard

Not true. The spartans in the vid mentioned here are about 18 to 20cm wide and are also EVO construction boards ;). You can get almost every VIRUS board in EVO construction.

[frunobulax]

Hans, I don't know if you can get the Evo option for each Virus board. The real wide ones like Scalpel or X-treme are available in Titanal instead.. not sure.
The Spartans are 18cm Boards.

The thing about Evo seems to be that the boards are very stable and damp, esp in crud and bumpy conditions. Spartan shape helps with that, but there is also a major difference between a classic and an Evo Tantalus. Maybe there is a slight loss of snappyness, but you can't have everything in one board.

Tramp, I don't understand. You think the Spartan could do better with a different rider? Sure.. but don't be too harsh about that. We're still learning.
What I wanted to show is how forgiving and stable the Board is. The average carver on a slope with reputedly 100% steepness (=45° degree; I don't really believe these figures, but it's steep anyway) in the mist? You need to trust in your edge to even try this.

[Hans]

I said: ALMOST every Virus Board. Yeah, those Scalpels are one of a kind.

EVo must be one or more layers of carbon and titanal and rubber. I felt a huge difference in my BLING BLING Cyborg EVO I and EVO II. The EVO II just had more stability on early morning icy hardpack corduroy.

[Istvan]

I think for the X-treme and Scalpel the more sophisticated models are called the 'Premium'. But do not ask me what is inside... only God and Frank knows...

Both the Scalpel and the X-treme also exist in Titanal.

I happen to have an X-treme Titanal and I think it is a great board for what it was designed. Soon I'll have the chance to compare it with the Premium edition.

[tex1230]

But do not ask me what is inside... only God and Frank knows...

http://base1.googlehosted.com/base_media?q=http://www.capitolsupply.com/ImageServer.ashx%3Ft%3Dproduct%26h%3D200%26w%3D200 %26imageid%3DCS8408320&size=20&dhm=5c917062&hl=en

[Istvan]

This has to be God. I know Frank and he looks kinda different.... :lol:

[bobdea]

Not true. The spartans in the vid mentioned here are about 18 to 20cm wide and are also EVO construction boards ;). You can get almost every VIRUS board in EVO construction.

what I was trying to say is so many of his boards are so narrow that making a good skwal is no stretch for him because some of his boards are barely snowboards and almost qualify skwals anyway

[Hans]

what I was trying to say is so many of his boards are so narrow that making a good skwal is no stretch for him because some of his boards are barely snowboards and almost qualify skwals anyway

Okay get it. Yes from a Cyborg to a Skwal is not a biggy for an engineer like Frank is.