Kessler 185 Review

[wgarrow]

Finally after a few seasons of listening to the hype about Kesslers I got the chance to use a 185 (thanks Billy and Dave at Hardbooter.com). My first reaction by the time I got down to the lift was “Holy Hell!” Here are my stats so you can gauge this review. Riding alpine for over 20 years, 5’8”, 165lbs, goofy foot, with angles of 55 in the front and 50 in the back. I have raced at all levels but much preferred to freeride. I used to get anywhere from 250-300 days a year on snow but now down to about 50 depending on work. The board was set-up with a Vist plate and F2 bindings.

Now on to the important part: the review. I have been riding this board now for about 6 days on snow and this is a beefy, powerful snowboard. Carving performance was unreal, to say the least. Power, energy, no speed limit. For those who are looking for tremendous “pop” from the tail then this isn’t for you but if you really load up the tail then you do get that sensation, just not like an old school glass board. I am not a huge fan of “popping” off the tail and getting sent into the woods so I like softer tail that gives some forgiveness. This is a straight up race board but not like the old race boards that kicked your ass every time you weren’t spot on, it is very forgiving. This combination of power and forgiveness lets you ride anything with confidence. On the first day it was perfect groomers and this board I could relax, or be aggressive, and it responded well to both styles. We ripped race inspired GS turns top to bottom and even through in some Eurocarves for good measure…not to mention some switch riding. The problem with such perfect conditions I can’t fully put this through the paces and it left me wishing that I was back at Whiteface on a blue ice day. On New Years Eve we got up to Snowbasin, which is usually perfect but that it definitely wasn’t that day. My friends from out here said they hit some ice but I just called it good ole hardpack. Coming down the “iciest” part of the run this Kessler didn’t skid a bit, made me feel like Jean Nerva in Chill “you carve, you carve, you carve, you carve…no skid even if it’s icy”

If I hade to have one board this would be it, no doubt. This is especially true with the Vist plate on it. I am going to throw that Vist plate on a Prior very soon to see exactly how much of the feel is influenced by it. I know some freeriders don’t want to ride the Vist or Hangel due to the weight or for whatever other reason but I can tell you that I love the Vist (easier to move from one board to the next) and don’t want to ride without some type of plate system.

This weekend I will be shooting some video to go along with this review and a Park City Mountain Resort review. I was supposed to get some videoing done last week but that didn’t work out. Look for the video being posted over at the Hardbooter.com blog site plus I will try to post it here. Again, a huge thanks to Dave and Billy. See ya on the snow. If you are riding Park City look for me and we will go out make some turns.

[Buell]

Thanks for the review Will! Glad to see you getting in some nice turns.

Are you still coaching some?

Buell

[Jack Michaud]

Nice. I am working on my own review of Kessler vs. Donek vs. Prior vs. Coiler now. I only have a handful of days on the Kessler so far, but "beefy" and "powerful" are words that have popped into my head while riding the Kessler. As for how it does on eastern conditions... it does very well on rain soaked then frozen then groomed granular.

[wgarrow]

Buell--Yup I still coach the US Deaf Snowboard Team. We have our Deaflympics 2011 in Slovakia. My goal is for the team to medal 9 of the possible 18 medals for snowboard. Japan is our biggest competition. You going to come to PC anytime?

Jack--I have had the chance to at least take a run on all those and all of them are great in their own right. I thought the Donek (it was a prototype) was real nice especially for a lighter rider. The Prior is what most of my team right now is on. I have always liked how Chris makes a board, maybe the best all mountain race inspired board. I will be riding the Prior PGS board soon. Unfortunately I haven't taken more than 2 runs on the Coiler. The two runs I did take I really liked the way it rode. Will be looking out for your review.

[LeeW]

Dayum, what a surprise to see you posting, Coach.

Let's VP soon.

[Buell]

Buell--Yup I still coach the US Deaf Snowboard Team. We have our Deaflympics 2011 in Slovakia. My goal is for the team to medal 9 of the possible 18 medals for snowboard. Japan is our biggest competition. You going to come to PC anytime?


Nice work on continuing to coach the US Deaf Snowboard Team. Half the medals is a big goal. I think the Japanese deaf team was at Timberline in May / June our very first season of carving 5 years ago.

I might be at PC in late February or possibly during the WTC. Otherwise, Rebecca and I just got to Powder Mountain yesterday from Oregon. We'll be here until mid March. We will definitely be carving at Snowbasin sometimes so let us know if you are in the area. I still won't be able to keep up with you though. ;)

[WinterGold]

Nice review! Thank you for sharing! :biggthump

Of course I had similar experiences when using my 185 Kessler. Some of the "Kessler magic" was even more obvious for me on the slalom board.

Amazing rides ... everyone should try one ;) ...

[koldo]

Buell--Yu We have our Deaflympics 2011 in Slovakia.


Is there also PGS event? I would really like to see some pros riding gates :)

[pow4ever]

Thank you for the review!!!
Look forward to see the video.

Quote "I used to get anywhere from 250-300 days a year "
You sir are my hero :eek:

Can you elaborate on beefy? That's an interesting term :)

--
David

[John Gilmour]

today I spent 2 hours getting foamed with Strolz liners and superfeet footbeds- fin sold me some old shells of last years proto which is the 700T

Very curious..... as I have ridden other metals but not this.

the sides of the nose reminds me of the feeling when I looked at the old checker pig 1980's or wild duck boards 1990s when you thought.... hmmmm I bet this will work really welll....

So my quiver, for comparision..

2 original 158 Madds one with Catek step ins (silly as I no longer have step in boots- I have to convert these) , one with TD2 (needs a damping disc and longer screws)
1 F2 roadster w intecs
1 Rossignol Judge 168 with 3 year old Union Force DLX
1 Rossignol Judge 159 with Catek freeride 2
1 Kessler 185 PGS with small plate clip in cateks
1 Kessler 168 BX needs bindings
1 Salomon Sick stick 160--- looks best with matching wood tone Unions. It carves like garbage..a true struggle in futility..but in crud/pow it is unreal.

Stuff to sell..
New in Box david bowie Rome soft bindings.. (I'm a sucker for 70's pop culture)

I can't wait to ride this PGS....

Will.... super fun riding w/ you last year... - what tune is on that Kessler?? I have to figure out what mine needs.

[wgarrow]

Buell--I will make sure and let you know if I make it up there but I kinda doubt it except if we go up for WTC. Just too busy with teaching plus we are hosting a very big Deaf Studies conference this April. I do get up to PC 3-4 days a week though so let me know if you come down. One of my athletes has his pass at the Basin. Hes a ripper you would have fun riding with him, his name is Jeff. Let me know if you want me to introduce you two.

WinterGold--I will try the SL stick soon...I have heard nothing but great things about it and if it is anything close to the PGS it will rock for sure.

koldo--Yes we have PGS plus three other events, PSL, Boardercross, and Halfpipe. We will be competing at Vysoké Tatry, Slovakia from January 19th-25th. Come on out and introduce yourself..we will go riding. Maybe you can show me a good bar too!

pow4ever--Beefy, I guess what I mean is that this is the first board that I have been on that I didn't feel I could just overpower at will. I just feel that whatever I bring that board will take. Does that make sense? I wish I was still getting that amount of days on snow but a 16yr old daughter takes up too much of my time now haha. I just talked to a guy that will film me and as long as he doesn't get called out to work he will shoot me on Saturday so I should be able to get the video up this weekend.

John--As always it was my pleasure to get out and make some turns with you. I tuned it with .5 base and 2 side with no detune. I never detune my boards. The structure is what it came with, I didn't get a new stone grind. Wax is whatever LF or HF fits the day.

Lee--Shoot me an email and we can set up a time to VP. You coming to PC for the tryouts?

[wgarrow]

koldo--I don't know where my mind was but the Deaflympics will be Feb11-20, 2011. Sorry about the wrong info before.

[Silver Bullet]

Are you talking about the KST shape that the Catek folks are selling?

sj

[koldo]

koldo--Yes we have PGS plus three other events, PSL, Boardercross, and Halfpipe. We will be competing at Vysoké Tatry, Slovakia from January 19th-25th. Come on out and introduce yourself..we will go riding. Maybe you can show me a good bar too!



I live about 5 hour from Vysoké Tatry, so hopefully i Ll be able to make it there at that time. Don´t know many bars there, but we will surely find something, that shouldn´t be a problem in Slovakia :biggthump

[wgarrow]

SilverBullet--Not sure what Catek are selling but this is the KST blacktop board (Got mine over from Dave and Billy at Hardbooter.com)

koldo--I will make sure and keep in touch with you for next year, as soon as I know our race schedule I will let you know so you can plan accordingly. Sounds like Slovakia has good bars

[stevo]

just curious if you changed your stance width, angles, lifts, cants, etc going to the metal boards from the glass boards. If you did, could you explain?

Thank you

[wgarrow]

stevo--I haven’t seen that picture in years—thanks for the memories. Comparing my setup in that picture or any glass board to today is completely different so where do I start??? I guess I will start with the boots. Back then I was using race stock Rossignol ski boots that were modified to allow more ankle flexion. It wasn’t softer just more movement. Back then I needed a much stiffer boot since the boards were a lot narrower and stiffer themselves. I do still miss the solid sole on those boots; I wish a snowboard hardboot manufacturer would make their boots with a solid sole. Now I am using either Deeluxe or UPZ, whichever I can get my hands on. With the softer boots I have been able to widen my stance as well. I have always been a big supporter of wide stances, in that picture, if I remember right; my stance width is probably about 19”. Now I ride anywhere from 20.5-21.5. I like having a wide stance for stability while carving and for landing big jumps. Also I always rode flat, no cants or lifts. Now I have been using slight heel lift on the back foot and toe lift on the front foot. Again for me this has to do more with the having everything a lot less stiff. Before I would have to really have a lot of fore movement to initiate the turn whereas now, between the shapes, flex, and plate systems you can stay centered and the boards initiate very easily. This property combined with the dampness of the boards is, in my very humble opinion, the best thing to happen to alpine snowboarding in a very long time. The ease and energy efficiency is revolutionary for me. Makes alpine riding easy and fun. Well it’s always been fun but it used to be a lot more work. As for my angles, I have always used the same principle, as low as I can without overhang. Most of the time I don’t know what angles I ride, just happened for this review I made sure I knew. I hope this answered your question. If not I will try to clarify.

[stevo]

Will, perfect thanks for taking the time. i'll keep an eye out at hardbooter too

[Michael Pukas]

Will - thanks for posting this thread, and for all of the great input. Definitely one of the more useful threads around here lately...

I've been riding riding my 185 Kessler for about 2 1/2 season now, and although I don't have nearly the amount of time or experience as you on plates, my sentiments shadow your exactly. I find the Kessler to be very aggressive and forgiving at the same time. Such a dynamic board. Very damp, yet not flubbery, with a decent amount of pop.

I haven't seen any real hero snow here in CO this year, so most of what I've been riding has been hard boiler plate man made or squishy choppy crud. The Kessler handles it all far better than I do. If I get too sketched out to carve something, it's so easy to skid the tail around to control speed. Very manageable in any conditions.

The one thing I don't like about the board is that it's designed to go down hill. Fast. Meaning, it initiates a turn brilliantly, but doesn't like to finish a turn across the hill - it just wants to go down hill again. I have to work harder than I like to to get it come across. But that is what it's been designed for, and I'm learning to adjust to it.

[Fastskiguy]

That's the thing about high quality gear, it makes it easier, not harder. I chuckle when people say "it's a high performance board, it'll hand you your ass if you're not 110%" because the best stuff makes it easier, not harder.



Will - thanks for posting this thread, and for all of the great input. Definitely one of the more useful threads around here lately...

I've been riding riding my 185 Kessler for about 2 1/2 season now, and although I don't have nearly the amount of time or experience as you on plates, my sentiments shadow your exactly. I find the Kessler to be very aggressive and forgiving at the same time. Such a dynamic board. Very damp, yet not flubbery, with a decent amount of pop.

I haven't seen any real hero snow here in CO this year, so most of what I've been riding has been hard boiler plate man made or squishy choppy crud. The Kessler handles it all far better than I do. If I get too sketched out to carve something, it's so easy to skid the tail around to control speed. Very manageable in any conditions.

The one thing I don't like about the board is that it's designed to go down hill. Fast. Meaning, it initiates a turn brilliantly, but doesn't like to finish a turn across the hill - it just wants to go down hill again. I have to work harder than I like to to get it come across. But that is what it's been designed for, and I'm learning to adjust to it.

[wgarrow]

Michael--I agree this board loves to go fast down the hill. I do not do a lot of crossing the fall line so it really fits me. I am jealous of you riding hardpack, that is the one thing I really miss about Whiteface.

Fastskiguy--I couldn't agree more, these high end boards make life much easier!

[Michael Pukas]

Michael--I agree this board loves to go fast down the hill. I do not do a lot of crossing the fall line so it really fits me. I am jealous of you riding hardpack, that is the one thing I really miss about Whiteface.
Hey Will - I'm jealous that you can ride down the fall line on the hard pack! And I'm jealous that you don't have hard pack - that's all we have right now.

[Pat Donnelly]

http://www.viddler.com/explore/HardBooter/videos/23/

[WinterGold]

Thanks for the video!!! Very informative ... I would love to join your group for a little session :D ...

I´ve heard about some differences between the Kesslers and the SGs from some very competent racers. I´m really looking forward to your comparison ... can´t wait ;) ...

[Michael Pukas]

Thanks for the video!!! Very informative ... I would love to join your group for a little session :D ...

I´ve heard about some differences between the Kesslers and the SGs from some very competent racers. I´m really looking forward to your comparison ... can´t wait ;) ...
Yes, great vid Will - can't wait to see more!

BTW - what are the differences between the Kessler and SG 185 PGS boards? I've heard the SG's are beefier and more damp, but that's all I've heard. What else? Cheers! mpp

[wgarrow]

WinterGold--Anytime you get over to PC let me know and we will go out and rip some turns for sure. The more to join our sessions the better.

Michael Pukas--Not to sure what the differences exactly are but I do believe that the amount of rocker is quite different.

Yesterday I got to test both the Kessler and SG SL boards. It was my first day on a SL board since 92. Between these two i thought the SG had a softer nose but a more solid tail. The Kessler seemed easier to wash out some speed at the end of the turn if needed. Again this was my first day on those boards so that is really just a first impression. I know Billy will be doing a good write up of both soon so check over at http://hardbooter.net/blog/ as well.

The next comparison I will focus on is Kessler stock vs. Kessler custom.

Glad you guys liked the video...We will be shooting a lot more especially after next weekend for me (I am out of town next weekend). We have a guy that is going to shoot for us with some really good equipment so the shaky cam stuff should not happen.

[WinterGold]

Thanks for your invitation, but that would be a long trip ... :(

The SGs are supposed to be more aggressive and they are stiffer (especially the tail). Therefore they are a bit harder to ride and mistakes are more likely to happen.
What wgarrow said about "washing out some speed" can also happen unintentionally when not pressuring the Kessler correctly (also at the initiation of a turn).
But the Kesslers are more forgiving and easier to steer.
That´s what Austrian Pros said ... but keep in mind that those differences are not really big and both concepts seem to be very successful :ices_ange ...

[Michael Pukas]

Thanks for the responses, WG & WG. Ha! I just made that up. sorry for being corny... ahem...

Will - looking forward to hearing more on the SG's, and especially the Kessler v Kessler Custom. Do you know what's different about them? I bought a used Kessler last year from a member here, who got it from a racer, and I have know idea the specs, other than it's a 185 PGS. Oh, and really looking forward to the new vids!

Will, I have a couple other inquiries - what boots are you riding? And can you elaborate on what and why you like the Viste Plate? I gather one of the main benefits is it allows you to keep your stance the same regardless of how the board twists and bends underneath. Cheers! mpp

[wgarrow]

Michael--I hope this isn't too long.

As for your first question—I have absolutely no idea other than what I can see and touch. It seems stiffer when I flex it in my house and also appears to be thicker under foot. If any of that is right is anybody’s guess. Most of the time I have no idea what my stance width or angles are, not to mention specs of the board I am on. I have never been a stickler about specs, just get me on a board and I’ll try my best to make it turn. Sorry not much more help to you with that.

Now on to your next set of questions. I am riding a pair of last years Deeluxe Track 700 with red BTS kit and Booster straps. These boots are very nice boot but I do think they are a bit soft. I have noticed on the Kessler when I really crank down they don’t seem to have the support (stiffness) that I would like. I will get my hands on a pair of UPZ and when I do I will let you know which I liked better and why.

I will try not to go on and on about the Vist but I must warn you I do think plate systems are a real and tangible improvement to alpine riding, so much so that I would like to test traditional glass board (with the new shape and rocker of course) with a Vist plate to a metal board without a plate. I remember a long time ago we used to dream of having a plate system. Anyway, what I like the best about having the Vist is the amount of leverage it allows me to gain. That leverage puts so much more pressure over the entire length of the edge that it completely changes how you ride. Talk about making it easier, there is no way to compare it, doing top to bottom runs doesn’t wear me out like it used to. I would like to think that I am not wearing out because of all the cross training I do in MMA and racquetball but I honestly don’t think that is the full reason why. Secondly, it allows me to run lower angles. By doing so I feel much more stable and I feel I can react more quickly to changes in the terrain. Just don’t ask me my angles…I would have to go look to find out but the last time I rode the PGS they were 55 in the front and 50 in the back. Lastly, like you said the Vist lets you stance stay the same no matter what the board is doing. I like this because your stance stays canted or not canted (mine doesn’t have cants) to what you like. Without the Vist I am always fighting my knees to stay apart because the board is bending and making my knees fold together. This coupled with the free and natural bending of the board helps with edge pressure (again) and my balance. This is just my humble opinion and for all I know it might be wrong but I can tell you without reservation that if at all possible I will only ride with a plate system and I am in no way a racer. This has made me think, maybe I should/will do a video comparison on one board, a few runs with the Vist and a few runs without it. I hope this explanation was clear…if not or you need me to explain something else just ask away, I am more than happy to answer anything I can.

[WinterGold]

@Michael - you find my take on the Vist plate (and Flex plate) in the thread "Plates", if you are interested :ices_ange ...

wgarrow, I completely agree with your feelings on the Vist plate, but maybe losing some weight would be a nice touch (as I explained in my thread). Still, I´m mostly on plates now ...

[nekdut]

Will,

You almost get that combo (fiberglass + plate + new shapes), on recent Tinklers. The Tinkler plate appears to function pretty similar to Vist with only the middle locked. The bindings are isolated from the board flex and your stance does not narrow up as much when highly flexed. I found the "magic carpet" feeling on Tinklers more isolated and damp than compared to a metal board with no plate (comparing full system Tinkler w/TD3s to a Coiler NSR w/TD3s.)

I next need to get a Vist on the Coiler to do a real comparison.

[wgarrow]

nekdut--That sounds very cool. I noticed you are in LA, I will be in LA County tomorrow thru saturday, if you had one you wouldn't mind showing me I would like to see it. I will buy the beer.

[nekdut]

Will,

I am in LA right now but unfortunately my Tinkler is up at Mammoth. I would be glad to show it to you if I had it here.

Take a look at Doug Dryer's ridiculous 252cm Tinkler for an idea of how it works:

http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061225/SPORTS05/612250310/1013/SPORTS&nav_category=SPORTS

The top plate is attached to the board only in the middle, allowing for a smooth, kink-free arc. Bindings are only attached to the top plate, not down to the board itself. The snow stix mounting points are slotted so that the entire plate can slide freely as the board flexes. When flexed, the plate slides on the surface, shearing under tension, controlling vibration by way of friction. This plate system, along with snow stix and the split tail/nose, allow for a crazy amount of customization on the fly. I believe Dryer has an even more insane 282cm Tinkler now as well.

Also attached is a picture of the one I own.

If you're in town and want to grab that beer, I'm sure we could round up some of the local carvers if you have some time. It would be great to meet you.


-Neil

[Michael Pukas]

today I spent 2 hours getting foamed with Strolz liners
Hey John - can you tell me where you got your Strolz liners in Aspen?

[Michael Pukas]

Will - how's the other reviews and vids of the custom Kessler and SG boards? Haven't heard from you in a while... missed you guys @ the SES this year. :biggthump

[nsa97]

Hey Will, it's Scott from NSA. Shoot me an email when you get a chance. Looking forward to catching up.

All the Best,

Scott-

[NTwoO]

For those missing background information, check out the Kaane report.

Background: The Kaane ruined my left foot with a double forward loop on day 1. Day 2 was spent looking through the village and finding out how I can post the Hot Blast 167 that I sold on extremecarving.com... and praying to all deities to heal my foot as quick as possible. Day 3 saw us on slalom training with my foot taped in very tight and my SG released on a very challenging slalom. The foot was still a little dodgy, but was improving by the minute and by the afternoon (and an hour in bed with my foot up) things were starting to look peachy. The trusty Swoard was taken out of the board bag and the afternoon was spent playing with deep carves. On Day 4 the Kessler Cross was reserved, but the Swoard was providing plenty of joy and the reliability of the known was chosen to regain confidence.

Day 5: this day was planned for Giant Slalom training. The Kessler alpine boards were in high demand, but with my frugal use of the boards, the 185 was MINE ALL MINE for the slalom training!! :D The first few runs were a little tricky and getting the 185 turning was more than I was used to. The trainer was giving me hell for riding like an old lady, but perseverence being the name of the game got me closer to to the 185 with every run. By the end the run was reasonably neat with a nice rhythm coming into the turns at the end of the run. The success story of day 3 was repeated with the hotel only 1 minute walk from the lift. With a half an hour on bed with my feet in the air and shaking out my legs, I was feeling as strong as a bear for the afternoon. The 185 was unleashed on lovely open pistes with much enjoyment. The crisp and predictable behaviour was a warm welcome after the trigger happy Kaane with the machinegun in its pocket. Every turn was super stable with immense edge grip. At no second did I feel that I was going too fast (even though the speeds were rediculous at times!!) On the black slopes with the carves going balistic, it was always possible to up he ante and dig in your rail deeper to get the board to produce fire cracker G forces!! Man what an absolute blast!! This kind of behaviour is what I've come to know and respect in true race quality boards. No unexpected behaviour, no crazy stuff. Just good, dependable and reliable railing at any speed. And if you drive it like a rinoserous, the board will politely let you know that it wants to be treated nicer if it can not handle the abuse. If it can, it'll keep quiet and do its work dilegently. How I wish that the little beauty is affordable enough that I can convince myself to include her in my quiver!! It is most certainly a very fine piece of craftsmanship that is also a magical free carve board when the pistes are empty enough to allow it. A few people are nice, though, to see them stop and stare at this lightning bolt carving trenches in the piste that would shame Catterpillar earth moving equipment.