softboot bindings for carving

[teach]

I'm looking for advice/opinions on Ride softboot bindings for carving. I have two pairs I bought at the end of last year and am considering using or selling: SPI and CAD. I use Burton C60s on my main board (arbor crossbow 166); all the other bindings I've used are much older Burton Customs or similar. I have size 13 boots (Northwave Decade) and am about 190 lbs. The CAD sounded good because of the tilt adjustments, but looking at it I'm not so sure. Advice?

I understand Nidecker 900s are the way to go. I *almost* found some last year.

Since this is the Bomber forum, I have to say I just got a hardboot setup (with TD3s) and am going to try it out tomorrow or the next day.

[bobdea]

I'm looking for advice/opinions on Ride softboot bindings for carving. I have two pairs I bought at the end of last year and am considering using or selling: SPI and CAD. I use Burton C60s on my main board (arbor crossbow 166); all the other bindings I've used are much older Burton Customs or similar. I have size 13 boots (Northwave Decade) and am about 190 lbs. The CAD sounded good because of the tilt adjustments, but looking at it I'm not so sure. Advice?

I understand Nidecker 900s are the way to go. I *almost* found some last year.

Since this is the Bomber forum, I have to say I just got a hardboot setup (with TD3s) and am going to try it out tomorrow or the next day.

nidecker 900s are alright, not leaps and bounds ahead of the ride bindings though and the ride bindings are easier on my ankles
the burton stuff is good as well.
I have a rad air reto lamm if you'd take that as a trade for a set of your bindings.

[slopestar]

flow! love them. used since 96'

[chippermon]

Ya, Flow are the way to go. I don't like sitting on my ass to do up my bindings and I don't like taking too much time strapping my boot in either. Tons of support and adjustment. No pain on your feet. The Flows are mint.

[Softcarver]

I just upgraded from the RIDE CAD bindings to the CATEK FR2 Pros. I loved my Rides and had two great seasons on them. I am 215 lbs and 6'-2" and am really hard on my bindings. I bent the heelcup at the end of last season due to pressure from the highback. Ride covered it under warranty, but I wanted to check out the Cateks. I only have three days on the Cateks and it took me a full day just to dial them in, but I love them already. Very easy to adjust and much more damp and responsive than the Rides. The body also appears very durable although I had an issue with my ankle strap already (they are used). I have ridden many other bindings and aside from the FR2's I have found no other binding comparable for freeriding. If you just bought the rides I would try them out unless you can step up to the Cateks. The Cateks are definitely worth the extra coin. I do miss the convertible toe strap though and am going to stick a set on the Cateks for the ultimate soft carving binding.

[Seraph]

Ya, Flow are the way to go. I don't like sitting on my ass to do up my bindings and I don't like taking too much time strapping my boot in either. Tons of support and adjustment. No pain on your feet. The Flows are mint.

Just curious about the flows because I did some searches on them and I saw a lot of complaints about broken parts. Is that an old issue that has been resolved?

[Loc]

Anyone have an opinion on this model from Nidecker? Looks like it's their top freeride binding.

http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Nidecker-Act-Carbon-Snowboard-Binding/NDK0057M.html

[bobdea]

Just curious about the flows because I did some searches on them and I saw a lot of complaints about broken parts. Is that an old issue that has been resolved?

it seems to be, but there are are better binding with the same type of entry that supposedly work better.
I have a set that I've been on all of once and let me tell you they're no better than any other binding I've used of the same vintage. amp 5s are the ones I have. I had ridden them WAY back and hated them but these are better than the ones I hated. one thing that can't be denied is they are not as painful as strap bindings.

people who tout them for carvability I'd really like to know what they are referencing against.
I like most Ride bindings, burton, catek, nidecker 800 and 900s and a few others better.
I'd like to try out their top end bindings but by design I think they won't be that much better. could be wrong though.

[bobdea]

Anyone have an opinion on this model from Nidecker? Looks like it's their top freeride binding.

http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Nidecker-Act-Carbon-Snowboard-Binding/NDK0057M.html

looks like the 800, which I liked better than the 900

[Call me jack]

i've heard flow bindings are good for carving in softies...

[Dave ESPI]

I dislike Flow bindings because they can be difficult to adjust to your boot and do not always give the same tension and hold depending on how you tie/lace your boots and also the shape of boots vary between companies.

I have a set of RIDE Betas and I like them. I found however, that the Rossignol HC3000 is one of my all time faves and is super responsive with just the right amount of flex. TRANSWORLD also rated them one of the top 10 bindings of the year if memory serves from the buyers guide I have lying around somewhere.

http://www.evogear.com/snowboard-bindings/rossignol-hc3000-binding-2009.aspx

I have 4 pair of a few makes of both entry level and high end rozzi bindings and they are all tough as nails and super comfortable. I don't care for "toe-caps" as they tend to come off the boots when we carve hard, so the "over the toe" straps work good.

The K2 Formula bindings are nice also for under 200.00

If you have money to burn and want to be worried about people jacking your gear, go for the Catek FR2s. I love mine, but don't let them out of my sight for a second even when locked up.

[inkaholic]

I use 2yr old Flow pro fr and like them a lot. The only issue that I have had in two pairs was a chair that came down on top of both highbacks and cracked them. They were still ridable till I got replacements. I haven't used any other modern SB binding so no comparisons from me.

The newer models have ratchets for the top straps instead of the push and play ones that the older models had. This makes adjusting much easier and even more comfortable since you can get them just right.

I know that the NXT versions had an early issue with shoulder bolts (holding the strap to the baseplate) but have heard that the problem has been corrected.

As a side note, my brother was just in town and hadn't ridden in 3yrs. He rode my NS Premier 172, Flows and Malamutes for a day. He was able to carve better than the majority of people on softies at Lovey. He loved the bindings and was stoked on the control that the newer equipment made.

Concussed and KarverKai are on Flows and love them also.

Ink

[Dave Winters]

Love my Flows. Never had a breakage problem...

[biggerwrangler]

Just curious about the flows because I did some searches on them and I saw a lot of complaints about broken parts. Is that an old issue that has been resolved?

yeah the little plastic nuts break where the straps attach to the base up by the toes on the inside, reverse the screw ad a washer and a locknut call it good. replace as they break, otherwise solid as the day is long or REI them REI has lifetime warranty on everything they sell.
Dam fine setup thou,

[dingbat]

I like Salomon snowboard bindings simply because they're stiff, do the job well and I've been abusing the cheapest pair they make for the last 6-7 years without a single problem. :biggthump

That said, I can't vouch for their quality of late. :confused:

[bobdea]

yeah, go with a 3rd strap if you want none of the benefits of softboots and most of the drawbacks of hardboots and some drawbacks that neither of the others have.
makes no sense unless you have a retro fetish or want to feel cool on franken bindings. there's some really good bindings out there that adding a strap to only inhibits performance.

[Dr D]

CATEKS can't be beat if you can afford em:biggthump

[jetkin]

Does anyone have experience with the SP Fastec bindings that Catek is promoting/selling on their website (http://catek.com/SP-fastec-binding.htm)?

[Gtanner]

At the moment, I have a set of Technine Pro's. Before them I was on some older Flows. Technine makes a decent binding, but it isn't uber-stiff (although my older boots aren't helping either). I can definately still rail with them though.

I got them at an end of year sale, ugly as sin, but the sub 200$ couldn't be beat.

-Gord

[Dave ESPI]

SBSailor, I still love my 3 strap Burton Custom Freeride bindings also. I ride with a softer old-style boot without a double shell design and I enjoy how I get ankle flex and power transfer and can micro-manage my board and still have that secure feeling that the boot is exactly where I want it when I want to shove the gas-pedal to the ground and drive the board hard and not have all the pressure on my quad and calf muscles to maintain edgehold.

I say : RIDE WHAT YOU LIKE.

If you are at SES We definately should hook up for a SBS (Softboot sesson) with video so we can thumb our noses at the eletist bastards among us....

:biggthump

EDIT: +1 for SALOMON
Dingbat, I have a set of Salomon bindings (with the lateral lean "wings" on the highback) I gave to a friend of mine and they indeed are reliable and take a massive beating as well.

[ecshredder]

I used to use a booster strap around my back foot high back and it felt more responsive to turn. But I quit using it because my back knee got sore.

[bobdea]

ESPI likes them he's a super rad dude. he was also claiming his budweiser promotional board is better than anything else on the market awhile back.

anyway, if you have garbage boots instead on ruining a decent pair of bindings get new boots.
if you have decent boots and still feel the need for 3 straps you ARE ON THE WRONG INTERFACE! there's a reason why no one makes them anymore. it's because they suck. period.
when you use a three strap binding locked out you're basically making your boot into this http://www.besportier.com/archives/ski-boot-technology-new-apex-ski-boots-1.jpg

most snowboard specific hard boots have a bigger range of movement than a locked 3 strapper. the whole advantage of softboots is the range of movement.
there's no argument about it except for a few yahoos here and there. the same types that if they were skiers would still be saying sidecut and plastic boots are a just fads.

[bobdea]

I say : RIDE WHAT YOU LIKE.

If you are at SES We definately should hook up for a SBS (Softboot sesson) with video so we can thumb our noses at the eletist bastards among us....

:biggthump

EDIT: +1 for SALOMON
Dingbat, I have a set of Salomon bindings (with the lateral lean "wings" on the highback) I gave to a friend of mine and they indeed are reliable and take a massive beating as well.

OMFG what heap did those come out of?
those were garbage when they were new.
I'm not a elitist, you're a jack ass for offering poor advice in regards to soft gear. WTF, the guy was asking for something that is good and is willing to drop coin on it and now you're suggesting raiding the retired rentals bin for sub par decade old bindings that in their day were a pain in the ass because they were too wide in the heel cup so most boots had slop in them unless you have the same vintage salomon boots. Having the boots for those bindings was a nightmare as well as they did not fit in burton and a few other vendor's binding. ****ing stroke of genius to sell a boot that does not work with the most common bindings on the market. but that is salomon.

there's some really incredible softboot stuff out there that's been made in the last 5 years, if you can't make it work get hard boots.

[CARV-NY]

I love my Burton custom's for comfort and control mainly because i love the toe cap strap. (probably the only thing of Burton's that i like).

[slopestar]

it seems to be, but there are are better binding with the same type of entry that supposedly work better.
I have a set that I've been on all of once and let me tell you they're no better than any other binding I've used of the same vintage. amp 5s are the ones I have. I had ridden them WAY back and hated them but these are better than the ones I hated. one thing that can't be denied is they are not as painful as strap bindings.

people who tout them for carvability I'd really like to know what they are referencing against.
I like most Ride bindings, burton, catek, nidecker 800 and 900s and a few others better.
I'd like to try out their top end bindings but by design I think they won't be that much better. could be wrong though.

bobdea
I have riden flow's from the prototype days. 96' all aluminum: base plate would bend and pull away from mounting disc/then 97' carbon fiber: highback would brake at hinge point like the early burton 3 hole bindings. Both with backpack style pull straps instead of the locking type out today. 2001-2004 were all crap and broke while they were figuring out the cable and locking mechanism.
I have had burton's 2 and 3 strap from 90'-96'/89' kemper 3 strap/92' burton plates/early sims 2 strap/burton race and carrier plates/etc...etc... and currently ride flow amp 9's. They work best with flow boots! In the early days you would have to grind off high spots on your heel to clear the highback. The aluminum highback would also dig into the topsheet and sidewall on your back foot/heelside edge. The in, up and go cannot be beat. I hate to wait and constantly wait for other soggy bottoms or bench warmers to strap in. Set them up properly and they work great every time with no breakage. The only drawback I have is that I love forward lean and the highback on my front foot does dig a little into my calf. I do rotate the highbacks to parallel with the heelside edge with an all mountain/freestyle stance of 15 & -3. If the highback had the hook built in (like the orange mission bindings pictured previously) so that on heelside there was no calf dig I would love it! Maybe there is a franken binding in my near future. I did try a set up burton customs a few years back when flow was having the breakage issues. CRAP. Never again:barf:
My 2 cents has been spent. Take it or leave it on the counter for the next guy. :argue: I love the flow bindings and will continue to ride them on my softie setup:1luvu:

[slopestar]

I love my Burton custom's for comfort and control mainly because i love the toe cap strap. (probably the only thing of Burton's that i like). "Freestyle snowboarding is for people who can't carve"

I can carve circles on a freestyle...shameless plug...

[Dave ESPI]

Bob posted twice in a row... this must mean FLAME ON.....

LOL.

even on IGNORE... its fun to watch him flail around :biggthump

Here bobbi... this aughta frost yer sack....

[bobdea]

bobdea
I have riden flow's from the prototype days. 96' all aluminum: base plate would bend and pull away from mounting disc/then 97' carbon fiber: highback would brake at hinge point like the early burton 3 hole bindings. Both with backpack style pull straps instead of the locking type out today. 2001-2004 were all crap and broke while they were figuring out the cable and locking mechanism.
I have had burton's 2 and 3 strap from 90'-96'/89' kemper 3 strap/92' burton plates/early sims 2 strap/burton race and carrier plates/etc...etc... and currently ride flow amp 9's. They work best with flow boots! In the early days you would have to grind off high spots on your heel to clear the highback. The aluminum highback would also dig into the topsheet and sidewall on your back foot/heelside edge. The in, up and go cannot be beat. I hate to wait and constantly wait for other soggy bottoms or bench warmers to strap in. Set them up properly and they work great every time with no breakage. The only drawback I have is that I love forward lean and the highback on my front foot does dig a little into my calf. I do rotate the highbacks to parallel with the heelside edge with an all mountain/freestyle stance of 15 & -3. If the highback had the hook built in (like the orange mission bindings pictured previously) so that on heelside there was no calf dig I would love it! Maybe there is a franken binding in my near future. I did try a set up burton customs a few years back when flow was having the breakage issues. CRAP. Never again:barf:
My 2 cents has been spent. Take it or leave it on the counter for the next guy. :argue: I love the flow bindings and will continue to ride them on my softie setup:1luvu:

that's actually very reasonable and a very fair portrait of them.

for me, reliability has been paramount due to working on hill (but not teaching)
I need to score a set of NXTs to compare directly with cateks. but yeah, the old flows were bad.
like I said the newer ones are better and the SP and rad air bindings among others have the same entry system. might be worth a look.

[bobdea]

Bob posted twice in a row... this must mean FLAME ON.....

LOL.

even on IGNORE... its fun to watch him flail around :biggthump

Here bobbi... this aughta frost yer sack....

yes, you just proved how retarded you are.

[BlueB]

Heated discussion over here... Just quick $0.02 CAD...

To carve like on hard boots (forward angles) I liked old Burton 3-strap the most, combined with hardboot tongue stack under laces of softies. Bindings were squeeky and sceary, I feared the failure and I stoped riding like that. You might just as well ride the hard boots for anything steeper than say 35 degrees...

For lower angles, I liked the Nidecker Carbons the best. 800 is plenty stiff, I can imagine how stiff is the 900...

The Switch step-in interface has the best boot sole to binding interface (no movement), which I really liked. However, it didn't give me enough ankle support. I liked X type (highback) better then N type (no highback). N type boot is stiffer, though, I still should try N boot in X binding.

I'll play with the Flows a bit this year, if I get to ride softies at all. Maybe not, as they now let me teach on hard boots ;)

[bobdea]

OK...Softboot Carving was the way to Surf the hill 24 years ago at Buttermilk, the first area here to open the door.
Bob Klein of Burton fame was the sole instructor and he left mid Jan. as no one was interested then.
I had my Elite 150 at 45 Deg. front and maybe 25 Deg. back (as far forward as it would go) stance was 20" I also had
Sorels and makeshift booster straps on the top as was needed to make Carves on frontside turns the way those added straps allowed.
I did not see or know any snowboarders and was educating myself as to what worked and what did not. I took the fins off the Elite
within the first two days. I have tried HB's, K2 Clickers, Switch, and Flows and concluded that for Buttermilks terrain nothing has
been as comfortable or as supportive for my particular style as the 3 strap or Torque style binding. HB's at Buttermilk unless you are
on Racers edge or Ptarmigan are just not required for Carving. I offered the Pic of the converted Mission binding only for those
who appreciate them as I do, certainly not to convert anyone here but rather to let those know who already used and liked them
to see that they can make their own if they wished.
These Mission converted bindings are the best 3 straps I have used...They are not sqeaky or scary
My set up of 45 Deg. F and B and a 19" stance has remained constant, after 24 years I KNOW WHAT I LIKE.
I am an Outcast as I think HB'S are to Hard and SB's are to Soft, so I have chosen to stay on this interface and Surf this Mountain
as I have for the last 24 years. I came here because this site is made up of people who love to Carve...:1luvu:

with a locked out binding you're riding a harder interface than heads or raichles. with a BTS on a set of heads or af 700s I have a bigger range of motion toe to heel than I do on 2 straps never mind 3.
the whole paragraph above just states that you're resistant to try new things because of what you used to like. in 92 three straps were big they're not now because they serve no purpose that's not done much better by other things mainly decent 2 strap bindings and modern boots or on the other end hardboots.

[leeho730]

Hi teach,

I would probably go for CAD. It's essentially same as SPI with better footbeds (I suppose you can give your boots some canting and toe lift, but I'm not entirely sure how this works) and straps. SPI is known for its durability but CAD's essentially using the same components on key areas (i.e. body) so should be at least as durable.

Some has mentioned CATEK Freeride 2. It is an awesome binding for carving, but is pricey, heavy, and is quite difficult to rotate the highback (or is it just me?).


My recommendation is to try CAD with maximum highback rotation and with forward, angled stance. Reduce the stance width, increase the binding angles to eliminate boot overhang, and observe your backside (heel side) carve. See if you feel comfy during the heel side carve...

Hope this helps :)

[martyagt4]

In regard to the Flows. I did find, obviously, that my Flow boots fit in them perfectly. The problem was they were crap. Too soft for decent forward lean. I was crushing them.

The 32 Forecast I ride now fit damn near perfect in them. I was lucky, although it took a day of getting the strap height just right.

I think the boot is the biggest difference, hardware-wise.

Honestly though, you ask 30 people their opinions, I suspect you'll get 30 different answers.

[Dave ESPI]

I tried something "new" today and hated it.

We all have our own likes and dislikes and when we try to "get with the times" we realise there is also technology that inders our particular ride style.

For giggles I pulled out my 3 strap Burton Custom freeride bindings, and airwalk Advantage boots. I rode 3 trail runs, and then went in for lunch.

I swapped out for a brand new pair of Salomon Malamutes and K2 FOrmula bindings on the same board.

The results?

I rode awesome and had great form in the "old gear", and even got a compliment for such from another snowboarder.

I ride the "new gear" and felt extremely rigid and awkward and was unable to do half as much as I could with identical setup in "old technology" without concertedly more effort and discomfort.

{mocking voice} BOBDEA: "thats because you suck......" (or some lame arm-chair snowsurfer retort that Im sure he will have)

Why don't we all just free ourselves from HIGHBACKS alltogether while we are at it? Hell, just dump the bindings and go NOBOARDING :)

:lurk:

Softbootsailer, Ignore the morons and those who hate us who can just go out and ride and tear it up in whatever we are comfortable on.... style is still style, and if it looks good, and you do it well, and it works, then there is noone who can say a word about its lack of viability as "technique".

[Dr D]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

easy Dave you'll have him frothing at the mouth and stuttering soon if you aren't careful. did you get the cateks from me? looks familiar

[teach]

to everyone for input. The general positive take encouraged me to set up the CADs. I thought some photos might be of interest to anyone who hasn't seen a pair up close. The binding has a foot platform which sits on the board (only contact is by four adjustable feet). It hooks to the chassis at the front and back; the fore-aft position is adjustable. The footbed itself is not adjustable; my XL bindings have a footbed about the size of my Burton C60s with toe ramp adjusted all the way out. In other words, maybe a little small for boot size 30 but OK. Photos:
19800
Binding with footbed. Below: bottom view of footbed.
19802
The red pieces in the middle of the front and back accept tabs in the chassis. One screw holds it together.
The footbed sits above the board surface:
19801
You adjust the height at each corner with the small screws (see first photo). This lets you lift, tilt, cant etc.

I didn't wind up setting up a board with these. I wonder about durability of the footbed, given that it's only supported at the corners. Can anyone >180 lbs say vouch for these?

The highback doesn't rotate as much as my C60s; in fact it maxes out around 10 degrees.

[Softcarver]

I didn't wind up setting up a board with these. I wonder about durability of the footbed, given that it's only supported at the corners. Can anyone >180 lbs say vouch for these?

As I stated earlier I weigh in at around 215 and have never had an issue with the bindings other than bending the front heelcup which was warranteed. I do ride very aggressive and was on the bindings for two full seasons before the failure. I have not had a problem since the new heelcup arrived. I now use the CAD's for my POW binding and my Catek's for groomed carving.

[teach]

Thanks, that helps. I will give these a try next season. There are two annoying things, though: 1) the center disks are slotted so as to work with Burton as well as 4 hole. Except the slots are just a bit too far apart -- like 40.5 mm or so. I'll drill them out but what's the point of slots then? Pretty stupid patent here, or am I missing something? 2) can't rotate highbacks much. I ride narrow boards for my size and need near 45 degree angles on most of them.

[Softcarver]

1) the center disks are slotted so as to work with Burton as well as 4 hole. Except the slots are just a bit too far apart -- like 40.5 mm or so. I'll drill them out but what's the point of slots then? Pretty stupid patent here, or am I missing something? 2) can't rotate highbacks much. I ride narrow boards for my size and need near 45 degree angles on most of them.

For some reason all my ride bindings are the same. The slots are a bit too wide but if you are careful you can get them caught without drilling and use the slot to adjust. Just leave the screws very loose until you get all four caught.
As far as the high back it is what it is. I ride with 45-50 up front and 5 less in the back and I have not found it to be that much of an issue. I haven't found many bindings out there that rotate that much anyway.