Headed to the dark side

[Bobby Buggs]

So after 10 plus seasons in Hard boots Im thinking its time to see what I can do on Softboots.
I have a 167 Nidecker Proto, Flow M11 bindings and Rossi Jeremy Jones Boa lace boots.
No Im not giving up my Coiler, so its not for sale:nono:

What can you tell me that I need to know

[Rob Stevens]

Don't fear the duck.

[bobdea]

yup

but why the hell are you going to ride a proto with softboots?

it's narrower than a swoard 175
the proto is like 22.5 wide or something like that.

if you wear a womens size 4 you may be able to make the board work with normal softboot angles.



I wear a size 11 mens and for me I prefer boards that are 26.5 to 27.5 any more or less and life really sucks.

what size is your foot?

[Rob Stevens]

W I D E.

[Mike T]

Definitely try a duck and a "slightly forward" stance in addition to alpine angles. Softies just aren't designed for high angles IMHO. I am using 24/12 or so and it works quite well for me. I don't like duck myself, but don't knock it until you've tried it.

[Dave ESPI]

LOL.... Bobby pick the day and time... I'd LOVE to watch this :biggthump

ps: good luck riding softies on the proto/ try 38 28 for stance. (alpine) anyting higher and you will not be comfortable.

[bobdea]

was thinking it might be worth it to scoop a $50 craigslist special...
http://westernmass.craigslist.org/spo/1063038036.html
http://worcester.craigslist.org/spo/1069470655.html

be closer to getting a taste of what softboots are about than softbooting on a proto.

[Dave Winters]

Buggs- You'll have a lot of fun, bro- Any given year I'm in my softies 20-30 days out of 70 or so. Mainly because we have so many good powder days here. (Remember?)

[GeoffV]

So after 10 plus seasons in Hard boots Im thinking its time to see what I can do on Softboots.
I have a 167 Nidecker Proto, Flow M11 bindings and Rossi Jeremy Jones Boa lace boots.
No Im not giving up my Coiler, so its not for sale:nono:

What can you tell me that I need to know

That's it Bugs, if you read the fine print on your user account registration you must be a Hardbooter in order to stay an active member. At any point in time you can be banned if you step on softboots and ride in a duck stance:lol:

Jack/Fin I think an bann is in order here:eplus2:

[Bobby Buggs]

What did someone write, big pants,duck stance, No chance:o
So skip the Proto???
I have a Rossi Spike 160 from about 8 years ago

[Bobby Buggs]

LOL.... Bobby pick the day and time... I'd LOVE to watch this :biggthump


Why cause you know Im gonna Nail it:biggthump

[Bobby Buggs]

Buggs- You'll have a lot of fun, bro- Any given year I'm in my softies 20-30 days out of 70 or so. Mainly because we have so many good powder days here. (Remember?)

I do Dave, that is a great place you have, was it Christmas tree bowl??

[BlueB]

What did someone write, big pants,duck stance, No chance:o
As seen in my sig!


So skip the Proto???
I'll trade you a new Prior AMF 159 for that Proto. It should ride circles around that Rossi.
I have longer FR boards too, if you wish.

[Bobby Buggs]

Prior AMF???

[BlueB]

Yup, a real softboot board. Let's take it to email if interested.

[bobdea]

if you're interested in rocking softies I'd snap up that offer like a pack of frat boys on a drunkened high school girl...

the AMF is supposed to be a great board.

[scrapster]

Bobby, I tried riding softies on my older, narrower Proto last year. Well, it worked...kind of. I mean, I could get down the hill and turn the board without killing myself. (This was at B-East :) ) But it wasn't an optimal setup for anything. Also tried softies on a wider F2 Speedcross. I wasn't too impressed with that either.

Go for a regular-width freeride or BX board and some stiffer bindings. Never liked Flows. Salmon (SPX) and Nidecker make widley available, stiff highbacks. Cateks are supposedly awesome too. BlueB's AMF would be a good board. Steepwaters are also pretty neat--11.25 scr's on their 164 Steeps and Plows. Very unusual for a freeride board.

BTW, why the change? Did you just get the itch? Or are you trying to unleash some new type of EVIL on poor, little Blandford? :eplus2:

[scrapster]

PS- I have a pair of Nidecker Pro 800 bindings that I'd be willing to shoot your way for $20 if you find you don't like your Flows. They're one step below Nidecker's top-of-the-line 900 Carbon series. One ratchet has a bum spring, but other than that, they're in good shape. Would work great on the AMF.

They're just collecting dust in my basement right now...and will be for the foreseeable future. No rush. Let me know whenever. I'm right up the road from you.

[Bobby Buggs]

Email sent

[Bobby Buggs]

BTW, why the change? Did you just get the itch? Or are you trying to unleash some new type of EVIL on poor, little Blandford? :eplus2:
Im not done with Alpine by any means. I just want to be more versatile, and to see what it will take to ride a soft boot to the point where I feel good about it. This weekend at Mt Snow would have been the prefect time to give it a go. Besides if Im riding with my soft boot son the Coiler is way to fast for him. No more Blanford:barf: I just can take it any more.

[powdahbonz]

I hadn't been on softies for about 10 yrs and last set-up I rode was a lousy step-in, not Shimano, I think Rossi, so weak and so much play....I was dying for the days of my old Burton 3 strap hi-backs. But borrowed a friends K2 Ginsu 162, got some Burton Customs cheap w/ the cap straps and after about 3 runs, I was playing, free-riding and carving it up. I forgot how much fun you could have. I appreciated the ability to carve on a soft-board. Variety-It wouldn't be my all the time thing-that's why I ski so I can go everywhere, trees, glades, chutes. I do not enjoy that pucker feeling on an alpine board when you realize you've taken on more than will be fun and amusing. I enjoy, and appreciate the ability to switch instruments for the conditions-that's what softies represent to me. Kinda like reaching into the bag for a hybrid/utility club instead of a 3 iron or 5wood. Use what works

[scrapster]

Ha! I'm going the other way and finally securing a dedicated, narrower carving board for next year.

FYI, you can also ride softer plates on some of these freeride boards. I rode Mt Snow the past few weeks with plates on both my Steepwater and my Dupraz. 45/37 angles. Very fun :biggthump in the slush. Priors are tough. They could handle it.

[DjulezD]

+1 on the duck stance - best learning curve for the transition from hard to soft boots.

I finally came back from the "dark side" this season after about ten years on softies (freeride, powder). For me, the most difficult part in switching from one equipment to another was to adjust technique to each and refrain from using HB technique on the soft setup and vice-versa. All this became blurred because I went back to HB to learn EC technique, which involved focusing on rotation, lowering angles, etc, which was not my riding technique back in the days when I rode HB (I think it was just when riders started to not tuck their rear knee in the front and use outward canting).

So I figure that riding a duck stance will probably be a radical shift, but helpful because such a pitch will definitely prevent you from trying to ride with the wrong technique.

Also, as it has been said before on the forum, switching from on setup to another will definitely improve your abilities as a rider, so, in this sense, "welcome to the Dark Side".

Just in case, I also have freeride boards wider than your proto for sale here (http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=25255). (I may be interested in a trade also).

[bobdea]

I go back and forth pretty often when I'm working on hill.

feels weird for about 30 seconds

[Bobby Buggs]

Why are people so interested in the Proto

[bobdea]

Why are people so interested in the Proto

maybe they're bi/curious as well?

[Ernie00]

and all this time I tought that we were the Dark side !

what a shock !

[Steve Prokopiw]

since 03/04 in fact.But,I was at ease riding switch with softies at forward angles of 18 in back and 27 up front on regular freeride boards..
Ironically,until I got the 22.5 wide G Force 171 my all mountain choice was a 167x25.0 wide Rossi Jeremy Jones(06),which I have only ridden in hardboots.

The GForce seems like a board that would be good for someone with size 8's like me to use as a softboot carver some with some stiff softies .I would run similar angles on it.The Rossi, of course is wide enough to do whatever.

I'm with those who think that it's good to ride different setups but I don't believe a person is not a real softbooter if they don't run duck.The things that duck measurably improved for me were not worth the trade offs in performance for other aspects of my all mountain riding.

[davekempmeister]

Rode my Tanker (187) with softboots and Flow bindings at least 12 days or so this season and it was great. Could rail it, ride it really surfy, whatever. Switched back and forth from this set up to hardboots on raceboards througout the day to mix it up. Always a forward stance for me. Settled in around 24f/15r +/-. Did all this at Killington just last Tues/Wed. Hiked to the summit of Pico to end my season. Got tossed over the nose on my last run. Now it's over. Damn.

[Bubba]

BB,

Don't think of it as going over to the darkside. I have coached freestyle for years and ride 20F & -17B on my soft setup. Makes for some fun times especially with my kids. IT IS POSSIBLE TO CARVE DUCK. I have done it for years. What makes it more fun is if you can ride regular and and do a switch 180 and keep the carve. Looks good from the lift and even more fun to ride. Am sure I am about to get flamed but who cares. My goal next year is a fakie carve on my raceboard.

How can I get some more Evil Sports stickers?

[Jack Michaud]

I tried duck once and wound up with a stiff neck from how much I had to turn my head!

Brought my old soft gear to the free room at the town dump last fall. Schtubby does it all.

[LeeW]

I do 'em all but telemark.

And yes I do ride duckies when I go softies.

[Hugh]

Bobby Buggs goes Bugs Bunny?

Enjoy the dark side my friend...

My problem with riding a soft setup after hardbooting for so many years is that all I want to do is CARVE! Carving a toe side in soft boots feels like surfing a huge wave, but I can't carve a heal side without skidding and that sucks because my hardboot heal side is locked on. Bye bye heal side...

Tricks are for kids: keep it close to the ground and you won't need time to heal.

Duck stance is for people without direction, if you keep the angles low you can still go both ways when you want to, but still ride your forward preference.

Soft boots are way comfy :cool:,

Hugh

(this could have been a good joke if you waited a couple of more days :lurk:)

[Jack Michaud]

Soft boots are way comfy :cool:,



For walking yes. Maybe Flows are better in this regard, but I find strap bindings have to be tightened to the point of crushing the foot in order to perform.

[davekempmeister]

Mr. Michaud makes an important point when alluding to the idea that straps are "crushing" when one tries to incorporate some footwork while riding softies. For this very reason I was drawn to Flows and, for the most part, Flow's do relieve the pressure points associated with what he's referring to. I where a size 15 (31.5) and maybe the length of my foot further predisposes me to this problem. Morton's Neuroma resulted in my left foot requiring surgery a couple of years ago. Love the Flows - cheap at REI online sometimes. November, when the new gear is in and they liquidate the old is a good time to look.

[Mike T]

Ah yes, the bad old days, various foot parts being crushed by straps! Modern ergonomic softie bindings make that a thing of the past. I mentioned the 07/08 Burton Missions before.... the ankle strap is very nicely shaped, and the cap straps are comfy as well but barely necessary.

I don't have any problems carving on heelside, in fact it's probably my stronger turn in softies as well as plates now, although it being my stronger softie turn is a recent development, and possibly aided by a mid-season injury...

[scrapster]

In anything but powder, my feet still hurt in softies, even with the newest in boots and bindings. Maybe custom footbeds would have helped, maybe not. Now I just let my hardboot-clad calves and shins do the work instead of holding my feet in a death grip trying to keep an edge.

[dingbat]

Once the Salomon Malamute breaks down in 2 weeks, the 3rd. strap had to
come back out to keep my ankle from screaming...

I'm surprised to hear you say this. At 210lbs, I'm riding 6 or 7 year old Salomon Synapses in the cheapest Salomon bindings from that year, and have no discomfort, nor do I feel a lack of support while riding. (The lift is another story entirely)

Not doubting you, just surprised.

[eajracing]

i've been riding a soft boot set up on a 172 prior mfr for about 4 years now and love it for soft days. i'll run a 15-17 up front, a little duck if its corn snow or for running big mountain/tree lines where i cant carve all the way down and live; or, a 5-13 on groom, more angle for better quality groom. I can still carve, but dont expect to lay it out.

i remember the days of cranking straps so tight my feet went numb, but with newer boots and new bindings ('07 C02's) i havent had the problem since

had a deadly neon corn snow day full of two-handed nose grabs on saturday that the softies particularly lent themselves to.

[Bobby Buggs]

Crushing my feet with the straps makes me remember the 94-96 seasons:nono:
Thats why I got a set of Flows, I hope they work they way I think they will.

[Bobby Buggs]

Well Im not sure Im looking to Carve on softboots, I already know how to carve on a hard boot... if thats what you want to call my riding style:)
Im really looking for a more relaxed style and fun in soft snow or spring days. I may not ride the soft boots more than a couple times during the season but would really opt for them in the spring.
Not sure I can do the Duck thing but its worth a try.

[Bobby Buggs]

What about stance width, I usually ride 19-19.25 how does that relate to the dark side? Headed to MT Snow Sunday to give it a try

[skategoat]

In Tahoe I rode with a guy who was in softies but could carve like no tomorrow. He was riding a Nidecker Ultralight and his bindings were K2 Cinch. The bindings are kinda like Flows where you step into the back and pull up the highbacks. If I were going softies again, I'd get these.

[DjulezD]

You can easily adopt a wider stance on a softboot setup. One or two inches more than on your HB setup I would say.

[Gunnar]

Don't fear the duck.

And don't think heel and toe lift are only for hard-booters!

I ride 43/3, (So I'm an natural duck) and have a Burton uni-cant set to about 4degrees heel-lift, and 3degrees canting. It makes the pressure on the highbacks, and boot tongues even. And lets the rear leg suck up bumps better, without getting fatigued.
Take a look at all the directional soft-booters, rideing around with huge gaps between rear boot and highback on both toe and heel edge...:smashfrea
If i did not have the uni-cant, I would be on a pair of Catek softies (http://catek.com/catekdirect/product.php?productid=143&cat=0&page=1&featured) .
And I will certanly get a pair anyway, if/when Caron manage to merge the Fastec (http://catek.com/SP-fastec-binding.htm) mechanism into them!

[Bobby Buggs]

Well the weather is not looking good for tomorrow:mad:
Fastec is just a Flow with 2 straps

[Gunnar]

My Flow's sucks, because they lack buckles and straps. ;)

[Bobby Buggs]

Im clueless:freak3:, you would know better

[Gunnar]

Many riders obviously like Flow! But I like to strap down super tight, so i need bindings that compress more over the heelgrip..
I hope I get to try out Chinc and Fastec before the snow melts, to see if they can do it.

[skatha]

Ummmm....the "darkside" is on skis, now



But, as a former duck stance afficionado, I can tell you it was much easier on my bum right knee to ride that way!
I agree on the board width, you'll need a wider board to ride the shallower angles of softies.
You'll quickly remember the pain of riding in softboots, tho...although spring crud is ideal for softbooting. Like the board torquing on your lead foot up the lift, or heel lift, or how your toes go numb when you crank your toe straps down....
Good luck with the Flows! I haven't seen them much recently.....

[BlueB]

Hey Bobby, how did the softboot trial go?
Are we going to do the trade deal?

[Dr D]

been busy and missed this one!

Get catek and **** the duck:eplus2:

[powdahbonz]

I may be a minority voice but started skiing at 4, snowboarding at 15 and haven't given either up and won't. I'm glad that I got back on softies this year since that's where it started b/c there's a time and a place for everything. It's invaluable to be out on the mountain and realize that there is terrain that is simply more enjoyable on a different tool. Not to mention, the benefit to muscle by skiing and riding in the same day. I feel better when I split my time. Best day this year was doing all 3 in the same day(If only I were younger and had the time to tele and develop there)I could go for the four fecta.
Ummmm....the "darkside" is on skis, now



But, as a former duck stance afficionado, I can tell you it was much easier on my bum right knee to ride that way!
I agree on the board width, you'll need a wider board to ride the shallower angles of softies.
You'll quickly remember the pain of riding in softboots, tho...although spring crud is ideal for softbooting. Like the board torquing on your lead foot up the lift, or heel lift, or how your toes go numb when you crank your toe straps down....
Good luck with the Flows! I haven't seen them much recently.....