View Full Version : Tuning - i think im doing things wrong
November 19th, 2003, 03:30 PM
So I'm trying to do most of my own tuning myself from now on. But I'm not entirely sure I'm doing things right so I have a few questions.
I applied a coat of summer wax and I think I did that fine, but when I scraped just recently I think I used too much pressure. I notice some rough areas where the corner of the scraper roughed the surface up. How much pressure do I usually need to apply? How much wax should I be removing overall?
After scraping, I brushed the surface pretty well with a swix combo brush, then gave it a good buffing with some scotchbrite. This took care of some of the rough spots, but some still remained. Did I scrape too hard in the first place? How do I fix this problem now, short of a full base grind?
I have the multi edge tuner from tognar, and I was using that set to 1 deg base and 1 deg side. I'm not sure how much pressure i should be using when filing, and the tuner leaves some scratch marks on the base where the flat portion of the tool runs along the base. Also, when working on the base edge, it removes base ptex as well. This portion is very rough. How do I tune up this portion of the base?
Deburring and polishing:
I have a set of 3 diamond stones. When I get a gash in my edges, do I use these diamond stones flush to the base and side edge to wear down the gash or at an angle to the edge? What about polishing the edges with a ceramic stone? Do I need to use a file guide with any of these to keep them at the right angle all of the time?
What do you guys do about scratches that are too small to repair with a ptex candle? I've gotten a number of small scratches on my bases that wax fills temporarily, but the scratches are pretty apparent after a few runs. What can I do short of a base grind?
Sorry I have so many question, but this whole tuning this is totally new to me. Thanks in advance!!
November 19th, 2003, 03:45 PM
For your file problems, don't use the jig on the base edge, wrap a layer of tape on your file to raise it 1 degree and run that down your board cleaning it often to remove burs that get ground into the base and be sure to only go from tip to tail, not the other way. Also, it doesnt take much pressure to touch them up, too much and you will ruin your edges.
For your wax problem, are you pushing the scraper or are you draging it? If you are pushing it, it will hop and make grooves in your base. Keep your scraper flat by running it on a file along its length to keep your scraper true, if there is a void when you place your scraper on a straight edge, it needs to be reshaped.
November 20th, 2003, 08:13 PM
First of all, I recommend that you read a tune up book or look for complete online tuning articles. You will get much more info than what you will get through these posts. Read the tips in Tognar's catalogue also.
It sounds like you scraped with too much pressure on the scraper edge. I like to round the edges of my scraper with sandpaper so this can not happen. Scrape off most of the wax. Too much wax will slow you down. If the scratches are not deep, they will not slow you down. They just look ugly. A base grind is the only remedy but unnecessary if your base is flat (check with a straight edge). A base grind will also decrease the life of your board.
File lightly (just enough to reestablish a flat edge with the correct bevel). You do not want to take too much material away from the edges. If you do, the life of your board is shortened.
I also use the multi edger, but mostly use it with stones to polish the edges rather than wear them down by filing. Keep the tool flat against the base so the bevel will be consistent.
Debur your edges with a gummy stone to remove the burr's hardened metal that was formed when you struck that rock. This hardened metal leaves inconsistent results and is hard on tools. Then use the diamond stones with a bevel guide (the same bevel you are using on your edges). I use the smaller 2 1/2" stones so they can fit in my edge file tool. These stones can be used with more pressure because you are removing material slower. I diamond stone with water to keep the stone clean. After, I dry the edges so they dont rust.
Hope that helps,
November 21st, 2003, 10:55 AM
Has anyone ever tried one of these?:
November 21st, 2003, 11:46 AM
one wrong move with that thing and you could be screwed. I'll stick with the old file and stone.
November 22nd, 2003, 04:56 AM
Forget the tape wrapped around your file, very innaccurate. If tape was accurate SVSC would not produce $75Plus base bevelers. I typed in a lengthy tuning article on the old bomber site, maybe it can be searched for. For your diamond stone work, (not diamond file)the blue and red stones can be used by hand with no guides as they will not change the edge bevel. Use bevel guides when using the black diamond stones.
November 23rd, 2003, 07:23 PM
I bookmarked that one a long time ago: <http://www.bomberonline.com/Forums/Index.cfm?CFApp=2&Message_ID=8292>
November 24th, 2003, 07:18 AM
I would check with your local ski shops to see if they put on tuning clinics. In Calgary the Toko Rep puts on tuning clinics through Ski Cellar. They do ski and snowboard specific sessions. As a bonus at the end of the clinic ypu can buy any Toko tuning products for 20% off.
November 29th, 2003, 08:18 AM
I think its great that more skiers/riders are learning about tuning. For the last 2 years we researched how many actually use properly tuned equipment, and it's less than 5%! Especially where tuning is not rocket science once you know how (and a simple tune goes a long ways towards helping you ski & ride). Not everyone is a world cup racer, yet many recreational skiers get spooked when they see elaborate procedure manuals. In my opinion one of the best is written by Toko (there's a link off our web site www.edgetune.com). The one area I believe needs more attention is finding out exactly what bevel angle is right for your boards and your ability...manufacturers reps are the most reliable, ski shops are good, but some web sites are just plain wrong (especially ones that say "all Volants are X/Y degree base/side bevel angle" because they vary by model.
Weasel's comment about our brand new EdgeTune product is very understandable, because it is quite unique and looks as though you could grind the daylights out of your precious little edges in 2 seconds. Fortunately, it is not as scary as it looks...in fact, the ceramic stone is a very fine grit and the guide bracket prevents you from removing too much material...we've sharpened many skis & boards with great results and minimal edge wear. I'm not trying to sell our product, but I do want forums like this to represent facts, not unknown fears. Most importantly, whether you file or grind, is to stay tuned!
November 29th, 2003, 11:39 AM
Yes, the EdgeTune will fit your Craftsman (made by Dremel). The key is to have a screw-on end plastic nut, which mounts the rotary tool. As a former professional skier, my hands have also gotten tired (and now that I'm 51, it really motivated me to get something easier, yet safe and accurate).
December 31st, 2003, 08:17 AM
Tried using one today on a junk pair of skis. Did not like it. Stick with SVST. Rubber bands on the guide? A joke. They compress and grip rather than slide. Did not like the tool.
December 31st, 2003, 02:55 PM
For myself- lazy as I am but I like sharp edges- I only tune from the side - When I get a new board I check the bottom and if it's reasonably flat I let it be- what I don't want is a bottom that's edge high - if it's flat I will give it the tiniest bit of edge relief -no real bevel on the bottom- from then on I only tune from the side - on my proton GS i go for 89 degrees on the side - I could go more for more bite but then the tune doesn't last as long - everything's a compromise. I then ride the board and gently detune the ends if necessary. I ride on eastern machine made snow and this is what has worked for me over time. Since I don't race I wax with parafin- cheap and good enough for me. Now where do I get cartilage refills?
January 1st, 2004, 08:25 AM
The EdgeTune you tested was one of the origional 10 pre-production samples shipped last July (obviously you're from SVST). The rubber bands have been replaced with "glide strips" for production, along with several other changes (check out www.edgetune.com). Do you need an updated bracket? I'll happily send you one so that the product doesn't get an unfounded bad reputation. See you in Vegas.
January 1st, 2004, 12:40 PM
Dave, send the stuff to the Startingate. I do not work for SVST but have used them for years. We are still one of the handfull of shops that still do edge work with files and stones. Thanks..
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