snowboarders vs skiers lets get ready to rumble

[surlyone]

Here are some things to debate:<p>
A skier is in a better body position in relation to the fall line (hips shoulders facing down hill) allowing for more efficient movements.<p>
Snowboarders have to make larger movements to achieve the same performance a skier can make with more refined movements.<p>
A skier can make the same size and shape turn as a snowboarder with more options regarding speed control = a skier can go slower or faster than the snowboarder with the same turn shape and size.<p>
these differences are hightened and accentuated in the moguls = snowboarders have a harder time riding moguls than skiers. <p>
there are lines more favorable to skiers...and more of them to carve them out leaving boarders to adapt to bumps more favorable to skiers.<p><p>
what does everyone think? let the debate begin. <p><p>

I imagine some of this isn't true for you hard booters.....but what about us riders with low angles and soft boots?

[D-Sub]

a)we dont go straight down the hill on a board. some of us go back up sometimes!

b)we dont ride bumps really, and me personally I couldnt care less if Im good in them or not.

I dunno...I can tell youre not trying to stir **** up but my opinion is:

who cares! If skis work better for you, ride two of em! If a snowboard with hardboots gets your dick/nipples hard? more power! Short board, soft setup, duck stance? ROCK ON!

at least its been a while since Ive been called a "fckin snowboarder" as if it were an insult

[Neuffy]

1. A skier is in a better body position in relation to the fall line (hips shoulders facing down hill) allowing for more efficient movements.

hm...more efficient...debatable. But it's true that if you have low angles, looking over the front shoulder is difficult...even with higher angles, it's still harder than with skis: easier to get hit from behind.

2. Snowboarders have to make larger movements to achieve the same performance a skier can make with more refined movements.

No.

3. A skier can make the same size and shape turn as a snowboarder with more options regarding speed control = a skier can go slower or faster than the snowboarder with the same turn shape and size.

As far as I can tell, this is slightly true, due to a skier's ability to have their skis at different angles. However, a boarder can also modify their speed while still following the same turn shape and size. Just harder.

4. these differences are hightened and accentuated in the moguls = snowboarders have a harder time riding moguls than skiers.

Actually, I'm pretty sure moguls are harder for boarders because we can't separate our feet and ride one up, one down...there's a lot of inherent stability in two skis far apart...perpendicular balance is more of an issue boarding.

5. there are lines more favorable to skiers...and more of them to carve them out leaving boarders to adapt to bumps more favorable to skiers.

Hell no...boarders do more damage, heh. Except on race courses, boarders can (at least, good boarders) modify pretty much anything a skier can do to snow. Boards are just better at imparting force.

6. what does everyone think? let the debate begin.
Hm...can't figure out how to answer this one now.

Edit: Actually, last season I got sworn at a fair bit...a few times for pushing people away, and off my board in lift lines, a few times for carving _through_ someone's kicker (I wanted to do a carved jump off of it...they should have made it stronger...), and a few times for going back and forth on the hill, rather than straight down it.

[Tommy D]

Originally posted by D-Sub

who cares! If skis work better for you, ride two of em! If a snowboard with hardboots gets your dick/nipples hard? more power!


FWIW: Skis and snowboards with hardboods get me hard all over; goosepimply too. :D

I haven't put much thought into efficiency of motion/form, though it is an interesting (to me) argument. I think in certain situations, being on two edges is more beneficial/efficient/safer than one.

But given current levels of skiing and snowboarding technology, skiing and snowboarding forms are very similar: I have seen skiers carving the fall line and snowboarders (alpine) carving the fall line, and until I see their feet or hands, I cannot tell if one is skiing or riding.

For me it boils down to fun factor. As I said, both get me goosepimply. Both offer different sensations, but the exhileration is just as satisfying either way.

Time to carve my longboard! Ooh, I'm all goosepimply just thinking about it! ;)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by surlyone
Here are some things to debate:<p>
A skier is in a better body position in relation to the fall line (hips shoulders facing down hill) allowing for more efficient movements.
I'd agree with that.

Snowboarders have to make larger movements to achieve the same performance a skier can make with more refined movements.
For certain things. For others, the snowboarder is in a position to do some things skiers can't do.

A skier can make the same size and shape turn as a snowboarder with more options regarding speed control = a skier can go slower or faster than the snowboarder with the same turn shape and size.
Disagree.

these differences are hightened and accentuated in the moguls = snowboarders have a harder time riding moguls than skiers.
Your first two points apply here - the square shoulders and the ability to simply step from one edge to another makes skis the better tool whenever short, fast edge sets are required.

But I still love to ride the bumps, even though I am in the clear minority of riders.

[skeez rule]

we have electronic bindings you dont so skis must be better

most skis have titanium so they have to be better

my ski boots have carbon fibre, snowboard hardboots dont so skiboots are better

[C5 Golfer]

Skiers are like Fords and Snowboarder are like Chevys .. very similar argument don't you agree? So with that said since Chevys are better than Fords then Snowboarders are better than Skiers.. it is that easy.:D

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by C5 Golfer
Skiers are like Fords and Snowboarder are like Chevys

He's right..that about sums it up. Ford's got the mustang...its respectable thats for sure. But I tell ya one thing...its no 'vette.


PS: I've said it before and I'll say it again...

I can't help but think about the words of wisdom I once read from the sticker affixed to the mini deck of the youngest alpine board rider I've ever seen.
And the sticker read:

"Skiing is only for little fat kids.";)

[surlyone]

facing down the fall line allows for symmetrical movements. maybe that describes the difference better than more efficient movements. however, does symmetry equal effeciency?<p>
travelling up hill??? do you mean on the lift???
<p>drum roll please.....isn't hardbooting the inbred bastard child of skiing and snowboarding?
<i>applause from the two softbooters in here</i>

[bobdea]

this is the deal with going uphill we can carve complete circles in the snow I have seen one skier do it after alot of work on it damn good skier too

he was inspired by watching me and a another guy carved a circle around the group of kids he was doing a race camp with


he said its real weird to do on skis because once your goin uphill at the top of the turn it gets real weird
he said the only way to get it to work for him was to presure the front of the ski realy hard and put ALL the presure on the outside ski

[surlyone]

circles....

[bobdea]

I dont mean the 'stang GT either I mean the GT
0 to 60 in 3.3

[Ghostrider]

Ok, I'll toss in a better reply than calling skiiers ford mustangs:eek:

Here is what I think about the whole thing. The equipment you ride is designed to perform a specific task. However, for the general population, they assume that a certain tool is necessary to perform a specific task when in reality most of it comes down to the operator of the tool.
(Random non-related analogy: Just because I buy a lathe doesnt mean I could make a louisville slugger at first...in fact i'd probably lose a few fingers. But with training, I could make a bat that sammy sosa could cork and slug away with...that was a burn to any cubbies fans out there. btw.)

From the first official coaching I had in snowboarding I was taught the phrase "Operator Error." Blaming a fault, or lack of strength, in an area on your equipment is the easy way out.

Can a hardboot out-turn a softboot? Probably. If the hardbooter practiced turning for a while until they knew how to truly work the physics of the board, could they keep up with a hardboot? Absolutely.

In a picture of a snowboarder and a skiier, from the waist up, a skiier remains symmetric. Does a snowboarder? Not totally, but can they? Well the body rotates at the waist so the upper body should be able to move independantly of the lower.

Can a hardboot go to the terrain park and pull a backflip like a skiier and a softbooter? Not on the first try. If they try it over and over, absolutely. (See W.M. - "Snowriders II").

So I'll step off my soapbox now, but bottom line is that it all comes down to who is driving the equipment and the training and experience they have.

[surlyone]

I agree. Anything is possible on all equipment and to blame your equipment as the cause of inability is definitely a cop out. what about when someone elses equipment causes the rider error, or contributes to the difficulty of doing something with ease.

Imagine this: two trails of identical pitch, width, length, fall lines, etc. One trail is closed for skiers and only rideable by snowboarders. The other is the opposite, and only available to skiers. The skiers and riders who ride the trails are each to the same ability level regardless of discipline. The trail is not groomed all winter and moguls form.

Now switch trails and sliders. What happens? How is the shape of the moguls different between each trail and how does the different shape and skier line/snowboard line through the moguls effect the riders and skiers now that they have switched trails? Who gets the doo doo brown end of the stick in this deal?

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by bobdea
I dont mean the 'stang GT either I mean the GT
0 to 60 in 3.3

3.3 maybe after some work..here is what the factorys are reporting...

Z06
0-60 3.9
Braking 125 ft
top sp 171 mph
skidpad 1g
drag .31

gt
0-60 3.8
Braking 117 ft
top sp 190 mph
skidpad 1g
drag .43

Performance is pretty close when you consider that you could buy three Z06's before you pay off 1 GT..

My respect still goes to the corvette.
The GT is too much like a Ferrari...both are fun, but better for just picking up chicks.

[Baka Dasai]

Surlyone, you're in a forum that's mostly dedicated to carving, so talking about moguls doesn't really apply. If, in your hypothetical, all the skiers and snowboarders were carvers, then there wouldn't be much, if any, difference in the moguls that would form. In fact, I'm not sure that <b>any</b> moguls would form.

[surlyone]

that is a cop out. I have seen a few booters in the bumps and I've seen em hit rails. They get my respect. Just because <i>you</i> limit yourself doesn't have any impact on the merit of this question does it? we all slide. and if you truly lay ruts in the snow where does the snow that was removed to make the rut go? it has to pile up right?

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by surlyone
what about when someone elses equipment causes the rider error, or contributes to the difficulty of doing something with ease.



This is the word for the next lesson..."Adaptability."

A good rider should also be in control in all conditions. It took me a while to realize this also. When I first was riding, I avoided hills with bumps because "I'm a hardbooter..we ride groomed stuff." Then this last season, I began to realize that a bump is a bump and part of the sport. If you have ever ridden a hill after a large group of very good GS skiiers do a warm-up run, you will notice one thing...no bumps, just the same lines in the snow that a snowboarder would leave...but twice as many.

The skiiers that make those bumps also complain about the snowboarders who leave the trenches and vise versa. The experienced rider is on the hill riding through them all.

So.. can a softboot ride moguls? yup. easily? eventually..have you spent much time in them to figure it out?

can a hardboot? yea, Im still learning, but each time through it gets better and better.

Is it tiring? youuuu betcha..but a few jogs around the block fixes that problem.

can a skiier ride in trenches? no reason why not. The snow is still there and functional if the rider can adapt.

[surlyone]

forward and backwards

what does a side by side slalom look like after they pull the gates and 100 skiers and riders have taken two runs a piece....don't even mention icing the course

Adaptability amen to that

[Ghostrider]

I think that these adverse conditions you are talking about only levels the playing field. This is because no matter what gear you are riding, it is out of its designed element. That means that the use of the equipment is coming soley down to the operator.

I get your "what-if" but since no ski or board is designed (or at least advertised) as being the best at riding a hill after a SL race, then it doesnt really matter what you pick. But even if the hill isnt as severe as that, then either way its a challenge of all your skills combined as the conditions deteriorate and the equipment leaves its optimal window of design.

[bobdea]

powder even a narrow race deck floats better than your average pair of skis

[Baka Dasai]

Originally posted by surlyone
I have seen a few booters in the bumps and I've seen em hit rails. They get my respect.

Me too.


and if you truly lay ruts in the snow where does the snow that was removed to make the rut go? it has to pile up right?

Here's my guess. When people skid turns, any small pile of snow will tend to slow the skid, and even cause the turn to finish. The snow dislodged by that skid gets heaped onto the small pile that caused the skid to slow or finish in the first place. As the pile of snow becomes bigger, the process accelerates until you end up with a mogul.

Sure, when you carve you also displace the snow that until then was happily sitting in the rut you just made. But unlike a skidded turn, a carved turn <b>slices through</b> small piles of snow, breaking them up rather than adding to them. Assuming only carvers, these small piles of snow never build up (unless people happen to be making a turn at almost the exact same place, as in a race course).

The reason why I attempted to restrict the argument to carving is that I think the distinction between carving and skidding is more important than the distinction between skiers and snowboarders, or the distinction between hardbooters and softbooters.

All three types can carve as well as skid - it's how you ride, not what you ride that I'm interested in.

[Vahur]

For me ski vs. snowboard is easy to choose: I don't have any balance or dexterity skills and skiing was very hard to learn: skis got crossed with each other, poles got constantly in a way, after fall equipment was all over slope and it was hard to get back to skis on slope etc. With snowboard it's much easier: you have one plank attached to feets and all you have to worry, is how to stand on it. So, I consider, that snowboarding is for handicapped persons and people with real skill go with skis.
Disclaimer: just kidding, of course

[Jack Michaud]

Originally posted by surlyone
A skier is in a better body position in relation to the fall line (hips shoulders facing down hill) allowing for more efficient movements.
Compared to a regular snowboarder, yes, compared to an alpine snowboarder, no, body position is nearly the same.


Snowboarders have to make larger movements to achieve the same performance a skier can make with more refined movements.
same answer as above.


A skier can make the same size and shape turn as a snowboarder with more options regarding speed control = a skier can go slower or faster than the snowboarder with the same turn shape and size.
Physically impossible, if you're talking about carved turns.


snowboarders have a harder time riding moguls than skiers.
no argument there. so what?


there are lines more favorable to skiers...and more of them to carve them out leaving boarders to adapt to bumps more favorable to skiers.<p><p>
what does everyone think? let the debate begin. <p><p>

I imagine some of this isn't true for you hard booters.....but what about us riders with low angles and soft boots?
Don't ride bumps if you don't like them. Or switch to hardboots and a narrower board. Both are better in the bumps than softboots/freeride boards.

[ncermak]

Try them all...you can take something from each one and apply it to the others...

[D-Sub]

I just realized I completely missed the subtopic, which was "in the bumps"

seems that a skier is more suited to this, but Im not sure why.

but then the original post went on to compare other aspects of skiing vs snowboarding

isnt this an old, tired argument? I still say ride what you have the most fun on

[Jon Dahl]

I've seen 2 that do really well in the moguls, one is a friend of mine, softbooter, who has a very smooth, well timed technique. The other is pepe lepew (Eric) who just flat rocks in the moguls on his Madd 170! It's not an equipment issue, it's an "nut behind the wheel" issue. Proper technique will always mean more tham "proper" equipment. Now, if I could just get that technique down! BTW, skier or snowboarder, we have the same ability to modify a turn when in it by changing angulation, edge pressure, etc. That argument holds no water at all.

[thomas_m]

Originally posted by Jon Dahl
I've seen 2 that do really well in the moguls, one is a friend of mine, softbooter, who has a very smooth, well timed technique. The other is pepe lepew (Eric) who just flat rocks in the moguls on his Madd 170! It's not an equipment issue, it's an "nut behind the wheel" issue. Proper technique will always mean more tham "proper" equipment. Now, if I could just get that technique down! BTW, skier or snowboarder, we have the same ability to modify a turn when in it by changing angulation, edge pressure, etc. That argument holds no water at all.

I'll second the opinion on Eric. Surprised the schitt out of me to see him fly down the modgul pitches at Crystal.

T.

[timinor]

The skier's position is NOT natural bio-mechanically. Knees are not designed to bend laterally. The freestyle snowboard position is a natural movement for the knees, hips and ankles. ie God meant us to snowboard.

There is a dirty secret about skiing, ski boots and skis. It is a sport determined by natural selection. ie All men are not created equally. One's skeletal structure determines the transference of pressure to the edge of the ski being efficient or (in most cases) very inefficient. Watch skiers. Most of them cannot carve a pure edge to save their life. It's impossible for them and they rotate and lean to compensate. This is not the case for snowboarders.

Therefore, skiing sucks and snowboarding rules.:D

[CarvCanada]

Surlyone, i suggest you watch a few videos...

Opus 3 at www.extremecarving.com

and C&C 2003 at www.carvingmachine.com

then maybe you will understand .. circles, and the term.. carve, by what we mean it to be

[bobdea]

Originally posted by timinor
The skier's position is NOT natural bio-mechanically. Knees are not designed to bend laterally. The freestyle snowboard position is a natural movement for the knees, hips and ankles. ie God meant us to snowboard.

There is a dirty secret about skiing, ski boots and skis. It is a sport determined by natural selection. ie All men are not created equally. One's skeletal structure determines the transference of pressure to the edge of the ski being efficient or (in most cases) very inefficiently. Watch skiers. Most of them cannot carve a pure edge to save their life and they rotate and lean to compensate. This is not the case for snowboarders.

Therefore, skiing sucks and snowboarding rules.:D
indeed it is so much easier to rip carves on a board and skiers that ride on the side have said the same to me

[Tommy D]

Originally posted by bobdea
indeed it is so much easier to rip carves on a board and skiers that ride on the side have said the same to me

I am proficient at both, but only after many years of being on the snow. Carving on a snowboard is definitely easier than skis, though the general dynamic is the same.

IMO, this has less to do with which way your body is facing (Proper form is important for both disciplines), but more to do with location of forces acting on the board or ski edge. IE-proper form in snowboarding allows for better, more efficient edge pressure (dare I say stronger edge hold?)

Crap, I don't think that makes much sense. If anyone knows what I'm trying to say, please elaborate! :) Or just read the tech articles on angulation and inclination (http://bomberonline.com//articles/inclination_angulation.cfm) and Pysics of a carved turn(http://bomberonline.com//articles/physics.cfm)!

[kiwanoron]

I skied for 12 years, instructed and raced - then I tried a soft boot snowboard setup - went back to skiing! One Year later I tried a hard boot setup, Guess What??? I sold ALL of my ski equipment and have been riding snowboards ever since!

I would rather Snowboard Any Day, Any Condition - Powder, ice, moguls, crud, groomers, backcountry, I have even ridden a burton ultra prime with hard boots on a heli boarding trip!

If you want to ski, Then go ski! If snowboarding is too HARD for you to learn, then stop your crying and keep skiing...I Do not care what you use to get down the mountain, I will be coming down the mountain on my snowboard!

[FTA2R]

"who cares! If skis work better for you, ride two of em! If a snowboard with hardboots gets your dick/nipples hard? more power! Short board, soft setup, duck stance? ROCK ON!"

I couldn't agree more. who cares! go pursue a girl or something...

---
Barry

[D-Sub]

y'all are doing exactly what I did, and ignoring the main premise of the question:

IN. THE. BUMPS.

thats all he was asking.

me personally, I hate em, and avoid em at all costs, so I dont care whats more efficient in em:)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by D-Sub
y'all are doing exactly what I did, and ignoring the main premise of the question:

IN. THE. BUMPS.

thats all he was asking.

That's not all he was asking, that was part of what he was asking. Me, I love bumps and beat most skiers down them, but the really good ones still leave me in the dust.

[timinor]

15 years ago snowboarding was treated like the evil stepchild of skiing. As long as we stayed in our place at the back of the bus, the masser skiers would let us on their mountain.

15 years later skiing is struggling to keep it's heritage alive. The skis have been completely redesigned copying boards. All the young skiers want to do is imitate the boarders in the pipe and park. The most popular events were popularized by snowboarding. Boardercross rules and ski racing can't get air time on TV. At this years Junior Nationals at Mt. Bachelor, the coaches biggest problem was keeping their ski racers out of the pipe and snowboard park to come and take their run. The older skiers are all on shaped skis imitating the snowboard freecarvers. In the powder? Forget about it. Moguls? I love em on my board.

Aesthetics? Snowboarders are graceful and natural. Skiers are...well...not.

The facts are clear. Snowboarding rules and skiing is now the lesser sport playing catch-up and imitate. Snowboarding led the sport of skiing out of it's PSIA dominated, you have to ski our way, learn the position, don't drop your hands, doledrums into the world of create your own fun and if I want to do it my way, I will and love every minute.

Bottom line? If the snowboard had been invented first, skiing would never have been invented. Why would someone want to invent an inferior way down the mountain.

[CarvCanada]

strictly from a carving perspective, the body position of a snowboarder (on hardboots at >40 degrees) allows for muh more dynamic carving

true, skis have MUCH more effective edge length (almost double in most cases! you have 2 skis!) but even if you have perfect technique and put exactly 50% of pressure on each ski to get max edge hold, a snowboard has the advantage. You have 2 points of pressure on the board, and you can slide the pressure forward and backwards along the effective edge. every good carver makes use of this and initiates the turn by driving their weight forward much more than a skier can, and slipping it back throughout the carve

also, a snowboarder has more angulation/inclination options, giving him/her the ability to make the same carving radius at high speeds and low speeds. skis have a much smaller margin for identical carving radiii

so.. SNOWBoard carving's more FUN!!

ironically (since most semi-educated skier/snwboarders think that skis are for carving fast, snowboards for laid back tricks) I really think the freeskying tricks look SO much smoother and better than their snowboard freestyle tricks...

[D-Sub]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
That's not all he was asking, that was part of what he was asking. Me, I love bumps and beat most skiers down them, but the really good ones still leave me in the dust.

"snowboarders vs skiers get it on in the bumps "

taken from the very top of the post.

Im not a big fan of "skiing sucks" type attitudes either. Is it just a backlash for when we were mistreated? Ive experienced that just as much as anyone, having been riding since 1990. Not as long as a few, but pretty damn long. I just dont see the point

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by timinor

Aesthetics? Snowboarders are graceful and natural. Skiers are...well...not.

Some snowboarders are graceful. Most are side-slipping, toilet-sitting blights on the scenery.

[knoch]

It's all the same, sticks with metal edges strapped to your feet on the snow. Who cares what the differances are really. We all live for the same passion. Why should anyone have to prove if one is better than the other? If everyone was trying to prove that what they did was better, there would be brawling on the hills. Now i'm not sayin i wouldn't get a kick out of that, i mean i have seen some crazy rednecks go at it on the slopes, but really, why does it matter? Why can't we all just get along?

[AlpentalRider]

Actually I think everyone should sit and argue their points in great detail. Maybe even have a summit for everyone to get together and debate the topic...

and while all of you are doing that, i'll be gettin' fresh pow with no lift lines :D

[D-Sub]

Ill be there with ya then

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by knoch
Why can't we all just get along?
Cuz that would be really boring, what on earth would we discuss while there's no snow?

[knoch]

Well here's one, whats the most interesting name you've ever seen for a run and at what resort. Or going in the opposite direction, how many illigal drugs do you think it's physically possable to get to show up in a single urine test, oh and i mean in the U.S. . I'd go ahead and start these up as new threads, but they're both kind of rediculous questions and i can see this debate is going nowhere.

[johann]

doesn't that depend on what drugs they are testing for?

If we don't know what tests are being done on the urine,, its like asking how many ice cubes of size x can you fit in a glass.

if ya don't know the size of the glass its a silly question.

[stoked]

I grew up with skiing but the last time I skied was before 1993 when I started snowboarding.

I happened to spend my first snowboarding day in hardboots on a freecarveboard so I never thought about going back to skiing :)

Also these days with the carving skis it's the same thing I mean even if you actually carve with them you don't have as many options for carving than with alpine snowboards.

Most of all leaning in low with upright body (straight knees) is completely impossible on skis but one of the greatest things about freecarving.

Plus I just like the snowboard riding feeling better than skiing so I even prefer freestyleboards over skis anytime.

Hey I guess I'd definitely be cooler if I was a fulltime softbooter hm ...

Maybe I should do that next season it sounds tempting so if anyone wants to take over my website please let me know ...

Ah f*c* it I remember reading on some ad that snowboarding is about fun.

And I'm stoked haha the usual spam but it's true at least in winter and I even believe those freestylers and skiiers sometimes when they say they are too.

http://stoked.at

[surlyone]

holy crap.....

as for circles I can carve circles in my soft boots...maybe not as tight as hard booters.

None of this stuff has anything to do with my original question. I was warned by a wise man to alter my post in a way to alleviate the skier snowboarder battle royal theme. I should have listened and acted promptly.

Through everything though....I have extracted some valuable information. Thanks to everyone who gave answers to my questions.

[Art]

I usually keep my nose out of these debates but this looks tempting for some reason. Probably because I was a crappy skier (ok, I'm still a crappy skier) but I can appreciate watching a talented skier any day be it on the bumps or the go fast racer types arcing consistant turns on any type of run. I will open myself up to the old "you couldn't ski so you learned how to snowboard" fodder now. I can't deny that, but it was a cute girl who introduced me to snowboarding on a suny spring day at Baker that got me back on the mountain. I saw some guys in Whistler on alpine boards and decided thats what I wanted to do and that led me to where I am now in the Alpine forum. All I want to do now is become a better boarder. To me that means challenging myself in all types of terrain and conditions. Some days are better than others, meaning sometimes I feel like I kick ass in the bumps, fog, crud, ice, and some days I cant buy a turn on the hero snow. I'm not really into the whole ski/snowboard debate. Lets face it: on your local hill, what percentage of skiers/boarders are really technically sound? The vast majority are recreational weekenders out to have a good time, whatever that means to them. The side by side comparison? I guess it depends on the talent on the hill on any given day. Personally, I would love to see it. Then I'll buy the winner a beer and he can talk all he wants and I'll go home and take care of the important things in life. By the way my son has been on skis since he was 1 1/2 years old (he's 3) and will continue to ski untill he decides otherwise. Same for his soon to arrive little bro.
And the best name I saw on a run is Art's Knob. Next?:D

[Sean]

Originally posted by Art
...The vast majority are recreational weekenders out to have a good time, whatever that means to them. The side by side comparison? I guess it depends on the talent on the hill on any given day. Personally, I would love to see it. Then I'll buy the winner a beer and he can talk all he wants and I'll go home and take care of the important things in life. By the way my son has been on skis since he was 1 1/2 years old (he's 3) and will continue to ski untill he decides otherwise. Same for his soon to arrive little bro.
And the best name I saw on a run is Art's Knob. Next?:D

Well said Art. One board or two, its all good.

-Sean "sleepless in Tacoma" Cassidy